Do you believe in Fate?

Possible Spoilers

When listening to the last official LOST podcast, I heard Damon and Carlton mentioned something interesting. Now, it may have been confirmed before, but this is what they said:

They are not on this island by random circumstance, they are not on this island because they are nice people. They are on this island because there are things in the pasts of all these characters that, you know.. are still being worked out…

This immediately got me thinking about the lists that the Others who attacked the tailies in previous LOST episodes where making, and what Goodwin told Ana-Lucia before she killed him – that the people who where kidnapped where “good people”.

Could this mean that Walt and Claire, who where both kidnapped are also “bad people”? And if so, what is it that makes these persons good or bad?

Was the plane crash and the survival of these persons fate, like Charlie spelled out on his knuckles in one of the first episodes?

Personally, I am now more convinced than ever that the plane crash and the survival of these exact characters was a controlled event and that each and every character is on the island for a specific reason or purpose.

What are your thoughts?

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21 Responses to Do you believe in Fate?

  1. Maurice Tift says:

    Hmmm.. “The Others” did have a list. If they’ve been checking it twice to see who’s been naughty or nice, then that might actually explain the polar bears!! 🙂

  2. jack says:

    You’ve got it backward. Goodwin told Ana-Lucia that the guy she was keeping in the pit (forgot his name, guy that Goodwin killed) was “not a good person.” The people the others kidnapped WERE considered good.

  3. Laura says:

    i completely agree with the theory that the plane crashed was planned, and that all of the survivors are there for a specific reason. And so far, I can see the theory of “good” people versus “bad” people…and the “good” being taken by the others. However, some of the characters that survived don’t seem to be very “bad”…like Claire, and Rose, for example…so it will be interesting to see how this plays out in future episodes. As far as the whole “good vs. bad” theory- as far as pitting the 815 survivors (“good”) against the others (“bad”)- I think it would make for an interesting twist if further down the line the roles are reversed and we learn that the others have good intentions and the “losties” become more “bad” in their actions of survival on the island. Perhaps “good” and “bad” are relative terms, and it’s all about what allowances and excuses and rationalizations you can use to justify your actions.

  4. Maria says:

    Laura – we have yet to see Rose’s flashback – we know absolutely nothing about this woman, so for now its IFFY – everyone has a past! About Claire well the only mistake (mistake being the strong word here) that Claire was to give her baby up for adoption for all the WRONG reasons, she was gonna do it because she felt LOST without her boyfriend, not a good enough reason, I love the fact that she realizes her mistake and is very HAPPY with Aaron (GOOD 4 CLAIRE), she doesn’t seem to be a bad person, but I’m sure we haven’t seen all of Claire’s Past!

  5. Cecilia says:

    I agree with Jack here… if you go back to where Ana Lucia has this issue, the implication is that the Others only kidnap the “good” ones, not the “bad” ones (whatever that means).

    I do definitely still believe in the setup idea… many things lead us to believe this was no ordinary plane “crash”.

    I also heard this podcast, and what I came away from it with was also the idea that the writers are not setting us up for some “good vs. bad” external confrontation; but rather that the conflict would be internal, because no one character is entirely good or bad. I think this has been in response to some fan emails complaining that some of their favorite characters (Sawyer & the frog) were being turned into “bad guys”… and D&C were responding that none of them are meant to be one or the other, as in your typical bad Hollywood flick.

  6. Jon says:

    LOST ROCKS I LOVE THIS SHOW IM ADDICTED!!

    I was wondering are the flashbacks linked to the person thinking about that moment in their past to the present or just put in their?

  7. Cecilia says:

    Oh and BTW, on the overall topic of FATE, and what it means to the show. I think it is definitely a big piece of the puzzle, how TPTB interprets “fate”.

    I’m reminded of the episode which tells the backstory of how Sun & Jin met… “Love is orange”, his friend tells him. A wink, perhaps at us… that things happen for a reason, but perhaps not in quite the same way WE think it will.

  8. Andreas says:

    As you all have pointed out, I was wrong about the Others taking “bad people”. This is the deal according to the official Lost site:

    “And for the first time we get the point of view of an Other – they take out the strongest first – the “good people” – and then the children, who he (Goodwin) claims are better off now.”

    I agree that each character has both a good and a bad side, but is this how the Others view it? They write down the names of “good people” on lists, but how do they decide which persons are “good” or “bad” and what does those words refer to in this context?

  9. Carly says:

    They took bad people.. They took the kids.. So? What’s up with that. And It’s quite ovbious how the Polarbear got there- If you were wondering.

  10. diddly-squat says:

    I really think that the concept of fate will play a much larger part in the future of the show. I find it hard to believe that anyone could organise a plan crash where specific people survive unless it were part of some larger (fate driven) end game.

    There have been numerous references to fate through out the show, Locke seems to be sure that they are there for a reason.

    There are a few things that I feel have been throw to us as well that have been kind of forgotten about (of late). Like what happened to the guy from the hatch, what happened to the Aussie chick (the one from the tail section) that was apparently taken by the Others, and how is it that Walt and the Others seems to be able to appear and disappear?

  11. Joey says:

    I think the strong were taken out because they posed the greatest threat of overtaking the others. They left the “bad” to whatever fate happens to them on the island. And I feel they took the kids to make sure they can procreate and survive long term. Plus they can program the child to their way of thinking since they can start with them so young…which builds up their numbers. I still haven’t figured out how the “monster” ties into it all yet? Any thoughts?

  12. Carly says:

    The monster.. It’s like souls.. and your past.. And you’re right.. What the heck does this floating smoke with faces inside have to do with anything? But what does this whole island have to do with anything? I think maybe the ‘Monter’ is there to remind them whats going on, and why they’re on the island.. Perhaps for his sins.

  13. Cecilia says:

    Andreas, I agree… the word “good” has many implications, but are very much dependant on how individuals interpret the context subjectively.

    On fate again…. In some ways, the show has left it opoen ended… is fate something we make through choices of free will?

    I think a very good episode that talks about this is “…And Found”, about Jin & Sun’s meeting story. Just remember… “Love is orange”… Jin turns around to look at the girl in orange, and unexpectedly bumps into Sun, who is not wearing orange. In some ways, I think this is a way of the team winking at us in the audience– as in, things may happen for a reason, but not necessarily in ways anyone could have guessed (poking some fun at internet theorists?)

  14. Laura says:

    not to bring up a cheesy quote…but the Sun and Jin “love is orange” story reminded me of this: “Life is what happens when you’re busy making other plans.”

  15. Emily says:

    The idea of the “good” and the “bad” people fits more if you interpret “good” as innocent. Most of the cast are not bad people but the all have their demons and have made their choices. If you are looking at the issue from a good vs. evil point of view you can see the good people as those who have not sinned. Also Claire was not kidnapped because she was a “good” person but because Aaron is.

  16. Josh says:

    I’m thinking that when everyone says they’re are on the island for a reason, they’re right. If you think about it, this show is full of well-concepted ideas, and if they weren’t on the island for a reason and just were there because of a freak plane crash, that wouldn’t make a very good plot line as we already know. Recently I read somewhere that in one of the upcoming episodes we’re going to discover that Sawyer and Locke have something that connects them. My thought to this day is this: we all know Sawyer has been looking for the man that he wrote the letter to, what if that man happened to be Locke’s father that we’ve seen in earlier episodes. A lot of it makes sense considering the kind of backstabber Locke’s father is and the fact that he told Locke that he’d tried to have a family a few times, but it wasn’t for him. Something like that. Is anyone else thinking on the same lines as me?

  17. Andreas says:

    Josh, please read the guidelines before commenting. It says “Please do not discuss spoilers related to future episodes” for a reason. People should be able to read the comments without accidentaly having to read spoilers.

    I will however leave this comment on the site since I belive we have already discussed the possibility of Locke’s father being the real Sawyer. What lead us to believe so was the fact that Locke found it funny that Sawyer/James had decided to call himself “Sawyer”, and of course the fact that both Locke’s father and the real Sawyer are con men, which I’m sure is what you where hinting at in your comment.

    It is also interesting to note that you had read that Sawyer and Locke have something that connects them, since pretty much every main character has a connection to the others (no not The Others..) in different ways.

    The really interesting thing then would be why and how all the characters are connected to each other or if it’s simply a six degrees of separation thing.

  18. Tess says:

    This same theory has been running around in my head for the entire second season and as of now I’ve been compiling bits of information that could substatiate it. Most of the characters on the show range in age between early 20’s to 40 years old (with the exception of Rose and Bernard) What if they have all lived their entire lives on the Island. What if they are all children of the original Dharma team? What if all their memomories, so many of which cross paths and have elements of each other included in them, are all creations of the Initiative. Their memories implanted, the plane crash faked and then they are thrown into the jungle environment so the Hanso Foundation can observe and experiment?

    I love the idea of karma being the experiment. Perhaps by some crazed, God-moding benefactor/scientist?
    Just my thoughts…though at this point, who knows?

  19. Brian says:

    Reading the posts in this thread has crystalized some of my own thoughts about the meaning of the pre-crash connections of our main characters… specifically, what if this interconnectedness is not part of any human “master plan,” but truly a manifestation of Fate?

    The Hanso Foundation and its DHARMA Initiative may (almost certainly DOES) have a long range plan or goal, and may have caused the crash of Flight 815 to further these plans/goals, but it’s the designs of Fate that have brought this specific group together. It’s this group, and thier specific connections/strengths/weakenesses/whatever that will lead to the downfall of the DHARMA Initiative (or maybe to its fullfillment). Fate is the wild card, the X-factor, that the humans of the D.I. can’t control.

    “Man proposes, God disposes.”

    On a related note, I just can’t believe any human agency could cause the kind of plane wreck we witnessed (and we did witness the plane breaking up) and be able to control who, if anyone, survived. If that’s what turns out to have happened, then we’ve moved into the realm of the supernatural. So far, nothing that’s happened can’t be explained in a rational, scientific way (although the black smoke of the presumed Cerberus system comes closer than anything).

  20. jim says:

    One of the best threads I’ve read anywhere. Why do I even look at those other boards?

    As I recall, while a few have seen the smoke monster, only two have come face to face, the two men of faith, Locke and Ecko. Locke described it as the most beautiful thing he has ever seen. Ecko saw images from his past.

    I’m not going to get too theological here, but it seems that these two things: having faith and belief in fate, are very similiar things. Both include a certain acceptance of the way things are, of powers bigger than ourselves, of things we are not meant to understand, they just are what they are.

  21. Interesting post and fantastic thoughts – thank you truly for your viewpoint…most certainly sparked some debate with my friends…

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