Flashes Before Your Eyes

Desmond from Lost

Tonight’s new Lost episode titled “Flashes Before Your Eyes” takes us back to our Lost friends on the beach. Will Kate and Sawyer make it back to the main island? What has been going on while we’ve observed the events on “Alcatraz” island? Can Desmond predict the future?

Tonight’s Desmond-centric episode might answer a few questions related to his past and his newfound precognitive abilities.

Desmond has become one of my favorite characters and I think he plays a vital part in the larger Lost story so I’m very excited about this episode.

Spoilers

This is the official description of “Flashes Before Your Eyes”:

A suspicious and determined Hurley enlists Charlie to help him wrangle the truth out of Desmond, who has been acting strangely ever since the implosion of the hatch, on “Lost,” WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 14 (10:00-11:00 p.m., ET), on ABC.

As always, feel free to discuss the episode in the comments!

Advertisements
This entry was posted in Lost. Bookmark the permalink.

90 Responses to Flashes Before Your Eyes

  1. calendar says:

    Phew….confused!

  2. desmondo says:

    that episode was awesome but it didn’t explain a thing. if anything it just made me more confused.

  3. Cog says:

    I agree. Did Desmond actually time-travel, or was that some kind of hallucination?

    My personal feeling is that, for some reason, he’s come “unstuck” in time, and he’s getting flashes from different points in his own life’s timeline.

    But I have no idea why there’s a woman in past Britain who would actually know what’s going on, unless she’s some kind of a representative of some higher power, like an angel or an apparition or something.

    Weird, weird, weird. I wasn’t that fond of the episode but it definitely made me curious about what they’re building to.

  4. JoshSpazJosh says:

    Locke was right, destiny exists!

    Dude finally got a break.

  5. Robbi Eklow says:

    Read “The TIme Traveler’s Wife” by Audrey Niffenegger. Desmond’s story is very similiar.

    Excellent episode!

  6. Danielle says:

    Robbi Eklow- I loved “The Time Traveler’s Wife” can’t wait to see the episode, esp. now!

  7. calendar says:

    So I think one of two things may have happened (probably more possibilites if I think harder!) …
    1) When chalrie called desmond a coward, des went time travelling back into the past when he was still with penny….where he knew all about the island etc but met a lady who also knew everything……ok, doen’t make too much sense.
    2) When Charie called desmond a coward, we were shown desmonds flashback – no time travel – just us seeing desmond in the past before we saw him on the island (like all the other flashbacks). The flashback showed us that he hit his head after falling from a ladder and developed psychic powers which came to him like really strong deja vu’s. They showed flashes of what would happen in his future ie the boat race, the island etc etc…..then there’s the lady in the jewellers who knew everything…..

    By the way – are we allowed to talk about the preview of next weeks show, shown at the end of this weeks????? Bet this is classed as spoilers yes?

  8. NJ Steve says:

    The episode was definitely confusing but I think we can extrapolate a couple of things from it. Desmond may be experiencing flashes back and forward from this current time period on the island. This must be the first time that he has realized this ability, as it has never been documented that he could or would change history in previous episodes.

    I understood from the episode that Desmond traveled back to that exact moment to understand where his destiny was sealed.

    Its important that he went back to a point in time where he could have been happy for the rest of his life. He could review past mistakes with Penny and change them before it’s too late. Ultimately, he realizes it is his destiny to relive it all again. I’m unsure if that means that he had to live it all (8 years)again. If that were the case, it would definitely make sense why he reacted so violently with Charly. Imagine him getting on that boat again knowing that he had to crash, be rescued and then stuck on the island again.

    The jeweler is undoubtedly another time traveler that is able to go forward and back. I’m assuming that she a little more control over her abilities, if only because of her age. I have no doubt that we will see her again and find that she has some relationship to “others” on the island.

    This story reminds me more of Slaughterhouse Five than anything else. You should read this to understand what I mean.

    I like the overall concept of this episiode, if not the execution of it. It’s really making me think about how this fits into the entire puzzle. And It reinforces the greatness of the line “only a fool is limited by time and space” really very special.

  9. Jeff says:

    destiny has an interesting way of revealing itself when there are sneaky, powerful people who manipulate lives towards a certain direction. Did the universe guide the bus to hit Juliette’s ex-husband, or did Jacob or Ben have something to do with that?

  10. Captain Schmideo says:

    I loved Charlie playing “Wonderwall” by Oasis. Of course, the obvious gag is there about comparisons between “Driveshaft” and Oasis. But did you catch the neat little coincidence, where Charlie is singing the line, “but maybe you’re gonna be the one that saves me…” just as Desmond arrives at that street corner? And of course, this is what Desmond is attempting to do, as is revealed at the end of the episode!

    But, dammit, they better not kill Charlie off, or I will swear off this show, but good!

  11. Alfes says:

    Okay – first of all, the jeweler has been in Lost previously. I have no idea where or when, but I immediately knew when I saw her. If anyone remembers, please post where she came from.

    Secondly, I would have to disagree that Desmond did not actually time travel. I believe that he did time travel – as we saw, things were slightly altered, ie: he didn’t join the Royal Scots Army, which we know he did previously because he spoke with Inman (the guy in the hatch who he accidentally killed). Also, the jeweler is there, who obviously is not just a typical salesperson.

    I have an idea – it seems like perhaps the hatch, or maybe more appropriately, what is released by pressing the button, is some sort of harnessed energy that allows for time travel. Going back to the basis of the numbers/experiments, we know that those doing the experiments (the “others”) are supposedly trying to save the world by changing variables related to each individual number (If you do not know what I am talking about, you have some homework to do – look for the supplemental video clip from the Dharma Initiative starring Alvar Hanso). Perhaps the island is some sort of isolated, protected environment, in which this research may go on, despite what may be happening in the world around it. When the research is complete, the researchers may use the time travel device to return to a safe time (a time before our lost cast crashed) and fix anything for which they have found remedies.

    I don’t know if any of you noticed, but when Jack asked Ben about why he didn’t leave the island for his back surgery, knowing that they had contact with the outside world – Tom breaks in and says something about “until the sky turned purple”, leading us to believe that somehow, the implosion of the hatch has not only changed Desmond, but has also altered the island’s relationship with the world around it, whether that be time/communication/etc. Perhaps the research is now intrinsically useless, as even if a remedy were found, there is no longer transportation to a time before things had gone awry.

  12. bill says:

    This episode reminded me of Final Destination, by how you can not escape death and that if you cheat it once it will come back for you no matter what. And we see this proven at the end with charlie being told he will die.

    Great episode bit confusing.

  13. Austin says:

    WICKED!!!!!

    alrighty, i think i got it. time travel is impossible because it’s just not feasible. BUT what the island or what the foundation has put on the island allows to tap into time (i don’t think space time continuum but just time) in the way it can manipulate it. The blow off is like how computers storm RAM, there is a memory of what has happened, but only so much can be contained. What Des experienced was viewing this RAM as it was being deleted, or in this case being sneezed out. So for visual evidence right before Des’s flashback to his appartment, we see his life flash before his eyes. i bet if that was to be reviewed, we would see more than just the life he led, but also the life he will lead. as for his experience asking the father for the girls’ hand in mariage, i am guessing that was a concussion from the massive flow of information that he couldn’t deal with. what do you all think?

    oh yea, once again WICKED EPISODE!!!

  14. Austin says:

    oo, just real quick, when the computer/island views time, it is all (or at least more that the exact now that we experience) of time that is analyzed. all of time is experienced at the same moment. kinda confusing at first glance i guess but it makes sense after thinking about it for a couple moments.

  15. desmondo says:

    Desmond didn’t time travel. If he did he would have had to relive everything leading up to the present which is obviously not the case. While the ideas of futility and destiny were written in, they do not explain the ignorance Desmond had displayed leading up to this episode.

    Dude hit his head and had a dream with various symbols from the island in it (microwave beeps, painting in the office, charlie, etc.). As far as his ability to see the future goes, I don’t see any rational explanation and see this as some typical Lost bullshit that will disappear from the plot once new and more interesting bullshit is introduced.

  16. FMGreenSteve says:

    I think killing Charlie off makes sense. His character really isn’t serving much purpose these days. He kicked heroin. Claire is getting by without him. Eko is dead so Charlie no longer has a spiritual guide. He already killed Ethan, so that revenge is done. Really, he just has no major storyline anymore.

    The way I saw this was that when Desmond turned the key, he actually was warped back in time. If he had followed the “rules” as told to him by the jeweler, he could have stayed in “the past” and lived his life. But because he changed the past by protecting the bartender, he was instantly warped back to the “present” time, doomed to continue his stay on the island. My question is, by changing the past, did he really ruin it for the rest of the world?

    There is no doubt that his precognitive abilities were not present until he turned that key.
    By changing the past, did he actually change all of history from that point up until the present time, living through the entire experience? He can obviously see quite far enough into the “future,” so should we believe that he has already spent all of this time on the island before? If so, then he will be able to predict most major events before they happen. We know his ability isn’t limited to protecting Charlie, as he predicted Locke’s speech as well.

    I’m just rambling now. Anyway, I loved the episode. It was a great curve ball. Next week should be excellent, finally some answers!

  17. lexy says:

    YESS the jeweler was on LOST before but I just can’t remember specifically when. anyone remember?

  18. Anon says:

    This episode is an extension of the midseason “Day Break”. But, instead of Hopper repeating the same day over and over again, Des is repeating the same 3 years over and over again. He’s repeated this cycle at least 3 times: (1) he saw Charlie die from the lightning bolt; (2) he saved Charlie from the lightning bolt, but them saw him drown; and (3) he saved Charlie from both lightning and drowning, but then saw him die from _______?

  19. Anon says:

    The actress who played the jeweler is Fionnula Flanagan; according to imdb.com, this was her first Lost episode. Interestingly, imdb says she starred in a 2001 movie titled “The Others”.

  20. Cherise says:

    Did anyone notice that the song that was playing in the bar the second time on the Juke box was the same song that was playing on the record player when we first met Desmond in the hatch?

  21. Toni says:

    ok, so did anyone else love the ‘wizard of oz’ imagery with the red shoes?

    also, does anyone else think that the jewelry shop woman sounded an awful lot like the ‘island force/monster’ that has appeared in so many people’s dreams and visions (the same one that convinced locke to doggedly go in the hatch… and the same one that appeared to locke and eko as yemi)? “the most important thing you’ll ever do is press that button”

    which then opens the can of worms: did desmond gain the ability to view his past and future simply because the explosion blasted an electomagnetic/time anomoly? or did he gain that ability because the explosion briefly allowed the ‘island power’/’security smoke monster’ to controll his mind and show him these visions for some unknown and possibly ominous purpose…

  22. Lesley says:

    That episode was killer! I like Robbi’s idea that Desmond could be in a “Time Traveler’s Wife” situation (great book btw) and I like Austin’s RAM idea. Of course the PTB could just be messing with us – Des had a concussion and percieved it as going back in time. What about the theory that time is happening one all at once? I forget what that is called but the idea is that time is not linear. What if Desmond’s exposure to the electromagnetic properties allow him random glimpses of the entire spectrum of all tiers of his life. That could also play in to another story line. Who on the island is 27 years old and unable to get pregnant? (Kate, right?) If time is not linear, Mittleos could be aware of Kate’s issue at the same time they are coercing Juliet to join them. Talk about a different dimension! And was that bottle of whiskey on the plane or was it from the “past”? Remember Eko walking with his brother as a kid? Was it really the past or his blip into another time tier? Does the smoke monster break through that time continuum? Was Walt able to break through naturally? Can’t wait to go back and look for everything I missed!

  23. Andreas says:

    Great episode, I really enjoyed it. Obviously we have a lot to think about. I’m going to do some research and post my thoughts and theories.

  24. Pam says:

    I think the jeweller represents fataliam: 1.the acceptance of all things and events as inevitable; submission to fate, 2.Philosophy. the doctrine that all events are subject to fate or inevitable predetermination (Dictionary.com). She instills fatalism in Des, and wheter or not he truly time traveled, he didn’t change his past completely and still ended up on the island. In the end, no matter what Des does Charlie will die, and no matter what he thought he could do Des ended up back on the island. Remember on the second night in the bar (I think it was the British team), the game is won the way he thought, the song is playing, and Des says “I can change it!” Well he couldn’t and that could have proved to him that what the jeweller said was right and he now is a fatalist (but, maybe not completely, because a fatalist wouldn’t try to save Charlie the first time).
    Maybe the “flashback/time travel” segment was really a metaphysical-type dream. Metaphysical according to Dictionary.com:2.Philosophy.
    a.concerned with abstract thought or subjects, as existence, causality, or truth.
    b.concerned with first principles and ultimate grounds, as being, time, or substance.
    3.highly abstract, subtle, or abstruse. So what we saw was a dream of Des’s, therefore it wasn’t all real; therefore what the jeweller said about him pushing the button and saving the world doesn’t necessarily have to be true. Des himself told the jeweller she was just his conscience, and was trying to convine himself that his life on the island was not all for nothing. Also the man in the red shoes (“Ding! Dong! The witch is dead!”) could have been just an illustration for Des about Charlie, but none of the fataliam really stuck in Des’s head until Charile pushed Des to tell him what happened.
    I want to believe this because I don’t think pushing the button was saving the world, and I don’t think time travel of any magnitude is conceiveable.

  25. MasterPo says:

    I think the whole saving-Charlie and the Universe course correction concept is a direct take from the “Final Destination” movie series.

    As for his time travel, I think it was an hallucination. But it looks like next week Jack meets the woman who Desmond met in his trip (now much older of course). That’s a tough one to explain w/o time travel. Everything else can be explained by a bump on the head.

  26. Well coincidence or not, look back to ep 1 of season 2! Des tells jack at the training ground where they were running that ”what if he cud save sarah”! Jack sed this was an immpossible job, but Des predicted it! and since we havent sin wat he was duin in the space of season 2 ep 3 to finale he cud have seen the future then! but it just may av bin a coincidence!

  27. Andreas says:

    I’m with you Lost King. I think Desmond is experiencing everything over again, this is not his first time on the island.

  28. Fluca says:

    Ok, first post here. XD

    Two things: Have you guys noticed which book Hurley had in his hands while they wera at Sawyer’s tent? It is called “Laughter in the Dark”, by Vladimir Nabokov, and it’s a book about a man called Albinus, who had a dream about meeting a young woman sprawled with abandon in a hot, deserted beach, and who has his life ending in disaster. Ring any bells? XD
    Second: While Des was at his girlfriend’s father office, one of the paintings on the wall has the word “NAMASTE” written backwards.

    Just thought these two facts were worth mentioning.
    Cheers and please, keep on posting (I love your thoughts)

  29. Fluca says:

    OH, also, the same painting depicts a polar bear and a buda. 😉

  30. zeeter says:

    Unfortunately I cleaned up my tivos including the ones from last fall’s mini-season. Who was the lady who went to Juliet’s house right after she burned the biscuits?

    A couple of things. Obviously the mean old jewelry lady is explaining the time-space continueum to Desmond. If he doesn’t leave Penny then they’ll all die. Either she is from the island and “all” means everyone on the two islands, or she’s from the real world, as part of the Hanso Foundation and “all” means the rest of the world.

  31. Fluca says:

    I’m sorry to keep posting various posts one on top of another (wish there were some post editing tool), but I promise this is the last time: When Des meets the old lady in the jewelry store shes says to him: “never done this before, have you?” (we, then, assumed she was talking about the act of buying an engagement ring). Then, to his reply, she says: “I coudl always tell the first timers”.
    It seems pretty obvious to me that she was talking about his time travel, which, if true, signifies that:

    -She has met many time-travelers before;

    -This was in fact the very first time travel episode Des had (meaning: not the second or third time he completely relived his life);

    -And, if the above is true, that probably the incidents with the hatch are causing time travels.

    It all fits, because there have been at least two incidents before (if I recall correctly), and there might be (I would say, there will probably be) more in the future.

    Ok, so far, there were no need to consider her a time-traveler herself. She could just be aware of them somehow and interacted with a few in the past.

    But, since she starts to berate Des about what he will do, it means she also is a time-traveler, having experienced this series of events more than once.

    But how can she know about what Des did on the island? Only two explanations seem to fit: either she will end up in the island some time in the future, and then participate in a time traveling event which lands her (ultimatly) at the jewelry shop; or, she, knows or is a part of the Hanso Foundation, through which she acquired knowledge (in the future) of Des’ actions.

    That’s about it for now. I hope I made some kind of sense 🙂

    Cheers

  32. whatif says:

    I think that Lost is finally coming in full circle and getting more intriguing than ever. Can’t wait to find out what 3 questions the writers picked to answer in next week’s ep.

    People have great comments here and though last night’s ep has not yet sunk in with me yet, the first thing I thought of when I heard the jeweler’s conversation with Desmond was that may be she used to be on the island as a young woman but once she was sent back to the world as we know it, she aged dramatically. The scene in last week’s ep where Juliet is shown the x-rays of a 26 yr old woman who who had the womb of a 70something yr old made me think that way. Obviously there are holes in this theory but just thought I’d lend my 2 cents to the discussion. This may not make any sense at all though as I mentioned before, the ep hasn’t sunk in yet.

  33. Andreas says:

    You made perfect since to me Fluca. Some quite interesting observations.

    Considering that the phrase “Only fools are enslaved by time and space” was heard in the brainwashing video, my guess would be that The Others can somehow travel in time and the lady Desmond met is probably an Other.

  34. puff6962 says:

    this episode was necessary to explain why the artic observation post detects the hatch implosion and contacts desmond’s love to say “we’ve found him.” desmond asks a friend about time travel and it will be this friend who speaks with desmond’s love to explain their last conversation as well as desmond’s intent to marry her.

    the idea of time travel is not realistic. however, read up on the ideas of the multiple universe put forth by hugh everett in the 1950’s.

  35. theOtherdave says:

    How many times has Lost done the “pull away from the eyeball” opening a scene?
    So when Desmond awoke from his ‘McCutchen’ stupor the first thing I thought was that he dreamed it all. Not bad – ok. But I do not think Desmond is timetraveling in any way except in his mind.
    Did I get any answers from last nights episode? No, not really. Just more questions. Well let me take that back, at least we know that Charlie’s gonna die. And if Desmond can see the future and recall the past (vividly) then will he “share” his wealth of information with anyone? Or use it for himself only?

  36. AnotherOther says:

    That was such a good and crazy episode. Was the jewelry shop lady the same girl that was talking to Jack in the preview for next weeks? She looked the same, but younger on the Island.

  37. Christina says:

    I agree with you, Andreas! I think the lady in the store is definitely an Other. So many people are saying they’ve seen her before (on the dock maybe before Walt and Michael were set free?). Could she have been “sent back” to encourage Desmond to continue his path towards years of button-pushing? Is she telling the truth that he can’t change what’s been predetermined? Is she planting doubt in his mind- had he asked Penny to marry him, would everything have been just fine, and everyone would not die because of his actions? Recurring issues with free will and destiny! Love it!

  38. Tom says:

    Ok, this may have been covered here previously, but Des’ middle name is David, last name Hume. (if this is redundant I apologize in advance)
    (from http://www.philosophypages.com/ph/hume.htm)
    “According to Hume, little human knowledge can be derived from the deductively certain relations of ideas. Since the causal interactions of physical objects are known to us only as inherently uncertain matters of fact, Hume argued, our belief that they exhibit any necessary connection (however explicable) can never be rationally justified, but must be acknowledged to rest only upon our acquired habits. In similar fashion, Hume argued that we cannot justify our natural beliefs in the reality of the self or the existence of an external world. From all of this, he concluded that a severe skepticism is the only defensible view of the world.”

    I think his confusion in the episode must be taken to reflect this kind of uncertainty about what’s real/not real. Otherwise why does the cricket bat shift victims? This is a change in the “history” that he claims to have seen.
    Loved the comments on Oasis, btw. Spot on.

  39. shauna says:

    I have to think that this was more of a “black smoke” situation as opposed to time travel. I know time is supposed to be a big theme on the show but so is guilt and dealing with problems and situations from your past, which I think is what is happening with Desmond. I think the jeweller was referring to the people on the island dying and not everyone in the whole world. She was more like a guide than anything (reminded me of the woman in The Matrix who helped Neo understand). I don’t quite get how this works with saving Charlie but maybe it’s some sort of redemption effort.

    I love the fact that the jeweler was from the movie “The Others”. I wonder if that was intentional or just coincidental. She was great in that and also acted as a aort of guide for the characters to accept their fates.

  40. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”39686″]That was such a good and crazy episode. Was the jewelry shop lady the same girl that was talking to Jack in the preview for next weeks? She looked the same, but younger on the Island.[/quote]

    Remember that our current policy is that the previews are spoilers, so try not to discuss them on the site.

  41. sukotto says:

    the jewelry lady certainly is interesting. I think in this thread someone said she could possibly be another manifisation of the island/monster just like yemi or jacks dad etc.

    If indeed this monster is a collective consiciousness that has attained some sort of sentience then its first instinct would be survival. Maybe its telling desmond that he cannot alter his fate to ensure its own life because changing his fate is the last thing the island wants.

    the island would survive indefinitly if desmond’s cycle continued. the island could be using desmond (and the losties) to defend itself from the universe’s planned fate for itself. As the old lady said the universe has a way of course correcting the death of individuals. This could include the sentient being that is the island.

    the universe placed the losties on the island because it knew they would fight their destinies thus damaging the island whereas the island is trying to consign the losties to their fate in an attempt to secure its life.

    the islands only recourse is to use the losties to continue the cycle to stop the universe from effectivly killing it. So the island would need desmond to accept his supposed determined fate in order to help achive this.

    i know the universe versus the island is out there but i think giving the island motive would be interesting.

  42. Hammer says:

    I think that if Dez has been on the island multiple times, this is only the 2nd that he know of…when he did the golf club lightening trick…he said it was an experiment to test something. If he knew at that time he was on another “tour” he wouldn’t be experimenting?

  43. MKS says:

    I’m a first timer here, so please bear with me. A few questions.
    1. If Des had somehow done this before, then he would have known that the old guy (sorry, forgot his name) was lying about needing a radiation suit to go outside and would not have spend years staying inside the hatch, right?
    2. Is it possible that he did not actually travel in time, but rather recalled/ remembered the past, seeing that there beeen hints and clues all along that he should have paid attention to? (The old lady was just his sub/ dream conscience telling him “pay attention to clues”). It could be a way for the Losties to start talking and figuring out that they are all connected, and/or have met before.
    3. While this may not seem to explain how he “knows” the future, there could have been hints (that we missed, or have not seen yet) that “predict” things like Charlie’s death, Locke’s speech, etc.

  44. FMGreenSteve says:

    That episode was so freaking good. I can’t stop thinking about it, but most of the comments here are thinking far more intelligetnt thoughts than I am!

    Last night was also a departure from the usual roadmap for an episode of Lost. They flashed us back only once, and we stayed in the flashback for nearly the entire episode, and then they flashed us back to the present time at the end.
    I can’t recall any previous episode that was setup this way. Every episode that I can remember has followed the same roadmap of: Start in “Time B”, flashback to “Time A,” go forward to B, back to A, forward to B, back to A…etc…

  45. Fluca says:

    MKS, I agree with you on your first point.
    But, there are some considerations to be made (they are a little ‘backtothefutury’, but, please, bear with me):

    Your statement is only valid if what we saw last episode was the second time Des time travelled (if he is indeed in a loop).

    This is so because, up until the hatch’s implosion, there was a single timeline (let’s call it “A”). So, in timeline “A”, Des was oblivious about what was going to happen, and, therefore, did not know about the tear in the suit.

    When the hatch imploded, Des was transported back in time, and somehow (and this is where a HUGE leap of faith is required) took the place of his old self (the Des in timeline “A”).

    This is when timeline “B” was created. In this timeline Des knows about future events, but is not only confused about them, but, either is convinced he must follow the same path as before (timeline “A”), witch, BTW, does not seem to be the case since he ended up in the receiving end of the bat; or, is helpless to change the outcome (being stranded in the island, for example), since destiny auto-corrects itself (no matter what he tries to do).

    So, if we were to be shown events of Timeline “B”, Des would be aware of the tear in the suit, but still going through the motions, since nothing he did changed the expected outcome.

    Let me try to make things a bit clearer. Up until the hatch implosion, we were watching Lost in timeline “A”. From now on, since Des travelled back in time and returned, timeline “A” no longer exists (only in our and Des’ memory). Thus, we have been watching Lost in timeline “B” since the episode when the hatch exploded.

    Cheers.

  46. spinpapi says:

    [quote comment=”39708″]That episode was so freaking good. I can’t stop thinking about it, but most of the comments here are thinking far more intelligetnt thoughts than I am!

    Last night was also a departure from the usual roadmap for an episode of Lost. They flashed us back only once, and we stayed in the flashback for nearly the entire episode, and then they flashed us back to the present time at the end.
    I can’t recall any previous episode that was setup this way. Every episode that I can remember has followed the same roadmap of: Start in “Time B”, flashback to “Time A,” go forward to B, back to A, forward to B, back to A…etc…[/quote]

    My thoughts exactly. And not only that — IT WASN’T A FLASHBACK AT ALL!!! It was either time travel or a dream/hallucination, unless it really happened that way the first time, which is impossible since he ‘changed the past’ (not going into the armed services, blocking the attack in the bar). Great comments. Missed the “gonna be the one that saves me” line. Only fools are enslaved by time and space. Desmond is no fool. Awesome!

    I do think LOST is getting a bit into wonky territory with time travel, but it may help explain some things, and as a sci-fi head, I love it — as long as they don’t go all ‘metaphysical’ on us. So far all of the crazy, unscientific stuff that’s happened has been intriguing to me only because any of it could have a rational explanation (or so the producers said), but if they go with both time travel AND paranormal stuff, they’ll have gone off the deep end.

    The actress who played the guide woman has been on a few different Star Trek shows before as well as The Others (very funny, casting directors). Maybe some people recognize her from there? If she HAS been on LOST before, it might warrant a blog entry and discussion of its own.

    The three questions that will be answered last week were hinted at in the previews. Since we don’t discuss spoilers here, anyone who wants to know should take a look at those. I’m always glad that I’m too absorbed in thoughts of the current episode for the upcoming scenes to ever imprint fully in my memory!

    =]

  47. Lost Damery says:

    Wow Finally the writing and the mystery are back! This is cliff hanging from the top of the world.
    Ok, my 2 cents.
    z) Des did not travel time but was in an unconscious state where I believe the smoke monster can access. Trying to influence their actions. He has done it with Ecko and Locke and all it deals with. I think it was the monster who did the lightning and threw Claire in the ocean. The monster was created by Dharma but now like in terminator the machine is on the hunt to kill man not save him. But the survivors are able to stop the machine.
    y) All the talk of the Lady is mute she is a plant like Echos brother from the smoke monster as his interface with their memories/dreams etc.
    x) I like that they are still using the numbers and the last episode really shows they are playing between coincidence and free will. I think there is a mix of external control and the guiding of the losties the others are out of the loop on the alcatraz. The numbers are an accident and on purpose and they will undo the island…smoke monster.
    $) This has become a mix of all the great ones Matrix, terminator, groundhog day and home alone.

  48. Lost Damery says:

    [quote comment=”39697″]
    3. While this may not seem to explain how he “knows” the future, there could have been hints (that we missed, or have not seen yet) that “predict” things like Charlie’s death, Locke’s speech, etc.[/quote]
    In my 2 cents it is the smoke monster that controls things. He hanged Charlie (not the other) and has influenced him, he has been in lockes mind for a while now as well as Claires…perhaps the shots area also a chemical way of allowing the smoke monster access to the sub-conscious a sort of truth serum?

  49. Wild Bill says:

    What happened to this show? A dream/ hallucination episode? I can write better episodes with alphabet soup. You could edit this episode to five minutes and still get the point across. I find that a lot lately with the show. I use to love this show. Now I understand why they surrendered the time slot to Idol. And that show really stinks.

  50. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”39721″]What happened to this show? A dream/ hallucination episode? I can write better episodes with alphabet soup. You could edit this episode to five minutes and still get the point across. I find that a lot lately with the show. I use to love this show. Now I understand why they surrendered the time slot to Idol. And that show really stinks.[/quote]

    …not trying to start an argument here… but why are you still watching if you don’t like it?

  51. Pam says:

    [quote comment=”39712″]
    I do think LOST is getting a bit into wonky territory with time travel, but it may help explain some things, and as a sci-fi head, I love it — as long as they don’t go all ‘metaphysical’ on us. So far all of the crazy, unscientific stuff that’s happened has been intriguing to me only because any of it could have a rational explanation (or so the producers said), but if they go with both time travel AND paranormal stuff, they’ll have gone off the deep end.[/quote]
    I think the opposite, if the writers allow time travel and other completely scientific things to work on the island the show will be to hard to understand conceptually. And I don’t think science (even fictional science) can explain all of the mysteries of the show. I think they need to allow some (maybe) faith based ideas and non-sci fi things to fit in the grand scheme of the plot to appeal to more amounts of people.

  52. Ilovelost says:

    I really do not want Charlie to die. I don’t think he will die, because the producers usually don’t tell you when someone is going to die. They surprised us with the news, but it will be prevented. Hopefully.

  53. TG says:

    I actually think it’s possible that the smoke monster and time travel are closely connected or are even the same phenomenon.

    Here’s what we (sorta) know about the smoke monster: It can take the human form of someone important from your life outside of the island, it reflects images from throughout your life, and it has something to do with punishment and atonement. All of these things fit with last night’s theme of missed opportunities, free will, and course correction.

    Now, when Eko looked into the monster, he only saw images from his past–but his life was almost over. Maybe the smoke monster can actually reveal flashes from any point in time, but because Eko had no future, he saw only the past. Locke, on the other hand, sees something “beautiful” when he looks at it. Locke, who is obsessed with destiny and a better life for himself, might be seeing the future, but interprets it philosophically rather than literally. If Desmond has used the fail safe key to unleash this entity in a new way, he could be “traveling” briefly through time to see flashes of the future–but he interprets them literally and is obsessed with changing the outcomes.

    I realize all of this is a stretch, but there was something about the woman in the jewelry store that reminded me of fake-smoke-monster Yemi. When she said, “No, you don’t buy the ring,” I was reminded of the moment when Eko realized that he wasn’t really talking to his brother. At that point, even though Desmond was talking to a woman he recognized from his past, he wasn’t REALLY just talking to the jewelry store clerk anymore.

    I also thought that Eko’s dying words (“You’re next”) and Desmond’s premonitions about Charlie’s death had a similar fatalistic ring to them.

    I loved this episode, and there are some great theories posted here. Thanks!

  54. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”39741″]I really do not want Charlie to die. I don’t think he will die, because the producers usually don’t tell you when someone is going to die. They surprised us with the news, but it will be prevented. Hopefully.[/quote]

    Something I just thought about is that maybe Charlie was meant to die when Ethan hung him in the tree, but Jack changed Charlie’s destiny by saving his life. Ever since, “the universe” has tried to kill Charlie to make things “right”. What do you think?

  55. sukotto says:

    this final destination thing with the universe wanting to kill them no matter is really interesting. its good to see the show getting back (overtly at least) to one of the main themes, free will vs determinism.

    its interesting to see what side the island/monster is on. it would seem it was determinism since the jewerly lady is trying to make desmond accept the finality of his fate. but why would the island bring him there if it knew he had a chance (however slight) to express any free will?

    is the island flipping a coin and waiting to see what side it lands on?

  56. Pam says:

    [quote comment=”39758″]this final destination thing with the universe wanting to kill them no matter is really interesting. its good to see the show getting back (overtly at least) to one of the main themes, free will vs determinism.

    its interesting to see what side the island/monster is on. it would seem it was determinism since the jewerly lady is trying to make desmond accept the finality of his fate. but why would the island bring him there if it knew he had a chance (however slight) to express any free will?

    is the island flipping a coin and waiting to see what side it lands on?[/quote]

    Interesting, if the smoke monster/island could take a side, I don’t think it would be free will, because Mr. Eko chose not to apologize and he died. Maybe the island is relying on fatalism and determinism to keep on exisiting…that doesn’t make much sense but I can’t get it out of my head any better.

  57. jack johnson says:

    I’ve had this theory for a short while and this episode helped me confirm some points of it:

    It seems that everyone on the island has made mistakes in their previous lives so I think that they had been brought to the island to face and relive their mistakes to be given a chance to change the course of their fate. An example of this is that if we consider Michael’s mistake was giving up Walt, then he was allowed to leave the island after he fully realized that he would kill to have him back. On the contrary, Eko firmly denied that he had ever made a mistake and for this the island decided he had no chance to redeem himself and killed him.

  58. jack johnson says:

    As far as my ideas on telling the future this is what I have come to think:

    The Others are a group who for one way or another have the ability (like Desmond) to see clips of their past life and future. Walts mental abilities are a perfect example of why he was taken, and Roussau (the french lady) claims her people developed a sickness– probably the ability to see the future would be interpreted as mental sickness by those who do not understand.

    As we have seen in countless movies and literature in which time travel is prominent, the ability to see the future is scary, and many do not want that responsibility. That is why Karl and Alex are so bent on escaping, they do not want the knowledge to see and the responsibility to change their future. Ignorance is bliss. This is why Karl was brainwashed with music telling him that only fools are enslaved by time and space– the fools ignorant of the future are enslaved by their fate and inability to change it. They flashed images of ‘everything changes’–this is contrary to the speech given to Desmond because they do not want Desmond to take control of his abilities to change time and space.

    Obviously the Others don’t have complete control over their changing of the the universe or else they would have even more control over the Losties. Additionally they are partially subjugated to fate and to “him”/ Jacob. They were told by Jacob (and therefore by fate) who to put on the list. Like Desmond, they have the power to change small, seemingly insignificant parts of the universe, but they are working against fate which decides major things and ‘course-corrects’ itself.

  59. jack johnson says:

    When it comes to explaining Mrs. Hawkings (the jeweler) I am reminded by other people who have been part of people’s flashbacks that brought them onto the Island.

    this ‘list’ would include:

    the psychic– both claire and eko
    the police officer– kate
    jack’s dad– jack (and ana lucia)
    the guy who conned Sawyer into killing the wrong man– Sawyer

    and now mrs. Hawkings– Desmond

    (andreas this may be an interesting separate thread to discuss the connections of people before the flight and what ‘fate’ brought them to the island)

    My question to all of you is were these people placed by Dharma? The other’s? Hanso Foundation? Widmore Labs? or was it Fate??

  60. Austin says:

    I’m liking this “final destination III” theme to the show! Is there anyone else we can think of who have conveniently avoided death several times?

    -Sawyer has been shot several times, tortured, stuff in the past, eh?

    -Locke was in the hatch, had his kidney (if I’m not mistaken) taken, whatever the event that made him loose his legs (sounds dangerous no matter what it is)

    any others?

  61. Ilovelost says:

    [quote comment=”39753″][quote comment=”39741″]I really do not want Charlie to die. I don’t think he will die, because the producers usually don’t tell you when someone is going to die. They surprised us with the news, but it will be prevented. Hopefully.[/quote]

    Something I just thought about is that maybe Charlie was meant to die when Ethan hung him in the tree, but Jack changed Charlie’s destiny by saving his life. Ever since, “the universe” has tried to kill Charlie to make things “right”. What do you think?[/quote]
    To Andreas: so wut do u think.
    Will he die? About the episode- there is something about the fact that Desmond got his glimpes of the future after banging his head right? i was a little confused. His flashbacks happened during he was lying on the ground after the hatch explosion. He needs to change things around and this is his chance. Therefore, Desmond will save the world and Charlie because he got a second chance..yeah! Okay, i really think the idea of final destination is cool, but i am a huge fan of Charlie- no way are they gonna kill him.

  62. Ilovelost says:

    sorry i repeated it..im new to this

  63. Anon says:

    Desmond’s precog abilities seem to be kicked into gear via a good head-whacking.

    He breaks up with Pen, and precog’s his way onto the boat race around the world (including the premonition that Jack would save Sarah, as noted by The Lost King). Then, the boat crashes on the island, and Des gets a good whacking — he gets a kind of amnesia — he’s forgotten the future.

    He spends the next 3 years in blissful(?) ignorance.

    But wait, there’s more! He gets yet another good whacking, and his memory of the future comes back! The hatch/key/purple sky thing does a super-whack on his head, and now his future-memory is more crystal clear than ever.

  64. Anon says:

    How to explain Desmond’s post-implosion nudity?

    He’s been through several cycles of time. Lindelof actually skipped a cycle and didn’t tell us. Here’s what we’re missing:

    Des turns the key – hatch implodes and the Lost timeline skips a cycle – from the TV viewer’s point of view, Lost continues in the next cycle after the implosion.

    Here’s what it would look like if we saw the missing cycle:

    Des turns the key – hatch implodes – Lost continues to the series finale. Cycle repeats. Des turns the key again. But, for this cycle he says, “What if I turned the key in the nude this time?”

  65. steve says:

    Ive been looking around at the whiskey brand maccutcheon (that is how it is spelled) and I cannot find anything on it except for some chess strategies….Has anyone else tried looking stuff up on it??

  66. monkeyman says:

    The fail safe mechanism works as such – it sends the person back in time so they can prevent the numbers being missed again giving the second chance (jeweller woman eludes to this). Des, however messes with the whole thing by protecting the barman and getting knocked out or killed by the bat. This spews him out back on the island after the explosion cos he was never in a position to protect the numbers. What do u think?

  67. Hammer says:

    Good one monkeyman…I need to ponder that one for awhile.

  68. Tina says:

    I’m trying to figure out what the Dharm LEP project has to do with what’s going on right now in the series. IF the LEP is designed to manufacture some kind of world saving figure on the island, everything with the time/space issue and Desmond’s precog abilities makes sense. However, I keep getting hung up on something Ben said to in an earlier episode, “We’re the good guys”. What if all this stuff about changing destiny, avoiding death, etc. has nothing to do with actually saving certain characters from fatal ends, but rather for certain key characters to understand the concept of Dharma. IF Dharma is in fact that which is good for all, the underlying schematic that ebbs and flows through the universe, that which is ultimately right, perhaps the Others are trying to facilitate the realization of the “good” for humanity. The Losties that they took would play a vital role in how they’re observance of the behavior and choices of the rest of the crash victims on the island and Jack, Sawyer, Kate, Desmond and maybe even Locke have some kind of role to play in this quasi-apocalyptic cycle.

    Maybe. It could all be just a crazy comic book come to life.

  69. monkeyman says:

    What if tapping in the numbers is a chainlink in events that save the world from something else (by keeping des on the island), not the machinery behind tapping in the numbers, but having someone (Des) in that position plays a part in something else. Therefore the tapping in of numbers being des’s greatest achievement (as said by jeweller woman) is in fact a POSITIVE not a NEGATIVE. Maybe his role in the grand scheme of things is to keep Charlie alive till Charlie does something that saves the world, making the numbers keeping him there very important? (I’m thinking this up as I write it, if you hadn’t guessed.)

  70. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”39804″]
    Here’s what it would look like if we saw the missing cycle:

    Des turns the key – hatch implodes – Lost continues to the series finale. Cycle repeats. Des turns the key again. But, for this cycle he says, “What if I turned the key in the nude this time?”[/quote]

    Haha!

    [quote comment=”39829″]The fail safe mechanism works as such – it sends the person back in time so they can prevent the numbers being missed again giving the second chance (jeweller woman eludes to this). Des, however messes with the whole thing by protecting the barman and getting knocked out or killed by the bat. This spews him out back on the island after the explosion cos he was never in a position to protect the numbers. What do u think?[/quote]

    That’s actually the first really reasonable theory on what the failsafe key actually does that I’ve read. I wouldn’t be surprised if you are on to something.

    [quote comment=”39789”]Do you think Charlie will die? sorry i repeated it..im new to this[/quote]

    Don’t worry about the repeated comments, I’ve deleted the copies.

    I don’t think Charlie will die because I’m pretty convinced that Desmond is going to realize that free will and determinism can co-exist so he will probably keep on saving Charlie.

    There wouldn’t be much point in telling the viewers that Charlie might die if he is actually going to die, as a storyteller I would create such a situation to create suspense and make the audience fear for Charlie’s life, but the ending to such a story would be the most fulfilling if the obstacles are overcome and he is saved from death.

  71. Hammer says:

    monkeyman, a theory I’ve been pondering…what if the universe course corrections are happening because the world is suppposed to end (Valenzetti’s findings). Therefore Dez is now the key because he’s the one that turned the key which may have in effect changed one or more of the numbers. The “universe” now needs him to go back again…not save the bartender or anyone else for that matter…and let things play out. This is the opposite of Dharma and that is why our “others” feel they are the good ones. The old women is part of the forces that want the numbers to stay the same and therefore they are the “bad” ones.

    Hmmmm?

  72. Samsandrasan says:

    It shocked me when Desmond told Charlie that it was him he was trying to save. Since the start of the show it seemed to me that Claire has had the cosmos after her. First she has a wing of the plane almost fall on her, then the hatch misses her by a couple of feet, lightning strikes her tent and now she is half drowned. Is she really just in the wrong places at the wrong times?

    As far as the time travel. I don’t think it is travel here as much as time folding in on itself. I don’t think Desmond has had to repeat years as some suggested. If the past were changed, I think it would “remap” memories in his brain (ie the movie Frequency). I also think he is “remembering the future” and that it has more to do with a fold or break in time – not actually travelling into the future. It is as if his past, present and future memories are all inside his present mind at once. I also don’t think the jeweller was an actual person. Subconcious, cosmic guide, smoke apparition maybe but, not a time traveller.

    One thing the belief in predestination might help me understand is the apparent apathy of the Others towards the plane survivors. They seem to be just watching what happens to them or using them as guinea pigs. They treat them like throw aways.
    Why help someone if they can’t be helped?

    Personally, I believe Free Will is a Gift that can be given away but not taken away.

  73. Pam says:

    [quote comment=”39878″]
    As far as the time travel. I don’t think it is travel here as much as time folding in on itself. I don’t think Desmond has had to repeat years as some suggested. If the past were changed, I think it would “remap” memories in his brain (ie the movie Frequency). I also think he is “remembering the future” and that it has more to do with a fold or break in time – not actually travelling into the future. It is as if his past, present and future memories are all inside his present mind at once. I also don’t think the jeweller was an actual person. Subconcious, cosmic guide, smoke apparition maybe but, not a time traveller.

    One thing the belief in predestination might help me understand is the apparent apathy of the Others towards the plane survivors. They seem to be just watching what happens to them or using them as guinea pigs. They treat them like throw aways.
    Why help someone if they can’t be helped?

    Personally, I believe Free Will is a Gift that can be given away but not taken away.[/quote]

    I think that makes sense!

  74. arnold-torn-to-bits says:

    [quote comment=”39769″]

    It seems that everyone on the island has made mistakes in their previous lives so I think that they had been brought to the island to face and relive their mistakes to be given a chance to change the course of their fate.

    An example of this is that if we consider Michael’s mistake was giving up Walt, then he was allowed to leave the island after he fully realized that he would kill to have him back. On the contrary, Eko firmly denied that he had ever made a mistake and for this the island decided he had no chance to redeem himself and killed him.[/quote]

    This is an interesting theory jack, I like it a lot.

    [quote comment=”39771″]

    The Others are a group who for one way or another have the ability (like Desmond) to see clips of their past life and future. Walts mental abilities are a perfect example of why he was taken, and Roussau (the french lady) claims her people developed a sickness– probably the ability to see the future would be interpreted as mental sickness by those who do not understand.

    As we have seen in countless movies and literature in which time travel is prominent, the ability to see the future is scary, and many do not want that responsibility. That is why Karl and Alex are so bent on escaping, they do not want the knowledge to see and the responsibility to change their future. Ignorance is bliss. This is why Karl was brainwashed with music telling him that only fools are enslaved by time and space– the fools ignorant of the future are enslaved by their fate and inability to change it. They flashed images of ‘everything changes’–this is contrary to the speech given to Desmond because they do not want Desmond to take control of his abilities to change time and space.

    Obviously the Others don’t have complete control over their changing of the the universe or else they would have even more control over the Losties. Additionally they are partially subjugated to fate and to “him”/ Jacob. They were told by Jacob (and therefore by fate) who to put on the list. Like Desmond, they have the power to change small, seemingly insignificant parts of the universe, but they are working against fate which decides major things and ‘course-corrects’ itself.[/quote]

    I’m not sure how much of this I want to believe as I have my own theories that contradict these (i’ll post some other time), but this does seem like a very possible explanation.

  75. Toeknee says:

    A few thoughts on what I found to be a very interesting and enjoyable episode:

    1. Interesting choice to have Charlie playing a song by Oasis – for those not familiar with them, Oasis is led by two brothers who each have had drug problems and have not always been on the best of terms with each other. Much like Driveshaft.
    2. As some have already noted, the name of the lady in the jewelry shop was Ms. Hawking. But I don’t know if anyone pointed out the connection between her name and last week’s episode (or maybe this is too obvious and doesn’t need to be pointed out), which featured the book by Stephen Hawking (A Brief History of Time).
    3. This again may be stating the obvious, but we now know that, prior to landing on the island, Desmond had interactions with at least 3 Losties – Jack, Libby, and Charlie. I don’t think any other Losties had direct interaction with each other prior to arriving at the airport – the closest was Sawyer bumping into the car Ana Lucia was in with Jack’s dad, if I remember correctly.
    4. It seems like most people here believe Desmond was actually traveling in time, but I don’t see it that way. I may be way off base, but I basically took the “flashback” to be a dream/hallucination of his life flashing before his eyes, in conjunction with the island talking to him (as it did to Locke and Eko in some fashion). Part of the reason I feel this way is that, being an engineer, I just can’t comprehend the logistics of traveling in time, but there are other more tangible clues as to why I see this as a dream. Desmond was knocked out for quite a while and he himself said he saw his life flash before his eyes. But the way I see it, as he was remembering it and as it was playing out before our eyes, he has the benefit (as do we) of knowing how things turned out afterwards. So when he dreams that he hears the beep of the microwave, he hears it as the only beep he’s heard for the last 3 years (in the hatch). This is not really what the microwave sounds like, this is a dream and his mind is using the beep from the hatch. Similarly, whenever there’s a number to play a role in the dream, it is in the form of “the numbers” that dominated his life for the previous 3 years. And somehow in this dream, his mind takes him back to an encounter he had with a street musician, whom he now realizes was Charlie. I think these are very common ways of how events in dreams manifest themselves – one’s mind takes bits and pieces of the thoughts and images (sometimes long-repressed thoughts and images) running around in it and tries to turn it into a story that makes sense. Then comes his encounter with Ms. Hawking, who may very well have been his subconscious, as he accused her of being. In my opinion, her purpose in the dream was to reaffirm to Desmond what he had been hoping was true for the previous three years – that pushing the button was important (note also that his dream of her telling him this came very shortly after Locke decided to not push the button, and that was when Desmond himself finally realized for sure that not pushing the button could have serious consequences, such as causing the crash of Oceanic 815, and that he had to turn the key to avoid some potentially greater catastrophe). Maybe it was his mind’s way of reassuring himself that he was not a failure of a person – the things Ms. Hawking said to him were mostly things he already knew to be true. But I do wonder if the island/the smoke monster somehow caused her to appear to him, and to tell him not only about the good he had done but also about the “course-correcting” theory. Lastly, he imagines he had a conversation with his friend about time travel, and I also see this as how one’s mind tries to make sense of all that is happening within the dream, because as he’s going through this dream, it seems to him like he is really living through those events (like many dreams seem to many people) and he feels the need to find out why he not only remembers many of these events happening previously, but also why he can predict upcoming events. So, and I may be wrong about this, but that’s my interpretation of his flashback – I don’t think he was actually re-living any portions of his life, and he never truly had the ability to alter the course of anything that had occurred to him prior to turning the key. He may have imagined things being done differently – for example, in the dream he actually bought the engagement ring, and he told the bartender to duck – but that was just part of the dream. And he is still on the island.

    (hopefully that makes sense – sorry for rambling)

  76. Anon says:

    I’ll go ahead and contradict my earlier posts; the whole time travel/pre-destination thing is a stretch. If the universe is so efficient at “course-correcting”, why did Mrs. Hawking try so hard to convince Des to leave Pen and go directly to the island? Using Hawking’s own logic, it wouldn’t matter, Des would end up on the island one way or another.

    If you’ve seen the 2003 remake of “The Italian Job”, you may remember at the end of the movie, Lyle used his share of the loot to buy a stereo system so loud that it would blow your clothes off. I’m not knowledgable about the underlying physics of this phenomenon, but it may be an alternate theory as to why Des was de-clothed. As I recall, the hatch implosion was quite deafening.

  77. Fluca says:

    Toeknee, I really enjoyed reading your post and all you’ve said makes much sense.

    But, there are a few things you left aside that I consider to be of importance.

    For instance, when asked by Charlie, Des replies that he wouldn’t want to know what happened to him, in a very dramatic way (almost to the point of strangling him), a response way too strong if we are to believe Des thinks what happened was all a dream (no matter how vividly).

    So, clearly, Des does consider the events depicted in the episode as real events (including the ‘time travel’).

    Another point left unatended is the fact that it does not explain in any way Des’ knowledge of future events, which, in his own words, are just like the one he experienced in his time travel to the past (he said both types of events were ‘flashes’ that didn’t stopped happening since the hatch exploded).

    Therefore, Des considers them to be one and the same, differing only in the direction of the travel (future or past).

    If you can make room to accomodate this two points in your theory, I’ll be glad to sign under it, since, as I’ve said before, yours seem to me to be, by far, the only really easy and coherent one.

    Cheers.

  78. frenchy_florims says:

    Hi !

    I have just seen the episodes and read few comments.
    Could some people explain me why you need some much explanations about everything ? I don’t want to be scornful but for me this is nonsense to look for explanations to what happened to Desmond beyond what we saw.

    For instance, I read people wondering about what the oven bips meant. The way I see it, this is nothing but a coincidence : a weird mystery that shakes me up.

    For sure Desmond didn’t travel in the time, he was dreaming otherwise he wouldn’t have waken up at the end, his body would have disapeared from the island.
    All he lived was coming from his mind and because of the release of electromagnetism forces. This is very very mysterious and that’s why I love it !

    Who was this old woman ? For me she definitely reminded me of the dark-skinned woman in Matrix who was a sort of “cybernetic ghost” or something. Anyway Mrs.Hawkins embodied the mythological figure of “oracle of Delphi”, the woman who is supposed to know everything, among ancient Greeks.
    I don’t remember the whole story with Penelope and Ulysseus but I am definitely sure there would be something relevant here with Penelope and Des’.

    So guys please stop asking so many questions, as far as I am concerned, this is stupid. When you watch a movie you just accept its magic, you don’t raise questions about when Jack Bauer pees or if Bruce Willis has headaches or how can he be so strong to save the world.

    Do “Heroes” fans also ask so many questions about the fact that one man can “bend time”, a cheerleader can regenerate, a serial killer can steal other people powers by cutting their skull ???
    That’s why I don’t understand your wonderings about Desmond flashes.

    Lost is a show about fate and hope. As a believer, not always rational in my expectations, I can only but love it with all my heart.

    Hence, is there a quarel in Lost viewers between rational (all the ingeneers commenting) and irrational people (people more “imaginative” like I feel) ?

  79. Toeknee says:

    To frenchy:

    I’m sorry if my post bothered you or came across as “a quarrel”. That was certainly not my intent, and in general I think the tone of most posts on this board of a non-quarrelling nature. I haven’t posted here often, but I have lurked for a while and what draws me to this particular board is the lack of quarrelling. There are some boards out there where the disagreements between posters turn downright nasty! In my post I wasn’t trying to say the “imaginative” posters (to use your term) are wrong, or idiots or anything like that. I merely presented my thoughts about why I disagreed with the many people who are saying they believe Desmond is a time-traveler. They may very well be correct, and I’m not completely discounting that interpretation of what happened. Hopefully we will get more of an explanation about that issue in upcoming episode(s).

    You made two statements that I found a bit strange, and I do not mean that in a condescending or mean way, so please do not be offended. One of them was “Could some people explain me why you need some much explanations about everything ?” and the other was “So guys please stop asking so many questions, as far as I am concerned, this is stupid. When you watch a movie you just accept its magic, you don’t raise questions about when Jack Bauer pees or if Bruce Willis has headaches or how can he be so strong to save the world.” I can’t answer on behalf of anyone else, but for me, a huge part of the enjoyment I get from this show is trying to figure out the answers to all of the questions that are raised, and filling in the missing pieces of the puzzle. My sense is that many of the viewers feel the same way, because there are numerous Lost message boards on the internet, with many many discussions about every single detail of the show. I don’t think the creators of the show view this as a bad thing, and at this point I think it is their intention to put things in the show to create these in-depth discussions. I get so much out of reading other people’s ideas. I don’t always agree, but in many instances other people’s posts open my eyes and mind to viewing a certain scene or a certain line of dialogue or a certain prop in a way I hadn’t considered myself. In other words I don’t “just accept its magic”, as you put it. Yes, the show can certainly be enjoyed on that level and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. But many people (i.e., probably most people who read and post messages at boards like this) enjoy digging further into the show and trying to figure out the meaning of all the little details.

  80. Toeknee says:

    To fluca:

    Thank you for the kind words. I certainly don’t think mine was the only coherent theory – there have been many other viable theories posted here, I just happened to see things a little differently than some.

    Regarding your point about how Des can see the future – as I was typing that post last night I was trying to find a way to work that fact in because it can’t be ignored, but my brain was fried and I couldn’t do it. Even now I’m not entirely sure how it fits in, but I’ll give it a shot….We don’t know exactly what physically happened to Desmond after he turned the key. Was there an actual explosion, or implosion as Locke said? Was Des thrown up into the air? (The same question could be asked about Locke, Charlie, or Eko.) When he awoke, how far was he from the location of the key that he turned? And related to that, where is the crater in relation to the location of the keyhole? The crater didn’t seem anywhere near as big as the hatch itself. And how long was he unconscious for? (how do you like that – me answering your question with more questions, in typical Lost fashion). My point with those questions is that we don’t know what actually, physically happened to Desmond. I wonder if whatever happened right at the moment he turned the key, or shortly thereafter, gave him the power to see the future. I had said before that I thought a portion of his “dream” was the island talking to him, as it had spoken to Locke and Eko. My sense is that even after he awoke the island is still talking to him and giving him glimpses into the future. I don’t know if that is a very solid explanation but I feel more comfortable with that than with the idea of time traveling.

    Now, regarding your point about Desmond’s strong reaction to Charlie’s question – maybe this is a cop out but I simply see it as Desmond believing his dream was real. Occasionally I have dreams that seem more realistic than others, and those dreams tend to stick with me longer than others, and in some rare instances I find myself thinking that something that happened in a dream actually happened in real life, although I usually catch myself and realize that incident was from a dream and was not real. But maybe, for some reason Desmond believes that dream was a real series of events that he experienced. Maybe that belief is related to the island talking to him, or maybe it’s due to the fact that he’s been essentially stuck on the island for over 3 years and that has affected his mental well-being, so this very vivid dream (enhanced by the island talking to him) seemed like reality to him. So when he says “You don’t want to know what happened” to Charlie, he’s also saying that to himself, in that he blew what he viewed as his chance to do things over and not dump Penelope and not end up on the island. Does that make sense?

    Just my interpretations…again sorry for being so wordy.

  81. Jonno says:

    Somebody earlier on posted that perhaps the Others have the same abilities as Desmond; to go back into time and view and possible change the past. This seems to make sense to me.

    We know the Others know everything there is to know about (at least some of) the losties – what if they’ve perfected a method of viewing the character’s pasts, in effect like we’ve been doing? While it appears like the flashbacks are just another form of narrative, what if we’ve been seeing exactly what the Others have been researching and studying about the characters?

    Also, I love that they’re getting metaphysical with the science-fiction component of the show, and reigniting the mystery and intrigue – for me this season’s been just as good as the first.

  82. Andreas says:

    I don’t really have anything to add to the discussion, but I just wanted to let you know that I’m reading the comments and that some very interesting thoughts and theories are being discussed.

    Regarding frenchy’s comment about why we need to discuss things as much as we do, I’d think you’ve been visiting this site long enough to know that discussing and making up theories is what we do, hehe!

    Sure, we could just enjoy the show and not think about it, and sometimes I would really love to just do that, but with episodes like “Flashes Before Your Eyes” there are so many strange things going on that I personally start thinking about them and want to discuss it with my friends to fully understand what I’ve seen.

    Like it was written above, Lost is not 24 or “Die Hard” and there are so many things going on that you are kinda missing out if you don’t think about and discuss the mysteries.

  83. frenchy_florims says:

    To Toeknee :

    You didn’t offend me and I apologize if I let you think so. It’s just I don’t have the same way as yours to interpret “Lost”.
    As for me, most people are too rational or down-to-earth, I just don’t know why but I guess you might be rather like Jack and I am rather like Locke …!
    My point is that Lost is a fiction, it’s kinda of a poetry, it’s a tale. It’s not a usual show people watch after drinking a beer and eating pizzas.
    There are many symbols that enable us to think about life in general.

    The mystery is a feeling impossible to understand, for me this is its definition.

    But if you ask me about the questions raised by the show, I would answer in different words.
    For me this a quest of the human soul about what is destiny, free-will. Consequently, I don’t really “care” if Des’ really travelled yes or not, this is a secondary matter.
    But obviously, you don’t think so, so I won’t insist and I totally respect your opinion.
    I also like reading the comments in order to catch details I didn’t see.

    To Andreas

    I sincerely regret Job doesn’t write any more posts on the blog cause he was answering my personal questions about philosophy. He had many literary references that are necessary, according to me, to understand what the show means.
    For the rest of it, I totally agree with you but again when I speak about Lost with my friends I try to understand the philosophical aspects of the show.
    Lost looks more and more like the movie “Matrix”, this is full of wonderings about religion, choices, past, which are fundamental themes of humankind for ever.

  84. Fluca says:

    Toeknee:

    Maybe this far fetched thoughts can help accomodate events more fully into your theory:

    Since we are talking about a dream, wich, in it’s turn, were prompted by the strange series of events that happened to Des, one manner to achieve a complete dream theory about it is to find a way to fit some pre-cognitive event (or even better, events) into the timeline period comprised between the hatch implosion and Des’ dream.

    Let’s try an example: what if Des, after the implosion and having acquired his pre-cognitive powers, had an ‘event’ and saw Sawyer and other losties being captured and taken to ‘alcatraz’ island. He then tried to change the ‘future’, but ended up failing and captured by the others.

    Thus, despite his efforts and the fact that he manages to get free (loosing his clothes in the process 😉 ), all he was really able to achieve was coming full circle, by falling unconscious on the same place where this whole ‘adventure’ started.

    This, in turn, leaves him with an aftertaste of defeat and hopelesness, which is later on translated in Des’ dream into the speech of the old bookstore lady.

    There, now, all events we saw in last episode are explained away as a dream, aimed at reconciling all of the new information Des was exposed to in those fatefull hours…

    Given that both series of events (dream and failed atempt to prevent the losties’ abduction to ‘alcatraz’ island), happened in tandem and consecutively, he would be fully excused for thinking all of it was real, which, in its turn, would explain his reaction to Charlie’s words.

    Cheers

    P.S. I know the events I created are a bit ludicrous, but their objective was only to ‘prove’ there would be a way to completely reconsile toeknee’s theory and all events we’ve seen so far, without tapping into time-travel territory.

  85. Pingback: Desmond’s flashback was not a dream - The Lost Blog

  86. Toeknee says:

    I hereby take back my far-fetched “dream” theory.

  87. Pingback: Stranger in a Strange Land - The Lost Blog

  88. Pingback: Catch 22 - The Lost Blog

  89. Pingback: sawtbladi.com » Blog Archive » Catch 22

  90. Pingback: Lost.sc » Blog Archive » Catch 22

Comments are closed.