Enter 77

Sayid in the Lost episode Enter 77

Before we get to the fun stuff, I want to say that I’m sorry for the lack of updates during the last few days. A pretty bad fever has forced me to stay in bed. I’m starting to feel a bit better, but don’t be surprised if you don’t see me around for a few more days. With that said I’m not going to let a fever, or anything else for that matter, stop me from publishing the “episode post”!

Enter 77

Last week’s Lost episode “Tricia Tanaka is Dead” was an entertaining break from the recent darker episodes. This week’s Sayid centric Lost promises more action and adventure as Locke, Kate and Sayid continue on their mission to save Jack from The Others.

This is the official description of the Lost episode “Enter 77”

Spoiler

Locke, Sayid and Kate investigate a strange structure and its mysterious inhabitant. Meanwhile, Sawyer competes in a ping-pong competition to get back his belongings, on “Lost,” WEDNESDAY, MARCH 7 (10:00-11:00 p.m., ET), on the ABC Television Network.

Please feel free to comment and discuss the episode, but try to keep it intelligent. No “Lost sucks, I’m never watching it again!” comments.

Also, I know you all feel bad for me, so there is no need break up the discussion with encouraging comments about my health. Let’s keep the discussion about the events in the episode!

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186 Responses to Enter 77

  1. Gabbers says:

    “Enter 77” makes me wonder if, in this “new” hatch, there is another button being pushed (perhaps by ol’ one-eyed higgins) Hrmm…

  2. Toni says:

    hey, btw there is a new interview of damon and carlton here: http://www.kcrw.com/etc/programs/tt/tt070307damon_lindelof_and_c

  3. lostfan says:

    good thought, they might let him live dso they dont have to worry bout it no more

  4. cazzie says:

    welcome back lost…after a couple of weeks, and many fans complaining bout weak episodes, i was one of them it is great to see a great episode that kept me on the edge of my seat….thanx lost for coming back strong.

  5. Dizzydude says:

    Anyone know what all that yelling between the Black woman and the Russian Eyepatch man was? I think it mightve been Russian, but dont know for sure? Any answers?

  6. JoshSpazJosh says:

    I was expecting something ridiculously awesome and game-changing so I was a little disappointed but overall I liked it a lot. The flashback was really compelling and when Candle said “Enter 77” I freaked out when I realized what was going to happen. Same when they started speaking Russian.

    The dialogue is still pretty weak, and they’ve softened up Sawyer to the point where “The Long Con” seems like an unneccessary episode. Locke seems to be pretty dumb in this episode, but judging from what’s coming up, maybe we’ll learn that he’s acting dumb to further his own interests? (He just destroyed a huge chance for them to get off the island, which is very in-character for Locke Season 1 at least.)

  7. i'dgetlostwithsawyer says:

    I hope that Locke’s stupidity somehow turns out to be a good thing b/c I was tearing my hair out and how cavalier he was to just walk up to a computer (esp. as he knows from previous experience that hatch comptuers aren’t always what they seem) and start playing chess like it’s a lazy sunday and then enter 77 and not realize that patchy might be putting on a ruse. Anyway, I hope someone speaks Russian so we can find out what Ms. Klugh said in her last breath but it might not even be that groundbreaking….

  8. Yo Factor says:

    The dialogue in Russian:
    Klugh: Mikhail! You know what to do.
    Mikhail: We still have another way.
    Klugh: We cannot risk. You know what to do.
    Mikhail: We still have another way.
    Klugh: We cannot risk. You know the conditions.
    Mikhail: We have another way.
    Klugh: They know us. We will not let them [unintelligible]. You know what to do. It is an order.
    Mikhail: But we still have another way! (pause) I’m sorry! (shoots)

  9. cazzie says:

    one question…about that cat…i know it was a deja vu for sayid…but what do think it is about? the cat in the flashback got put into a box and tortued before being rescued. it is kinda like the losties and the island. they are trapped in a “box”(island) and being tortured by “firecrackers”(all the different “accidents to them”) now all we need is some french woman to come rescue us…..RUSO?????

  10. i'dgetlostwithsawyer says:

    Definitely a good allegory b/w nadia the cat and the Losties…and Nadia was sayid’s ex-love’s name from the flash-bs? I’d love for that cat to actually be the same one and that somehow sayid’s torturee knew that he would be on the island or that she knew the russkie and he brought the cat, or something. Maybe we need a cat flashback.

  11. FMGreenSteve says:

    That episode was season 1 caliber – very well done.

    Next week could be a step backward though, it already has the feel of another ABC over-hype.

  12. i'dgetlostwithsawyer says:

    Very true, very true. Like “A connection…. between survivors….REVEALED!”. Hello, we already know that Jack and Claire are most likely siblings…what else could you be telling us….

  13. Luke says:

    Thanks for the translation Yo Factor. I don’t really speak Russian but I took it for two semesters in high school and then promptly forgot everything.

    I pretty much got the “You know what to do part” but I couldn’t decipher the rest.

    I was wondering what happened to whatsherface – I was surprised not to see her on the Hydra island. I figured that maybe the actress went on to do bigger and better things and they just quietly wrote her out of the story. It turns out she was sitting in the Flame Station with Eyepatch McRussianguy.

    I think that the big piece of info here is that Others predate Dharma and that there was violent conflict between the two groups. Now what are Others doing on the island?

    I always thought that they were abandoned remnants of Dharma but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

    Interesting thing – either Radzinsky or Inman knew about the Flame station because it was featured on the hatch door map. This means that the two probably knew about Eyepatch and his operation there.

    So here is a big question: were Radzinsky and Inman abandoned Dharma operatives or where they working with Others?

  14. SS says:

    Is it my imagination or did the Russian guy look a little like Alvar Hanso… At first I was really excited because I thought it was him, but I was wrong. Where in the world do the others come from if they predate Dharma?!

  15. Lesley says:

    That was excellent! It seems now they REALLY have no communication (Plan B is??) and our losties have a two new maps, the Others precede Dharma if Patchy can be believed…hmmm…and he mentioned a listening station…. Dude – Hurley’s got some confidence! I thought the Zorro line was great and Locke was certainly right in character. Nicely done, very Season 1. Looking forward to picking this one apart tomorrow.

  16. froggirl says:

    Didn’t Inman mention something about Hostiles? So maybe he was on the same “side” as Eyepatch?

    Good episode. I don’t think Jon meant to blow up the flame station. Remember he didn’t go to the basement so didn’t know it was wired.

  17. SuperDav says:

    Another good episode. What was up with the chess game? You had to play a chess game and win if the hostiles had taken over. Yeah Locke you pushed the button this time and it still blew up. Katie and her black horse, Jack and his Dad, Hurley and Dave, and now Sayid and his cat ….hummmm. Did anyone else notice that the woman was about as tall if not taller than the one eye man? That means the horse wasn’t setup for her either. As for the horse was it still standing next to the building when it blew up? Are we going to see animal rights group protesting in the jungle?

  18. Jules says:

    Did anyone catch the typed up paper looking thing with the red markings? It’ll be interesting to freeze frame that part of the episode tomorrow to see if it revealed anything. I know it was definitely in another language (probably Russian).

  19. KJ says:

    Thanks for the Russian translation! I knew someone’d have it. I figured out it was basically, “Shoot me,” but I’m glad to hear what it all was.

    I agree that John probably didn’t mean to blow up the station. The look on his face as it exploded was similar to the look on his face when the smoke monster grabbed him last season—he actually looked scared.

    And yeah, who was it that kept talking about “hostiles” before this episode? I knew it rang familiar, but I couldn’t figure out from where. I kept thinking it was from the Lost Experience, but now that y’all mention it, maybe it was Kelvin.

    On a completely different note—no Sawyer nicknames for a week! That’s, like, seven episodes! Whoah.

  20. DJ says:

    I have come to the conclusion that the survivors of Flight 815 and The Others were put on the Island because they were too stupid to be allowed to remain part of civilization. I mean, if you found a building and saw that it was wired with explosives, wouldn’t you mention it to the other people you came with?

    Combine that with Juliet’s leaving her cell phone on after it nearly ruined her attempt to break in and steal stuff, and we are left with a clear picture that these people are too stupid to be let loose on the free world. Best to put them on an island somewhere and see how their stupidity interacts when forced into conflict.

  21. Nate says:

    I made a connection to the numbers..

    ok… 100-77=23 oooooooohhhhhhhhhhh, i dont remember the other numbers but just thought id throw that out there… good episode cant wait for more of the show!

  22. patience says:

    Hasn’t Danielle referred to the others as the hostiles? If Dharma members tried to purge the Hostiles at some point within a timeslot of the last 11 years wouldnt that mean that Danielle, having been on the the island for 16 years had been there during the pinnacle of Dharma Research. I’m Definately going to watch that one a few times, the others have been there longer than Dharma (the Plot thickens), I believe Locke knew what he was doing when hew blew the flame up, after all he doesnt want to go home. Great episode sort of game changer from a certian point of view it gives me alot to think about.

  23. scott says:

    WTF was that???? I mean, ask the flame dude about the eyepatch already. We need answers! They better wrap this up before ABC cancels the show!

    =)

    Great episode.

  24. Courtney says:

    In response to the question re: the Russian conversation…I can’t give you an exact translation, but as a beginning Russian student, I wil able to get a gist of the conversation. The woman was talking a lot slower and was easier for me to understand. She was repeating, “Do what you have to do. You know what you have to do. That’s an order.” I couldn’t understand everything that the man was saying, but I do believe the last thing he said before he shot her was, “Forgive me.” If there are any more advanced Russian speakers out there, I’d love to hear their impressions of that discussion!

  25. Courtney says:

    Whoops! I should have read all the way through the comments. Someone else already posted a better translation. Sorry about that!

  26. Monica says:

    I’m hoping that since Sayid took the map showing the bunkers, there’s a chance he also took one of those 3 ring binders about the food drops and the DI protocol.

    Backing up to last week, I don’t understand why Kate wanted Sawyer to apologize? For what? He didn’t do anything wrong…anyone know where she is coming from?

  27. Eng says:

    Sayid could be dead while walking toward the station.

    Why didn’t the eyepatch guy shot him in the chest?

  28. Lesley says:

    Kelvin discussed the “Hostiles” with Desmond and Desmond referred to the Others as Hostiles as well. I am betting that Patchy and Mrs. Klugh were at the Flame in order to try to get the communicaitons up again. It also appears to have been their storage facility…all that meat in the huge freezer. Also Monica, Kate wanted Sawyer to apologize for saying that she made love with him only because she thought he was going to die.

  29. Lesley says:

    So do the Others simply own the island and recruit the people they need for their closed ans secret society (like doctors)? Are they the descendants of the original natives and the Black Rock survivors. Do they protect themselves from outsiders to keep their ranks “pure”? Eye-for-an-eye justice, funeral pyres, brainwashing, tapes of red sox games, back yards,book clubs. The show is fascinating! (Yo factor, thanks for translating so quickly!)

  30. MasterPo says:

    I think the Flame guy was telling the truth about most things. It confirmed the suspicion the Others have at least 1 submarine which leads to the question: Is access to the island via undersea tunnel? That wouldn’t be without precidence in sci-fi (a lost world in a giant cave deep under the sea).

    And it’s now clear IMO (like I’ve been saying here for months) that there are *2* groups of people on the island (not including the Losties).

    ps- WTF was Locke thinking when he enter 77?? What did he expect to happen when he gave a positive response to the question about being overrun by ‘hostiles’?

  31. Hammer says:

    IMO Locke is “acting” dumb. He still does not want to get off the island. He knew that entering 77 would do something to break off communication by the way Candle phrased the question.

    We also saw another example of repenting to get out of trouble (Sayid’s torture victim).

    Looks like the “purging” may really have been a virus released on the island to try to get rid of the hostiles? Looks like the hostiles were the original inhabitants and Dharma was trying to take over the island to do their research but ran into people that didn’t want them there.

  32. cog says:

    A few things:

    1. Is it possible that Locke didn’t actually destroy the last link to the outside world? Maybe entering 77 does two things–first, destroys the evidence (blowing up the Flame), but second, sends out a distress signal. Think about it, why would the Others have a guy occupying an old Dharma station? There are only 2 options: 1) the station has something that they want for their own purposes, or 2) they know it has a distress signal that will bring more intruders to their island, so they want to guard it to make sure that no one trips that distress signal.

    2. If the Others and Dharma are different groups (pretty obvious now), how far back do the Others go? Decades? Centuries? Millennia? Is it possible that the Others’ ancestors built the statue with only three toes?

    3. This was a great episode.

  33. Hammer says:

    Here’s a question. What was so important about the station or the woman that they had orders to kill her and were faithful enough to carry out those orders?

  34. Hammer says:

    jc – see comment 8

  35. cog says:

    [quote comment=”43360″]Here’s a question. What was so important about the station or the woman that they had orders to kill her and were faithful enough to carry out those orders?[/quote]

    Hammer, it’s important to remember that the russian guy was also trying to kill himself, so it wasn’t just Klugh that was important. They both have knowledge that’s important enough for them to die over.

    My guess is that, via Ben, they know that Sayid is a torturer, and is good at getting information when he wants it. But will he use his skills to question Patchy? Or is he trying to stop torturing?

    Either way, Patchy is a tough customer, and won’t give up his secrets easily.

  36. Hammer says:

    cog – Got that, but what was so important that they were willing to die? Just a stupid satelitte dish? They have to know that the outside world would find a way to get back into communication at some point…they are protecting something else IMO. I mean, if you can find the island to make food drops and get people on the island, you can make contact again.

  37. lindsey says:

    the purge if it was a virus could have been what killed all of rousseau’s crew. But she has been there for 16 years and the russian guy said he was there for 11 years. Or maybe she is a spy also from the others and that is why she is still alive. Maybe we will find a connection between her and the losties.

  38. Tasha says:

    I don’t think Locke knew what was going to happen either. Maybe he just wanted to warn Dharma that the “hostiles” had taken over. I mean who would really stop and think…oh if I hit 77 to warn them, then this place is going to blow up.

    The cat was weird. Was that another hallucination or will that cat go back with the survivors so Vincent will have a friend? How the heck did that cat even get there? Shouldn’t it have been dead by now? Maybe the cat is an experiment on life extention?

    What bothers me about this epsiode is they finally find a whole building full of information and could have learned more….then they blow it up. There goes all the answers!

    Also I don’t understand why that man helped them and fixed Syid to begin with. He could have just acted dumb and not taken out the bullet. Why did he go thru the trouble if he was just going to turn on them?

  39. chewap says:

    locke is part of the game…think about it!

  40. Hammer says:

    Tasha, Locke would think that because he blew up another station by playing with a computer.

    Patchy was protecting something, he was trying to make nice so he wouldn’t have to kill himself and Klugh.

    BTW – They put doubt back in our heads about whether the hatch exploded or imploded by having Hugo comment about it again. The pingpong table blew out of the hatch?

  41. Tasha says:

    i just read a couple of more comments. Maybe the “hostiles” were using Dharma’s experiments for there own good. Maybe they were just people living on the island. They act like they areDharma so Dharma will keep sending supplies??
    OR
    Maybe the Others ARE Dharma…and the hostiles are the survivors. Maybe it’s just a big setup and once the button was pushed it was to keep people like the survivors of 815 from uncovering the truth so it blew up.

    There is obviously contact with the outside world. Why would they still be dropping off food and supplies? So dharma thinks these people are still on the island. Ben wouldn’t have that information if there wasn’t some type of contact. That building was not the last chance for contact.

  42. Tasha says:

    How would he have known that it would be a bit before it blew up? He just walked on out of there all casually. He didn’t seem like he was in too much of a hurry to get away.

    [quote comment=”43370″]Tasha, Locke would think that because he blew up another station by playing with a computer.

    Patchy was protecting something, he was trying to make nice so he wouldn’t have to kill himself and Klugh.

    BTW – They put doubt back in our heads about whether the hatch exploded or imploded by having Hugo comment about it again. The pingpong table blew out of the hatch?[/quote]

  43. Hammer says:

    Tasha – We don’t know what response the computer gave him once he entered 77.

  44. Hammer says:

    chewap – what are your thoughts on the connection.

  45. whatif says:

    Just a thought: Regardless of whether there is a satellite dish or not, the islanders will always have a connection to the outside world: Desmond & his time-travelling abilities.

    great episode.

  46. mb says:

    Ohhh great episode!
    1. I think the french woman(Ruso)is part of Dharma or even a hostile? I think it was a little wierd how she stayed behind…I also noticed how everytime she said something the camera focused on the eyepatch guys eye movements…connection?What was she doing the whole time they were in the flame?It doesnt seem like her just to stay by the stream.
    2. I was happy to see the black woman get shot, she was really getting on my nerves,but why was she so ready to die? I thought she was a higher ranking “other”?
    3. Locke! This guy is too strange…I dont even know where to start. I wonder how so the flame blow up? Is there any Dharma people left on the island to see or notice the expolsion?

  47. Hammer says:

    The history of the show tells us that the island has been found several times before, they will find it again.

  48. Elsie says:

    If I have a horse saddled up waiting to go home, all I have to do is turn him loose and off he goes for home, heading back to the hostiles, right? Isn’t that where they were trying to go? Maybe I missed something…

  49. eternyl says:

    It had seemed to me that patchy was telling Russo’s story as his own……about being a Dharma operative, and staying out of the fight between the hostiles, and Dharma.

    It kind of matched up with Russo’s philosophy of not getting involved, and staying alive this long by avoiding the confrontation….maybe why she waited by the stream, because it would screw up her chance to find her daughter….probably the only reason she’d risk confronting the Hostiles.

    I also think she has a set of boundaries that the others hold her to….and that’s why she has lasted so long.

    It’s hard to imagine Russo’ never saw the flame before, since the submarine cable runs right past her hideout, directly to the flame.

  50. Hammer says:

    To me it just supports that she is a plant. She gave up Ben, now she sits back and waits when she is on a mission with the Losties to find her daughter? I would think she would be more agressive knowing that Kate is helping her find Alex.

  51. Jocco says:

    I looks like I’m the only one that thinks Locke blew up a decoy flame. He has a history of being duped in times when he wants to trust. The others want the survivors to think that they blew up the flame. Why, I couldn’t tell you. The secret that Klugh died for is that the Flame is actually underground just like the Swan and in the immediate vicinity of the farm. I do believe that the Others were using the place as a farm and will probably be upset about their loss of fresh hamburger, ny strip, and ribeye.

    The reason that I think that the building that Locke blew up is a decoy is its construction. It was a half finished pole barn, with no insulation of any kind, and a roof that probably had several large leaks in it. Why would Dharma make their communications hub in such a crappy building? They wouldn’t. The actual Flame will still be found.

  52. Bruce says:

    Then I would have to say, look at the map again. What configuration is the Flame?

  53. Rockey says:

    does the french woman have to do with the eye patch guy

  54. sidcom says:

    Hey did you all see the special camp site when syeid showed the map

  55. 812jenni says:

    There is contact with the outside world of somesorts. Remember Desmonds girlfriend from last seasons cliffhanger? Danielle said she didn’t go in because that is how she stayed alive all these years. I found that to be odd since she didn’t waste any time wanting to kill Patchy at the end. That would be something to stay out of if you ask me.

  56. XtraCripsy says:

    [quote comment=”43388″]

    The reason that I think that the building that Locke blew up is a decoy is its construction. It was a half finished pole barn, with no insulation of any kind[/quote]
    It’s a tropical island, if anything, you’d expect to see air conditioning to keep the electrical equipment cool.

    Another point. Kelvin was also an Other pretending to be a Dharma guy. All the Dharma people were killed by the virus. The people in the outside world who send the supplies don’t know this. The Others are maintaining contact, pretending to do the research. Or, Mittlewerk is supporting the Others.

    The Others are mutants who are expected to repopulate the Earth once the Valenzetti equation plays out and humankind is destroyed. They are also producing mutant animals with special powers.

  57. Pingback: Terminally Incoherent » Blog Archive » Lost: DHARMA Drama - the Tot Plickens!

  58. XtraCripsy says:

    whoa, the tags are messed up. my comment starts with “It’s a tropical island…”

  59. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”43401″]…she didn’t waste any time wanting to kill Patchy at the end. That would be something to stay out of if you ask me.[/quote]

    Kind of supports that she’s and plant is aware that he has to die to protect something key…she may not know what “it” is…but knows he must die to protect “it”.

  60. AnotherOther says:

    BEST EPISODE EVER!

    But why was Locke so stupid and entering 7-7. Locke was not his usual quick-witted self. He seemed so distracted by the Chess game it threw him off.

  61. Jocco says:

    Even in tropical environments, insulation is important for maintaining a constant temperature for high tech equipment. If the building truly was a communications center, why would it be so poorly constructed compared to the Pearl, the Staff, and the Swan? IMO the entire complex from last night was built by the Others and not Dharma.
    I think that the three survivors were expected and their actions were expected as well. Perhaps Klugh’s death was orchestrated and she’ll be back.

  62. XtraCripsy says:

    Jocco, you may be right, or it may be a plot hole.

    If Klugh really did die, what is the greater good that she is willing to die for? Or maybe she has a clone?

  63. Hammer says:

    Jocco – just a point…I don’t think the equipment requires that much temp. control. I live in MI, my satelite works when it’s -5 and 100+, so does my computer. Besides the computer did work and how would they fake a Dharma tape from Candle, program a chess to work as a password, etc. with such little notice of the new search party? Not to mention they would have to have known that Locke would find Eko’s stick, interpret to mean a compass directive, start from a certain point to end up at a certain point. I’m rambling…

  64. Jocco says:

    Hammer, I hear your logic. I guess without giving any technical reasons, I am still bothered by why such an important station would be in an unfinished barn like structure. The construction of every other station is expensive, high grade construction. They are built to last. Last nights flame looks like a barn my dad built when I was a kid. Good barn-electricity, running water-but a bad place to have the communications center for a massive scientific project.
    Xtra-crispy-I think that Bea died to protect the real location of the flame. I think that there is a possibility that whoever controls the flame controls the island

  65. Jen says:

    I have to agree with Hammer:

    Hammer
    Comment 33, posted 2 hours, 39 minutes ago – Quote and reply
    IMO Locke is “acting” dumb. He still does not want to get off the island. He knew that entering 77 would do something to break off communication by the way Candle phrased the question.

  66. Jen says:

    [quote comment=”43280″]Definitely a good allegory b/w nadia the cat and the Losties…and Nadia was sayid’s ex-love’s name from the flash-bs? I’d love for that cat to actually be the same one and that somehow sayid’s torturee knew that he would be on the island or that she knew the russkie and he brought the cat, or something. Maybe we need a cat flashback.[/quote]

    If the others know facts about each of the survivors just like they knew facts about Jack’s life, maybe they purposely called the cat Nadia for an effect on Sayid. And IF this is true, did they know Sayid was coming?

  67. Hammer says:

    Jocco – you onto something with controlling the Flame, but I just have this hunch that they are protecting more than an communication center. Candle had it set up blow up the station rather than “hostiles” having control. Why wouldn’t they just cut off the main land side of the communication when it was taken over? It’s likely a “closed” satelite right, for control reasons…you wouldn’t be able to talk to Lost bloggers. 🙂

  68. cj says:

    What comes to mind when you think of FLAME???? could that be a clue. I like point about the fact that bea died to protect the true location of the flame, THERE IS NO WAY EQUIPMENT like that from the 1980+ could survive in a condition like that(My modern day laptop can’t even operate in 130’+ environments let along an ol school computer like that, trust me i know i been to iraq with it)
    Yes the building is run down and should be because of its age, but so should the equipment if it has been left in this ole shack… My assumption is that it simply an entrance to the true HUB of the island, something worth dieing for…

    BTW has anyone looked at the ad pictures with the cast members standing on the beach on the ABC lost page…. well WHY IS DESMOND standing in the position as the others are, look how the main cast seems all in one position yet Desmond and the others are positioned in the opposite direction… OH BTW WHERE THE FRICK IS DESMOND???

  69. Joel says:

    Great blogging today!
    Is “The Flame” synonymous with the beacon that was used for the subs? Was the blueprint form last week indicating the stright line “tunnel” that would be necessary for the subs to move undetected to an underground port under the island?
    Jocco–thanks for reminding me of hamburger. It had really bothered me when Juliet made Jack a cheeseburger; now I can see where she might have had a supply of beef.
    I was glad to see the beach again; seeing Sawyer try to clean/fix his glasses after he lost the game was a good connection back to his earlier problems with vision. Hurley is confident–that’s cool. Still no sight of Rose and Bernard.
    One more thing. Someone asked where could the Others get a tape of Candle to use in the computer game…wasn’t a tape cut earlier? Perhaps we were seeing a splice of that.

  70. MasterPo says:

    This is starting to look similar to an old (from the early 90’s) PC game called “Quantum Gate”. A good multi-media adventure story.

    The upshot is that Earth needs a rare element to survive and we find it on another planet in an alternate quantum reality. So government and corporate powers setup a base on this other hellish world to mine the element. But first they have to kill the creatures (giant insect-like things) to make the place safe for the mining. To make a long story short, the gov/corps use extensive VR effects to fool the soldiers and others because the planet isn’t really hellish at all – it’s very Earth-like! And the ‘creatures’ aren’t insect-monsters but medieval-class humanoids!

    Would have made a good movie IMO.

  71. i'dgetlostwithsawyer says:

    I thought it was interesting that Mikhail seemed suprised when Sayid told him of Kelvin’s sailboat — like he didn’t know (or he was pretending…). Kelvin referenced the hostiles when he was talking about his old partners — Radzinski, etc. How does this clear up what we know about Kelvin — he was pretending to be a Dharma member when he rescued Desmond, but what about his partners? Do you think Mikhail knew the partners (were they Dharma or not?) — and had a connection to them? What about Kelvin?

  72. Joel says:

    May be a stretch, but Radzinski and Mikhail?? Are these both Russian names?

  73. MasterPo says:

    Also – Kate seemed surprised even freightened by the large slabs of meat in the fridge.

    Looked like beef to me but, could it be some other animal? Maybe human?!

    Assuming the meat is for eating it confirms one thing: The Others aren’t vegetarians. I think this is an important point because in all other sci-fi stories of recent times they show “enlightened” and “superior” people not eating meat anymore. I don’t want to start a meat/veggie argument. Just pointing out that’s a common theme in most sci-fi today.

  74. Jocco says:

    Now this is getting fun! I think that the Candle clips were taken from the actual Flame. The Others have overridden the original protocols for the distress signal and set up the new station in the fake Flame with the chess game to entice John. As someone said earlier, why would you have to win a chess game to call for help? You wouldn’t. It is all about luring Locke. Blowing it up is a mind game-the real Flame is still in contact with Dharma and that’s where all of that great Dharma food and alcohol comes from. I wonder if they have Dharma cigarettes?
    Cj-the building wasn’t run down-it was unfinished.

  75. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”43423″]What comes to mind when you think of FLAME???? [/quote]

    A cheesy 80’s song by Cheap Trick? 🙂

    I don’t think this station was a decoy. Maybe it’s not used as much as it had been in years past, but I do think this is a manned station, at least part-time. Remember how a few days earlier island time they saw Patchy on the monitor in the Pearl Station? What behaviors/activities were being monitored? Has Patchy been expecting visitors, as Locke said, since Patchy seemed to know someone was watching him through that camera?

  76. Joel says:

    Surprised by the size and from not having had any meat in a long time.

    Does anyone else wonder about the cat in that cats are often wanderers, but come home. If “Nadia” had wandered, she would have been seen before. Maybe Vincent would have smelled her…

    How old would the cat be? Any other cats around?

  77. Joel says:

    [quote comment=”43435″]Surprised by the size and from not having had any meat in a long time.

    Does anyone else wonder about the cat in that cats are often wanderers, but come home. If “Nadia” had wandered, she would have been seen before. Maybe Vincent would have smelled her…

    How old would the cat be? Any other cats around?[/quote]
    My first line was a reply to MasterPro about Kate’s surprise.

  78. susan says:

    Could Rousseau been a part of the others? Didn’t she say she was part of a scientific group? Could she have escaped but could not take her daughter? Or could they have tossed her out and kept her baby daughter? They did seem to be in the kid snatching bussiness for a while.

  79. XtraCripsy says:

    [quote comment=”43428″]This is starting to look similar to an old (from the early 90’s) PC game called “Quantum Gate”. A good multi-media adventure story.[/quote]

    MP, I think you’re on to something. It might be a competition set up between the Others and humans to see who would be best suited for repopulating the Earth.

    I bet in the end, people will be noticing that this story was used elsewhere.

  80. Jocco says:

    What if Patchy is lying? What if Dharma was first and the Others came second and they have some reason for wanting the world to think that they had dibbs on the island?

  81. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”43352″]And it’s now clear IMO (like I’ve been saying here for months) that there are *2* groups of people on the island (not including the Losties).[/quote]

    I don’t think this was cleared up in last night’s episode. Mikhail and Bea are affiliated with the Ben/Tom/Juliet group, so who is in the 2nd group? I’m not saying there isn’t such a group, but I don’t think we know exactly who they are, or if there is anyone alive in that 2nd group. This link has some spoiler-ish information on this subject: http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx?columndate=28-Feb-2007

  82. Toeknee says:

    I don’t know how much, if any, of Mikhail’s story we can believe. It seems to me that the Others seem to be prepared for encounters with newcomers to the island, and that they’ve gone so far as to have storylines already figured out, so they can get through and interrogation. Ethan, Goodwin, and Ben all had immediate answers to any questions that were asked of them. I’d imagine the same is true for Mikhail. So I’m sure there were some pieces of truth in his story, but I’d imagine that the story was carefully crafted so no important pieces of information were given away.

  83. MasterPo says:

    [quote comment=”43444″]
    I don’t think this was cleared up in last night’s episode. Mikhail and Bea are affiliated with the Ben/Tom/Juliet group, so who is in the 2nd group?[/quote]

    The group of “primative” Others that Jing and Ecko saw on the other side of the island when they were hiding in the under brish. A group came by, looking very raggedy (we only saw thier legs and below) and one was dragging the teddy bear with a rope or wire around it’s neck.

    I think a ‘Lord of the Flies’ story here is very possible. Perhaps the first Dharma people splintered into two groups: One that remained scientific/modern and the other that went ferral.

  84. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”43435″]Surprised by the size and from not having had any meat in a long time.

    Does anyone else wonder about the cat in that cats are often wanderers, but come home. If “Nadia” had wandered, she would have been seen before. Maybe Vincent would have smelled her…

    How old would the cat be? Any other cats around?[/quote]

    I think they said in the beginning that they had been walking for two days. A cat would wander, but stay pretty close to where she is being fed. Therefore, not stray as far as the beach.

    I believe several of the Others, including Karl, said they had never been off the island; i.e. had been born there. I think that the Others have been on the Island the longest- maybe they were the ones who got rid off/ destroyed the original inhabitants (the ones with the three-towed statue)? IMO all the Dharma people are dead, although that might not be apparent to their main-land connection.

  85. samsandrasan says:

    I said awhile back that I don’t know why we believe Rousseau’s story so easily. She is an odd piece of the puzzle. The Russian guy was definately reacting to her presence.

    Jocco I agree with you about the equipment – I would be worried about the humidity. But then again, my father worked with MARS project [Military Affiliated Radio Station] and the one I saw a photo of was just a tin building. Probably along the Gulf Coast (humid).

    If there are four groups of people – Dharma; Hostiles; Others; Survivors – Dharma folks are dead; The Others are not the Hostiles but Dharma replacements – what then is Ben if he’s “been there all his life”? Where are the Hostiles and are they indigenous or just got there first? Are there only 3 groups – the Others being the Hostiles? If so, why are new people being sent to them from the outside world (ie Juliet)?

    The van map was the carbon of the map Sayid has? So I guess the table in the middle of the map we saw from the van was a barracks. Anybody have any idea what the 45-290 VV is? I think the VV looks like some kind of symbol but I can’t place it. Like the old Westinghouse symbol or maybe a symbol for the radio station.

  86. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”43450″]
    The group of “primative” Others that Jing and Ecko saw on the other side of the island when they were hiding in the under brish. A group came by, looking very raggedy (we only saw thier legs and below) and one was dragging the teddy bear with a rope or wire around it’s neck.
    [/quote]
    I suppose that is possible, but I always thought the raggedy-looking people were part of the same group, just in disguise for when they go out in public soas not to give away the fact that they are civilized, just as Tom always wore that fake beard.

  87. theOtherdave says:

    A very good episode.

    Just like Sayid glaring at Locke I did the same and actually yelled “Noooo, you idiot!” as the Flame went up in flames.

    Of course this brings me back to why information isn’t shared between the Losties. All Sayid had to do was yell up to Locke not to touch anything, because the place is wired to blow up. But NO, it’s a TV show and that would seem to be too common sense and common sense is NOT ‘entertainment’. Arrrgh.
    Locke gets on my nerves. As does Russo. I don’t know why yet. Everyone talks crytically to each other and she is the worst for it.

    This episode was exactly like Season 1. A little intrigue and action with a little lighthearted interaction at the beach.

    I like the flashbacks like most, but I was glad Sayid’s flashback wasn’t like Hurleys- too long.

  88. MasterPo says:

    There’s another possibility: The Good/Evil Split theme.

    A very common theme in sci-fi is ‘splitting’ a person into 2-half copies: one good, one evil (like the evil Capt. Kirk from the old Star Trek episode – can’t remember the name).

    Maybe they have a machine on the island that ‘splits’ people like this? Or there’s someplace on the island that naturally does it? That would explain why Ben and the other Others constantly say “We’re the good guys” implying there are “bad guys” somewhere.

  89. Erin says:

    This is the best show ever. Every Wednesday night I dream about it… My brain is working overtime trying to figure out what on earth is going on. Now I have even more stuff to think about. I think you’re right about the Flame being some sort of decoy.

    Oh, and I love seeing the more vulnerable side of Sawyer. He’s in love with Kate. And she’d be crazy not to be completely in love with him! (let’s hope these two get their act together… I’m sure they’ll be relieved to finally see each other again when Kate, Locke and Sayid return to the beach)

  90. Erin says:

    I forgot to mention, I LOVED it when Nikki said something to Sawyer and he looked at her and said “Who are YOU?” None of us like Nikki and Paulo, and even the Losties wonder where the h*** they came from!

  91. Hammer says:

    Maybe the hostiles are shapeshifting three toed smoke monsters. 🙂

    I’m half joking. Didn’t the producers elude to the fact that we have been seeing the smoke monster without knowing it? At some point, this show has to jump into sci-fi with both feet or jump out.

    BTW, my computer and satelite work in 90% humidity here in MI.

  92. Lesley says:

    So were Juliet and Ethan recruited by Dharma or the Hostiles? The Hostiles are using all the Dharma stations for….? Remember when Eko and John first found the Pearl there was the remainder of a cig still burning? And what was Ben going to the Swan station for when Rousseau caught him? I’ll bet one secret they are trying to keep from the Losties is an underground route around the island via tunnels between the hatches and Otherville. They really do not want visitors to find Otherville. The big question is what is so important about Otherville and the “projects” (Karl’s phrase)that is worth dying for? I am not sure the Flame was a decoy so much as being used for some other purpose than Dharma intended (do they take turns playing farmer?). If Dharma folks were so “save the world” and so intelligent why did they start a war with the Hostiles?

  93. MasterPo says:

    [quote]And what was Ben going to the Swan station for when Rousseau caught him?[/quote]

    Ben told Locke he was on his way there to get him (Locke), if that is the truth.

  94. Erin says:

    If Ben really is Alex’s father, and Rousseau is her mother, wouldn’t she have recognized him when she “caught” him?

  95. Hammer says:

    Lesley – You’re right, it’s tough to figure out who is Dharma? The food drops are still coming from Dharma (which makes me think Dharma is still active on the main land). Everyone that isn’t a survivor wears Dharma clothing. A missing link I see is that Dez was getting food drops because his shelves were full when they found the hatch, how did he order his food if it’s done at the flame. Did Patchy order for him without Dez’s knowledge so he wouldn’t go looking for food around the island? If so, why did the Others support his pushing the button, but Ben didn’t want Locke too? Where’s the disconnect…I’m spiraling.

  96. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”43466″][quote]And what was Ben going to the Swan station for when Rousseau caught him?[/quote]

    Ben told Locke he was on his way there to get him (Locke), if that is the truth.[/quote]

    I don’t think it’s true because Michael’s list of people to bring didn’t include Locke. It was just a mental game.

  97. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”43467″]If Ben really is Alex’s father, and Rousseau is her mother, wouldn’t she have recognized him when she “caught” him?[/quote]

    True, but remember, she turned him over to the survivors. I still think she may be a plant for spying.

  98. TimmyD says:

    [quote comment=”43459″]There’s another possibility: The Good/Evil Split theme.

    A very common theme in sci-fi is ‘splitting’ a person into 2-half copies: one good, one evil (like the evil Capt. Kirk from the old Star Trek episode – can’t remember the name).

    Maybe they have a machine on the island that ‘splits’ people like this? Or there’s someplace on the island that naturally does it? That would explain why Ben and the other Others constantly say “We’re the good guys” implying there are “bad guys” somewhere.[/quote]

    Seemed rather obvious to have Kate mention that she also had met Nadia at the docks. Sayid already established that Patchy was an “Other” and that there was another somewhere. Also, this Nadia didn’t say a single word–even when discover and called-out by Kate–the only time this Nadia spoke was in Russian to Patchy.

    BTW– if Sayid had spent time in France, can we assume he would have picked up some of the language–even a little? And if so, then why the need for Shannon to translate the radio transmission in Season 1?

  99. Joel says:

    A friend of mine just suggested that the meat in Patchy’s fridge was polar bear meat…

  100. Joel says:

    Timmy, Nadia is the cat. The woman was Ms. Klue, or something like that.

  101. TimmyD says:

    [quote comment=”43482″]Timmy, Nadia is the cat. The woman was Ms. Klue, or something like that.[/quote]

    Oops. sorry. Typing too fast. Same post–just sub in “Ms. Klue” for “Nadia”

  102. Tasha says:

    TimmyD I think you mean Chloe-if that’s her name…not Nadia. Nadia is the cat.

    I still stick with the theory the island is rising. I think Dharma knows this island is what is going to be left from the rest of the world and they are in some other dimension. Like the movie “The Others” maybe some are dead and some are alive. We see polar bears because in another dimension…it’s really snowing. That is why they are stuck in a bloody snow globe! In the dimension they are in…it’s tropical.

    I swear I think way to much into this!

  103. Tasha says:

    Geez…I was wrong about the name too. Sorry.

  104. XR15 says:

    Seems like we have a rough timeline of different island occupants:

    1. Ancients. Only real evidence is the 3-toed statue. No evidence that they are still around and no evidence that they aren’t.

    2. Black Rock survivors. If any.

    3. Hostiles. Patchy indicates that they preceded the Dharma Initiative by a long time.

    4. Dharma Initiative. The de Groet’s and company. Showed up in the early 80’s, judging by their technology. Lots of info in the show and the Lost Experience about them. The Hatch system is theirs. The submarine is theirs. The communications systems are theirs. Patchy indicates that they might have been essentially eradicated. Much of their stuff seems to have been abandoned or commandeered.

    5. Rousseau’s science team. They showed up about 16 years ago. Late 80’s.

    6. Henry Gale from Minnesota. The real one. Arrived by balloon in the late 90’s or early 00’s. His license expires in ’03.

    7. Desmond arrives in the year preceding the 815 crash by sailboat and is recruited to work on the Dharma Initiative project by Kelvin (another latecomer, having served in the Gulf War in the early 90’s).

    8. Flight 815 survivors. Arrive 8/22/04.

    It seems that Patchy is saying that the Hostiles and the Dharma Initiative folks had a conflict in which the Hostiles attempted to purge the island of the Dharmas. If this is correct, the Hostiles and the Others really are the same group.

  105. Erin says:

    I thought Desmond had been there three years (before Locke et. al. entered the hatch)?

  106. Andreas says:

    You people have some really weird ideas, haha. My fever seems to have passed and I’ve watched the episode and read all your comments.

    The way I see it, The Others and the “hostiles” are the same group and Dharma is clearly aware of them. Mikhail is an Other and was referring to himself as well as the other Others when he was pretending to be Dharma and talked about the hostiles.

  107. XR15 says:

    Erin, my bad. Desmond arrived three years before–that’s right.

  108. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”43493″]You people have some really weird ideas, haha. My fever seems to have passed and I’ve watched the episode and read all your comments.

    The way I see it, The Others and the “hostiles” are the same group and Dharma is clearly aware of them. Mikhail is an Other and was referring to himself as well as the other Others when he was pretending to be Dharma and talked about the hostiles.[/quote]

    That’s exactly how I see it and I can’t understand this talk about the “Hostiles” being another independent group. Furthermore, I don’t think there are actually any Dharma people still on the island. Juliet had said that Dharma was “a long time ago”, and there was never any replacement for Kelvin or Desmond. Not sure exactly why there continues to be food drops – perhaps the agency responsible for that was never informed that Dharma ceased to exist.

  109. MasterPo says:

    A ‘war’ between Dharma (aka the Others) and the ‘hostiles’ (the indigenous population of the island) would example something else often mentioned: Disease.

    Suppose Dharma released a bio weapon on the island to kill off the local population (or at least significantly reduce their number). Even if it was genetically engineered to ‘burn out’ in a limited time there’s not way they can be sure it was all gone. That’s why Desmond and the Others kept taking the injections – as a prevention to the bio weapon that might still be around.

    A bio weapon also explains why the French woman said he husband and crew members got sick and she had to kill them (if true then Ben can’t be her husband) for fear of spreading the illness off the island.

  110. patience says:

    It seems to me that whatever purge happened, happened quickly like a quick coup, something kindof like order 66 when the sith quickly and decisively destroyed the jedi, except dharma lost and the hostiles won maybe that is the incident? But we know that the swan station was staffed up to 2001 with dharma memeber i.e Kelvin Inman so what im wondering when when was this purge? seems like it was pretty recent.

  111. Dakota says:

    I think that the reason that they keep showing Nikki is bc she is going to end up being Jacks Sister. Good thought for now.
    I’m also under the impression that Desmond is and other and he left(think he was off the hook for the button pushing) but they made him go back to spy on the Losites.

  112. Jonno says:

    [quote comment=”43490″]Seems like we have a rough timeline of different island occupants:

    1. Ancients. Only real evidence is the 3-toed statue. No evidence that they are still around and no evidence that they aren’t.

    2. Black Rock survivors. If any.

    3. Hostiles. Patchy indicates that they preceded the Dharma Initiative by a long time.

    4. Dharma Initiative. The de Groet’s and company. Showed up in the early 80’s, judging by their technology. Lots of info in the show and the Lost Experience about them. The Hatch system is theirs. The submarine is theirs. The communications systems are theirs. Patchy indicates that they might have been essentially eradicated. Much of their stuff seems to have been abandoned or commandeered.

    5. Rousseau’s science team. They showed up about 16 years ago. Late 80’s.

    6. Henry Gale from Minnesota. The real one. Arrived by balloon in the late 90’s or early 00’s. His license expires in ’03.

    7. Desmond arrives in the year preceding the 815 crash by sailboat and is recruited to work on the Dharma Initiative project by Kelvin (another latecomer, having served in the Gulf War in the early 90’s).

    8. Flight 815 survivors. Arrive 8/22/04.

    [/quote]

    This is really useful, good work. Using this we can guess a few things – if we believe that Ben was born on the island (and we may as well, he’s so charming…), and use Jack’s estimate of about 40 years old, then what group does he belong to? The Hostiles, by the looks of things, or maybe the Black Rock survivors left descendents and he’s related to that somehow.

    And then there’s the whole time-travel can of worms. I hope the creators have some sort of whiteboard that they write all this down on.

    I seriously cannot wait for Danielle’s flashback, hopefully that’ll clear up some things. And if it doesn’t I’ll seriously consider maybe not watching the next episode. Starting next month. Unless the trailer promises something good. Or Sawyer makes an appearance. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, ABC!

  113. HurleysButtcrack says:

    Does anybody think it strange that they use a submarine to get to the island? A very expensive proposition unless this is the only way to get there.

  114. HurleysButtcrack says:

    Sayid better put the screws to Patchy once they get back to the beach. Make that sucker talk!

    I hope Sayid didn’t change his mind about torture, just because he saw firecracker kitty in the jungle.

  115. Laura says:

    okay first of all… Mikhail was seen in the flame, on the tvs when losties were in the Pearl. But this happened BEFORE the purple light in the sky, so Sayid’s theory about this being the reason Mikhail and Klugh were at the flame. Communication must have been before the purple in the sky.

    secondly, if the others are so intelligent, and can collect so much information about the losties (like how Juliette knew that Jack would never let a patient die), then Mikhail knew that by telling John the chess game was hard to win he would try and win. By doing this Locke destroyed the losties only chance. Did you see the creepy look on his face when the flame blew up? He definitely knew what was going to happen

  116. Jack Johnson says:

    People have been speculating that Patchy and Ms. Klugh were there to ‘protect’ the computer and the documents, but I don’t think this is right, partly because if they had wanted to stop communication with the outside world they wouldn’t have had the world series, and they would have just destroyed the building.

    Instead, I think that this building was created by Dharma and is part of the Other’s link to the outside world. After the sky turned purple the Other’s lost contact with the outside world (as was explained as the reason why Ben didn’t get surgery off the island). They then sent Patchy and Ms. Klugh to the flame in order to try to figure out how to reconnect communication.

    Evidence? If they had been living in that hatch for a while, Patchy would have disabled the cameras long ago. However, he first made it to the Flame about when Locke and company were in the Pearl–the first thing he’d do is disable the cameras. As you could see from this episode there is no real way for him to have been able to tell he was being watched, but he knew the potential and turned it off as soon as he got there.

    Mrs. Klugh was probably in the underground part, reading up on the Dharma hatches in order to try to understand a way to reverse the affects of the purple sky and hatch implosion. That was the reason they came to the Flame– they had no real reason to live there indefinitely.

  117. Laura says:

    Mikhail was at the flame BEFORE the sky turned purple!!! Eko and John saw Mikhail in the ‘?’ episode, episode 21 of season 2. The hatch blew up, and the sky turned purple, in the season 2 finale, AFTER Mikhail was seen! This means Mikhail either communication was lost BEFORE the sky turned purple, or Mikhail was there for another reason.

  118. Becky says:

    I overall liked the episode very much. I was glad Kate punched that woman. Hee hee. Is it me or is Hurley getting bigger and bigger? I hope that Jorge Garcia has a good nutritionist to help him lose weight after all of this. The whole ping pong thing really made no sense to me and that new couple are just sooooooooooooo annoying! Where did Sayid get that map? I can’t remember. Does anyone wonder if the Russians in the plane hired by Penny have something to do with good ol’ Patchy? I can’t believe Sayid poured boiling oil on a woman…holy crap, that’s bad! Good flashback, though. Locke really needs to stop walking into peoples’ homes and just playing with their computers, honestly. Overall good episode but, of course, more questions than answers.

    Oh and I think the purge was the other way around: the hostiles or Others attacked the Dharma scientists.

  119. Jack Johnson says:

    [quote comment=”43551″]Mikhail was at the flame BEFORE the sky turned purple!!! Eko and John saw Mikhail in the ‘?’ episode, episode 21 of season 2. The hatch blew up, and the sky turned purple, in the season 2 finale, AFTER Mikhail was seen! This means Mikhail either communication was lost BEFORE the sky turned purple, or Mikhail was there for another reason.[/quote]

    I don’t think that this is correct…remember that Locke and Eko went to the Pearl one time by themselves in ‘?’…this is what made Locke lose his faith in pushing the button. However, they came back later with Sayid and Nickki and Paulo in the third season after the hatch implosion.

  120. fencepost says:

    [quote comment=”43276″]I was expecting something ridiculously awesome and game-changing so I was a little disappointed but overall I liked it a lot. The flashback was really compelling and when Candle said “Enter 77” I freaked out when I realized what was going to happen. Same when they started speaking Russian.

    The dialogue is still pretty weak, and they’ve softened up Sawyer to the point where “The Long Con” seems like an unneccessary episode. Locke seems to be pretty dumb in this episode, but judging from what’s coming up, maybe we’ll learn that he’s acting dumb to further his own interests? (He just destroyed a huge chance for them to get off the island, which is very in-character for Locke Season 1 at least.)[/quote]

  121. Tasha says:

    Yeah they saw the guy with the eye patch after the hatch was destroyed. It was the episode that Echo died.

    I just don’t understand why they still drop off Dharma supplies. Surely they know that everyone in Dharma is dead.

    That leaves us…either

    1. The “Others” really are part of Dharma. Whether they were Dharma’s experiments or the actual workers.
    2. The “others” are acting like they are Dharma to the outside world.
    3. The Others KNOW something that can’t get out and they are blackmailing Dharma.

    I read an article today about how the military possible has a tropical island hidden in the arctic somewhere. It’s a rumor and has been thought but there is no solid proof. My thing is…how do you have a tropical island hidden UNDER the arctic? I guess though, an idead is all you need to make a show about something…..
    3.

  122. chewap says:

    “It was just a mental game.”

    Nice one Hammer. I love your comments.
    I just think that Locke knows more than the other survivors…If you look again the first season there is always Locke and he knows it all. Now you know all the facts and if you look back at the first episodes you will see that Locke said some things that happend in the second season…Maybe I’m wrong (o yes I’m wrong :)) but can it be that one of our Losties knows something about the island?

    and Locke said to Walt: It’s just a Game!
    Jack said: We’ll have a problem with Locke!

  123. danny says:

    Am I wrong in thinking that Mikhail introduced himself as “Mikhail Bakunin”? Bakunin was a 19th century Russian intellectual; a founder of modern anarchism (as wikipedia puts it). Am I wrong?

  124. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”43497″]Not sure exactly why there continues to be food drops – perhaps the agency responsible for that was never informed that Dharma ceased to exist.[/quote]

    Because someone was still ordering them. What agency would keep making food drops for years without getting paid?

  125. DBM says:

    Love the blog. Long time reader, first time poster.

    Couple of thoughts:
    On the topic of Rousseau being an “Other plant,” it’s interesting, but I’m pretty skeptical. Admittedly, she acted very strangely this week, but that’s certainly not without precedent. In my view however, there are several reasons why she is unlikely to be an Other. 1) She was shooting blindly at Kate, Sayid and Locke as recently as this week. Not the kind of thing you do, if you’re spying/tracking/gathering information on people. 2) She saved Claire from Ethan, and seemed legitimately surprised when she returned to that hatch (where Kate found the makeup, beards, etc.) with Kate and Claire later on (whatever happened to that Hatch, anyway??) 3) When she netted Henry/Ben, she could have just netted him then turned him over to Sayid, but she’d also shot him with an arrow. I know the Others are tough, but that seems like an extraordinary length to go to to make the capture seem real. 4) Early on, when she captured Sayid, she could have killed him, but seemed to soften up as he pleaded. Very un-Other-like. 5) With the exception of Klugh and Patchy, we saw all of the key others (Ben, Juliet, Goodwin, Ethan, Tom, etc.) in the suburban setting earlier this season. Rousseau has never been seen with them. 5) Can’t explain it, but she doesn’t “look” like an Other (more disheveled, not as sinister…).

    On another note, a couple of weeks ago, Jack said something to Ben when he was following up on Ben’s surgery and there was an infection (if I recall correctly) about the need for Ben’s group to have a surgeon. Then Ben snapped back that they’d had a surgeon and his name with Ethan. Fine. However, early this season, before the break, Ben says to Jack, while Jack is in the shark tank, something about fate. Jack, of course, points out that he doesn’t believe in fate. Ben then asks how bringing a spinal surgeon to an island in the middle of nowhere that happens to be home to a guy with a tumor on his spine could be anything other than fate. My question: If Ben had Ethan to do the surgery before the plane crash, why did he need Jack at all (i.e. it ain’t fate!)?

    Finally, on a broad point, I’m getting a bit worried about the time travel/multiple dimensions of time thing. I’m not too into sci-fi, but anyone who’s seen Back to the Future more than once has probably noticed the challenges that time travel poses in terms of crossing paths with yourself, creating alternate realities upon return to the present, etc. Above, someone pointed out that Sayid should probably have known French when Shannon had to do the translation of the Rousseau recording (good point, but not a requirement of living in France. Outside of America, it’s quite common for non-native speakers to move to Europe and learn English, which virtually everyone speaks, and retain their own tongue, rather than the local language). Someone else followed by noting that perhaps Sayid lived in Paris in another “time-pocket.” Long story short, this seems a) a bit convenient and b) like it could get exceedingly confusing (even moreso than some of the inexplicable things we’ve seen from Lost so far). Any thoughts?

  126. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”43575″]”It was just a mental game.”

    Nice one Hammer. I love your comments.
    [/quote]

    I can’t tell if your serious or sarcastic. But I do think it was obvious that Ben was playing a mental game when he told Locke he was coming for him. Locke would have been on Michael’s list if Ben really was coming for Locke…right?

  127. Laura says:

    sorry for the mistake before, 😦 silly me.

    okay… so I agree with what everyone has been saying that that wasn’t the real flame that was blown up. If it had been the flame why would Klugh care about being killed? If the secret had been found there would have been no need for her to hide the secret.

    obviously the others have great resources for learning about people. They KNEW, and Mikhail knew that John Locke does not like to be challenged. He introduced the chess game as some sort of fail-safe… the only way Locke would have enough time to play it all the way through would be if something happened to Mikhail/Klugh (exception, when Mikhail was distracted by Kate). This way is something happened to Mikhail/Klugh, they could ensure that John would accidentally blow the flame, including the real flame. Mikhail had a noticeable smile on his face when the flame blew.

    I think Rouseau is somehow connected to the others. Yes there are a lot of things that set her apart from the others, but she must have some sort of history there. How can you believe that for 16 years she would never try and contact the other people on the island, she would have had no way of knowing they were bad… maybe some of her team ended up being taken like some of the survivors. She was very insistent that the survivors should not believe anything “Henry Gale (Ben)” said. She also wanted to kill Mikhail very badly. I think she knows a lot more than we think.

  128. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”43618″]Love the blog. Long time reader, first time poster.[/quote]

    And a great first post! I think your arguments pretty much show that Rousseau isn’t an Other.

    Regarding Ethan, I’m not sure if Ben called him a Doctor or a Surgeon, but either way, maybe he wasn’t a spinal surgeon while Jack is.

  129. Hammer says:

    Another point for the other side: Danielle and Patchy have the same basic story…I’m the only person alive from my group…the “hostiles” did it…I’ve been here a long time…if I stay away I have no troubles with them…

    Hmmmmmmm.

  130. XtraCripsy says:

    If people don’t know already about the videos on YouTube from the Lost Experience (search “Alvar Hanso”):

    1. Hanso explains that the numbers are the core values of the Valenzetti equation which show that humankind is near destruction. The scientists on the island, are supposed to transmit the new numbers when they find a way to alter the environment or human factors, and thereby save the world. The Dharma I. has unlimited funds, and food and medicine drops will continue into perpetuity.

    2. Mittelwerk, in a secret video taping by Rachel Blake, says that Dharma has failed. It could not change the core values, therefore “we have to take radical action.” He talks about using a vaccine for a specious viral outbreak on other islands. The vaccine is meant for “hitting precise genetic targets we have engineered into the virus.”

    3. Rachel shows up at Alvar Hanso house where he says that she is his daughter, and that he is being kept prisoner in his own home by Mittelwerk who has taken over Dharma and has killed millions, and worse. He wants Rachel to reveal the truth. Did Rachel contact Penny?

    I would guess that the Hostiles know the DNA makeup of all the Losties, based on the missing hair brushes in the luggage. Ben said that Locke was one of the good ones. Was he referring to his DNA? (I know he probably didn’t have a hairbrush.) But the test would’ve been done when his kidney was matched for his father.

  131. Hammer says:

    Yeah, but what I’m saying is…if all the Dharma people are gone, why would Dharma keep sending drops to the people that ruined their project? There has to be a current Dharma supported group on the island.

  132. XtraCripsy says:

    [quote comment=”43656″]Yeah, but what I’m saying is…if all the Dharma people are gone, why would Dharma keep sending drops to the people that ruined their project? There has to be a current Dharma supported group on the island.[/quote]

    Dharma was taken over by the corrupt Mittelwerk, who also hired Juliette for his eugenics project. The Hostiles are his people.

    When Patchy said that the Others were on the island long before Dharma, maybe he was referring to the descendants of the Black Rock or the Four-toed people?

    And who says the island has to be a place? Maybe it’s a VR computer simulation meant to test the various manipulations to change the Valenzetti equation? It might be the reason Bea and Patchy weren’t afraid of “dying.” Maybe there is no time travel (VR is more plausible), and it was just that the EMP knocked Desmond out of this simulation, and into another one where the jewelry store lady had to prepare him to re-enter the one he left?

    I bet Locke in onto this game, but he won’t tell the other Losties. It would explain how he was able to walk again, Kate’s horse, Jack’s Pa, etc.

  133. Hammer says:

    Leave it to a guy to notice this…but on the girle mags that Hugo gave back to Sawyer…the same story header is on two of the mags. NUN TURNED STRIPPER SHE’S AN ANGEL

    Easter egg or lack of prop creativity?

  134. theOtherdave says:

    I am overwhelmed with information from everyone and can never seem to formulate a reasonable theory for myself about what the heck is going on-if my mind was a hatch it just imploded.

    But my gut tells me Rousseau is going to be the key to answers. Because I keep asking myself why she is ALWAYS paranoid? Why does she always talk cryptically? She has obviously survived all the “traps” and “pitfalls” the island has (this includes the Others, Dharma, hostiles, Island Whisperers) so it is understandable that she would be drive herself paranoid, but when she learns of these NEW castaways (our Losties) and has seen their same suvival instincts, I would IMAGINE that she would then believe that the Losties are on her side and maybe offer her story of how she has survived and what she knows about the rest of the island.

  135. Hammer says:

    I agree otherDave, I don’t think she’s been alone for 16 years just sitting in her hide out waiting for people to chance by…then ask if they saw her kid.

  136. XtraCripsy says:

    I think when all is said and done, this series will be seen as borrowing a lot from the matrix trilogy. Except, in Lost we’re seeing things from the perspective of those stuck in this island matrix. Nobody’s come up with a decent explanation of the smoke monster or how these people survived the breakup of an airliner in midair.

    It’s all a simulacrum. Forget about time travel. They can’t even do it easily on Star Trek, but they do have a Holodeck. Locke knows about it. That’s why he wasn’t afraid in confronting the smoke monster, which he saw and didn’t tell the Losties about it. Why not? He wants to keep the game going so he can fulfill his dream of stomping around in the jungle.

    People are analyzing the specifics, but what about the big picture? This is like the Truman Show meets the Matrix combined with Survivor.

  137. Hammer says:

    That is what this is all about! They don’t give us enough figure out the big picture. If they did, this whole experience would be over and I’m not ready for it to be over.

  138. XtraCripsy says:

    Hammer, I understand your point. It’s a delicate balance for the producers to keep revealing stuff to make the show interesting, while hiding enough to keep people guessing.

    But the problem is, this series is becoming so complex that new viewers can’t possibly catchup. The Lost review that they made completely ignored Michael and Walt.

    And, they are adding new characters while letting others just disappear. I really don’t want to see any more flashbacks with Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Locke, Hurley, Sun & Jin, Charlie or Sayid. They give them a new hairdo or a wig and we’re supposed to believe this.

  139. MKS says:

    It makes sense that the Others are trying to find/ become/ already are geneticaly superior, or at least protected people. That is why they took Claire and immunized Aaron when he was still in the womb. We’ll see if they do the same with Sun as her pregnancy progresses. I also have a feeling that there will be another pregnancy coming- after all, there are no pills or protection available on the island, and most of these people are healty, young, and attractive. Human nature has to ome into play, right?

  140. scottc13 says:

    I think the reason Russo was afraid to approach the flame with the losties was that she was scared whomever occupied the station would recognize her. My thought is she was probably an other at one time and was exiled from the group (possibly marked like Juliet) but forced to leaver her daugher behind. This could explain how she know so much about the communication tower, but is left alone by the others. Does anyone still have the transcript of her recorded loop? Maybe that could make a little more sense now. I don’t think she is part of a scientific team at all.

  141. Hammer says:

    I hear ya, but that’s LOST.

    BTW, if you’re talking about Rose, she hasn’t disappeared. The actess took another job and she is/was unavailble for a period of time. I heard that we will likely see her again sometime this season? True Andreas?

  142. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”43694″]It makes sense that the Others are trying to find/ become/ already are geneticaly superior, or at least protected people. That is why they took Claire and immunized Aaron when he was still in the womb. We’ll see if they do the same with Sun as her pregnancy progresses. I also have a feeling that there will be another pregnancy coming- after all, there are no pills or protection available on the island, and most of these people are healty, young, and attractive. Human nature has to ome into play, right?[/quote]

    Not to mention the “controlled” mating of Kate and Sawyer.

  143. MKS says:

    On another note. Some people last week wondered why the driver of the van was left where he was and no one came to look for him. Since he was real Dharma, he might just have been left by the Others,as they did not care what happened to the Dharma people (assuming that the Others purged the Island of Dharma). Also, he might have been preserved/ mummified by whatever disease was released?

  144. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”43699″]On another note. Some people last week wondered why the driver of the van was left where he was and no one came to look for him. Since he was real Dharma, he might just have been left by the Others,as they did not care what happened to the Dharma people (assuming that the Others purged the Island of Dharma). Also, he might have been preserved/ mummified by whatever disease was released?[/quote]

    Ah yes, great point we forgot about. That might be it.

  145. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”43696″]I hear ya, but that’s LOST.

    BTW, if you’re talking about Rose, she hasn’t disappeared. The actess took another job and she is/was unavailble for a period of time. I heard that we will likely see her again sometime this season? True Andreas?[/quote]

    Yeah, that is my understanding of it. I think Damon said that L. Scott Caldwell is or has been acting in a play and doing some other stuff while Sam Anderson who plays Bernard has had other commitments, so it has been hard to schedule both of them at the same time.

  146. Mabry says:

    Is Rosseau a plant from the Others?
    She claims to be a scientist – but all of the people who have an occupation before the island, are shown continuing that occupation to some extent. Jack is a doctor, Jin is a fisherman’s son and can fish, Sayid the soldier/torturer, Sawyer the con artist, etc etc… I know that Rosseau is not technically a survivor or a “Lostie,” but I have never seen her do anything scientific. What kind of scientist is she? It seems weird that I don’t remember her doing anything that would back up her story.

    Then again, when Ben was a plant, he had a very complex story, well thought out, with lots of details. We don’t know any of Rosseau’s details, she hasn’t given them to the survivors. I think she’s telling the truth, personally.

    I think that when Locke pressed 77, he thought he would be able to contact the outside world. That’s what I thought would happen – that he’d somehow be connected to the Dharma people left in the real world.

    Speaking of Dharma people. Last night we find Patch who claims to be the last survivor of the Dharma initiative, which makes most of the commenters believe that they are two separate groups. However, a few weeks ago we had the Juliet flashback in which we see her recruited by a company to go to the island. So… I mean I guess my question is what are the chances that two different companies are sending scientists to the same island? I am not convinced that they are two separate groups.

    Lastly. The horse tied up outside of the Flame. He really was tacked up as though someone was planning to leave soon – his saddle was still on, and he was tied up. A horse will only stay tied up for so long before pulling back and breaking the rope/leather/what have you. They also get plenty uncomfortable when the tack is left on- generally you only leave a horse tacked up like that if you’re intending to ride again very soon.
    Plus… the horse could probably have made the swim from the little island to the bigger island, but he would have been incredibly tired. To then walk pretty far into the island, away from the beach, I think the horse would be downright exhausted. I think the horse did give someone a lift – from nearby.

    I may be making a lot out of nothing, but I work in the horse industry and I was excited to see him there. 🙂

  147. MKS says:

    I think that Dharma was taken over in a sort of coup ‘de tat by the Mittlewerk branch- as opposed to the Hanso people- and the Others (who either are, or are working with the Mittlewerk people). Thus the recruiting is done in the name of Dharma, although the current project has very little to do with what the Dharma initiative was original supposed to do.
    Another question. Would a horse just stand there when there are shots being fired? Would it have to be used to hearing such loud noise close by in order not to react?

  148. mikey says:

    does anyone think smokey is the “virus”
    what about locke being an other

  149. XR15 says:

    [quote comment=”43519″]

    This is really useful, good work. Using this we can guess a few things – if we believe that Ben was born on the island (and we may as well, he’s so charming…), and use Jack’s estimate of about 40 years old, then what group does he belong to? The Hostiles, by the looks of things, or maybe the Black Rock survivors left descendents and he’s related to that somehow.[/quote]

    Interesting point–it relates to something else I’ve been thinking about since the Juliet episode [Not in Portland]: Because of the overly aged reproductive system of one of the Others/Hostiles, either,
    1. the Others/Hostiles are much older than they look–only their reproductive systems have aged normally.
    2. Extended exposure to the Island screws up your reproductive system

    If #1 is the case, some of the Others/Hostiles could well be from the Black Rock directly.

  150. spinpapi says:

    [quote comment=”43727″]does anyone think smokey is the “virus”
    what about locke being an other[/quote]

    wow what a great idea. how to explain that it doesn’t kill Locke though? and didn’t kill Eko the first time it encountered him?

    tons of interesting stuff in the comments to this post…more than I remember in a long, long time. this really was a food-for-thought episode.

    Eyepatch McRussian guy = awesome

    firecracker kitty = ditto

    that we need a cat flashback = I couldn’t agree more! and how about a horse, Jack’s dad, and Vincent flashback? woof, woof!!!

    seriously though…XtraCrispy: you have some great ideas. esp about Desmond’s flashback (see 131), though I believe the producers ruled out VR.

    we’re definitely in for a lot of fun over the next few weeks. look how few “LOST SUX!” comments there were this time around? as expected. =]

  151. mikey says:

    I don’t think the flame contacts the outside world. It controls smokey and whoever controls smokey controls the island

  152. mikey says:

    Somebody said something about underground tunnels leading to the other hatches, maybe that door in the gun room of the swan was one of those doors

  153. Chris Weir says:

    I believe by pressing 77 it is going to knock out some of the communications on the other island …tv,electricity,etc. The others/hostiles rely on the dharma’s facilities as a tool to monitor parts of the island.

    But the question I have – does anyone believe this possible idea – the scientists arrived on the island with the intentions of the dharma inititative, but decided to start their own life (other/hostiles). The scientists abandoned the initative and ben led a following towards a new way of life. I am sure this theory has been already been made, but it is the only one that makes sense to me.

  154. cazzie says:

    im thinking that locke might be in with the others too. when ben was locked up in the hatch he told locke that he was coming to get him. i think locke is trying to prove himself to ben and by blowing up the station helped his case. maybe im crazy but it seems like locke is doing it on purpose(like on season 1 when he stopped their attempt to start a comminicating device) Locke is the missing link.

  155. BambooRaft says:

    I Loooooove you guys! I joined another Lost fan website message board the other day and posted my questions – I have been slightly disappointed in the recent shows. I had one person log on and say “find a lost hater site and go to it” and another say “i knew I shouldn’t have read this or responded”. You guys are saying what I was saying and you’re supporting each other! YAY! A Lost Friendly website! I knew I wasn’t going crazy thinking about the character integrity of Locke or Rousseau! I just knew it! But we’re not the writers of the show so what I’ve come to realize is to have faith in them – they promised (in the DVD disc set) that they will have a great ending to this show and it will not disappoint, so I have to have faith in them.

    As for DJ (comment 20) about the “stupid people”. Yes, sometimes it just points to how stupid characters can be, but then, there wouldn’t be that show or that situation and the story wouldn’t continue. Have faith DJ. Have you ever driven your car (assuming you have one) with your coffee, or something else on top of it, forgetting it was there (or some other silly stupid thing)? Just think that if it didn’t happen, everything in your universe would change. Every milisecond changes the course of your life, even the dumb things people do. Yes, it’s just a show, but the writers have lead us this far, there are consequences to everything. Even dumb things (like Locke pushing 77).

    Ok, so I was on a bamboo raft, sailing out into the ocean, leaving the island behind, but now after reading all of your comments regarding this episode, it’s drawing me back! You just can’t leave it. 1…2…3…4…5!

  156. Tasha says:

    Maybe some people really are “stupid.” Maybe we should say “ignorant.” Maybe that is what the others are looking for. If they are genetically making a better race….then they want naturally born leaders. When Ben was with Locke he realized Locke isn’t much of a leader because he lets Jack tell him what to do. It may not even be “born leaders.” They may be watching who makes the best decisions in certain curcumstances. Who can live on without anybody else to hold their hand? THose are the kind of things people look for when creating a better race. They would look down or the stupid people. In my theorys they also look down on Australians.

  157. Destroyer Of Worlds says:

    No offense to anyone, but I think alot of people are just over-thinking all these theories.

    Sure the show lets you think up these possiblities but every week there is a new suspect in the “they are an others spy” case. I seriously doubt any of the losties will be an others spy. In fact I’m willing to put money on it. (this doesn’t count when jack comes back and has been lured to the other side)

    The closest we get to a spy is Rousseau. Even then she seems more of an Others cast-off than a spy.
    I still find it puzzling that both her and the others call her daughter Alex.

    Personally I don’t know any kidnappers that stop in mid-napping to ask the mother what the childs name is. So could Ben be the real father, not just a surrogate??

  158. Destroyer Of Worlds says:

    [quote comment=”43842″]In my theorys they also look down on Australians.[/quote]

    I’m trying to work out if I should be offended or not

  159. BambooRaft says:

    Destoyer of Worlds wrote: I still find it puzzling that both her and the others call her daughter Alex.

    Personally I don’t know any kidnappers that stop in mid-napping to ask the mother what the childs name is. So could Ben be the real father, not just a surrogate??
    ______________________________________________
    Totally thinking about this one…good point!

    And could Danielle and Mikhail both have been part of the expadition (meaning Ben would’ve been, too) and that’s why Danielle went waiting by the river because she already did know about the Flame and Mikhail, which she knew would not lead her to her daughter?

  160. Andreas says:

    Both Rousseau and The Others call Alex “Alex” because that’s what her name is in the script. I doubt that the writers have thought about the fact that the kidnappers wouldn’t know the name of the baby unless they asked the mother.

  161. Toni says:

    thank you andreas for your voice of reason here. and if one needs a further answer, i suppose it could always be explained that they probably spied on danielle before taking her baby and heard her talking out loud to the baby, using the name Alex.

  162. Toni says:

    it seems to me that this episode explained the following:
    the others and the hostiles are the same.

    The hostiles have existed on the island for ‘a very long time.’ perhaps they even existed as indigenous people from the 4 toe statue (who knows *shrugs and throws up hands*)
    in the 70’s or 80’s dharma came along and set up experiments and infrastructure on the island.

    There was obviously an ongoing conflict with the hostiles, as evidenced by the armories in the hatches. this conflict may have involved segments of dharma trying to ‘purge’ the island of the hostiles. the end result was that dharma was purged. EXCEPT the two men in the swan station

    The hostiles (and maybe some remaining members of dharma who joined the hostiles) then inherited all of dharma’s infrastructure: the barracks (the charming suburban village), the submarine, the communications satellite at the flame, and all the remains of the dharma experiments stations.

    Patchy was telling the truth when he said he liked being isolated. he was therefore sent to the flame station to moniter their communications hub as well as to read up on the dharma stuff in the basement.

    After the sky turned purple ms klugh arrived at the flame to help fix the communications.

  163. Toni says:

    unanswered questions now brought up from this theory:

    how a presumably primitive indigenous people could become powerful enough to purge the well armed dharma folk from the island.

    How the indigenous people would then get so completely immersed in present day american culture… even watching baseball games? i mean, yeah, they had the satellite capabilities, but it just doesn’t add up to me…

    how they then gained the funding to not only find juliette before she ever published her research, but to also fund her ongoing research on infertility.

  164. Toni says:

    also:
    according to lost experience, dharma was completely ended in the late 90’s due to many research teams gone missing.

    therefore, patchy read in his dharma manuals about the swan station and realized that there were two guys still in there pressing a button. they were so isolated that they went unaware of the purge. patchy and the losties decide they don’t want to have to press the button; let the guys in there keep doing it. feed their ignorance of dharma’s demise by making sure their supply drop still happens. remember none of the survivors ever heard a plane fly overhead… so maybe a plane DIDN”T fly overhead. instead, the Others acquired food via the sub and they put it on a palette and put a parachute on it, just like it’s supposed to look like…

    ok, so maybe this theory is too far out there?

  165. Toni says:

    oops, typo in last post “patchy and the losties decide they don’t want to have to press the button”

    should be “patchy and the Others”

  166. Andreas says:

    All good ideas Toni. What I’m a bit confused about is – if the Others are not Dharma, which they now appear not to be, then why did they recruit Juliet?

    In reality I suppose it’s not that weird. It’s just that I figured that Mittelos Bioscience was a front for Dharma.

    Mikhail could be lying though.

  167. patience says:

    If the Dharma scientist tried to purge their ranks and get rid of the hostiles and lost, leaving the others as the dominant faction on the island, maybe mittelos bioscience is a company started my thomas mittelwerk in his attempt to keep his research going after the Dharma iniative failed, that might be their intrest in recruiting Juliet. Kinda like evil Dharma reborn(lol). Any thoughts?

  168. patience says:

    by not my

  169. patience says:

    I think the only thing Mikhail lied about was being a Member of Dharma.

  170. mb says:

    First of all i think that dharma is assicated with the government or a “higher” form government or organization. It seems too eccentric that a bright group of scientist are the only people that know about the island. Second, Patchy seemed to shocked about the plane crash when syede(sp?) told him about it…If he was with that women wouldnt he know about about a plane crash? Thrid, The creators need to wrap this shit up becuase its getting to confusing to follow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

  171. Toni says:

    @mb–patchy seemed shocked to hear about the plane crash because he was playing a role–pretending to be an ignorant isolated dharma worker.

    @andreas–yes, mikhail definitely could be lying… but when he said that it was all true except him being in dharma, i really felt like that was the writers speaking to the audience. i think they have been trying to streamline their plots to make it more accessible to the average viewer and regain some ratings.
    and regarding juliette, well, i guess i assumed they recruited her because the dharma experiments on the island had somehow left them sterile. but again, one of the unresolved questions in my theory is how they got funding for juliette’s research. If only we knew who was behind mittelos… and if only we knew what the big secret is that the Others are so willing to die for…

    And to further confuse things a bit :)… i do think that during the conflict some dharma people must have merged with the hostiles… don’t forget that Tom flagrantly quoted from hanso and that hanso’s picture was in the brainwash sequence… ach!

  172. soularheart says:

    [quote comment=”43617″][quote comment=”43497″]Not sure exactly why there continues to be food drops – perhaps the agency responsible for that was never informed that Dharma ceased to exist.[/quote]

    Because someone was still ordering them. What agency would keep making food drops for years without getting paid?[/quote]

    Maybe the food is dropped from another dimension of time in which the Dharma still exists? I know its farfetched but with all the time twists on the show it might be possible!lol

    And another thing, the patchy later on in the flame explains that he once made a deal with the hostiles not to cross the so called line on the island, and strangely enough earlier on only seconds after shooting Sayid he accused him for breaking that deal and trespassing! Even though Sayid didn’t know anything about the so called truth, as if the patchy honestly believed that he was a hostile! I mean in retrospect, knowing that patchy himself is a hostile, that sudden cry and accusation sounded too honest to be premeditated! Unless he was expecting their arrival!

  173. Meg says:

    This is a little off topic of the episode, but while reading through comments I realized something. Both Dez and Juliet came to the island about three years ago. What if there’s some kind of shield around the island, and when they brought Juliet to the island, they had to turn off the shield. While it was turned off, on another part of the island, Desmonds boat finds its way to the beach, through the shield thats down. This would explain why Kelvin was out there at the time that he landed on the beach. Kelvin, assuming that he’s an other, would know that it was down to allow Juliet, and was on watch for that area of the island, just in case anyone else got through.
    Or I could just be over thinking this.

  174. Hammer says:

    It’s possible, but I think his arrival was planned because of the connection to Whidmore’s daughter.

  175. Hurley's Dad says:

    When Desmond first surfaced on the island and Kelvin “found” him, weren’t there several people in yellow suits dragging him to the hatch? That seems to be my recollection. Who/where are the other people?

    Why didn’t Rousseau think it was possible for Alex to be in the Flame? I don’t get why her first thought wasn’t “Alex could be here”.

  176. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”44182″]When Desmond first surfaced on the island and Kelvin “found” him, weren’t there several people in yellow suits dragging him to the hatch? That seems to be my recollection. Who/where are the other people?

    Why didn’t Rousseau think it was possible for Alex to be in the Flame? I don’t get why her first thought wasn’t “Alex could be here”.[/quote]

    Desmond vision was blurred and doubled, there was only
    one person.

    Rousseau IMO didn’t ask because she knew Alex wasn’t their. Further supports my theory that she is an other or has an aliance with the others.

  177. Toeknee says:

    Regarding how Rousseau “knew” Alex wasn’t at the Flame Station – when Kate left Hydra island a day or two prior, Alex was still there. So as far as they (Kate and Rousseau) know, she’s still on that island, along with Jack.

  178. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”44186″]Regarding how Rousseau “knew” Alex wasn’t at the Flame Station – when Kate left Hydra island a day or two prior, Alex was still there. So as far as they (Kate and Rousseau) know, she’s still on that island, along with Jack.[/quote]

    I agree with Hammer….further supports a spy/plant theory.

    I believe Kate/Locke/Sayid were going to the north side of the island based on Karl’s info about the Others living on THIS island.

  179. ro-zgee says:

    [quote comment=”43918″]unanswered questions now brought up from this theory:

    how a presumably primitive indigenous people could become powerful enough to purge the well armed dharma folk from the island.

    How the indigenous people would then get so completely immersed in present day american culture… even watching baseball games? i mean, yeah, they had the satellite capabilities, but it just doesn’t add up to me…

    how they then gained the funding to not only find juliette before she ever published her research, but to also fund her ongoing research on infertility.[/quote]

    Maybe the indigenous people on the island are actually from the past and the future. They might be guardians to the fold into time that’s on the island(or whatever!) and so have access to all time. Maybe they know something about the future (the demise of the human race?) and so are the “good guys” because they’re trying to change the fate of mankind. Maybe fertility has something to do with it ala “Children of Men” or “Handmaiden’s Tale” where the human race can no longer reproduce. Kind of significant and maybe not so coincidental that both these hostiles and the Dharma Initiative are working along the same lines, and so for awhile they co-existed on the island. But something happened (the incident?) and they decided to purge.
    So, the lady in the jewelry store was actually one of them, making sure Desmond was on the right path.
    Still don’t know how the smoke monster would fit into all of this – unless he’s the advanced security system from the future helping to guard access to the time warp? Why he would have it out for Eko I don’t know!!

  180. Toeknee says:

    To Hurley’s Dad and Hammer:

    I understand that Kate told Rousseau that she wants to find the Others’ camp on the main island, but I’m not convinced Kate expects to find Alex there. I was thinking she planned on threatening/blackmailing the Others on the main island into arranging for Jack to be released (although I’m sure it’s not a very well thought-out plan). She mentioned Alex to Rousseau primarily so Rousseau would agree to help her find the Others’ camp. Kate knows Jack was being held captive on the other island – I don’t think she’d expect that they would bring him back to the main island – the other island is a perfect prison, with little to no chance of escape. And if he’s there, they’d have to have guards there. When Kate and Sawyer left that island, Juliet told Alex she couldn’t go with them. And that all happened within the last couple days of island time. To me, all of this adds up to Kate assuming that Alex is still on the other island. However, I don’t think Kate has actually concerned herself with where Alex is, she’s focused on getting Jack back, and she doesn’t have any reason to believe he’s on the main island. (I realize this is not a very significant plot point – they will find what they find – I just wanted to explain my thinking)

    As far as Rousseau being a plant/spy…I can’t completely rule that out, but to me it seems unlikely. If she was part of the Others, she would know about Alex, let alone be part of her life. And her actions/reactions all along have seemed genuine in that she wants to find her daughter (for example, her statement at the end of the “Maternity Leave” episode – “you are not the only one who didn’t find what they were looking for”). Also, in Maternity Leave, she seemed genuinely surprised to see the Medical Hatch. And all of the other things we’ve learned about her – booby traps she has set all over the island, her voice on the transmission that’s been playing for 16 years, her fortress where she took Sayid to after catching him – all of that makes me think she’s living independent of the Others. Like she said in Enter 77, she has survived for 16 years by NOT exploring too much (as opposed to Locke who has put his and other Losties lives at danger with his curiosity). Unless this is part of a very elaborate deception, which is possible and which is why I don’t completely rule out this plant/spy theory, I don’t think Rousseau is part of the Others.

  181. Hammer says:

    ToeKnee – You make a great point. There seems to be plenty of evidence for both views. The show often leads us to go in one direction then pull the rug out. For me, it’s just a hunch and a theory because if I were looking for my kid and I found a place I had never seen before…I’m going in guns ablazin’. I wouldn’t wait offsite for “survivors” of the confrontation. She waited by the creek even after the gun shot, but came running when she heard Sayid calling her? Besides, after 16 years, there wouldn’t be a inch of that island I didn’t know about if I’m looking for my kid.

  182. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”44304″] She waited by the creek even after the gun shot, but came running when she heard Sayid calling her?[/quote]
    LOL I thought that was odd too – it seems like once she heard the gunshots she either would have come to help them, or ran back to her home and hid.

  183. mikey says:

    dharma might have relocated to underground. The swan station had an unopened door, the hydra station had some secret doors, when locke was attacked by smokey he was being pulled into a giant hole. mabye smokey is being controlled from down below

  184. Christine says:

    Has anyone read “Prey” by Michael Crichton? The black smoke reminds me of the swarm of nanobots in the book. Creepy.

  185. laur says:

    someone might have already said this but when the losties are trying to find out what the transmiter is saying in french why does sayid not understand it? he was a chef in paris he must speak some freanch…

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