Par Avion

Claire in Lost Par Avion

Last week’s Lost episode “Enter 77” was quite heavy on the mythology as Kate, Sayid, Locke and Rousseau found and captured Mikhail Bakunin, the man formerly known as “patchy”.

In tonight’s Lost episode titled “Par Avion” which is French for “By Airplane”, the A-team continue their journey to save Jack from The Others. On the beach we’re getting back to the relationship between Claire and Charlie.

This is the official description of tonight’s Claire centric Lost episode:

Spoilers

Claire becomes suspicious of Charlie when he exhibits peculiar behavior after she comes up with an idea that could get everybody rescued. Meanwhile, tensions mount between Sayid and Locke as they continue their trek to rescue Jack, on “Lost,” WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14 (10:00-11:00 p.m., ET), on the ABC Television Network

As always, please feel free to discuss the episode, but take a good look at the commenting guidelines since they have been updated.

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138 Responses to Par Avion

  1. HurleysButtcrack says:

    Claire looks beautiful in this photo. A while back I couldn’t stand her character because all she seemed to be doing was screeching and acting hysterical.

  2. Tasha says:

    Wow. That was a great episode! I guess we now know that Locke MEANT to do that. Also, can anybody tell me what that guy said to Locke right before the french woman interupted. It was a bit blurry to me.

    Also, as alot knew, Jack and Claire are half brother and sister. So were Shannon and Boone. Could anybody else be related?

    If this island already exists, there is a place called Adamsville in the Pacific that has a population of like 74. I could be a little off there. It reminds me of Jonesville, if anyone is familiar with what happened there. Places secluded like that gives me the creeps.

  3. calendar says:

    Patchy guy said something along the lines of….”and John Locke, I knew you, but I don’t remember where from…..the John Locke I knew was para….” and thats where rouseau interupted. He obviously was going to say “paralysed” which explains why locke was not bothered he died in the force field but how did patchy know all this???

    The last couple of episods have been excellant

  4. Faked says:

    Think about it. The others had a huge profile on Jack, so they probably had them about everyone on the island. If patchy’s an other, he probably knew everything from Locke’s file.

  5. Matt says:

    Did anyone notice that Sawyer was reading Ann Rynd – Fountainhead at the end of this episode? Anyone see any significance in that?

  6. ForeverLost says:

    Wow!! I can’t wait to watch it again. What’s up with that pesky list, that came up again. Kind of sounds like “Hero’s” Locke is totally confusing me at this point. I’m not sure I like him anymore.

  7. So, verdict on Jack?

  8. calendar says:

    Faked – yes I know the others know all about the losties but still….how?! When did they receive their ‘files’ etc etc – basically a rhetorical question at this stage I suppose!

  9. Tasha says:

    I think Locke is awesome. I believe he is one of the key guys on this island. He has already been so mysterious.
    I think alot of hints come from him…”everything happens for a reason.” His games. I think he is hiding something though which we might find out soon.

  10. laur says:

    yeah locke seems to have changed quite a bit..he used to be interested in the island and its mysteries but now he is destroying their chances of learning more about it. Why has he suddenly changed? anyone have ideas?

  11. Andres says:

    So, if Patchy knew that Locke was in a wheelchair and almost spilled the beans on the group (who don’t know that about him), could that be the reason why he deliberately pushed him into the fence hoping he would die? Is him being in a wheelchair a secret worth killing for? Why?

    I’m really liking where the show is going in these last few episodes!

  12. Iwouldgetwithjack says:

    I think it is suspicious that Rousseau interrupted Lock and Patchy guy…..also what’s up with Jack playing football- that left me shaking in my boots….

  13. Iwouldgetwithjack says:

    I think it is suspicious that Rousseau interrupted Lock and Patchy guy…..also what’s up with Jack playing football- that left me shaking in my boots….

  14. Andres says:

    “also what’s up with Jack playing football- that left me shaking in my boots….”

    Must be some residual stuff from his last movie 😉

  15. ForeverLost says:

    [quote comment=”44582″]So, if Patchy knew that Locke was in a wheelchair and almost spilled the beans on the group (who don’t know that about him), could that be the reason why he deliberately pushed him into the fence hoping he would die? Is him being in a wheelchair a secret worth killing for? Why?

    I’m really liking where the show is going in these last few episodes![/quote]

    And didn’t Patchy say “thank you”

  16. IwouldgetwithLOSTwithjack says:

    finally Patchy was definitely egging Locke on….

  17. calendar says:

    I’m wondering if rouseau’s ‘interuption’ wasn’t a coincidence….then again she did say she had no interest in what he had to say as it would all be lies – but that could have been a decoy in itself.

    I suspected when kate and sawyer left Jack that he would becomeinvolved with them and then not want to go back to the beach when the rescue team arrived (cos it was pretty obvious ket would try to find him)

    I think the last few episodes are showing the divide between the people who really want to leav ethe island still ie claire and kate and the ones who, interesstingly, seem reluctant to leave ie locke and desmond

  18. stormclouds13 says:

    Locke did not seem phased by anything Mikhail was saying. My new (totally out-there with not much evidence in support and will probably be disproven next week) theory: Locke was one of the island’s former recruits, whether it was for the Others or for Dharma. The accident that caused him to become paralyzed was also what caused him to be sent back to the mainland. Mikhail mentioned something about wanting to return to the island after leaving and told Kate she wasn’t capable of understanding.

    So perhaps Locke, in what we have interpreted up until this point to be either extreme stupidity or some kind of warped self-interest, is either carrying out his former mission or exacting revenge or even acting out of his own elation at finally being back on the island after having resigned himself to never being able to go back.

    He obviously doesn’t want to go home and now we know that he probably knew he would be blowing up what was either the Flame or a decoy for the Flame. For some reason he took one of the C4 packs with him from the Flame and didn’t want Kate or Sayid to find out about it. He didn’t come along to find Jack, he’s there on his own mission, and I don’t think it has all that much to do with Ecko’s stick either. We’ve known since the first few episodes of season one that he knows more than the other survivors and wants to keep it that way. He’s willing to sacrifice the lives of other people to further his own agenda, which to me seems both very Other-like and very Dharma-like.

    Or perhaps he knew some of the Others in the outside world and one or more of them had something to do with his paralysis.

    Ooh! Or maybe he’s an assassin sent by Dharma to finish the “purge.”

    Ok, now I’m just getting carried away. But it all made complete sense to me while I was watching and I had to put it out there somewhere!

  19. Tasha says:

    I don’t think she did it on purpose. She probably wasn’t even really listening. I think the writer’s did that on purpose. They have a way of doing that. He was about to say something….and now he is dead. We will never really know.

    I think Locke did it on purpose because of something the eye patch guy said.

  20. IwouldgetwithLOSTwithjack says:

    That is a great point that our team is divided among the Island diehards and those who want to come home.

  21. KJ says:

    Good episode. Confirmed a couple of things we’ve all suspected (Claire being Christian’s son, Jack starting to apparently gel with the Others), but still intriguing.

    Silly things I noticed:

    Why not build a ladder? Or at least choose a tree with some branches to make it easier to climb?

    That poor message on the bird is gonna wash away as soon as he lands to get some food.

    Okay, enough of that. 🙂

    So, the alarm system goes all the way around Othersville. But there obviously must be some way to bypass it, or turn it off, or maybe two of the pylons aren’t actually connected and provide an opening. Otherwise, how would people get in and out? If they HAD gone all the way around, perhaps they would’ve found some kind of control station or guard station (or both).

  22. fencepost says:

    [quote comment=”44573″]Wow. That was a great episode! I guess we now know that Locke MEANT to do that. Also, can anybody tell me what that guy said to Locke right before the french woman interupted. It was a bit blurry to me.

    Also, as alot knew, Jack and Claire are half brother and sister. So were Shannon and Boone. Could anybody else be related?

    If this island already exists, there is a place called Adamsville in the Pacific that has a population of like 74. I could be a little off there. It reminds me of Jonesville, if anyone is familiar with what happened there. Places secluded like that gives me the creeps.[/quote]
    I think Patchy was about to say “Para…”, that when Locke came to the island he was paralzed. Remember Locke has not told anyone this. I think He killed Patchy to avoid having his secret told.

  23. FMGreenSteve says:

    First of all, Claire looked incredible through this entire episode – both in “island time” as well as her dark-haired flashbacks. =)

    With that out of the way, WOW what a great episode that was!
    While my faith in the show was tested early this season, the writers have completely won me back with the past 3 weeks.

    They are answering long-standing questions – both popular questions (like next week’s preview, which I shant discuss) and lesser-known/die-hard fan questions (Claire & Jack = 1/2 Brother/Sister) – and the new questions they are raising aren’t of the obvious variety, they are “thinking man’s questions,” ie, did Rousseau cut-off Mikhail on purpose? Is she really an outsider? What’s gotten into Locke?

    My thoughts on Locke is that he is interested in getting answers out of Ben, and that is why he has been acting the way he has. Ben clearly affected Locke in season2 when he said that he was captured while going to the hatch to get Locke. Locke has been obsessed with that ever since.

    They capped the show off with another great bombshell, though it’s something that many many people have been predicting for a long long time. It seems as though fans are still one step ahead of the producers this season, which isn’t really a good thing, but I’ve seen enough promise in the past few weeks to have plenty of hope that this season will leave us titillated and begging for more.

  24. Ann says:

    If you pause the map of the barracks, you can see tunnels called subterrianean passages. These probably lead all over the island and is how Ethan got to the plane crash so fast. They have underground transporation. The sound that Rose heard that reminded her of the city. Subways. They go straight under the barriers.

  25. calendar says:

    Just thought of some questions…
    1) Have we seen Aunt Leslie/Lindsey (can’t remember her name now!) before?
    2) When Jack went to Australia – when we first suspected him and claire were related – who did he visit?

  26. calendar says:

    “They have underground transporation. The sound that Rose heard that reminded her of the city. Subways. They go straight under the barriers.”

    good call ann!!!!!

  27. KJ says:

    [quote comment=”44596″]They have underground transporation. The sound that Rose heard that reminded her of the city. Subways. They go straight under the barriers.[/quote]

    Wow, I don’t even remember that! But it makes sense…I wouldn’t put anything past them at this point.

  28. stormclouds13 says:

    [quote comment=”44595″]My thoughts on Locke is that he is interested in getting answers out of Ben, and that is why he has been acting the way he has. Ben clearly affected Locke in season2 when he said that he was captured while going to the hatch to get Locke. Locke has been obsessed with that ever since.
    [/quote]

    On the matter of lists and the “Great Man” who is supposedly in charge of the Others: if Locke has all this extra island knowledge, does he perhaps know what these lists mean? Is that why he started to go so crazy when Ben said he had been coming for him? Is it possible that Locke was once rejected from this elite society but now they’re starting to lure him with the possibility of acceptance? Could he now be jealous of Jack for being taken in?

  29. Ann says:

    I do have a question. Mikhail mentioned Kate and Sayid are not on the list. Kate was on the list that was given to Michael…. so this is obviously another list?

  30. FMGreenSteve says:

    Note that Mikhail mentioned Kate, Sayid, and Locke were all on the list, but didn’t say a word about Rousseau.

    Also note that during the operation we find out that “Shepard wasn’t even on the list.”

    Another thought I just had is that…it’s assumed now that Desmond has lived all of this before which is why he can see events before they happen. If that is the case, then that means ALL of the losties have lived through this before…and perhaps THAT is how The Others have gathered so much information about them. If The Others can pass through time without restrictions, then they could continually go back and revist all of the Losties, extracting more and more infomation each time flight 815 crashes.

    Also, if it’s assumed that Desmond caused the crash of flight 815 by turning the key, and as a result of that event he now has the precognitive abilities, how did 815 crash all of the previous times, and why didn’t he gain precognition those times?

  31. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”44603″]I do have a question. Mikhail mentioned Kate and Sayid are not on the list. Kate was on the list that was given to Michael…. so this is obviously another list?[/quote]

    Well now you’ve got me unsure about my first statement in my previous post. I can’t wait to watch this episode again tomorrow, there was a lot of dialog that needs to be dissected!

  32. XtraCripsy says:

    [quote comment=”44602″]
    On the matter of lists and the “Great Man” who is supposedly in charge of the Others[/quote]

    This is the man that Mikhail said brought him and others to the island. From Lostpedia:

    Magnus Hanso is the grandfather of Alvar Hanso. A 19th century sea captain and shipping merchant, he commanded the Black Rock.

    The name “Magnus Hanso” is equal to “The Great Hanso”, or “Hanso the Great”.

    * “Magnus” is a Latin word for “great”, “large”, “big”, “very”, “very much” or “important”, etc.
    o Is the Latin form of the Dutch surname “de Groot” (both meaning “The Great”).

    Looks like we have another wrinkle in time problem.

  33. Jules says:

    [quote comment=”44603″]I do have a question. Mikhail mentioned Kate and Sayid are not on the list. Kate was on the list that was given to Michael…. so this is obviously another list?[/quote]

    Maybe Kate and Sawyer were on that list to get Jack to stay with the Others…

  34. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”44605″]
    Also, if it’s assumed that Desmond caused the crash of flight 815 by turning the key, and as a result of that event he now has the precognitive abilities, how did 815 crash all of the previous times, and why didn’t he gain precognition those times?[/quote]

    He didn’t crash the plane by turning the key. That was done later. He crashed the plane by letting the numbers run down.

  35. A Dawg says:

    [quote comment=”44594″][quote comment=”44573″]Wow. That was a great episode! I guess we now know that Locke MEANT to do that. Also, can anybody tell me what that guy said to Locke right before the french woman interupted. It was a bit blurry to me.

    Also, as alot knew, Jack and Claire are half brother and sister. So were Shannon and Boone. Could anybody else be related?

    If this island already exists, there is a place called Adamsville in the Pacific that has a population of like 74. I could be a little off there. It reminds me of Jonesville, if anyone is familiar with what happened there. Places secluded like that gives me the creeps.[/quote]
    I think Patchy was about to say “Para…”, that when Locke came to the island he was paralzed. Remember Locke has not told anyone this. I think He killed Patchy to avoid having his secret told.[/quote]
    In season 1 before a commercial break he said to Walt, “You wanna know a secret” Well’ I bet he told him about the wheelchair. All I can say is.., Yes, I wanna know a secret!

  36. A Dawg says:

    I meant to comment that on a quote about locke not telling anyone yet about the wheelchair ^.^ oops

  37. stormclouds13 says:

    The way I see it, we have several “lists.”

    1. The flight manifesto. The original list, and the way we found out Ethan was an other and what Sawyer’s real name is. Hurley questioned the beach survivors using the manifesto and apparently showed it to Locke because Locke then addressed Sawyer as James.

    2. The lists of the 815 survivors made by Ethan and Goodwin that resulted in the kidnapping of a good chunk of the tailies. The children were on the list, as was Ecko. Cindy was grabbed later in the jungle, so it is unclear as to whether she was on the original list. Claire would also supposedly be on the list of the beach survivors as she was specifically targeted and taken by Ethan.

    3. The list of people given to Michael. This list included Kate, Sawyer, Jack, and Hurley. Hurley, though he was on this list, was sent back.

    4. An unknown and possibly fictional list carried by Ben when he was “caught” by Rousseau which supposedly includes Locke as one of the “good ones.”

    5. Jacob’s list, mentioned by Pickett when he stated that Jack was not on this list. But as he made no mention of Kate and Sawyer we can possibly assume that they were on the list.

    6. The list spoken of by Mikhail in tonight’s episode, written by the man who brought the Others to the island. The only person he addressed directly was Kate telling her she was not on the list because she was flawed, but then he turned toward Locke and mentioned being angry, and toward Sayid and mentioned being…anyone remember what he said about Sayid? He didn’t say anything about Rousseau.

    It is possible that a few of these lists are the same, but these are the moments I can recall lists being mentioned.

  38. patience says:

    I think Ben’s list was created for his own personal agenda, getting his spinal tumor removed, I also think that Jacob is the man that brought the others to the island. Thus the list Mikhail spoke of are one in the same.

  39. chewap says:

    damn she looks fine…

    as i said before, locke is part of the game…

  40. soularheart says:

    I am starting to suspect that Locke to has made time travels while on the island! Maybe that’s how he has ”healed” his legs, by avoiding being paralysed while visiting the past! And as I recall he had a relapse and another recovery on the island! Maybe those two were also the results of time travels? Perhaps the new insight he shows about the island, disguised in his new clumsy ways, is also the result of time travelling, just like Desmond’s ability to foresee!

  41. Lesley says:

    I believe that Locke has been on a mission to “fix his mess” ever since the sweat lodge. His goal is to make things right and everything else is secondary. He needed to find out how the security system worked and patchy provided him with the answer. The explosives are his tools to maniputlate Ben once they get to Otherville. Again the Great Man line. I like the idea that Jacob is the founder of Otherville but I also get the impression that Jacob still lives. Does he move in and out of the tme wrinkle? Is Jacob a regular time traveler? And what did Mikhail mean by we can leave but can never come back? Since a compass now seems to work on the island, did the EM implosion close the worm hole that allows passage in? Is it fixable? I thought that patchy seemed different from the rest of the Others, more unkempt, scabs, bad teeth…. Was that just part of the “I am Dharma” persona or a hint at some other mystery.. Maybe he was in charge of all the hatches and there are no toothbrushes left. JK… I cannot wait to watch this one again and next week should be killer!

  42. Matt says:

    Stormclouds13, Patchy told Sayid he was weak

  43. scewbydu says:

    [quote comment=”44576″]Did anyone notice that Sawyer was reading Ann Rynd – Fountainhead at the end of this episode? Anyone see any significance in that?[/quote]
    Sawyer was reading the Ayn Rain novel “The Fountainhead”. She was a Russian writer in the early 1900s. She subscribed to the philosophy of objectivism which simply states that selfishness is completely moral and to completely selfless ie. Mother Theresa, Ghandi, is the most immoral thing a person can do. Perfect reading for Sawyer don’t you think!

  44. Gistenhose says:

    Jack really creeped me out. I keep thinking about his tatoo…He walks among them, but he’s not one of them…something like that. I thought that meant he was a leader…could it mean he really is one of the “Others” and has been all along?

  45. Hammer says:

    I’m gonna be the jack@## that says “I told ya so” about Locke knowing he was destroying the Flame. Now we are getting new info leading to motive. It seems like there’s more to it than just wanting stay there ’cause he can walk.

    Also, it seems that Kate may have figured out that Danielle isn’t who she says she is by asking her why she isn’t curious about Alex.

    Did anyone else think it was strange that the Russian thanked Locke for pushing him into the “fence”? It seems like the others can kill each other for their cause, but cannot kill themselves. He could have just ran into the fence himself right? Wonder if they have a warped moral code?

  46. Max Bowman says:

    Did it occur to anyone else that the rescue party isn’t thinking ahead very far? It seems likely that, if they do manage to get Jack, they may then want to leave in a great big hurry. Wouldn’t they want to figure out in advance some way to disable / climb / GET OUT past the barricade?

  47. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”44658″]Did it occur to anyone else that the rescue party isn’t thinking ahead very far? It seems likely that, if they do manage to get Jack, they may then want to leave in a great big hurry. Wouldn’t they want to figure out in advance some way to disable / climb / GET OUT past the barricade?[/quote]

    Well they originally were going to trade the Russian for Jack. But now they can kidnap someone, use the C4 to blow up a fence post, or maybe Danielle is an other and Kate/Sayid know it and are planning on using her?

  48. Jocco says:

    I think that for the first two seasons, Locke felt that he had finally received his chance to be a “great man.” He is beginning to suspect that he may not be so special after all, and is in fact a pawn of a greater power, like he has been his entire life. He probably wants some answers, but mainly he wants to destroy anything that could have power over him.(stolen c4, blowing up the flame)

    Maybe the security system only works on folks that have been exiled from Otherville, through a head implant like in The Running Man. Patchy was thankful because dying that way was preferable to what Ben/Jacob would have done to him upon his return.

  49. Hammer says:

    I’m feeling a little stupid. How does the title of the episode fit in? Can par avion mean “by bird” instead of “by airplane”?

  50. chewap says:

    and what’s with “by air”?

  51. Andres says:

    [quote comment=”44663″]I’m feeling a little stupid. How does the title of the episode fit in? Can par avion mean “by bird” instead of “by airplane”?[/quote]

    Well, I can only guess. “Par avion” is something the post office puts on letters that are sent by plane, not by land/sea. To me that’s a metaphor for the little message Claire was sending via bird.

  52. jason says:

    Par Avoin means By Air and refers to Claire’s plan with the birds. Usually it is a phrase you find stamped on Air Mail.

  53. Tasha says:

    Where is the By Air coming from? I was thinking the same thing about the title. Unless the airplane is a metaphor or something for bird.

  54. Hammer says:

    Thanks, I’m handicapped by only knowing American English.
    I wanted to assume the metaphor, but it was posted earlier that it meant “by airplane”.

  55. XtraCripsy says:

    “Par avion” is the designation used on a letter to indicate “air mail.”

    In regards to this episode, it’s getting to be too much of a soap opera. It’s like General Hospital meets Gilligan’s Island.

    About Locke: this is not the first time he’s been on this island. That’s why this time he came prepared with all those knives. The other time he was paralyzed, and that’s how Patchy knew him. Locke does not want the Losties to know this. Locke knows the evil the Hostiles have done, that’s why he found it so easy to kill Patchy.

    So Claire wished her mother dead, and then it happened. Another put-a-wig-on-the-Lostie flashback.

  56. cog says:

    A few theories:

    Why did Locke push the russian? Is it possible that Locke was pissed that the Russian told him he wasn’t on the list? Back in season 2, Ben told him that he was “one of the good ones.” Now Patchy tells him that he’s not on the list because he’s too “angry”. So he thought that the island had a special purpose for him, but now his faith is being undermined. In the past, whenever Locke’s sense of purpose has taken a hit, he’s always just lost it.

    Why did the Russian say “thank you”? Two possibilities: 1) he knew that Sayid might resort to torture eventually and get all of his secrets, or 2) he was afraid of “him,” because like Ben said, he’s a great man but not a forgiving man.

    Why did the Russian say that Kate wasn’t on the list? He’s talking about “Jacob’s list” that Pickett mentioned. The list given to Michael was Ben’s list, with Jack to do surgery, and Kate and Sawyer as leverage on Jack. That was a minor mission; Jacob’s list is part of something much, much bigger.

    Is Jack one of the Others now? I don’t know, but that ending kicked ass! Is it Wednesday yet?

  57. RainDrops says:

    Did anyone catch what Patchy said right before Sayid checked the map? I was watching online and it was hard to hear. Patchy said “It WAS a security system, but like everything else on this island it’s been disabled…there are something something…” Sayid checks the map. “he’s right.”

  58. paulost says:

    In regard to the others knowing so much about the losties, didn’t patchy mention that before the key was turned they could use a submarine to get to and from the island, but after the key was turned they could leave but not come back. Ethan and Goodwin were sent out the day of the crash, they could have collected all the names and the other others could have done background checks right away…am I way off here?

  59. Hammer says:

    RainDrops – yes, but per usual of the others, he may have been just telling lies. But you might be onto something, if their power was out, it’s back.

  60. Dakota says:

    [quote comment=”44582″]So, if Patchy knew that Locke was in a wheelchair and almost spilled the beans on the group (who don’t know that about him), could that be the reason why he deliberately pushed him into the fence hoping he would die? Is him being in a wheelchair a secret worth killing for? Why?

    I’m really liking where the show is going in these last few episodes![/quote]
    Maybe Locke was being recruited by Darhma before he got in the wheel chair and he is such a beliver in faith bc he ended up with darhma in the end. A stretch yes, but fake henry gale said it was locke he was coming for.

  61. ManicRover says:

    The information about Locke possibly having a connection to the Others is really interesting. Makes me think back to last year when Ben said he was coming to get Locke prior to being caught by Rousseau. I always thought he was just manipulating Locke but maybe he was telling the truth.

  62. adriennez says:

    That is a very interesting theory about Locke having been on the island before. It seems like the Others know all about the Losties…in the mini season(pretty sure) one of the Others (Ben or Juliet?) told Jack that they had his father’s autopsy report. So how would they know so much about the Losties?

    I guess Claire saw something about the bird tagging while visiting her comatose mother at the hospital…it was what she said her mom liked to watch on TV.

    With Ben promising to let Juliet go home(and Jack also), I have been thinking about what happened to Michael and Walt…this episode involving the tagged bird that they attatched a message to, also reminded me of an old Mike and Walt episode where Mike goes to get Walt from his stepfather after his mother has died. The stepfather says something about Walt being weird or having strange powers or something and there is a scene with a bird hitting a window…it made me think…great season finale…the bird with the message finding Walt and Mike. I know it’s reaching…

  63. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”44674″]Did anyone catch what Patchy said right before Sayid checked the map? I was watching online and it was hard to hear. Patchy said “It WAS a security system, but like everything else on this island it’s been disabled…there are something something…” Sayid checks the map. “he’s right.”[/quote]

    They surround the barracks. There is no way to get around them.

  64. alex says:

    does anyone else think locke is going to try and blow up the submarine to keep them on the island?

  65. Tasha says:

    As far as Locke getting recruited…Eye Patch guy doesn’t remember Kate and Sayid. He does remember Locke but can’t put a finger on it. Locke was definately on the list at one time!

  66. Hammer says:

    I don’t think Locke knew he was coming back to the island. The knives were for the walkabout. In his flashback, he was angry that he couldn’t go on the walkabout. If he knew he was supposed to get back on the plane, he wouldn’t fought so hard to stay in Australia.

    That said, this still could be second or altered trip to the island for him.

  67. Andreas says:

    Great episode.

    Regarding the title “Par Avion”, like I wrote in the post, it is French for “By Airplane”, but is also the international words used for mail that goes by air. So the title is referring to the message Claire put on the bird.

  68. froggirl says:

    Wow, well, I was SO wrong about Locke. What is he playing at? I did think it odd that Eye-patch said “The Jon Locke I knew…” Did they perhaps know each other off-island? Perhaps Mikail had something to do with how Jon got paralyzed and that is why he really didn’t care if he died.

    As for Jack–it’s only been a few days. He could be acting friendly toward the others just so he doesn’t ruin whatever promised “way home” he thinks he has going for him.

  69. RainDrops says:

    [quote comment=”44683″]IIf he knew he was supposed to get back on the plane, he wouldn’t fought so hard to stay in Australia.

    That said, this still could be second or altered trip to the island for him.[/quote]

    Yes, but if he was somehow connected with/chosen by the Others, he still wouldn’t have known that the plane taking him away from the chance to reunite with this Island would be crashed into this island… through Desmond’s act of letting the numbers run out.

    So is one assumption that Locke’s participation in the “game” (responding to a travel opportunity for the walkabout, the travel agency–owned by Hurley? I forget), is really a selection by the Others, a selection Locke knows about to one degree or another?
    And separately Desmond participates in a “sailing game” run by his ex’s rich father, connected to Dharma.

    ?

  70. Hammer says:

    Thanks Andreas. I was trying to look too deep for an airplane ref. and passed right by the birds.

    When are we going to hear your thoughts on Locke? Or are you working on total episode post?

  71. Tasha says:

    Did anybody notice it said “Bondi Beach” on what they wrapped the aby in. I looked it up and the only thing i found relating was Bondi means “place where a fligth of nullas took place.”

  72. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”44689″]Thanks Andreas. I was trying to look too deep for an airplane ref. and passed right by the birds.

    When are we going to hear your thoughts on Locke? Or are you working on total episode post?[/quote]

    Considering Locke’s recent behavior I’d say a separate post is in order. Don’t worry, I’m working on it, hehe! =)

  73. Hammer says:

    Oh! Any thought on the significance of Dr. Sheppard wanting to end Claire’s mom’s life?

  74. Vincent'sbark says:

    Have we gone into the SciFi area yet? Anybody see “The Island?” What if the losties are all clones for some experiment, sent out into the world to gather information, and return to report their findings? When Patchy said “flawed” like they had some genetic error…and when Patchy had the brain hemmorage, it kills the brain but leaves the body and organs intact for later use…

  75. adriennez says:

    I almost forgot about the Bondi Beach towel. I also found on Wikipedia this…in Aboriginal it means “water breaking over rocks” or “noise of water breaking over rocks”. An interesting connection is that Bondi Beach in New South Wales in Sydney, Australia is that it is said to be where surf lifesaving originated back in the early 20th century. That is kind of what Des did for Charlie…he saved his life again…he saw him dying trying to get Claire’s netted bird…getting crushed by the water against the rocks(not a quote but the gist of what Des told Claire he saw)…that sounds pretty close to the Aboriginal of Bondi Beach that I quoted at beginning of post.

  76. adriennez says:

    As far as Dr. S wanting to end Claire’s mom’s life…life insurance policy?

  77. Meg says:

    I highly doubt Christian would get any money from Carol. Claire would probably get everything from her mother, along with Lindsey.

  78. Andreas says:

    Christian Shephard wanting Claire to turn of the life support systems probably had to do with this episode’s theme of false hope. He didn’t want Claire to keep her mother alive because of the guilt she felt for the accident.

  79. Jocco says:

    Locke’s hippy friends grew weed for Dharma or the hostile’s experiments. That’s how Locke became aware of Dharma or the hostiles and they of him.

    Is Jack possibly Jacob? I think that it is safe to assume that Alvar Hanso is/was the leader of Dharma and that Jacob is the leader of the hostiles. While the hostiles are not part of Dharma, I think that their disagreement may be trivial and that the hostiles are carrying on the work of Dharma.

    Massive life insurance policies could possibly help to fund Dharma or the hostiles in an off the books fashion.

  80. Toeknee says:

    Regarding Locke – I don’t think he has been on the island before, particularly not in a paralyzed condition. The island isn’t exactly Handicap Accessible. Maybe Otherville is, but not the rest of it.

    Another reason I don’t think he had been on the island or was part of the Others, is that when Ben was their prisoner, Ben and Locke had plenty of alone time and not once was there even a hint that Locke had any prior knowledge of Ben or the Others. It’s one thing for Locke to play dumb while Jack or other Losties were around, but when they weren’t around and it was just Ben and Locke, that would have been the perfect time for them to drop the charade.

    When Patchy said “the John Locke I knew was para-(lyzed)”, I took it to mean one of two things:

    a) after getting names of the survivors from Ethan, the Others (via their off-island contacts, maybe Mittelos?) did their research and found out everything they could about each survivor, and of course the latest info available about Locke before he got on the plane was that he was paralyzed. So Patchy’s comment is based on the research they had done since the crash occurred.

    Or

    2) the Others did try to recruit Locke in the past without revealing the true nature or location of their activities to him, much like they recruited Juliet. But ultimately they had to reject him because he was paralyzed, and they knew that would be a hindrence on the island. Perhaps the recruiting process even started before he was paralyzed. Then, once he was on the island and the Others realized he recovered, Ben came over and tried to re-recruit him, just as he told Locke. (is there any other reason Ben may have been roaming around that area where he got caught in Rousseau’s trap?)

    On the other hand, the Others may have never wanted Locke – Patchy did say he was flawed (angry), so Ben’s comment that he was coming to get Locke was just part of the manipulation.

  81. XtraCripsy says:

    I miss Patchy. He made the perfect host, growing his own tea and then serving Sayid and Freckles some ice tea. He seemed on edge and over emotional at times, but you would too if you lived in a house with the basement chock full of C4!

    As far as harvesting Patchy’s organs after his brain was microwaved, judging by his skin, he didn’t seem too healthy, and with all the cheap Dharma vodka on hand, I’m sure his liver was pickled.

    I think the producers said that one character would be gay. That might be Tom. He told Freckles when she was dressing that she wasn’t his type. Jack might be starting a relationship with him, sharing a bungalow, going to Ikea together, just to get more info. That’s why they were seen playing football together. And, that might be why Kate was so shocked, she’s knows about Tom.

    Locke brought more knives than any one person would need for a walkabout. They were for the other Losties so that they could help him.

  82. Mel_mpls says:

    What an awesome episode. When I saw Jack playing football with the others, it sent a shiver down my back. It doesn’t fit with his past behavior toward the others, but if he is actually “one of them”, which would make sense in a way (they let him operate on Ben, he made Kate promise to never come back for him), then why keep up the charade of being there prisoner when no other losties were around? Possible theory- it was all for Juliette’s benefit? Unless the Others have some sort of infallible brainwashing technique. Any thoughts on this?

  83. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”44714″]Christian Shephard wanting Claire to turn of the life support systems probably had to do with this episode’s theme of false hope. [/quote]
    “False hope” was how Christian saw it. But Claire had genuine hope, and this ties into the similar message of making your own luck (or not giving up hope) from Hurley’s episode Tricia Tanaka is Dead.

  84. Toeknee says:

    When Locke was looking over Patchy’s dead body, I was hoping he’d lift the eye patch. We didn’t find out if that glass eye Eko found is Patchy’s. Was Locke even aware of the glass eye? I can’t remember if Eko shared that discovery.

  85. Jocco says:

    Toeknee-Maybe Locke didn’t recognize Ben because the hatch blowing up did something to his memory, like Desmond’s. Maybe he’s seeing parallel timelines as well.

  86. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”44596″]If you pause the map of the barracks, you can see tunnels called subterrianean passages. These probably lead all over the island and is how Ethan got to the plane crash so fast. They have underground transporation. The sound that Rose heard that reminded her of the city. Subways. They go straight under the barriers.[/quote]

    I REALLY like this theory! However…. Damon and Carlton have said that they used the sound of a New York City taxi fare printer for the Monster’s sounds, something Rose would be familar with (they said this during their DVD commentary for “The 23rd Psalm”),

  87. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”44734″]Toeknee-Maybe Locke didn’t recognize Ben because the hatch blowing up did something to his memory, like Desmond’s. Maybe he’s seeing parallel timelines as well.[/quote]
    That is possible. I won’t rule anything out (well, MOST things). I hope we’ll get more info about this soon because his actions have been peculiar in the last 2 episodes.

  88. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”44736″][quote comment=”44734″]Toeknee-Maybe Locke didn’t recognize Ben because the hatch blowing up did something to his memory, like Desmond’s. Maybe he’s seeing parallel timelines as well.[/quote]
    That is possible. I won’t rule anything out (well, MOST things). I hope we’ll get more info about this soon because his actions have been peculiar in the last 2 episodes.[/quote]
    Hold it, on second thought, the Hatch implosion occurred after his encounters with Ben. However, maybe Locke didn’t recognize Patchy for this reason

  89. Joel says:

    [quote comment=”44730″][quote comment=”44714″]Christian Shephard wanting Claire to turn of the life support systems probably had to do with this episode’s theme of false hope. He didn’t want Claire to keep her mother alive because of the guilt she felt for the accident.[/quote]
    “False hope” was how Christian saw it. But Claire had genuine hope, and this ties into the similar message of making your own luck (or not giving up hope) from Hurley’s episode Tricia Tanaka is Dead.[/quote]

    Something about these posts clicked with me. Desmond is struggling with guilt, too. Yet he finds that he must continue to keep Charlie alive. Danielle Rousseau seems to feel guilty, yet wants to know that her daughter is alive; she has given up hope that there will be any reunions. Jack is driven to keep people alive and feels tremendous guilt when he cannot. Kate’s guilt over leaving Jack had propelled her to the false hope that she can make everything with Jack right again. Locke’s guilt over his past failures propels him to trust himself more and trust others less. Finally, Claire’s false hope that the note on the bird’s leg might help the losties get rescued–has she learned from her earlier false hopes or is she still flawed by false hopes?
    The Others, by contrast, have no evident hopes. Their world is clearly focused on specific plans and procedures. When things don’t go according to plan, they remove the offender–either by assassination or by brainwashing. Perhaps the lists are based on those with hope versus those without hope: cowards and angry people are faulty because they waste time hoping that things will change. Surgeons operate (no pun intended) on logic and sequential order.
    Sorry if this is rambling.

  90. Always confused says:

    Does anyone think the “Vanilla Sky” in the background while the Sea Gull was freed has any significance?

  91. jacksgirl says:

    was it just me, or did it really hurt to see Jack smiling playing football with the others?? it felt like a knife in the back, especially after seeing kates face… she has made such an effort to go back and save him, and now she sees him being happy with the one group of people she would be happy to see dead…. : (

  92. TheBlackGuardian says:

    [quote comment=”44725″]

    2) the Others did try to recruit Locke in the past without revealing the true nature or location of their activities to him, much like they recruited Juliet. But ultimately they had to reject him because he was paralyzed, and they knew that would be a hindrence on the island. Perhaps the recruiting process even started before he was paralyzed. Then, once he was on the island and the Others realized he recovered, Ben came over and tried to re-recruit him, just as he told Locke. (is there any other reason Ben may have been roaming around that area where he got caught in Rousseau’s trap?)
    .[/quote]
    This theory might have some truth in it as next week is a Locke-flashback, but Nestor Carbonell is listed as a guest star. Nestor Carbonell played Richard Alpert, the man who recruited Julia for Mittelos. Interesting that he would guest on a non-Julia-centric episode.

  93. LostDamery says:

    Wow…
    Great comments and memory of past episodes.
    The light that came on for me was that maybe this is a flexible reoccurring event meaning that the people on the list have been through this island before and are still trying to find the way out of the loop. Jacob is a dungeon master of sorts who can enter or exit the loop at will.
    Through the seemingly endless loop other people are drawn in and they are not on the list (first timers/non-survivors). I am guessing Jack/Desmond/Locke all are back in the loop trying to get it right this time.
    or maybe the list is those who survive the island test and are sentenced back through for breaking the rules of the game?
    This is my fun 2 cents!…still thinking…

  94. XtraCripsy says:

    Why does Dharma have to produce its own products? Everything from shampoo to rice cripsies has the generic Dharma brand. Why can’t they go to Sam’s Club and get a good deal on megaquantities of peanut butter?

    Wouldn’t this save loads of money?

  95. Lesley says:

    I doubt Locke has been to the island and agree that Patchy knew about him and his paralysis from the research based on the Losties’ lives before the crash. Patchy said thank-you because he wanted to die and Sayid would not oblige him when they were at the farm house. Jack is biding his time with the Others. Making friends and walking the walk until he can cook up a plan involving Juliet that will allow him the fix the entire island predicament for everyone. Kudos to Hammer, you called it man!

  96. LostDamery says:

    OK here is the third cent:
    Maybe the island rule is you must bring a replacement to get out of the loop.
    Jacks dad had been in the loop and brought his son and daughter?
    Lockes fake father was in the loop and is able to get Locke onboard.
    Echo’s brother was in the loop until Echo appeared.
    ..still thinking…

  97. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”44749″]Does anyone think the “Vanilla Sky” in the background while the Sea Gull was freed has any significance?[/quote]

    I saw that too but didn’t think much of it. It was hazy. You think they can be like in Hallow Earth or something??? I mean the whole submarine thing makes me think of an expedition going out this year. Alot of it adds up.

  98. ForeverLost says:

    Maybe Jack looked so happy because he was. Ben kept his promise and sent Jack “home”.

  99. Toeknee says:

    A few more thoughts and the I’ll stop obsessing over this episode (at least for this afternoon):

    The type of “security system” that they put up around “the barracks” seemed like an odd choice. Why not a regular electrified chain link fence with barbed wire at the top? Sure, someone could climb over the top of either system, but an electrified chain link fence wouldn’t have the gaps in it that the existing system does.

    I don’t think Locke threw Patchy into the security system to keep his secret from being revealed. Rose or any of the other Others could reveal it at anytime. Locke was in favor of killing him before that scene. Patchy telling Locke he was flawed probably ticked him off (as cog said earlier), and then Locke felt the need to test Patchy’s claim that the security system was not working, so Patchy was the perfect Guinea Pig, in Locke’s mind.

    Patchy said thank you because he wanted to die, as he said in the Enter 77 episode.

    Regarding Jack’s current situation – having saved Ben’s life, I’m sure he’s entitled to be treated better than a prisoner would be. He has come to accept having to live with the Others temporarily, until Ben is sufficiently recovered, and then he believes he’ll be allowed to go home (but who knows if that will actually happen).

    Claire’s mom – she’s not dead yet! (Monty Python anyone?). That last scene with pregnant Claire had to be shortly before her flight. But how long has the mother been in her coma?

    Claire’s rescue note – pretty long for such a small piece of paper! Also, kind of rambling, almost poetic language compared to your typical S.O.S.

  100. Hammer says:

    Seems like everyone’s answer to why he said thank you is because he wanted to die…that’s obvious…why did he want to die? What is the motivation?

  101. Mel_mpls says:

    [quote comment=”44772″]Maybe Jack looked so happy because he was. Ben kept his promise and sent Jack “home”.[/quote]

    Thank you! Jack HATED the Others previously, and now he’s having a great time with them? Something doesn’t fit- I just don’t get the feeling that he’s “playing along” with them until he can escape.

  102. txflw says:

    I don’t know if this has been covered but considering that Danielle captured Ben and basically introduced him to the “Losties”, seems to reinfoce her being closer to the “Others” since we believe they may have had a child together. Why didn’t she tell the “Losties” who she had?

  103. FMGreenSteve says:

    When Mikhail tells Locke that he recognizes him but can’t place where he’s seen him before, he is probably talking about when he saw Locke staring back at him from the Pearl station.

  104. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”44768″] Kudos to Hammer, you called it man![/quote]
    Thanks Lesley…now if they will tell us what’s up with Danielle I can sleep again!

  105. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”44779″]Seems like everyone’s answer to why he said thank you is because he wanted to die…that’s obvious…why did he want to die? What is the motivation?[/quote]

    LOL I guess that was the obvious part. After Enter 77 I assumed the Others have instructions to commit suicide if captured, to prevent the captured Other from revealing secrets that will jeopardize the other Others. This order may be specific to situations where the Losties capture them, being that they know Sayid was a torturer and may successfully obtain info from most people (but not Ben apparently).

  106. Hammer says:

    ToeKnee – Yeah, I struggle with why all the others are expendable except Ben when we are being lead to believe that Ben is not the ultimate leader. I guess Mikhail didn’t run to the fence himself because he lied that it didn’t work hoping they would all walk to it together?

    I need to see more about their society to understand why these people would rather kill themselves other than “live to fight another day”.

  107. MKS says:

    Some thoughts:
    Could this be the fabeled LOST Island of Atlantis? (or one of the other lost islands/ civilizations from mythology) Maybe the Black Pearl accidentally found it/ slipped through a time whole or something. The three toed statue could be one of a Atlantian deity. Maybe the Losties are descendants of Atlantians (at least some of them) and that is why they are on the list. That could also be the reason for the genetic experimantation/ research- a need to find people with the genetic code that could be “awakened”. According to mythology on Atlantis (ond other lost worlds) the people were advanced in their technology and knowledge. Maybe that is why Ben said that they were “not the bad guys”.

  108. Tasha says:

    MKS-

    I have studied all into lost continents and inner earth. Since I strongly believe this is some sort of cult and the war is brought up alot, I truly believe the island could be some sort of place like that. Most of my theories revolve around this…such as making a better race. Yes they were much more intelligient than us. I believe watching every episode, that this show, whether it will turn out that way or not, would have made a great movie about inner earth. Last nights episode only makes me feel stronger about it, because of eye patch guy saying you can leave and not come back… and he came by submarine. If the sub leaves, and they can’t find the signal, they may never get back there again. Also when the Portugese guys found the signal in the the cold, I assumed it was somewhere AROUND the North or South Pole, where supposedly(if you believe in that sort of stuff) you can enter inner earth, by submarine. Could Atlantis not been a continent at all but an inner continent? Groups of Nazis disappeared in the Arctic, they strongly believed in inner earth and ancient civilization. They wanted to create an Aryan race. Not saying it’s the Nazis, but this is obviously some sort of cult. Look at how they live. I don’t think Micheal and Walt are gone for good.

    Who knows, These are just my theories, everyone is entitled to what they think. That’s the cool thing about watching the show, no matter what your theory, you can find some type of truth in all of it.

  109. MKS says:

    I am pretty intrigued by the “hollow earth” idea. Incidentally, there was a book called “The Hollow Earth” written in the 1960’s by a Walter (Walt) Siegmeiter under the pseudonym Dr. Raymond Bernard. On the island we have a Walt and a Bernard (not sure about the Raymond).

  110. Toni says:

    [quote comment=”44623″]The way I see it, we have several “lists.”

    2. The lists of the 815 survivors made by Ethan and Goodwin that resulted in the kidnapping of a good chunk of the tailies. The children were on the list, as was Ecko. Cindy was grabbed later in the jungle, so it is unclear as to whether she was on the original list. Claire would also supposedly be on the list of the beach survivors as she was specifically targeted and taken by Ethan.

    3. The list of people given to Michael. This list included Kate, Sawyer, Jack, and Hurley. Hurley, though he was on this list, was sent back.

    4. An unknown and possibly fictional list carried by Ben when he was “caught” by Rousseau which supposedly includes Locke as one of the “good ones.”

    5. Jacob’s list, mentioned by Pickett when he stated that Jack was not on this list. But as he made no mention of Kate and Sawyer we can possibly assume that they were on the list.

    6. The list spoken of by Mikhail in tonight’s episode, written by the man who brought the Others to the island. The only person he addressed directly was Kate telling her she was not on the list because she was flawed, but then he turned toward Locke and mentioned being angry, and toward Sayid and mentioned being…anyone remember what he said about Sayid? He didn’t say anything about Rousseau.

    It is possible that a few of these lists are the same, but these are the moments I can recall lists being mentioned.[/quote]

    So in my opinion, jacob is more than likely “Him.” Therefore, in the above list of lists (haha), #s 4, 5, and 6 are probably the same and all originate from Jacob. Jacob probably received list #2 from ethan and goodwin in order to do research on the survivors and complilate his Master List. This is the one that seems to specify who is a “Good Guy.”

    Now, list #3 is a bit more interesting. Pickett’s comment “Jack wasn’t even on Jacob’s list” tells us 2 things:
    First off, obviously that someone other than Jacob wanted Jack captured (and we can easily guess Ben was the instrument behind that).
    But more importantly, it also implies that at least one of the captives were actually on the Jacob’s List…

    I think we can rule out Hurley since he seems to have served his purpose as a messenger to the other survivors. He is not on Jacob’s Master List. We can rule out Jack since ben added his name, not Jacob. And now, (and i realize some people will have issue with this assumption) if we decide to believe that mikhail wasn’t lying, we can also rule out Kate. So that leaves Sawyer on Jacob’s list!

    Now lets think about this and see if this makes any sense. If Sawyer was the target, then Kate was actually captured only to use as a control on Sawyer. This also explains why they gave her up so easily when they captured her while she was tracking michael in season 2… because she’s actually of no value to them on her own.

    Additionally, Ben went quite far out of his way to gain sawyer’s respect… farther than necessary, in my opinion, than was needed simply to keep him from escaping. No, this was part of some bigger plan.

    There have actually been several subtle hints that the Others had some secret plans in store for sawyer. if you remember, in “I Do” there was an exchange where pickette told sawyer he had the day off. sawyer seemed fine with the idea of a vacation day but then kate got all indignant and was like, “no sawyer, we work as a team, remember?” (or something like that). pickette let it go. but then when she returned to the cages after talking with Jack, Sawyer was returning from somewhere as well–kate asks him where he’s coming from he avoids answering(!) where was he?? well, i think we can guess that pickette took him whereever he had initially planned that morning. and if you remember in the “Carl rescue sequence” Sawyer seemed particularily dazed by the brainwash video… much more than kate and alex… could it be because he’s been shown it before?

    Moral of story: Sawyer is on Jacob’s list.

    why? who knows. but i’ll bet that sooner or later the plot will revisit this and we’ll view it with a whole new level of importance….

  111. Becky says:

    The Fountainhead has far more significance than Sawyer’s “selfishness.” The book, which admittedly, I have not read, talks about an elite society of only the most intelligent people. This is key considering that Patchy told Kate “you would not understand” and said “you are angry, you are weak.” He basically was telling her she was inferior. Could the Others be an elite society of only the top brains in various fields? Hence why they’d want Jack, a brilliant spinal surgeon?

    The scene with Jack sprinting for the ball and Kate’s disgusted look was unreal and bone chilling. I am so excited for next week.

    As far as Claire and Jack having the same father, it is interesting but does it mean anything? Also, while Claire’s idea was great, how did they even attach that note to the bird and won’t it just dissolve when it hits water?

    The electrified gates to the Others’ commune reminded me of the gates in Jurassic Park. Are the gates keeping people in or out or both?

  112. Tasha says:

    That “bird” is being tracked by the others. I don’t think it is going to get anywhere.

  113. aevkc says:

    Toni, I am really intrigued by your theory about Sawyer being on Jacob’s list. I had some of those same thoughts (albeit not so well thought out) myself. But I kept getting hung up on the fact that Pickett was going to kill Sawyer had Juliet not shot him. If Sawyer was truly on Jacob’s list, then he wouldn’t have been a target like that I don’t think. And would Ben have allowed him to escape? But everything else you’ve said makes sense to me, so I keep going around and around in a loop trying to figure it out. I guess that’s why I love the show!

  114. losty says:

    I think we all need to watch the pilot episode again(I haven’t got it so haven’t watched it recently)!
    The way this show is written shows how the writers refer back to previous episodes in the most sneaky of ways, with clues that aren’t obvious untill the next season. if it wasn’t for sites like this I don’t think that i would’ve remembered half of it.
    My big theory is that in the pilot episode, when the aftermath of the crash is shown; several weeks have passed since the crash and the “others/dharma” have had a period of time with the losties to find out their information ie. locke being para…. and then erased their memory(maybe this didn’t work with Desmond) using electromagnetics. Maybe Ethan did spinal surgery on Locke so he could walk and then brainwashed him- or maybe it was Jack!
    I honestly think that the losties have been on the island for a lot longer than they think that they have.
    Will someone please comment on this because maybe I have missed something and are “barking up the wrong tree”!

  115. losty says:

    Didn’t make it clear in my comment above – I think that the crash sites were staged – or at least the losties were returned to them weeks later to “wake up”
    Who is left from the tail section of the plane? is this an actor situation or important to the plot. Or were they all others!

  116. dr_candlewick says:

    Most of the discussion and theories has centered around recent history. One thing to keep in mind is that the writers have also dropped hints that this island and possibly some of its inhabitants have been here far longer. Like the following:
    – Foot of giant statue
    – Pirate ship
    – Ben having been on the island all his life (he has to be at least in his 40s, that could place his birth in at least the early 60s.
    – Purge of ‘hostiles’ by Dharma, indicating that they probably existed there before Dharma got there.

    To this point, we haven’t seen anything other than a giant stone foot to indicate that there was any civilization or structure here prior to ~1960. I am kind of expecting more information about the island history prior to Dharma’s arrival as the losties and the others interact more.

    With the theories of time distortion, as well as scientific research, you wonder if this isn’t a tale of mankind in the future, reaching back into the past and attempting to change the course of history of the human race.

    If they are from the future, or have information from the future, they would be able to get info on all of the losties. Some of the characteristics of the island such as the cloaking and power source could be explained as futuristic technology as well. Admittedly it doesn’t do a good job of explaining how a giant foot with four toes would change the course of human history.

  117. TheBlackGuardian says:

    [quote comment=”44889″]Most of the discussion and theories has centered around recent history. One thing to keep in mind is that the writers have also dropped hints that this island and possibly some of its inhabitants have been here far longer. Like the following:
    – Foot of giant statue
    – Pirate ship
    – Ben having been on the island all his life (he has to be at least in his 40s, that could place his birth in at least the early 60s.
    [/quote]
    Good point, there clearly has been a civilization on the island for a long time. Although, it should be noted, that most of The Others (including Ben) speak English with a modern American accent.

  118. Hammer says:

    [/quote]
    Good point, there clearly has been a civilization on the island for a long time. Although, it should be noted, that most of The Others (including Ben) speak English with a modern American accent.[/quote]

    Yeah, but could be just so they don’t have to use subtitles. It is an American show and most of us Americans only understand American English. 🙂

  119. Monica says:

    [quote comment=”44823″]MKS-

    I have studied all into lost continents and inner earth. Since I strongly believe this is some sort of cult and the war is brought up alot, I truly believe the island could be some sort of place like that. Most of my theories revolve around this…such as making a better race. Yes they were much more intelligient than us. I believe watching every episode, that this show, whether it will turn out that way or not, would have made a great movie about inner earth. Last nights episode only makes me feel stronger about it, because of eye patch guy saying you can leave and not come back… and he came by submarine. If the sub leaves, and they can’t find the signal, they may never get back there again. Also when the Portugese guys found the signal in the the cold, I assumed it was somewhere AROUND the North or South Pole, where supposedly(if you believe in that sort of stuff) you can enter inner earth, by submarine. Could Atlantis not been a continent at all but an inner continent? Groups of Nazis disappeared in the Arctic, they strongly believed in inner earth and ancient civilization. They wanted to create an Aryan race. Not saying it’s the Nazis, but this is obviously some sort of cult. Look at how they live. I don’t think Micheal and Walt are gone for good.

    Read Clive Cussler’s “Atlantis Found” for an intriguing mixture of the Nazi/South Pole history with a bit of fiction…

    About Rousseau:
    What is SHE is the last surviving member of the Dharma Initiative? She is a Scientist, and avoids Others/Hostiles at all costs – so they don’t find her out and kill her?

  120. Just another Joe says:

    hello group. and thanks for a profound discussion. although you have probably hashed this all out, here are some thoughts.

    I expect that the others draw on Dharma resources through the flight passenger list for the detailed knowledge of the losties. Remember how they knew everything about Juliette as they recruited her?

    About Locke, does it seem strange to anyone that:
    He was paralyzed when he came on the plane. His wheel chair must be on the island. How many times do you fly and not notice such passengers? Why does no losty remember this about him?

    Mikhail told the group that eventually they would let down their guard. He was just naturally moving that forward at the ‘fence’. Which of course he had falsely described as inoperable. The perpetual lying is in keeping with the others modus operandi. I would have got fed up long ago. Shot Mikhail on the spot (tv land that is!).
    As far as bargaining with hostages, the others do not trade themselves. Danielle said as much of Mikhail traveling with them.

    Why did he thank Locke for killing hem, though?
    Was it not Sayid he described as “weak”? I see it as he addressing each one individually. Other posts seem to think he was talking only to Kate all along.

    as far as the lists go, i got lost on those some time ago!

    It is strange to see Jack enjoying himself at Otherville. Have to think about that one. and everything else!

  121. stormclouds13 says:

    [quote comment=”44963″]
    About Locke, does it seem strange to anyone that:
    He was paralyzed when he came on the plane. His wheel chair must be on the island. How many times do you fly and not notice such passengers? Why does no losty remember this about him?
    [/quote]

    Rose remembers. She saw him shortly before they got on the plane. She had dropped her medication, and Locke picked it up for her. So they both know about each other. They had a conversation on the island in which Rose said she knew that Locke had experienced a miracle too.

    This is something we need to consider when theorizing that Locke killed Mikhail because he was about to reveal his past. He obviously didn’t feel the need to kill Rose.

  122. LostLurker says:

    Did Charlie really attach the note to the bird’s foot at the end? If you watch really closely as Claire releases the bird, it appears that the note is still in Charlie’s hand…you have to look quickly….is it me or did he palm the note instead? hmmmm

  123. samsandrasan says:

    I don’t believe Mikhail was going to say “paralyzed”. I’ve watched it over and over and he says “but you, John Locke; you I might have a fleeting memory of but, I must be confused. Because the John Locke I knew was ba…”.

    I hear either a “ban” or “bad” – maybe banned or badly.

    I think John and Rousseau wanted him dead for the same reason and it looked to me to be the same reason Mikhail is willing to die. Locke makes alot of eye contact with Mikhail even when Mikhail wasn’t speaking directly to him. Looked like communication to me.

  124. Hurley says:

    So something clicked for me when I watched this episode. I haven’t seen any posts on any of the websites that suggest this… I think that Mikhail gave us some major clues into the mechanics of the island.

    1. Clearly the island has something to do with manifesting one’s thoughts– Kate’s horse, Sayid’s cat, etc. Now when the group arrived at the sonic fence they had no idea what it was– its simply a line of towers placed about 30 yards apart from each other with metal domes hanging from the side (kind of like a school bell). When asked what its, Mikhail’s response is “What do you think?” What if he meant that literally– these towers are exactly what you think… in Sayid’s case a security device. When he says that the thought enter’s the groups mind and manifests itself as reality. Thus by thiniking it or speaking it Sayid cased the perimeter to become an active & deadly security device. Perhaps if Mikhail had simply walked up through it with out asking Sayid what he though it was he could have passed through no problem (after all he said it was disabled). Watch Mikhail’s reaction when Sayid says this– its almost like he knows the device has just been activated. Did he manipulate Sayid, knowing that Sayid’s fear and caution would create the security perimeter?

    2. The others live here in a place that can manifest one’s thoughts. The members of the group are not on “the list” because they are flawed– they are angry, frightened, weak, etc. Now if you lived in a community were the thoughts of the other members of the community would manifest themselves into reality– what type of people would you want on the island. Probably kind, loving, peaceful and compassionate: “Good people.” You certainly would not want people who are angry or fearful since their anger and fear would show up in some sort of physical form.

    Well I know that this is at the bottom of the the thread, but I would appreciate other thoughts on this.

  125. MKS says:

    Hurley,
    I think there might be some merit to the idea that you have to be free of doubts/ anger/ fear/ etc. to live amongst the others. But I think that the fence was active and going to kill Mikhail, which he knew. The reason why he wanted to die, said Thank You, is because he knew the Others would kill him (probably in a painfull way) if he got back to them. He had killed his partner (the woman). Even though she had asked to be killed, he could not be accepted back amongst the Others. Remember Ben telling Julia to help our guys escape? She was following his orders and in the process was forced to kill one of the Others. The Others were going to sentence her to death because of it, and Jack had to interfere in order to save her life. I think that same fate would have befallen Mikhail, and that is why he did not mind dieing (that is why he “tricked” Locke into killing him).

  126. dr_candlewick says:

    Interesting thought Hurley on the mind reading. By this time, I think we all have seen that the island/smoke monster interacts with the people with issues via these visions. Maybe that is one of the reasons that the others don’t want them along, because they would endanger them. I don’t think that we have proof that anyone, except for maybe Jack now, that has had these visions has been ‘assimilated’ by the others.

    Whatever mind reading is going on, it is not omniscient. Remember the conversation between Eko and his supposed brother right before he got killed, big disconnect there. The monster was obviously not happy with Eko’s response, and was surprised that he thought that he was actually his brother.

    I don’t think that I can buy into the ‘thought becomes reality’ concept yet. Some of the others were definitely predisposed to violence, remember what they were doing to Sawyer, and Karl. Also, a reality like that would be difficult to keep straight and avoid contradictions, e.g. one person thinks the fence is active, one thinks it isn’t whose thought wins?

    Another thing, in the old VW van, the Dharma person was the person who was dead. And obviously not buried. Kind of makes you think that Dharma was on the losing stick of any war with the hostiles. Look at Locke’s actions now, and he is fully committed to the Dharma cause, especially after Eko and the implosion renewed his faith. After this episode it was obvious that he was fulfilling what Dharma wanted him to do by blowing up the Flame. He was clever enough to find the C4, he also then found the manuals. He probably found some other direction on what he is supposed to do next, and is trying to fulfill that mission.

    If you follow Locke’s line of thinking, and the assumption that the smoke monster isn’t evil, then you could put the smoke monster (with the now defunct Dharma) on opposite side of the others. Bottom line, the others may be at odds with the island itself as well.

  127. Grace says:

    [quote comment=”44586″][quote comment=”44582″]So, if Patchy knew that Locke was in a wheelchair and almost spilled the beans on the group (who don’t know that about him), could that be the reason why he deliberately pushed him into the fence hoping he would die? Is him being in a wheelchair a secret worth killing for? Why?

    I’m really liking where the show is going in these last few episodes![/quote]

    And didn’t Patchy say “thank you”[/quote]
    Patchy saying “thank you” as he dies a horrid death is something that nobody else has picked up on, and I think has real significance. Why would he thank John?

  128. liesa says:

    I’m new to this, but I don’t think anyone has brought up Jack’s father’s name. Christian Shepherd. I mean, that’s got to have some significance, if only for its irony. He hasn’t been much of a Shepherd. Bad father, bad doctor. And yet evidently involved with a lot of the losties in one way or another. The others would certainly characterize their leader as a “shepherd” since they think of themselves as the “good ones”. Any thoughts?

  129. SpinPapi says:

    I just watched the ep again last nite. Did anyone mention noticing that Claire worked in a tattoo parlor? In one scene, she was putting an earring on a client. When the camera pulled back and the scene progressed, we could see dozens, maybe hundreds, of tattoo patterns around her. This can’t be a coincidence considering her brother Jack’s ink story.

    What do people think it means?

  130. mikki says:

    Since the others seem to have files on perhaps all of the losties, do you think at some point the others/Ben will reveal to Jack that Claire is his half-sister? Nobody is saying much about the revelation of Christian being Claire’s father and what that could mean to the ongoing story…if anything.

  131. Rola says:

    An interesting thing i heard was that the creators were thinking to end the series in a movie instead of a final episode. Did anyone hear anything like that, or is it just rumors? Andreas? I think that would be a really unique and awesome idea if they did that.

  132. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”45526″]An interesting thing i heard was that the creators were thinking to end the series in a movie instead of a final episode. Did anyone hear anything like that, or is it just rumors? Andreas? I think that would be a really unique and awesome idea if they did that.[/quote]
    Last week Andreas posted a link to an interview with Cuse & Lindelof on BuddyTV.com. The interview included this question and answer:

    BuddyTV: A little while back there was talk that there might be a Lost feature film at some point. Is that still alive?

    Damon Lindelof: It’s funny, you know, we hear like 24 is going to do a movie and you always have to think like, I don’t know how they or when they do that. The reality of it is we’re shooting the show for ten months out of the year and the other two months we are spending, cumulatively recharging our batteries but also beginning to generate stories for the following season and you can’t shoot a feature film in two months even if we went right into it. So as long as the show is on the air as a TV show, logistically there could be no movie. And more importantly, it’s somewhat exploitative to kind of say to the audience who watches the show, “Hey, now you’ve got to go and pay eleven bucks and go into the theater in order to stay caught up with the show.” It’s not like 24 where we could do a self-contained movie. The movie would really have to answer definitive questions, move the plot forward, you know and we just don’t know how to do that or whether or not it needs to be done.

  133. Rola says:

    Thanks Toeknee!! I didn’t get a chance to check out the interview with the creators. I do understand their logic in it, even though I’m sure Lost Fans would pay the money to go see the movie. We’re crazy and obsessed enough 😉

  134. Nick says:

    [quote comment=”44656″]Did anyone else think it was strange that the Russian thanked Locke for pushing him into the “fence”? It seems like the others can kill each other for their cause, but cannot kill themselves. He could have just ran into the fence himself right? Wonder if they have a warped moral code?[/quote]
    There have been a lot of Catholic and Bible references. If the others are somehow religious – as it seems that they are – this would explain why he thanked him, as many religious people view suicide as an damnable sin.

  135. Tina says:

    It almost seems like the others have martyr complexes–they’d rather die than betray whatever super secret project they’re working on.

  136. Jake says:

    Bondi Beach is in Sydney, Australia – it’s a great beach with beautiful women. Lots of sun & fun

  137. Nick says:

    If Mikhail was lying when he said that the security fence had not been functional for a long time, don’t you think its possible that he is also lying when he says that all of their communications on the island have stopped working since “the sky turned purple”?
    I certainly think this is a possibility, and that perhaps everything is running normally, just like the fence.

  138. Raphael says:

    In aboriginal dialect, Bondi means ‘place of long sand where irish man gets pissed and has fight’.

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