What are you up to John Locke?

Lost's John Locke

After seeing this week’s Lost season 3 episode “Par Avion”, the thing that stuck in many of our minds was Locke’s suspect behavior.

To be honest I really thought that Locke didn’t know that The Flame would blow up when he “entered 77” in last week’s episode, but the fact that he somehow managed to take a C4 explosive before leaving clearly changed my mind.

Would Locke still have entered 77 if he knew that The Flame would explode?
I’m convinced that he would, because as far as we know, his reason for entering “77” was that he believed Dr.Candle’s words in the video. If the station has been compromised by the hostiles, enter 77.

So how could Locke know that there were C4 charges in The Flame and why did he take one? I don’t know more than you, but it’s quite easy to guess that the C4 will play some role in a future episode. It’s entirely possible that the writers wrote the scene where we find out that Locke has taken one of the explosives simply because the C4 is needed further down the line, without there really being any dramatic mystery behind why he took it.

On the other hand, Locke probably didn’t join the expedition to save Jack. My guess is that he has some yet unknown plan or reason for wanting to find The Others. Maybe he really believed the captured Ben when he said that he was coming for Locke…

As if secretly taking a C4 wasn’t enough, Mikhail added more wood to the fire at the end of his little speech:

Of course I don’t know you Sayid Jarrah, how could I. And you Kate Austen are a complete stranger to me. But you John Locke, you I might have a fleeting memory of. But I must be confused, because the John Locke I knew was para…

The last word is probably “paralyzed”, and as you might recall, Locke hasn’t told anyone, except maybe Walt, about the fact that he was paralyzed from the waist down before crashing on the island. So the question is – when did Mikhail know a paralyzed Locke? There are a few different possibilities:

  • He knew or met Locke before flight 815 crashed on the island.
  • Locke is an Other sent to spy on the Losties like Ethan and Goodwin.
  • Considering that Desmond seems to experience repeating cycles of life where Charlie dies in different ways in each cycle, Mikhail could have met Locke in a previous cycle where the island didn’t cure Locke’s paralysis. However, this poses new questions since Mikhail would then have “a fleeting memory” of a previous cycle like Desmond’s flashes. Are The Others some form of time travelers?

Shortly after this was said, Locke pushed Mikhail through the sonic fence and he died. Did Locke know that this would kill Mikhail and did he kill him to prevent him from revealing something about Locke, or did he just figure that the best way to test if Mikhail was telling the truth about the fence not working was to push him through it and see what would happen?

Personally I think Locke had no previous knowledge of what would happen and decided that having Mikhail prove that he was telling the truth was a good idea, but considering Locke’s recent actions I would still sleep with one eye open just to be on the safe side.

What are your thoughts on Locke’s suspect behavior and Mikhail saying that he “knew” Locke?

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75 Responses to What are you up to John Locke?

  1. Tim Hettler says:

    I think Locke is more interested in “solving the puzzle” (read: learning the secrets of the island) than getting rescued. Like I said in a previous comment, Locke’s life is a lot better on the island than it ever was before the crash. I suspect if Locke was given a choice to stay or go, he would stay.

  2. MKS says:

    As I said in another thread, I think Locke might have been given some information by Smokie. It is also possible that there is/ was some information on Eko’s stick that we don’t know about yet. Locke was certainly fascinated by it, and it keeps coming up in conversation an awful lot.

  3. Carole Clark says:

    Locke told Rose about his paralysis.

  4. Toeknee says:

    I don’t think Mikhail ever met Locke. All the information he knows about Locke and the other Losties is based on the research the Others have done on them. Mikhail’s speech, which Andreas quoted, was in response to Sayid’s comment about him (and the Others) not being omniscient. I took Mikhail’s entire response to be sarcastic. The names of the Losties is just the tip of the iceberg of the information the Others have, so they are closer to being omniscient that Sayid realized. So, to put Sayid in his place, he starts rattling off names, sarcastically saying “I don’t know you”. When it came time to mention John, he wanting to put him in his place by pointing out that he knew Locke was paralyzed. While the names of the Losties is common knowledge among the Losties, Locke’s forme paralysis is not. Mentioning it was another part of the mind games the Others are so good at playing.

  5. Bobbi says:

    Well I do think Locke might know more, or at least he THINKS he knows more about the island. Didn’t he say he had some clear revelation in the sweat hut or something? Perhaps he has seen more into the mystery.
    But I thought that Patchy was just trying to provoke Locke by saying what he said. He obviously was trying to let them all know that he knew who they were by saying their last names, he was trying to creep them out. Then when he spoke to Locke, he said how he was sooo angry, and then almost said how he was paralyzed. After all, Kate and Sayid only use their first names, but they vary using John AND Locke to refer to him so Patchy couldn’t get same effect mentioning Locke’s last name.
    Perhaps he has met him somewhere sometime somehow, but i really just felt like he knew all about ALL of them, but was trying provoke Locke’s infamous-anger.

  6. Bobbi says:

    ToeKnee, you explained it so much better than me! – If only I had waited that extra minute!

  7. downthehatch says:

    I have a few theories on this. Probably wrong, but here goes 🙂

    I think Locke knew that entering 77 would do something. Mikhail stopped him the first time right before John was going to push the button. I think he saw the C4 when Kate and Sayid were not around and took it. I think once he saw it, he knew what was going to happen.

    I think he pushed Mikhail through the pylons because he suspected he was lying. Doing so would have proved he was not or would have killed him. I think John would do what it takes to keep his secret.

    Why? I think there are 2 possibilities and both lead to the same conclusion.

    I think either he is so determined to stay on that island he will do anything, even jeapordizing everyones chances of leaving, in order to stay.

    Or he might be a Dharma plant (not an Other) to infiltrate the Others and stop them from doing whatever they are doing. I can EASILY see John answering an Ad to “Save the world” or “find your destiny” and thus being recruited to do Dharma biddings. He may not know what exactly it is he’s supposed to do, but has enough information to figure it out. Several times it seems as though he is on a mission, but doesn’t have all the knowledge he needs to complete it..hence his musings of “What do you want me to do”. The only reason I can think of for him agreeing to do any of this would be the promise to walk again, which he can.

    The C4, I believe is to blow up the Sub.

    Now I think the reason Mikhail said what he did regarding seeing John before (it’s a stretch) I think the Others are living in the future and have knowledge of things because, like Desmond, they can see time differently, but understand it in ways he doesn’t. I think the Island exists outside of our time similarly to “Planet of the Apes”. Actually a little different than that…it doesn’t exist in the past, present or future…but all at the same time. Another guess is that perhaps when we see Walt and Michael again, they will be older.

  8. downthehatch says:

    FYI…Sayid used his last name when he got shot by Mikhail. Mikhail yells something about how no one is to go to the flame…we had a truce…blah blah ginger. And Sayid says his full name to Mikhail.

  9. Mr Ecko says:

    Locke is my boy. He is the reason I love this show so dang much. I refused last week to think he “accidentally” blew up the Flame station. He is a man of too much purpose and wisdom (at least on the island) to make a blunder like that. Sayid knows Locke is up to something. That something is obviously Locke’s alterior motives for wanting to find Others-ville.

    Think about it, Locke’s whole life has been one big mess. Every character on the show has “father” issues (and maybe the same is true to the Others who, according to the Russkie, came their to follow a “great man”…probably whoever this Jacob is), but Locke has REAL father issues. He literally had part of his body and soul taken by his own his flesh-and-blood. Here (on the island) he is “whole” again. Here he has purpose (something we all want). Here he is a “leader of men” (thanks to next week’s previews).

    Whoever posted before and said it has to do with what Benry told him last season about “coming for him…” is exactly right. Benry was nice to him and did not abandon him. Benry told him he was “one of the good ones”. Benry was part of the reason Locke LOST hope in the hatch by telling him it meant nothing to push the button (although I think Benry might not have known that the button and numbers actually were important as a gateway to the Underworld).

    Locke wants purpose above all else. The Russkie got inside his head with the “para…” comment. Locke’s on a mission to realize his destiny. He’s not an Other. He’s not a spy. He’s a man on a mission to confront the Others (Benry and likely Jacob) and find out exactly what his purpose in life is, or is supposed ot be.

  10. Lacenaire says:

    Hello.

    I think you are forgetting another suspicious couple of characters that seem to be plants of the «Others» or some «other others», namely miracle-believer Rose and magically-saved-and-found-by-Goodwin
    Bernard.

    Rose knew about Locke being paralized, she knew “in her heart” the tailies had survived and she prevented Hugo from blowing up the entire hatch with dynamite. She also knew the island had cured her with no doubts whatsoever.

    I would like Camelsmoker to give us his annalysis about how the “philosophers gang” might be pulling such a long-con on everyone on the island.

  11. Bobbi says:

    this is probably not good that I don’t remember this, but who is Jacob? Where did I lose track? lol.

  12. Luke says:

    I think Locke wants to stay on the island, and he’ll do whatever he can to destroy any chance of getting off. Just like when he knocked Syid in the head when they were trying to get a signal from a transmitter.

  13. Hammer says:

    We really don’t know yet who Jacob is…but at this point it is assumed that he is the at the top of whatever the Others are. Look him up at lostpedia.com

  14. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”44973″]this is probably not good that I don’t remember this, but who is Jacob? Where did I lose track? lol.[/quote]

    Jacob is the suspected name of the yet to be seen leader of the Others. Also referred to by the Others as “Him”. He is also the author of the “lists” both the Losties and the Others refer to that contain names of the plan crash survivors scheduled to be taken by the Others.

  15. Rick says:

    I agree with Mr Ecko. I don’t think that Locke is any different from the rest of the group in terms of how he got to the island. However, he’s motivated by a desire to figure the island out — to examine his purpose. It’s that he wants to stay/leave the island. It’s that he wants answers and his actions all seem to be with that justification.

    He took the C4 not because of some specific purpose (like blowing up the sub), but he’s confident he’ll find a good use for it as he pursues answers.

    Regarding the exchange where Mihkail was rattling of names, I agree with Toeknee. “I don’t know you” was pure ironic sarcasm aimed at Sayid’s comment about omnipotence. In reality, the others are omnipotent, but they do have some substantial background dossiers on the losties. “The John Locke I know is para…” shouldn’t be taken literally. Mihkail knows that it’s the same guy. He was simply making light of his knowledge regarding Locke’s paralysis in a somewhat backhanded manner.

    As for Locke’s justification for pushing him in to the fence, there were 2 outcomes for doing so.
    1.) He dies and is proven to be a liar. If he’s a liar, he’s a danger to them and his death is justified. And of course, the losties know not to go through.
    2.) He lives, proving that it’s safe to pass through. He’s also telling the truth, so keeping him around is a good thing.
    Both outcomes were “good”, so it was a perfectly logical move which doesn’t require some secret knowledge or ulterior motive.

  16. i *heart* jack says:

    i’m confused by the people who think locke was “testing” the fence. didn’t mikhail say that it was a security something-or-other? and wouldn’t that imply that some alarm would go off somewhere, the others would come after them and they’d be caught? why would locke want that?

  17. MuGS says:

    I’m not sure how to approach season 3’s Locke. In the previous two seasons he was by far my favorite character out of all of the Losties, however with him now becoming more mysterious (dare I say sinister?) than ever, John is starting to quickly slip out of my favorite character slot.

    In my opinion, he now has his own agenda and really doesn’t care too much how he achieves (or what it costs). Though I’m a bit curious to the theory of him using the C4 to destroy the submarine, mainly because in season one he knocked out Sayid and destroyed his transmitter… but that was due to the fact that he felt finding the signal wouldn’t be the wisest thing to do. Finding a submarine, on the other hand, would help everyone on the island; I’m not sure how destroying it would bring Locke any closer to unlocking the secrets of the Island, and instead would just be a faulty decision on his part, at the expense of everyone else’s freedom, to somehow better understand the Island.

    But who knows, maybe the stick told him to do it or something. Perhaps it’s what the Island asked him to do. All that’s left to do is wait and see.

  18. JoshSpazJosh says:

    I don’t think he’s an Other. Locke’s acting a lot more like he did in Season 1, where we have no idea whether he’s good or bad. He seems to be playing dumb a lot more.

    I think that something that’s key to all this is that we have no idea where Locke’s faith is at the moment. In flashbacks we see that he has repeatedly had faith in others (Locke’s dad, the undercover agent in “Further Instructions”) only to be repeatedly conned. In Season 1 he believed that destiny was benevolent, that it all converged at the hatch. Season 2, he opens the hatch only to find that his “destiny” has led to him pushing a button every 108 minutes. Locke wonders, has he been conned again? We see him lose his faith to the point where he forces a countdown to zero, only to find that the one time he has stopped believing could have led to the world’s destruction. Now, in Season 3, is Locke inclined to believe in the island more than ever? Is he confused? What’s his ulterior motive here? I think that this will be clarified in next week’s episode.

  19. Hammer says:

    I agree with most of these posts…he’s not an Other, but he isn’t dumb as suggested in “Enter 77”. To me he’s evolving to some extent, but his main purpose of investigation of why he’s there and his desire to stay on island is steadfast.

  20. Black Rock says:

    There’s definitely a chunk we’re missing here. Locke is intent on discovering his destiny. I believe that either the black smoke or the creepy-Boone-hut ritual has something to do with this. Or, I think that just hearing Ben say that he is “one of the good ones” is part incentive for him to pursue finding the others. Locke also is completely motivated by self-interest. He absolutely wants to remain on the island, and would disregard anyone else’s wishes to leave the island. The submarine-blow-up theory may seem like a bit of a stretch to me, but I think that we’re on the right track by saying that Locke 1)wants to find his destiny and 2)wants to stay on the island.

  21. i *heart* jack says:

    what does locke wanting to stay on the island have to do with other people leaving it? they’re not mutually exclusive are they?

  22. soularheart says:

    Its apparent that the others rather die than reveal anything! So even if Locke was an other, a spy or plant, it wouldn’t make sense that the patchy would give him away that easily!

    Locke’s faith in their predestined presence on the island is slowly but surely staring to fade! Maybe by indirectly pointing out the healing effect of the island on Locke’s legs, patchy wanted to remind him of how important it is for them to remain on the island! So that Locke would continue sabotaging! Maybe that’s why he wants to blow up the submarine!

  23. Hurley Burley says:

    Here’s my C-4 theory.After Locke enters 77 into the computer ,Dr.Candle appears back on the screen and tells Locke to grab a C-4 and go blow up the submarine.This is just one of my many thoughts after that episode.Did you notice how interested Locke seemed when the word submarine was metioned?Also when he,Kate and Sayid entered ‘the flame’,Locke seemed to have no interest at all with Patchy and was all about playing a silly game on the computer.I find that really odd for a man that in the past seemed so interested in all the going ons with Dharma and the Others.Without a doubt Locke is up to something.Who knows?

  24. Black Rock says:

    Sorry, to be clearer, I meant to say that Locke would jeopardize the safety of the other survivors of 815 and/or disregard their wishes to stay in order to insure that he stays on the island. (aka, do something like blow up a submarine that everyone else could use just so that it would make it impossible for him to leave that way.)

  25. Mark says:

    There is no mystery as to how Mikhail “knew” Locke. Remember, Mikhail also knew Kate and Sayid’s full names, he didn’t have to know Locke personally to know who he was and that he was paralyzed.

    We saw the information the Others are able to collect on their targets, as evidenced by Alpert’s foreknowledge of Juliet, and more explicitly, the dossier that Juliet had with everything in Jack’s life, up to and including his father’s 2-month old autopsy report.

    Mikhail is one of the Others. The Others have information on the survivors, as we’ve already seen.

    Mystery solved.

  26. Jake says:

    OK, let me see if I have this correct, a number of you (and others on different boards) think John Locke is either a spy for the others or Dharma. My question – since John was on the plane when it crashed, you all believe he/the others/Dharma planned the plane crash so John could infiltrate whichever group and he/the Others/Dharma KNEW HE WOULD SURVIVE.

    Interesting

  27. Mark says:

    Just to add emphasis to my prior post… the Others not only knew Jack’s dad died, had the autopsy report, and knew he was divorced… they even knew what had happened to Jack’s ex-wife AFTER they divorced, enough to confirm she was happy in her new life.

    These people seem to know *everything* about the survivors–there is no more complicated explanation necessary for how they would know John Locke was paralyzed before coming to the island, either.

  28. Pelinester says:

    Interesting comments in both of these most recent posts.

    I love the speculation around the Others perhaps having a similar ability to Desmond. If you recall there was a previous Dharma ‘Incident’ which could very well have led to someone else developing similar precognitive abilities.

    Here’s my thought on this – Perhaps Jacob was a Dharma initiative employee who was present during the first ‘Incident’. Perhaps his abilities are directly linked to why he is now part of the Others. This would explain a few other things, like why he is considered such a ‘brilliant’ man. His abilities could be more advanced than Desmond’s. Perhaps he creates his lists using his precognitive ability – determining what kind of contribution certain people would bring to his community? An interesting twist to this is that Ben ignored the fact that Jack wasn’t on Jacob’s list, because of his own need to be saved. Perhaps this means that they can’t foresee what kind of effect bringing Jack into their society would have. Perhaps the decision could ultimately bring The Others’ undone?

  29. Lesley says:

    I agree with BlackRock Locke is all about “cleaning up the mess he made” based on his sweat lodge experience. Patchy and the Others know everything about everyone based on their extensive research, hnce the para…comment. Now the computer in the farm house that may be something else. Remember Patchy says “it cheats”. I think that is a clue of some sort. In fact, I read (on Lostpedia maybe?) that the game Locke won was not checkmate at all. I also do not think the C-4 was Dharma’s, I think belonged to the Other’s. Locke received some kind of message from Dr. Candle after he entered 77 but I believe he actively blew the place up separate from the Dharma information he gained from the computer. (The question still runs through my mind of whether the farmhouse was built by the Hostiles after the underground Flame station was abandoned. Aren’t all the hatches undergrund??) I think Locke’s pushing Patchy into the “fence” was simply a pragmatic decision and the C-4 in his back pack is just insurance ammunition depending on his predicament in Otherville. Let’s face it we know how the guy holds a grudge and he probably blames Ben for the hatch implosion and his losing faith in the island. But like Jack said, now they have a Locke problem. He, just like Jack, has his own ideas so he doesn’t share his intentions or his knowledge in favor of furthering his own agenda – so somsetimes he comes across not knowing what he is doing. He doesn’t fool me, he is a sly one. It appears more and more like the Others have some ability to time travel, or that the island is really on a different lineal zone and the Others can sale the zones in some way. Perhaps everyone’s back stories are happening in real time as the island events are hapepning and each of the losties are jumping in and out without being able to control it. Maybe Desmaond’s ability is that he can now go forward where as everyone else cannot. And just maybe Locke now also has the same ability as Des but has not shared that information yet.

  30. Lesley says:

    Jeez, I must be tired, sorry for all the typos!

  31. locked says:

    i agree with the theory that locke got further instructions from the marvin candle video after entering 77. btw, remember he tried to contact the outside world first by satellite, and candle said it failed b/c the equipment wasn’t working, and the second thing he did was try to contact the outside world by SONAR. if the sonar wasn’t working, how did the sonar around the barracks kill Mikhail? and what’s the with cat?

  32. Gary says:

    I love reading everyone’s comments… always keeps the gears turning!

    Somehow locke has a military connection that we do not know about yet. It would explain many things about him (such as how he handles knives, guns, and rifles, the survival training, explosives, and the way he goes about organizing things). Also, I thought there was an episode from season 1 where Locke talks to somebody about him being in the military.

    As far as Mikhail knowing the names, it’s no secret that there is intelligence coming in from the outside (remember how Ben and Juliette had info on Jack when he was being held). Somehow, Mikhail was involved “in the know” at some point.

    It’s obvious that John has some mission in store. In several instances, it has been mentioned that John has seen the “heart of the island” and it’s something wonderful. I don’t know if that is what is driving him or something else. It’s obvious that he is searching for something because from day one he’s been out on almost every searching party. Of course, he was also witness to the map on the back of the door..so he knows more is out there.

    Speaking of explosives, what was Locke’s involvement with the dynamite from the Black Rock? I remember whatshisname who seemed to know so much got blown up. Just a thought.

    Anyway, another thing that strikes me is how the Others talked about how their sonar and subs were disabled. Was it just me or did it seem like they were not knowledgable bout the hatch, the magnet, or the failsafe?

    As far as Desmond’s premonitions with Charlie…I really wonder if it is limited to just Desmond (being a side-effect from the failsafe).

    Would like to know what people think.

  33. so lost says:

    I just found this blog recently and love all the theories! (even if it does diminish the goosebump factor as I see them play out).

    I just went back and re-watched the key parts in the past two weeks episodes and noticed something no one else has commented on yet. When Sayid, Kate and Ms. Klugh come out of the Flame Patchy has a gun to John. Locke tells Sayid not to give up Ms. Klugh for him because if Patchy wanted him dead he’d be dead already.

    Locke: “don’t listen to him. if he was going to kill me I’d be dead already. Sayid, do not let her go! He’s not going to do it. I’m the only thing keeping him alive.”

    then Ms Klugh starts spouting in Russian the “you know what to do” comments and Patchy kills her and tried to kill himself. Does this make sense to anyone??? I think it definitely shows that there’s more of a connection between Locke and patchy than is obvious and Locke knows more about what is going on than we realize. Was Ms Klugh there to kill Patchy? and why did John want to keep Patchy alive at that point? maybe he needed Patchy only under certain circumstances? because as soon as Ms Klugh is dead and the Flame explodes, John is all for getting rid of Patchy. And he was certainly willing to sacrifice him at the fence. My guess is that Patchy wanted to die because he knew that whatever was going happen if he made it back to Othersville was going to be far worse than even the brain fry he got at the fence. Hence the “thank you”. And I think that maybe John knew exactly what was going to happen, but whatever his use for Patchy was no longer mattered so he decided to give Patchy what he wanted. Keeping his prior paralysis may have been a side benefit, but I doubt that was his main motivation.

    but I’m definitely still confused about all this and haven’t been able to wrap my head around it yet. any thoughts???

  34. Maurice Tift says:

    I have to agree. I think Mikhail was afraid of returning to “The Others.” He mentions a “great man,” but also says that he is not referring to Ben. Is this great man the same one that Ben (when we knew him as Henry Gale) said was not very forgiving?

  35. Lesley says:

    so lost, you are right! John told Sayid that he was keeping Patchy alive. That could mean that Patchy told him something or that playing with the computer and his prior snooping gave him other information. Maybe John recognized Patchy from some prior “life”. And considering that John was in close proximity to Desmond when the failsafe happened why wouldn’t he also be able to see into the other timelines? But I do question why Ms. Klugh would not just off Patchy even if John was at risk. Is there some warped moral code that requires the Hostiles not take a life except under certain circumstances? I am betting that is the case. If you look at the encounters, even though they blew up the boat and shot Sawyer they give the Losties an opportunity to save themselves (excluding Pickett in that bunch). It seems to be the case with others encounters as well – They don’t shoot to kill. So maybe that is why Tom was so adamant when he asked Jack “what kind of people do you think we are”?

  36. SpinPapi says:

    [quote comment=”44967″]FYI…Sayid used his last name when he got shot by Mikhail. Mikhail yells something about how no one is to go to the flame…we had a truce…blah blah ginger. And Sayid says his full name to Mikhail.[/quote]

    Nice Far Side reference. =]

  37. Digitalsin says:

    Locke is the leader of the others.

  38. jacque & bray says:

    If Mikhail WAS an other…. why did he say ‘thank you’ when Locke pushed him into the electric fence?

    If this place is about different times like time travel… then why is Ben still recovering from surgery while Jack acts like he has been there for a while? But then, there are different islands and maybe Ben is on one and Jack is on another, now.

  39. Cassie says:

    I think that the Others have extensive files on everyone on that plane. Maybe Mikhail meant the Locke he “knows” (from the information in the file) is paralyzed.

    OR and this would be cool! Maybe Mikhail was able to communicate with the outside world and was once one of Locke’s email war game pals. Maybe Locke used to play the war games on computer as well as on boards (like he did at work). Maybe Locke told Mikhail about his condition.

    It’ll be interesting to see how it all unfolds.

  40. Toni says:

    why isn’t wednesday here yet!!! 🙂

  41. losty says:

    Locke doesn’t want to leave the island because he believes that he will become paralysed again. I think this is the only reason for the apparent sabotage.

  42. Ryan says:

    Could you please add a comma to the title of this post? It’s really annoying otherwise and doesn’t make any sense.

  43. Sam says:

    All in All this gives us 1 conclusion:
    Locke + Computer = BOOOM

  44. Jason says:

    Here’s something I don’t think anyone has mentioned.

    Mikhail seems a little bit confused when he’s about to mention that Locke was paralyzed; as if he’s a little baffled as to why this John Locke isn’t.

    Ben has a brain tumor that he needed surgery for, but Rose’s cancer was cured as was Locke’s paralysis.

    This all leads me to one conclusion: The Others not only do not have “access” to the island’s healing properties — or it does not affect them — and, in addition, I think they are totally UNAWARE of the healing properties of the island

  45. Lesley says:

    Perhaps the healing properties of the island are only effective for folks were not born on the island or they relate to the Losties being closer to the source of the electromagnetic anomaly.

  46. Omar Kamel says:

    I find the John Locke being an other notion interesting, but I’m not quite sold on it yet. One of the reasons is that his presence on the plane, and his survival of the crash would seem to be too great a risk to take, unless as I mentioned in some other post, we accept that the crash (including the survival of the losties) was staged. But well, that requires QUITE lot of work. Of course, the alternative, that it was all a fluke coincidence is also a bit hard to believe…

    My other reason for finding the Locke as Other notion hard to buy is the sequence of conversations he had with Henry/Ben during his time in the hatch. We’d either have to assume they were performing for US, or that Ben didn’t know Locke was an Other, and that Locke had some reason to pretend to Ben as well as all the losties. I just don’t buy it.

    Nothing in Locke’s history makes him seem like an Other to me. However, I do concede that it’s possible that he somehow feels a kinship to the Island, and that might somehow make him have some kind of respect for the Others. In another sense, his underlying lack of self-worth, as evidenced by the whole father thing and the whole Helen thing – might make him grasp on to the idea that he was one of the ‘good guys’ – as told to him by Ben.

    Dangerously, I think Locke might very well simply be playing it by ear. He plays games by nature, we know that, we also knows he suspects that most things on the island are of deeper significance. Those two fact alone might account for what I considered his very slack attitude regarding keeping Mikhail under watch, and his attraction to the game. Otherwise, it was either just dumb-ass stupid (which I yelled at him as soon as he LEFT the supposedly tied-up Mikhail to play chess) or, yes – we’d have to consider that he helped stage that whole thing with Klugh – in which case, I’d ask why? The results achieved don’t align with him being an Other.

    Also – I just had a look at the sequence when Locke is at the keyboard, and yes – first of all that’s not a checkmate. Maybe an inevitable mate, but not a checkmate. Also – when the computer said he won – well, Locke, despite the fact that we all think he’d rather stay on the island chose exactly those choices that anybody wanting help or wanting to leave the island would make – he chose 38 – mainland communication, then dunno what for sonar, and only then did he get faced with the choice of entering 77. Other? Once again, I don’t buy it.

    The other big question is WHEN did Locke get the C4 – he either got it earlier – during the time he was, as he said to Sayid ‘going over every nook and cranny’ – in which case, I don’t quite know why he wouldn’t tell Kate & Sayid about the C4. Arguably, maybe he didn’t trust either of them with that much C4, but that sounds like a weak argument, given the context. The other idea is that he found and retrieved the C4 after he entered ’77’ – which would just make him a bit of an idiot for not realizing the ’77’ was (we’re assuming this?) going to blow the Flame up.

    Hmm..

  47. Ched says:

    Did anyone else notice that mikhail was breathing when Kate bends down to look at him the last time? As Kate looks back to talk to Locke, you can definitely see Mikhail’s chest move up and down.

  48. cheapster says:

    Locke’s interest in taking explosive, I think, is part of his adventerous streak.

    He saw how important it was to use explosives to open the hatch, was the first to want to push the numbers (and stop pushing the numbers).

    The Dharma Initiative could have been in contact with Locke because Locke was paralyzed and looking for a way to walk again.

  49. Black Rock says:

    don’t you think that Locke could just want the C-4 for some kind of leverage against the others? Regardless of his motives for going to rescue Jack, C-4 could definitely be used to get the others to comply to his terms, whatever they may be.

  50. cheapster says:

    [quote comment=”45416″]don’t you think that Locke could just want the C-4 for some kind of leverage against the others? Regardless of his motives for going to rescue Jack, C-4 could definitely be used to get the others to comply to his terms, whatever they may be.[/quote]

    exactly!

  51. Omar Kamel says:

    The problem, or the confusion isn’t so much about why Locke would take some C4. That’s simple enough to understand, yes.

    The real ‘issue’ is his failure to mention it to Kate & Sayid. That’s the one that needs explaining. That, and whether or not his possession of the C4 indicates that he knew he was about to blow up the Flame.

  52. Omar Kamel says:

    As for Mikhail breathing. I’m pretty certain that’s a blooper and expect to see it confirmed as such any time now.

  53. Mr Ecko says:

    Obviously this week’s episode is going to shed major light on the Locke mystery, but I do not feel like he is as complicated as many are trying to make him out to be. He’s had a crappy life; he was paralyzed; he now can walk (the lame walk, the blind see); and he is a “leader of men”. The Island is his sanctuary, and the theories that he’s blew up the building and may end up destroying the submarine are VERY interesting and would make sense. Like Rose said to Bernard last season, “Why would I want to get off this island?”(bad paraphrsing).

    The reason the Others think Locke is good is for the same reason they consider themselves good…he recognizes the uniqueness and power of the Island. He believes in submitting his will to that of the Island’s. He and Ben (12th, and youngest, child of Jacob/Israel) shared a few “moments” last season and Benry saw that Locke (and probably Jack) is a man with flaws, but with good intentions. The Others have some sort of “Walden Two” commune thing going on and Locke is just the sort of man who would buy into that way of living.

    Locke’s prior experience with communes ended poorly, but that brings me to my final thought (which I said the moment this character appeared on screen last fall): that cop, Eddie, is an Other who was “recruiting” (by observation and interaction) Locke. Any thoughts on that?

  54. XtraCripsy says:

    I don’t know how much importance should be given to the Locke character.

    I just finished “Bad Twin” by Gary Troup (purgatory), boyfriend of Cindy the flight attendant, and also on the ill-fated flight 815. John Locke the philosopher is mentioned in the novel: “Fascinating guy. 17th century Brit, amazingly advanced. Huge influence on Thomas Jefferson. Locke argued that the highest goal of our intelligence is the careful and constant pursuit of true and solid happiness…he is saying that the best use of our reason is in learning to be happy.”

    The main mythology of the novel though is the story of the two identical twin Widmore brothers, one evil, one good, who each seek the inheritance of the rich father for different purposes. This is the Jacob/Esau theme that might be applicable to Lost. It just so happens that the evil twin, Cliff, was collaborating with Mittelwerk of the Hanso Foundation.

    The Widmore family (Charles and Penelope) and the Widmore Corp. also figure into the Lost series. Widmore Construction was contracted by the Hanso Foundation to build the Stations. It also sponsored Henry Gale’s balloon adventure, and Widmore Labs produced Sun’s preg test, and the vaccine Ethan gave to Claire.

    Towards the end of the book, there is talk about a cycle of evil followed by a cycle of good. This immediately reminded me of Desmond’s flashback, and his cycling multiple times through the island experience to change the course of history.

    Does Jack have an evil twin who joined with Mittelwerk to setup the Hostiles on the Island, and is Jack now there to reverse their evil plan? Or does Christian Sheppard have an evil twin who is leading the Hostiles/Others?

  55. scottc13 says:

    I think Locke should have mixed up some of that hallucinogenic paste he used on Boone, and see if he could get Patchy to speak instead of frying him.

    I think Russo interupted him, because he knew her name was next, and was afraid the losties would find more out about her thank she wants them to know.

  56. Chris says:

    When Locke went into the house to check things out, Sayid and Kate were holding a gun on Patchy. Then, when Locke was first playing chess and Patchy entered the doorway of that room, Locke didn’t even flinch. He wasn’t at all afraid or on guard. Even if he knew that Patchy had just removed Sayid’s bullet, he still should have had his guard up. Instead, they had a casual conversation about playing chess on the computer. I think it already seemed like they had a secret connection at that point.

  57. jack johnson says:

    I think that desmond’s flashback episode was too unique to not hold importance in the big picture of things. Reading the other posts I thought it would be interesting if the Other’s had similar ability to perceive the future and therefore change it–is that not what dharma was sent to do originally, change the numbers in the equation that predicted eventual doom?

    That being said, I think that Jacob must have the best abilities to control his power and is therefore the leader and able to formulate lists, etc. He is trying to change the course of events (reason why they brainwashed Karl into thinking that ‘things change’).

    This leads me to why Mrs. Klugh and mikhal were willing to die–I think that like desomond they after experiencing intense drama they automatically go back to a point in time where they can change the course of events.

    It just seems to me that Lost seems to put so much emphasis on the flashbacks that the ability to have memories seems so important to the storyline.

  58. XtraCripsy says:

    Time is not linear on this island. The series could very well end with the crash of flight 815 will all passengers dying, but with the future irrevocably changed through their action while on the island.

    Ben might be Aaron, Claire’s baby or Sun’s baby. I think Adam and Eve could possibly be a pair of Losties.

    Maybe at the end, the Losties will be returned to the real world, back in time, early enough in their lives to prevent their trouble since they now know the future.

  59. Scottc13 says:

    Adam & Eve = Nikki & Paulo

    What other foolish reason could there be for them to be introduced at such a late point

  60. Bruce says:

    Numbers again…

    I was looking at the Periodic Table, noticed Element 108.
    http://www.speclab.com/elements/108.htm
    D(h)armstadt Group?
    Hahn(so)?

  61. ChuckD1859 says:

    This seems quite simple to me. We don’t know that Mikhal isn’t one of the Others, and was just pretending to be separate from them. He may have some role/post out there in the middle of nowhere.

    Given this, assume that he is one of the Others, thus he has access to all the information about all the Losties, just as it was shown when they had Jack trapped and Ben walked in with an entire dossier on Jack. The Others have access to information in the outside world, the outside world however doens’t know that John Locke isn’t paralyzed anymore, which is why Mikhal didn’t know that John was no longer paralyzed…

    …simple as that.

  62. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”45398″]Did anyone else notice that mikhail was breathing when Kate bends down to look at him the last time? As Kate looks back to talk to Locke, you can definitely see Mikhail’s chest move up and down.[/quote]

    Yeah and Claire’s mom swallowed in one of her scene’s…they are real people that aren’t really dead or commatose.

  63. MKS says:

    Could it be that John Locke is not really John Locke? Maybe it’s just a alias. His father (and many others in his flashbacks) only called him John (could have been John Smith for all we know). Maybe the real John Locke was paralyzed, and that is who Patchy was talking about. Our Locke could have been trying to hide from the law under an assumed name (maybe the name of a paralyzed man). He might have killed that cop, remember? Maybe the reason John pushed Patchy into the fence was because he did not want his real name revealed. Also could be the reason why Russo interrupted- knowing Patchy was going to turn to her next and call her by a different name than the one we know her under. There have been several people on the island who have lied about/ withheld their real names, so it would not be a first. Any thoughts on this?

  64. XtraCripsy says:

    MKS: OK, so he’s masquerading as John Locke, and the Others know it. That means he has the motivation to leave the island, since he’s not really cured from paralysis.

    Why did he whack Sayid in the head when he was trying to send out a radio signal?

  65. Tina says:

    John Locke is John Locke and John Locke used to be in a wheelchair and tonight, we find out why.

  66. Elise says:

    To everyone who said that John Locke couldn’t be a spy for the Others or a Dharma worker because it seems too complicated to engineer a plane crash in which he survives, think about it for just a second. Goodwin wasn’t really in the plane crash, but he was a spy just the same. If Locke is a spy (which by the way I do NOT think he is) he could have just run onto the beach in the confusion and layed down as though he were one of the survivors.

    Sorry, I just can’t stand logical flaws…

  67. Toeknee says:

    Elise, are you saying John was not on the plane? Different flashbacks have shown him on the plane, and in the airport (having a brief encounter with Rose).

  68. theOtherdave says:

    [quote comment=”45558″]Time is not linear on this island. The series could very well end with the crash of flight 815 will all passengers dying…[/quote]

    And what we see is just another timeline of reliving the past. I guess that could explain why the ‘physics’ of so many survivors in a really bad plane crash turned out the way it did- kinda incredible.
    And then if this COULD be a possibility, then we return to the theory of living in hell / purgatory / another dimension, etc. All dependant on each persons perspective.

  69. theOtherdave says:

    I don’t want to go in that direction of theories. As much as I think it could be fun.

  70. Elise says:

    Toeknee – that’s true, I guess I should explain myself better. I think that the different time streams might account for John being “on” the plane without actually being on it – if that makes any sense.

    Although because I don’t understand well how the time travel thing works (in the Lost world) I can’t say for sure, and I’m inclined to believe he was on the plane and is not a spy.

    Sorry for my logical flaw…I hate my own logical flaws too. *sheepish grin*

  71. s stallsmith says:

    IF LOCKE’S DAD IS THE ONE THAT SAWYER IS LOOKING FOR….IS HE SAWYER’S DAD OR DID HE JUST CON SAWYER’S MOM? FILL ME IN; NEW TO THIS WEB STUFF ON LOST. I KNOW SAWYER KILLED THE WRONG GUY EARLIER IN THE SERIES; IS THIS RELATED ANY HELP WOULD BE HELPFUL, THXTO THE LETTER HE HAS CARRIED WITH HIM SINCE HE WAS A BOY?

  72. STU says:

    [quote comment=”45123″]so lost, you are right! John told Sayid that he was keeping Patchy alive. That could mean that Patchy told him something or that playing with the computer and his prior snooping gave him other information. Maybe John recognized Patchy from some prior “life”. And considering that John was in close proximity to Desmond when the failsafe happened why wouldn’t he also be able to see into the other timelines? But I do question why Ms. Klugh would not just off Patchy even if John was at risk. Is there some warped moral code that requires the Hostiles not take a life except under certain circumstances? I am betting that is the case. If you look at the encounters, even though they blew up the boat and shot Sawyer they give the Losties an opportunity to save themselves (excluding Pickett in that bunch). It seems to be the case with others encounters as well – They don’t shoot to kill. So maybe that is why Tom was so adamant when he asked Jack “what kind of people do you think we are”?[/quote]
    DOES ANYONE RECALL THAT THE OTHERS BELIEVE IN “AN EYE FOR AN EYE”? JUILETTE WAS TO BE KILLED FOR THE MURDER OF THE GUY WHEN KATE AND SAWYER WERE ESCAPING? INSTEAD THEY GAVE HER A NASTY BRANDING ON HER BACK. AND ARE THEY OTHERS THE “HOSTILES”? IF THE OTHERS WERE RUNNING MIKHAIL’S PLACE; WOULD THEY BE THE HOSTILES INDICATED IN THE “GAMING” SYSTEM JOHN PUNCHED 77 INTO? ANY THOUGHTS ON THAT ONE?

  73. Hammer says:

    Kudos to all of us who felt that Locke wasn’t being dumbed down by the writers and actually was sticking to character!

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