The Man from Tallahassee

John Locke in Lost - The Man from Tallahassee

Lost has really been gearing up lately, delivering great episodes each week. I don’t know when I was this excited to see an upcoming episode… alright, it was last week, but with the ending of last week’s Lost episode “Par Avion” things are really starting to get interesting.

Kate, Locke, Sayid and Rousseau have traveled to “The Barracks” to save Jack and Rousseau’s kidnapped daughter Alex. But apparently Jack has been better off than they thought, because in the last shot of last week’s Lost episode, he was smiling and playing football with The Others.

In tonight’s Locke centric Lost Season 3 episode, we will find out why Jack is in such a good mood.

This is ABC’s official description of “The Man from Tallahassee“:

Warning – Spoilers!

“The Man from Tallahassee” – Ben tries to persuade a determined Locke to call off his destructive plan by offering him some of the secrets of the island, and Kate’s reunion with Jack does not go off as planned when she discovers that he has made a deal with “The Others,” on “Lost,” WEDNESDAY, MARCH 21 (10:00-11:00 p.m., ET), on the ABC Television Network.

Regulars know the drill by now – feel free to comment and discuss the episode in the comments but make sure to have read all the comments before adding your own and don’t repeat things that have already been said. Have fun!

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333 Responses to The Man from Tallahassee

  1. Brett says:

    Although the episode has not aired yet (half hour away) we are already sure that Jack is going to be allowed to go home (off the island). However, didn’t we learn that no one can leave the island anymore ever since the light in the sky incident?

  2. Davis says:

    Is it too early to crow about Alex’s paternity?

  3. mb says:

    this episode is AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. mikey says:

    poor locke 😥

  5. Dylan says:

    Very interesting developments. I can’t wait for the next one.

  6. Christine says:

    Who exactly is the “Man from Tallahassee” that Ben summoned? Is it Locke’s father? Did BEN summon Locke’s dad into that box, and try and convince Locke that HE summoned him? Or is the “Man from Tallahassee” someone else?

  7. desmondo says:

    So we’ve been watching “Sphere” this whole time?

  8. stormclouds13 says:

    Aaaaaaahhhhhhhhh! *head explodes*

    Okay, I’m convinced now more than ever that Locke’s dad is the guy Sawyer is looking for. I’m guessing Locke’s dad is the man from Tallahassee, and I’m now wondering what significance that could have.

    Love the imagery of Locke opening another “hatch” when he boarded the sub.

    Ben is manipulating everyone, so did the island really heal Locke and bring his dad there or is it all part of Ben’s elaborate plot? Can’t wait for next week!

  9. tboof says:

    Methinks Locke should borrow a page from another legendary TV character. Remember the Seinfeld episode where George decides that every decision he has ever made has been wrong, and then decides to do the opposite of whatever should occur to him? For the love of God, man…dig REALLY deep next time.

  10. Tasha says:

    I was thinking the man was somebody else. Now after reading the comments, I guess his dad was from Tallahassee? I am a little confused but I feel really bad for Locke. His life sucked!

    They showed a guy twice in this episode that I thought was Micheal. I didn’t record it but did anyone put it in slow motion to see? One charged at Kate. The other was the one that Ben told to get the guy from Tallahassee. I might be off here.

  11. Scottc13 says:

    OK, that was my favorite episode this season!! Wasn’t the guy who uncuffed Locke at the end the same guy who recruited Juliet to the island?

  12. carebare says:

    yeah, that was the guy that recruited juliette…. what a geat episode!!!!!

  13. Christine says:

    I wonder who was going to pilot the submarine to take Juliet and Jack home. SOMEbody had to pilot it- and I wonder who it was going to be, and if that person knew that it couldn’t return (or could it??)

  14. carebare says:

    so, does anyone think that we (and locke) could be just seeing another manifestation of the smoke monster? i mean, it kind of seems to show whatever they’re thinking about or want the most (eko and his brother, hurley and dave, jack and christian) and ben kept bringing up locke’s dad in asking him about being in a wheelchair… is this just another way for ben to manipulate the situation??? (since alex seems pretty sure that ben likes to do that) … speaking of alex, way to go for her finding out about her mother!

  15. Tasha says:

    So can someone clarify this? Is the submarine the only way off and on the island? I thought they had a boat? Well they did, but can you leave by boat?? Or airplane?? Because don’t airplanes come by and drop off food? Wouldn’t that be connection to the outside world?

  16. laur says:

    im pretty sure when desmond turned the key it threw every thing off such as the boat but some how the submarine is still able to get off

  17. Mr Ecko says:

    Locke’s connection to the Island (and Smokey the Monster)enables him to walk and get answers from it when he wants. That’s what make me thinks a definite “God”/”spiritual” connection exists. I think Smokey is like the Holy Spirit (or maybe an “angel”) and while it showed others death and destruction and darkness, it showed Locke “a beautiful light”.

    The first shall be last and the last first. Locke, I’d say, has been “last” for a long time, even though he has a good heart.

  18. Connie says:

    I think you might be right about the guy Sawyer is looking for might be the same guy as Locke’s father. This episode was unbelievable. My jaw dropped when he opened the box. I don’t know what I am going to do until next week. Did anyone see the previews for next week? Did Sun hit Sawyer?

  19. mr jones says:

    can someone clarify… is lockes dad “the man from tallahassee?”

  20. mr jones says:

    …and i don’t recall, who is sawyer looking for? I suppose i should brush up!

  21. i'dgetlostwithsawyer says:

    Well all I was thinking during Ben’s box talk was “Step 1. Put a hole in the box”… I agree that Locke’s con-man dad is connected to Sawyer — perhaps that is even Sawyer’s real dad. Where do we think Rousseau went off to when she left Kate, Sayid, and Locke — and how come she didn’t say hello to her daughter when she saw her all alone in the jungle? And HOW do they develop photos on the island — Ben had so many of Alex as a child!

  22. Jorgito says:

    Someone kill Charlie, he is annoying and Locke should kill his father. I guess I’d like to see more killing. I’d love it if the show took a turn to a more ‘Lord of the flies’ type show.

  23. i'dgetlostwithsawyer says:

    All Ben said was “Get me the Man from Tallahassee” — and next we see the dude from Mittelos Bioscience, and then we are shown Locke’s dad. So either the man from tallahassee is Locke’s dad, which seems more obvious — or maybe it could be that Mittelos Bioscience guy — who was in FL in Juliet’s flashback, so perhaps could be from Tallahassee? This could be a bit far-fetched. Anyway, that guy looked so creepy in his Other garb — and it seemed like Ben was comfortable talking in front of him about his role and relationship with the Others as a leader and how “he would have been ruined” either way — in front of him.

  24. mr jones says:

    i think idgetlsot is probably on the right page. I think the mittelos guy is “the man for Tallahassee.” And ben’s comfort with him, seems unlike the way ben has acted around anyone else. Im thinking this guy is not only “the man from tallahassee,” but also maybe “jacob.” what do you guys think?

  25. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”45897″]Is it too early to crow about Alex’s paternity?[/quote]

    I’m not sure what you’re getting at – I think we knew Ben was Alex’s “father”, but some people claim that he’s her biological father. I think he’s simply her adopted father, as many here have stated – they stole her from Rousseau and he raised her.

    [quote comment=”45916″]so, does anyone think that we (and locke) could be just seeing another manifestation of the smoke monster? i mean, it kind of seems to show whatever they’re thinking about or want the most (eko and his brother, hurley and dave, jack and christian) [/quote]

    That’s what I was trying to figure out. At first I thought it was just a vision due to Smokey, and Ben controls Smokey and this box is where it is kept. But after thinking about it a little more, I believe Locke’s dad is really there, and he is “the Man from Tallahassee”. Remember, Ben told “Richard” to get “the Man from Tallahasse”, and Richard is the guy who recruited Juliet, and ends up unlocking the door where Locke’s dad is kept. So this is part of Ben’s manipulation of John, but for what purpose? And when exactly did they capture him and bring him to the island? Before the crash? After Ben escaped from the Losties and had learned more about Locke? Did Ben know Locke would come to the Others’ camp, so he was keeping his dad there for whenever the occasion arose? Does this tie into Ben’s original trip to the Losties’ part of the island? As usual, a few questions were answered, but many more were raised. Great stuff!

  26. Seamus says:

    Locke and the manifestation of his father remind me of Jack and those episodes where he would see his own father walking around.
    Could it be Locke’s father isn’t really there and Ben is somehow making him see things.

  27. thedude says:

    Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.

  28. Toeknee says:

    Another issue….Ben told Jack he would release Sayid and Kate when Jack leaves the island. So now that there’s apparently no way off the island, they are presumably prisoners, indefinitely. And what is Jack’s and Juliet’s status? They were just biding their time until they could get on the sub and go home. Now what? Are they prisoners too? Who’s going to rescue them all? Rousseau? Alex?

  29. FMGreenSteve says:

    Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!

    That episode was *perfect*! It had a little bit of everything that I’ve come to love about Lost.

    Terry O’Quinn is extremely talented; this episode really displayed his range of acting skills.

    I’m in agreement that The Man From Tallahassee is Locke’s dad, and connecting him to the man Sawyer has been searching for makes great sense. I like that theory a lot; it adds another character connection.
    I briefly considered that perhaps it wasn’t actually his dad, that it was an apparition, but I think it’s much more dramatic and meaningful for the show to make it the actual person.

    There was a lot of important information about the island that was divulged, I can’t wait to watch it again and dig into the dialog.

    I think the men who were gaurding Jack’s house are somehow involved with piloting the submarine, they were the ones walking Jack and Juliet there when they caught Locke. They appeared to be very “military”…

    Sayid spilling the beans to Alex about her mom was another brilliantly acted scene. Sometimes Sayid suffers from a bit of over-acting, but tonight was spot-on.

    Lost is on a major upswing since it’s return from the break and this season is shaping up to be the best one yet, – if they can keep producing qualitty episodes like the past 5 or so.

    Anyway, I’m done talking, I’m looking forward to reading the comments that should start pouring in soon.

  30. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”45943″]Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.[/quote]

    Yeah, that really bugged me. It’s a major flaw in the story/plot, but I’ll let it slide because the rest of the episode was perfect.

  31. KJ says:

    I agree that Ben is not Alex’s biological father. Just the guy who got dibs on raising her after they took her from Rousseau. It’s not like these people don’t have a history of stealing children, after all.

    I also agree that Locke’s dad is probably TMFT. I’m wondering, though, if he’s been living on the island for a while, unaware of the Others. He could’ve gotten there somehow shortly after knocking Locke out of the window (the cops did say he’d disappeared, after all). He just looked terrified, and a little beat up, when they opened that door (which, by the way, I totally called before it happened, but still enjoyed the reveal). This makes me think that he’s been living, watched by the Others, and when Ben said to “get” him, some people went to capture him and bring him in.

    I hadn’t thought about the barracks being in the middle of nowhere with a random submarine dock right there. That is, um, odd, but I wouldn’t call it a MAJOR flaw in the plot. Just a continuity error. YMMV.

  32. STU says:

    Wasn’t Juliette a fertitlity specialist of sorts? I am beginning to believe the Others were/are infertile; that may be why they kidnapped the children. Why Alex may not be “related” to Ben…Anyone have any thoughts on that?

  33. Waitaminute says:

    Mikhail mentioned a powerful guy who was the boss, apparently over Ben, when he was talking about the list and their flaws, etc. Anyone think Locke’s dad could be the guy in charge of the island. I mean, it’s pretty mean to dupe Locke a second time with the prisoner act, but it seems about right when you think about his life so far. That’s way farfetched, but I thought about it when they showed him in the box.
    And yeah, methinks regardless of his dad’s role that his dad is in fact the man from Tallahassee.
    Anyone else wonder why Kate didn’t scream, “What is going on here? Who are these people?” at Jack when they were in the billiards room? He seemed to know something that put him at ease. And it had to be something beyond the fact that he was getting off the island. It’s not like you can catch a sub home and come back with the Navy SEALS within a few days.
    The magic box and the smoke need to be explained to me…

  34. Tasha says:

    Didn’t Locke’s dad work for Hanso or something at one time?? Or was that from the Lost experience?

  35. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”45950″]Didn’t Locke’s dad work for Hanso or something at one time?? Or was that from the Lost experience?[/quote]

    I recall a website (maybe it was http://www.hansocareers.com ?) that was deemed a hoax that included a picture of Lockes dad on “the board of directors.” This was all during the end of Season 2/the beginning of The Lost Experience

  36. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”45951″][quote comment=”45950″]Didn’t Locke’s dad work for Hanso or something at one time?? Or was that from the Lost experience?[/quote]

    I recall a website (maybe it was http://www.hansocareers.com ?) that was deemed a hoax that included a picture of Lockes dad on “the board of directors.” This was all during the end of Season 2/the beginning of The Lost Experience[/quote]

    Drrr…or maybe I’m thinking about Penny’s father.

  37. KJ says:

    [quote comment=”45949″]Mikhail mentioned a powerful guy who was the boss, apparently over Ben, when he was talking about the list and their flaws, etc. Anyone think Locke’s dad could be the guy in charge of the island.[/quote]

    This is a good idea, but I don’t think Locke’s dad is the Big Boss. It seems like whatever’s been going on there has been going on longer than Locke’s dad would’ve been there. I could be wrong about that, but with Ben having lived there his whole life and all of that, that seems to put a crimp in the timeline. Of course, what is time to the folks on Lost, anyway?

    But aside from that, I’m not sure that the Big Boss would come running whenever Ben wanted him, anyway. I’m guessing the Big Boss, whoever he is, might actually have a pretty big bone to pick with Ben. Remember when Jack first started doing the surgery on Ben? Tom or Danny (I forget which) mumbled something about Jack not being on Jacob’s list at all. If Ben made his own list to serve his own purposes and didn’t do what the Big Boss wanted, I think he might be in some trouble.

    I could be way off with all of this, but I’m just thinking out loud here.

  38. stormclouds13 says:

    I don’t think anyone has yet mentioned the fact that Ben’s refrigerator was filled with Dharma food products. This again brings up the question of the food drops and why Dharma is still dropping food regularly if in fact they were separate from the Others and have been “purged” from the island.

  39. Chex Mix Guy says:

    Locke, I am your father. Does anyone see the significance of John Locks and the 17th century philosopher of the same name?

  40. patience says:

    The guy from Mittelos Bioscience name is Dr. Richard Alpert, when ben said, “Richard, get me the man from tallahassee” He was talking to the man from from Mittelos Bioscience. Then we see Ben, Locke and the guy that recruited Juliet (aka Dr. Richard Alpert) open the door to Lockes father (aka the Man from Tallahassee.)Hopefully that clears it up. BTW, great episode can’t wait for next week. Also Dr. Richard Alpert shares the name of a Doctor who was kick out of Harvard along with Timothy Leary because of research on LSD, intresting tidbit.

  41. patience says:

    kicked out

  42. Anon says:

    [quote comment=”45943″]Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.[/quote]

    There’s an underwater passage that leads to a lake in the middle of the island. Either that or the island subway system that’s alluded to in Sayid’s map.

  43. gigi says:

    Has anyone noticed that Mittelos is an anagram for “lost time”? Lost Time Bioscience makes a lot of sense given the above theory.

  44. dino says:

    [quote comment=”45966″][quote comment=”45943″]Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.[/quote]

    There’s an underwater passage that leads to a lake in the middle of the island. Either that or the island subway system that’s alluded to in Sayid’s map.[/quote]

    Not the latter. Alex and John walk through the jungle to the dock. Not necessary to use any subway.

  45. Erick Holguin says:

    “Lost” is a remake of the 1940’s Frank Capra film, “Lost Horizon” as you can see even the name is similar. The film is also about a plane crash and a secluded civilization. The island serves as a shangri-la for the inhabitants. I strongly suggest you go find this movie and you will know how lost ends and what it is all about. or i could tell you. Locke will leave the island and be crippled again. Jack will also try to leave but he sees that he doesn’t belong in the real world and attempts to return to the island and eventually find it after seven years. It teaches a lesson to find a place where you are trully happy. another spoiler is that, have you notice nobody has needed a haircut? thats because everybody has a lifespan of 200 years and dont really change. Its all based on the movie “Lost Horizon”. I just thought I might share this with the world.

  46. soularheart says:

    [quote comment=”45973″]”Lost” is a remake of the 1940’s Frank Capra film, “Lost Horizon” as you can see even the name is similar. The film is also about a plane crash and a secluded civilization. The island serves as a shangri-la for the inhabitants. I strongly suggest you go find this movie and you will know how lost ends and what it is all about. or i could tell you. Locke will leave the island and be crippled again. Jack will also try to leave but he sees that he doesn’t belong in the real world and attempts to return to the island and eventually find it after seven years. It teaches a lesson to find a place where you are trully happy. another spoiler is that, have you notice nobody has needed a haircut? thats because everybody has a lifespan of 200 years and dont really change. Its all based on the movie “Lost Horizon”. I just thought I might share this with the world.[/quote]

    Thanks for the tip! Sounds VERY interesting!!

    Overall this was a GREAT episode!!!

  47. Lesley says:

    Excellent! Anyone else think that Ben might be interested in the Losties because they seem to be able to “think outside the box”? (Horse, cat, Dave, Locke’s lack of paralysis – none of the Losties have been in the box yet, right? Also, Ben kept referring to “my people” and it appears there is a power struggle going on inside of the Hostile society. Ben needed to have the sub blown to bits to…. keep Jacob from coming back to the island, keep Jack and Juliet from leaving……I recall from TLE that food drops continue into perpetuity, automatically right? So now we have no way off the island and the communications station is blown up and they have a pandora’s box of sorts. I am loving this season, it just keeps getting better and better! I am sure there is plenty we missed, cannot wait to watch it again tonight!

  48. Fluca says:

    I know this is not really relevant to the story, but I was wondering if I’m the only one giggling whenever the guy from Mittelos appear on screen (he is Batmanoel, from The Tick :P)…

    On a more serious note, I think is pretty clear that he is NOT the man from Talahasse, because if you watch carefully, when Ben says to summon him, the person he is talking to is Batmanoel ^^ (pay attention to the voice and dark hair).

  49. barbarella says:

    “The Anomaly”. This is a really minor thing I picked up on, but it woke me up at 3am (…yes, I need to get a life). At some point last night Ben mentions that “the anomaly” wiped out communications with the outside world. Didn’t the 2 Russian guys in the Arctic call it an “anomaly” as well at the end of LTDA when they called Penny and said they’d “found him”? Could there be some connection between our Russian Patchy, Ben, and the Arctic guys?….and possibly Penny? OK, it’s a long shot.

  50. Fluca says:

    Also, Ben says to John:
    “I can show you things, things I know you want to see very badly”. And procedes talking about “the box”…
    I think this is the key to the everything… “the box” or the island itself is able to manifest (in physical or ethereal form) people’s deepest desires, BUT, at a price.
    The price being repentance.
    But, in John’s case, the island or “the box” has gone even further, giving him the hability to walk again, and that’s because he already was pure of heart.
    And last, but not least, the price John will have to pay is to NOT give in to the desire to kill his father, or else, John will share Eko’s fate…
    Well, I hope that made any sense 😀

  51. barbarella says:

    [quote comment=”45985″]I know this is not really relevant to the story, but I was wondering if I’m the only one giggling whenever the guy from Mittelos appear on screen (he is Batmanoel, from The Tick :P)…

    On a more serious note, I think is pretty clear that he is NOT the man from Talahasse, because if you watch carefully, when Ben says to summon him, the person he is talking to is Batmanoel ^^ (pay attention to the voice and dark hair).[/quote]

    No, you’re not the only one. I loved the live-action Tick (have it on DVD) and that was the first thing I said when I saw Nestor Carbonnel’s name in the credits during Juliette’s flashback eppy — “Hey, it’s Batmanuel!” BTW – I’m pretty sure he was in the room with Tom and Ben when Locke was in the closet — I’m pretty sure it’s the Mittelos guy (Batmanuel!) who Ben asks to go get The Man from Tallehassee, which I can only assume is Locke’s father.

  52. i'dgetlostwithsawyer says:

    OK my bad about thinking that Richard was the Man from Tallahassee — I guess I just have watched one too many LOSTs and am wary of taking things for face-value and assuming the obvious (or rational). Thanks for clearing that up. And definitely the anomaly that Ben was talking about was the same kind of lingo those guys in tha Arctic were using. So now that the sub is blown up (unless there is some other sub or kind of transportation still on the island) it is up to Michael or Walt to save the Losties — or Penny Widmore?

  53. Holchadolcha says:

    Was Locke’s dad wearing the same clothes in the “box” that we saw him wearing right before he pushed Locke through the window?

  54. Andreas says:

    Great episode and some great comments guys!

    In my view “The Man from Tallahassee” is Locke’s “father”, and most probably also the real Sawyer.

    Cool to see Richard Alpert on the island. When I see him I think of Nestor’s role as the photographer in “Suddenly Susan” haha =)

  55. scottc13 says:

    What is the story with Jack’s new tattoo? I am assumning it must serve some level of importance.

    And why if the button had such a major importance to all forms of communication, and transportation on the island, would the others have allowed Dharma and the Losties to cotrol that station?

    Lastly, if the anomoly wiped out everythong around the island, anyone else think Michael and Walt are out there floating around in circles?

  56. aevkc says:

    Okay, so if Locke’s father is the real Sawyer (which seems more and more likely) the Others now have the power to manipulate both Locke and Sawyer as I assume they know Sawyer’s whole history as well. Interesting….

  57. Umbrella al says:

    [quote comment=”45943″]Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.[/quote]

    Take a look at the map. I have a feeling that that subterranean passage in the upper left could be how the sub gains access to the barracks. There’s plenty of room there for a small body of water.

    Map:
    http://www.humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=324&season=3

  58. [quote comment=”45999″]…And why if the button had such a major importance to all forms of communication, and transportation on the island, would the others have allowed Dharma and the Losties to cotrol that station?…[/quote]

    That’s an interesting question/point.
    I have no idea why they would continue to let Desmond, and then the losties, continue to control that station. It’s possible that not even they knew what would happen if the button didn’t get pushed.

    Pushing the button…man, that seems like AGES ago!

  59. BKMD says:

    scottc13: In their latest podcast, Damon and Carlton mention that the Others didn’t know about the button-pushing routine in the Swan station until the Losties became involved. The Dharmites considered this a very important task and only let out info on a need-to-know basis.

    I think we’re beginning to see that the Others/Hostiles don’t know everything about the island.

  60. [quote comment=”46002″]…Take a look at the map. I have a feeling that that subterranean passage in the upper left could be how the sub gains access to the barracks. There’s plenty of room there for a small body of water.

    Map:
    http://www.humpys.net/view_pic.php?id=324&season=3%5B/quote%5D

    I think all this talk of moving the sub inland through an underwater tunnel is just rediculous. That was a real, large, submarine. You’d need an underwater tunnel at least 75 feet square…and dead straight…to move a sub that large.

    Using a tunnel to travel by foot or subway to the shoreline makes far more sense.

  61. Andreas says:

    Or.. maybe the island is floating and the sub can just travel under it in whatever direction desired?

  62. froggirl says:

    So, I agree Locke’s dad is TMFT–but what I can’t decide is if he was really there in the box, or if there really is some “magic box” and that is what Locke saw when they opened it up.

    I’m conflicted on the sub, too. Ben said the sub “maintained the illusion” of people being able to leave whenever they wanted–so could it really get home at all? And if it really could get home, but Ben didn’t mind it getting blown up, I guess they are done recruiting people.

  63. Tasha says:

    I was thinking that, or just the fact that the sub can just go below the island to get out.

  64. tony says:

    [quote comment=”45999″]What is the story with Jack’s new tattoo? I am assuming it must serve some level of importance.[/quote]

    If you are referring to the one inside his arm w/ stars, this was proven to not be a “new” tattoo. It is visible in the first season, just not as much as his more well known tattoo.

  65. Andreas says:

    Regarding “the box”, I felt that it was just a metaphor used to make Locke understand. The room where his “father” was found is not the box, and “the box” probably isn’t anything like a box.

    My guess is that the smoke monster, or even the island, is “the box” and is able to manifest anything people want to see.

  66. Tina says:

    Two things:

    1. It is obvious that there are/were several groups of people occupying the island at different intervals for varied periods of time. The Others don’t know everything about the Dharma projects on the island (i.e. the Swan Station project of button pushing to avert world implosion).

    2. TMFT is Anthony Cooper, Locke’s biological father, and very likely the man Sawyer has been searching for most of his adult life. However, it is vitually impossible for Anthony Cooper to also be the infamous “Jacob”. It doesn’t fit with the mythology. If the Others are whacked out reliogcentric moralists, then is logically impossble for a man as immoral as Anthony Cooper to be their leader.

    To be honest, I’m not even convinced that “Jacob” is a real person. Perhaps he is like the Wizard in Oz, a manifestation of an idea used to control the Others. Perhaps “Jacob” is some Ben conjured up to sustain his power over the Others.

    It was heartbreaking to see the depth of the wickedness John suffered at the hands of his own father. No wonder he has latched on so deeply to the mysticism of the island and its apparent healing powers.

    I predict several more showdowns between Ben & John, perhaps even a confrontation over who has more “rights” to the island’s mysteries. My gues is Ben, though born on the island cannot tap into the central mystery of the island like John can.

    A+ for including a Brief History of Time in this episode. I heart Stephen Hawking.

  67. Jocco says:

    Anytime Ben told someone that they could go home, he had the sub pilots kill the passengers and return to the island after a couple of weeks. This is where the “illusion” of going home comes from.

  68. Toeknee says:

    If Locke’s dad is the original Sawyer, how will our Sawyer (James)learn that? He doesn’t know what the original Sawyer looks like – he once killed another man whom he was led to believe was the original Sawyer. The Others could tell James that this guy is Sawyer, but why would he believe them? He hates them. Locke’s dad would have to tell James himself that he was the guy who conned his parents. Should make for an interesting scene/episode.

  69. Max says:

    This maybe way off, but what if Locke was born on the island. I mean what if his dad and mom were on the island long ago. His day got his ticket to go home and his mom died from giving birth to him. He was a foster child. After getting back to the states he gave his son up for adoption. Maybe the death of Lockes mom is what made him Locke’s dad such the con man. Maybe after you leave the island you always have tabs on every move you make. That would explain how they found his father when no one else could. This would also explain Locke’s connection to the island. On the island he seems almost invincible. Or and this is reaching a bit, but maybe his mom hid her pregnancy, that would be hard to do, but maybe just maybe and she did something like Noah’s mom did. One thing is for sure. Locke has something no one else does and something Ben wants and that is a connection to the island. Also i would like to add, what happened to Sun’s baby? She should be showing by now.

  70. Hammer says:

    I want to know why/how Locke’s dad is there? If he got there by the sub, why was he there. Or do the others have the ability to pull someone out of the real world whenever they want?

  71. Tasha says:

    There is a picture over Ben’s bed. It’s obviously a picture of the island. Or a painting. In it the sky looks really strange…anybody notice that? Across from Ben’s bed is a huge round picture or map of some sort. Just wondering if they could mean anything.

  72. Christine says:

    According to this site: http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Portal:Episode_Guide
    Sun found out she was pregnant on day 60 of island time. It’s now only day 80something. So, it’s not even been a month since she took the pregnancy test. First time moms usually don’t show for 4-5 months.

  73. TennVol says:

    [quote comment=”45929″]i think idgetlsot is probably on the right page. I think the mittelos guy is “the man for Tallahassee.” And ben’s comfort with him, seems unlike the way ben has acted around anyone else. Im thinking this guy is not only “the man from tallahassee,” but also maybe “jacob.” what do you guys think?[/quote]

    I did not want to say it outloud but I had the same thought. Maybe he is the man from Tallahassee and “Jacob”.

  74. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”46025″]I want to know why/how Locke’s dad is there? If he got there by the sub, why was he there. Or do the others have the ability to pull someone out of the real world whenever they want?[/quote]

    That is a seriously good question. Especially because it looks like everyone else that is on the island got there by “accident” (losties, rousseau, desmond) Why Jack hasn’t asked Juliet how she actually got on the island is bugging the crap out of me.

  75. Jocco says:

    I don’t think that the person Locke saw is his dad, I think that it is an apparition ala Eko’s brother. Because of Locke’s kinship with the island he will figure this out, and possibly knew it immediately.

    I think that the reason Dharma supply drops still take place is that Dharma doesn’t know about the purge. The Hostile’s were members of Dharma and have kept the power shift a secret. Alpert is the only one to ever have face to face meetings with Dharma, and he is on the side of the Hostiles. Now with the sub gone, Alpert will be out of touch with Dharma and they will send a team to investigate.

  76. Joel says:

    I’d just like to know how you get a piano or a ping pong table in and out of a sub.
    The show is fantastic. I can’t believe how fast an hour goes while watching.
    But am I forgetting or missing something about how the Others have been “recruited”–did they arrive by sub or perhaps in the same way that Locke’s father arrived….bound and gagged.
    Where did Ben get the chicken?
    Was there a special reason he was looking so fondly at the photos on his wall, as though he was contemplating killing Alex or just sentimental that she now “hates” him. Does anyone think that Alex will play a bigger role?

  77. Hammer says:

    Joel – There are videos of when Dharma was first setting up on the island. They showed boats being unloaded on docks. These things could have been part of the orginal set up.

  78. Tasha says:

    I think that picture I was talking about is a model of inner earth or a picture taken at the north or south pole. In the very center of the picture is something bright…possibly a star or marking one of the poles. I think it is significant.

  79. bdg1116 says:

    The others camp was not at the center of the island, The blast door points toward the northeast corner of the island. The alarm system may be a half cirle perimeter with ocean to the north and east, which makes it suitable for a dock and a natural security barrier being the sea.

  80. Joel says:

    Thanks, Hammer. I forgot that the Others were living in the Dharma barracks.

  81. avalanche says:

    [quote comment=”45948″]Wasn’t Juliette a fertitlity specialist of sorts? I am beginning to believe the Others were/are infertile; that may be why they kidnapped the children. Why Alex may not be “related” to Ben…Anyone have any thoughts on that?[/quote]

    i know the producers are big comic book geeks and this theory reminds me of loki’s gift in the “x-men in asgard” run. they become whole people (ie: cyclops can control his power w/o hi visor). the price is that they lose there ability to create. the x-men end up refusing the gift and things return to normal. perhaps there is a price the island demands. short stretch from creativity to procreativity. locke already said as much referring to boone.

  82. vinny2cubes says:

    I don’t get the reason for having a Sub versus a surface ship. Why a Submarine? They obviously must have had hundreds of Freighter size ship / trips to bring all the materials to colonize the island. Maybe the writers wanted to make it more secretive, like Captain Nemo’s Mystery Island. Also, since the sonar beacon’s been destroyed or disabled, why would Ben let the sub go knowing it could never come back?

    As far as the location of the sub, i’ll give literary license to the writers since they can’t show every step of the journey that Jack/Julia/Locke/Alex took to walk there. Maybe there’s a gate or passage. Maybe it was several miles. Who cares?

    I loved this episode ! Locke’s not the doofus we all thought. More answers and more mysteries.

    Awesome!

  83. MK says:

    Very interesting…

    Ben knew, when Locke was in the closet with “his” daughter, how the episode would turn out, with the submarine and C4, and one way or another called for them to get Locke’s “dad” prepared (whether it is really him or a trick).

    Ben knew it ahead of time. He can read Locke’s behavior, and perhaps the future, but despite the reams of info he has on Locke, he doesn’t know what’s deep inside him, the connection to the island — which Locke doesn’t really know either but he speaks as if he does.

    And of course Ben knew the promise to let the rescue party go was a hollow promise. He’s still manipulative.

    But Ben was born on the island, and he’s 40-50, no? Dharma had arrived in 1980, so he was probably a teenager (if he aged appropriately) or older. Where did he live before that? What did they eat? Since now they live in Dharma housing, and eat Dharma food… and rely on plane crashes or boat crashes to get children…

    And who is the “great man” above Ben?

    Locke’s dad *is* certainly the man Sawyer has been looking for. But don’t forget that Jack saw HIS dad on the island very early on. So it could easily be an illusion, but is probably not.

    Is there any way for Jack and Kate to know that they are half-siblings? Will they be ignorant of this the whole series?!? 😉

  84. Pelinester says:

    This episode was absolutely unbelievably awesome! I could go on for hours to be honest, I definitely have to watch this one again..

    How they manage to maintain this level of quality in so many elements after such a large amount of time is astounding. This season is really delivering. It feels at the moment like we are around the season finale – there is that much going on.

    I wonder how much longer they can maintain this level of production? Surely we will have to endure at least a few slower episodes, allowing the tension to build back up again for the Season 3 finale? Or maybe not? Maybe they have enough material to keep going now at this intensity all the way? 😀

  85. Oliver says:

    That was one hell of a great episode. For me it was like the highlight of this season so far. It solved many questions regarding Locke’s behaviour, and damn I love it when he blows things up. Locke is still my favourite character. And how great it was when he told Ben he’s not sitting in a wheelchair as a response why he should be more involved with the island. I also thought Kate still has some relatedness with Jack. I’m curious now about that box thing and all these white rabbits that will come out in further episodes. 😛
    Rock on LOST!!1!!11!1!!

  86. Ann says:

    The videos told Dharma Pearl crew to go to Pala Ferry to get to the barracks after their shift. I assumed it was on a boat to take them to the 2nd island to the barracks (where Kate showered). This is also where I still think Ben lead Michael and Walt. Since they are now calling Othersville the Barracks, then maybe they did board the sub at Pala Ferry and went under the island, as some of you mentioned, and popping up at Othersville.

  87. bdg1116 says:

    [quote comment=”45943″]Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.[/quote]

    I believe the blast door map shows that the others are using barracks from the Dharma In. Which I believe are at the far northeastern corner of the Island. That would mean that the sonic fence would be a semi cirle providing protection from hostiles (the others who took it over)on land based routes to the barracks while the sea in a natural barrier to the north and would allow easier access for sub and the boats brought all of the equipment to the island. I am confused about the illusion that Ben spoke of, I don’t believe anyone can leave, and we will see walt and micheal in later episode

  88. whatif says:

    what power source did the sub run on – if fuel where did they get it from? How is the sub ‘an illusion of leaving the island?’ Did they use it to go from island to island as they live on the mainland and work on alcatraz (or to transport polar bears?)?

    I got really excited when Sayed said something to Alex about her mom – our previous experience with Losties clearly show that they are not too fond of sharing information. Alex, thought didn’t seem too surprised or conflicted.

    love, love, love, this show (esp. the last 5 eps)

  89. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”46049″]
    Is there any way for Jack and Kate to know that they are half-siblings? Will they be ignorant of this the whole series?!? ;)[/quote]

    Kate and Jack aren’t related, so far as anyone can tell so far.

    Claire & Jack are hald siblings however. I’m not certain how they’ll find out though since Claire told Christian she never wanted to know his name. I guess if she and Jack happened upon a conversation about their dads and they pieced it all together, they’re smart enough to connect the dots, but I really doubt they’d just put it together otherwise.

  90. MKS says:

    I think that the whole idea or redemption and frogiveness is what is going on on the island. As I said in a previous post, I think that each person has to get over their own insecurities, fears, anger issues, and so on, and make peace with who they are. Only then can they really acces the powers of the island. Eko saw his brother, because that was what he felt most guilty about/ was most conflicted about in his life. Once he dealt with this issue, he found his peace. He died on the island (but perhaps not in the “real” world?).
    The characters keep seeing people, animals, things, etc. that remind them of their own big conflicts. It is as if the island is trying to prevent them from gaining their inner peace and there by the power to control their own destiny. That is why Sayid was reminded of Nadia, Jack kept seeing his father, and now Locke is faced with his father.
    Speaking of Locke’s father. I do think that he is really there, not just a mirage or something. Remember that “only fools are limited by time and space” statement. Desmond, when going back in time, was really in the past, but at the same time he was really on the island. I believe the same is true for Locke’s dad. He is really there, and it will be up to Locke to deal with his fear, loathing, love, and insecurities in handling the situation in order to be given more “powers” by the island.

  91. Hammer says:

    I’m a bit confused on the “illusion” as well. If his “people” are given the idea that the sub can take them home if they choose but they can never come back, then why does Juliette need permission from Ben to go home? Maybe I heard Ben wrong, but I thought he was saying that his people believe they have free will to go home…but really it’s like The Eagles’ “Hotel California” – “you can check out any time you like…but you can never leave”.

  92. Bobbi says:

    OK, my very first thought is that Locke’s dad hasn’t been on the island this whole time. That Dr. Richard Alpert just left and retrieved him…(much like Juliet) if we are still to believe that time is different on this island, perhaps he could fetch Locke’s dad and be back same night? It would also explain how Dr. Alpert knew Juliet’s sister was pregnant-the same day they she found out! This “theory” about retrieving Locke’s dad, however would not be possible if we believe Ben that there is no longer a way to communicate, but I don’t believe him.

    Did anyone notice John’s tv dinner tray in his flashback? I can’t go back, but I’m pretty sure there were symbols similar to the ones on the timer in the button hatch.

    Next, someone mentioned Jacob not necessarily being a man, but more like “wizard of oz”–maybe Jacob is Smokey?

    Can someone remind me about “the guy Sawyer has been searching for?” -I guess I forgot the backstory entirely…

  93. Cindy says:

    I loved this episode!!! OK – TMFT is definitely Locke’s “dad” although I wonder if he is even really his biological dad. Is that a con, too? I think that he is part of the others because the losties all seem to have a dad connection. I think that Ben wanted it to look like he was captured but really he is the one feeding them the info. about Locke so they can get to him. It is a set up by Ben and TMFT. I also think that Christian Shepard is there giving them the scoop on Jack. That’s how they get inside of them.

  94. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”46058″]I’m a bit confused on the “illusion” as well. If his “people” are given the idea that the sub can take them home if they choose but they can never come back, then why does Juliette need permission from Ben to go home? Maybe I heard Ben wrong, but I thought he was saying that his people believe they have free will to go home…but really it’s like The Eagles’ “Hotel California” – “you can check out any time you like…but you can never leave”.[/quote]

    I think it was more like a psychological, comforting issue. If you are in a place that you think is better than the one you were before you will want to stay, as long as you don’t feel like you HAVE to stay. Even if the people could not really leave, knowing there was a sub that COULD take them away, or at least being able to pretend it could, was a comforting illusion of freedom of choice. It’s one of those “you don’t really miss it ’til it’s gone” things.

  95. Lesley says:

    I think it is beginning to look like Jacob is Smokey. He is not real forgiving, right? So now the question is whether Cooper is really Cooper or Smokey. Looks like a test is coming for Mr. Locke. I believe someone above mentioned this, but I would guess that the folks who want to leave, board the sub and end up dead or stuck in the same limbo existence as Michael and Walt. So are you on the list if you have been able to manifest your desires through the island or you are an innocent? So why wasn’t Jack on Jacob’s list? Everyone’s comments are great!

  96. Rupert says:

    Are Adam & Eve Ben’s parents? Their bodies have been there 40 or 50 years.

  97. birdwatcher says:

    Just a little thought about the powers of the island. Remember Rose’s flashback? She went with Bernard to a special island (or country, I can’t remember where) to a man who Bernard thought could cure her cancer? The man said this place didn’t have the right energy to cure her (implying that there might be somewhere else that did). Well the island the Losties are on obviously has the right energy (resonation?) to cure her and Locke – but maybe not Ben.

    Also, why would Locke kill Mikhail to keep him from talking about his paralysis but not Rose. Or maybe he did kill Rose and that’s why we haven’t seen her in so long (LOL!).

  98. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”46061″]
    Can someone remind me about “the guy Sawyer has been searching for?” -I guess I forgot the backstory entirely…[/quote]

    Here’s how Lostpedia summarizes it….
    At the age of eight, James’ parents were swindled out of their life savings by a man known as Sawyer, who slept with James’ mother. James ultimately witnessed his father murder his mother, and finally turn the gun on himself in despair. James wrote a letter to the con man, hoping to deliver it to him personally.

  99. aevkc says:

    [quote comment=”46061″]
    Can someone remind me about “the guy Sawyer has been searching for?” -I guess I forgot the backstory entirely…[/quote]

    Our Sawyer has been searching for a man named Mr. Sawyer who romanced his mother and conned his father out of the family money. He then split with the money and our Sawyer’s dad killed his mother and then himself, leaving our Sawyer an orphan. He’s been looking for the “real” Sawyer his whole life so he can kill him. I doubt Locke’s dad is there just as a test for Locke, our Sawyer’s got to be brought into the equation at some point as well.

  100. Toeknee says:

    Beat ya to it, aekvc! 🙂 Although I left out the bit about James wanting to kill the original Sawyer

  101. crd says:

    Did anyone catch the Mucutheon (sp.) scotch that Locke’s dad poured before he pushed Locke out the window? The same brand of scotch that Penelope’s father refused to pour for Desmond. What is the significance there? And with regard to the question of “how will they be rescued now?” let us not forget the two guys in the little outpost that got a beacon from the island at the end of season two and notified Penny immediately. I can’t wait until the writers tie back into that story because it suggests that Penny might assemble a search party and try and find Desmond, and unbeknownst to Penny, all of the other mess that is going on here.

  102. scottc13 says:

    [quote comment=”46056″][quote comment=”46049″]
    Is there any way for Jack and Kate to know that they are half-siblings? Will they be ignorant of this the whole series?!? ;)[/quote]

    Kate and Jack aren’t related, so far as anyone can tell so far.

    Claire & Jack are hald siblings however. I’m not certain how they’ll find out though since Claire told Christian she never wanted to know his name. I guess if she and Jack happened upon a conversation about their dads and they pieced it all together, they’re smart enough to connect the dots, but I really doubt they’d just put it together otherwise.[/quote]

    I think Ben will end up telling Jack that Claire is his sister. He knows things about the losties and will probably be the one to drop the bomb to Locke that his father is also the man Sawyer is longing to find. And I am sure it will be used to play with someones head.

    Something else to consider, however far fetched, maybe the island has the power to ressurect the dead. (Dr Shepard) and he is also being held somewhere in the “box”

  103. Bobbi says:

    Thanks guys for the “real Sawyer” info.

    On a different note, I thought that when “apparitions” happened to people on the island, they were the only ones to see it. I mean no one saw Hurley’s friend Dave, and no one saw Eko’s brother, although Sawyer and Kate did see the horse, but perhaps the horse was just a horse. Anyway, if this is the case, then we should think Locke’s dad is real. If Ben and Dr. Alpert could also obviously see him.

  104. Joel says:

    So to clarify, if Ben knows Locke’s backstory, and can summon THFT at will, are you saying that he knew Locke would come to his room? I got the impression that Ben was very very surprised by the turn of events, but over time cleverly figured out a way to manipulate John. If you are saying that he knew John would come looking for the sub, then I am bewildered by his initial reaction to John, when he thought John was looking for Jack.

    [quote comment=”46049″]
    But Ben was born on the island, and he’s 40-50, no? Dharma had arrived in 1980, so he was probably a teenager (if he aged appropriately) or older. Where did he live before that? What did they eat? Since now they live in Dharma housing, and eat Dharma food… and rely on plane crashes or boat crashes to get children…

    [/quote]

    MK, you’ve got a great point about the years. Where DID Ben live on the island BEFORE Dharma??? In fact, without Dharma, what kind of people were there? Ben is quite educated and articulate, and his home appears to be very “western”-appearing. He doesn’t seem to know any other society than a contemporary western society.

  105. Joel says:

    Oops, I meant TMFT, not THFT

  106. Bobbi says:

    birdwatcher…yes I think the healer in Australia did in fact say that there are more places to heal-and that it is a matter of finding the right one for each person. I also thought of that last night, when Ben was upset that he hadn’t healed quickly.

  107. Bobbi says:

    I definitely do not think Ben knew Locke was coming. He even thought it all out vocally…putting two and two together. He said “you obviously were in the Communications station” and “you must’ve seen the explosives”…

  108. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”46078″]I definitely do not think Ben knew Locke was coming. He even thought it all out vocally…putting two and two together. He said “you obviously were in the Communications station” and “you must’ve seen the explosives”…[/quote]
    Unless Ben was saying all that as a way of playing with Locke’s mind. Ben may have figured all of that out beforehand – it seems like he must have found out somehow that the Flame station exploded, and that Locke was the one who caused it. And Ben was thinking out loud to make Locke think that Ben was figuring it out just at that moment, to make Locke think he was one step ahead of Ben (i.e., Ben was conning Locke). This was setting Locke up for the shock of seeing his father. But, as been asked before, how long ago did they bring Locke’s dad to the island?

    Or, perhaps there was some time traveling or precognition going with Ben, so he knew what Locke’s plans were. This may have given them the time to bring Locke’s dad to the island.

  109. downthehatch says:

    Amazing Episode! Probably the best so far this season.

    Who called the sub explosion? LOL!

  110. bdg1116 says:

    [quote comment=”46075″]Oops, I meant TMFT, not THFT[/quote]
    Remember the 4 toed statue. Someone was here way before Dharma, Maybe Ben is a decendant from them ( someone check his toes)

  111. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46085″][quote comment=”46075″]Oops, I meant TMFT, not THFT[/quote]
    Remember the 4 toed statue. Someone was here way before Dharma, Maybe Ben is a decendant from them ( someone check his toes)[/quote]

    I believe we dispelled Ben have only 4 toes back when they were on the dock and were still in costume the day the hatch blew. Ben and the others were bare foot and they all had all 5 toes.

  112. bdg1116 says:

    [quote comment=”46074″]So to clarify, if Ben knows Locke’s backstory, and can summon THFT at will, are you saying that he knew Locke would come to his room? I got the impression that Ben was very very surprised by the turn of events, but over time cleverly figured out a way to manipulate John. If you are saying that he knew John would come looking for the sub, then I am bewildered by his initial reaction to John, when he thought John was looking for Jack.

    [quote comment=”46049″]
    But Ben was born on the island, and he’s 40-50, no? Dharma had arrived in 1980, so he was probably a teenager (if he aged appropriately) or older. Where did he live before that? What did they eat? Since now they live in Dharma housing, and eat Dharma food… and rely on plane crashes or boat crashes to get children…

    [/quote]

    MK, you’ve got a great point about the years. Where DID Ben live on the island BEFORE Dharma??? In fact, without Dharma, what kind of people were there? Ben is quite educated and articulate, and his home appears to be very “western”-appearing. He doesn’t seem to know any other society than a contemporary western society.[/quote]

    People were here way before Dharma remember the 4 toed stautue, Ben is not from Dharma this has already been determined.

  113. DocH says:

    [/quote]Im thinking this guy is not only “the man from tallahassee,” but also maybe “jacob.” what do you guys think?[/quote]

    Mentioned at the top of the blog is that LOST mirrors the Movie/Novel “Lost Horizon”. Using these references http://www.filmsite.org/losth.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Horizon_(film)#Synopsis
    Our Losties, Others and Dharmites live very long, healthy, stoic lives. Following the Lost Horizon stencil… Ben and Jacob are one in the same – in the movie, Father Perrault (Jacob) from almost a century before is the High Lama (Ben). bf- LostHatch.com

  114. samsandrasan says:

    [quote comment=”46028″] Across from Ben’s bed is a huge round picture or map of some sort. Just wondering if they could mean anything.[/quote]

    I thought it was a star chart. I’m not sure.

    I noticed alot of things in Ben’s house that were interesting. He had alot of African masks that makes me wonder about a link to Eko’s life. He had a statue of a black horse (Kate). Most importantly he had a statue of Vishnu displayed prominently. Vishnu relates back to Dharma.

    http://www.pantheon.org/articles/v/vishnu.html

    My theory is that the island is a place where mankind will not only survive the end of the outside world but where Man will be back into an obedient relationship with a higher being. Good and Evil will be balanced. I think this predates Dharma and the Others and I don’t think the Others understand it as much as they think they do. Locke has seen a vision of the true nature of the island. Just my two cents at this point. I’m sure it will change.

  115. Monica says:

    In Season 1, episode ‘Numbers’, after Hurley tells Lenny he used the numbers to play lottery, Lenny says:
    “You’ve opened the box!”

    http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/Numbers_Lost.htm
    (go to edit/find on this page/type in box & scroll to you get to this conversation they had)

  116. Tanner says:

    Best episode of all 3 seasons.

  117. BTW, Andreas, the new “green triangle” feature is really paying off this week. It was a great addition to the blog!

  118. Harpua says:

    By the way, Locke said, “You’re a hypocrite, a Pharisee”

    That’s a reference to the Pharisees who were the ruling priestly class during the time of Jesus. Jesus denounced them as hypocrites because they were using the Temple as a marketplace for commerce instead of sanctifying the Lord’s name. Could Locke be Jesus?

  119. Tasha says:

    [/quote]I thought it was a star chart. I’m not sure.

    I noticed alot of things in Ben’s house that were interesting. He had alot of African masks that makes me wonder about a link to Eko’s life. He had a statue of a black horse (Kate). Most importantly he had a statue of Vishnu displayed prominently. Vishnu relates back to Dharma.[/quote]

    There is also a painting of a blonde woman above his couch. Also when Locke puts down the chicken their is a photograph of a man and woman. I thought the statue was a monkey god! Isn’t it just so funny that he has such a contemporary couch!

  120. Harpua says:

    Locke’s dad’s name was Adam Seward when he was conning the rich lady. Sounds a lot like Sawyer, and Cons are known to use similar aliases, like in Silence of the Lambs: James Gum, John Grant, etc.

  121. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”46096″]BTW, Andreas, the new “green triangle” feature is really paying off this week. It was a great addition to the blog![/quote]

    Yeah, I’m finding it really helpful too!

  122. Tasha says:

    Oh My GOODNESS. Okay, he is looking at the pics so us viewers can get a good look at the clock. It clearly reads 3:25. I checked with a magnifying glass. When his daughter walks in…the clock reads 12:35.

    Either it jumps ahead 9 hours…or time is going backwards. It’s still night time though, so time is traveling back??

    Or is that just a blooper filming thing? I don’t think they would have held focus on that part unless someone wanted us to notice.

    Sorry about the quoting in comment 119.

  123. aevkc says:

    [quote comment=”46069″]Beat ya to it, aekvc! 🙂 Although I left out the bit about James wanting to kill the original Sawyer[/quote]
    LOL, you’re too fast for me!

  124. samsandrasan says:

    [quote comment=”46097″]By the way, Locke said, “You’re a hypocrite, a Pharisee”

    That’s a reference to the Pharisees who were the ruling priestly class during the time of Jesus. Jesus denounced them as hypocrites because they were using the Temple as a marketplace for commerce instead of sanctifying the Lord’s name. Could Locke be Jesus?[/quote]

    I forgot about that. That definately goes with what I am thinking about the island. My viewpoint is one of a Christian so yes, when he said “if you really understood what this island is, you wouldn’t be putting chicken in a refrigerator. Meaning to me that you wouldn’t have to worry about your physical needs. ie Manna from Heaven. No, I don’t think anyone here is Jesus.

  125. whatif says:

    Correct me if I am wrong but during last nigth’s ep right after John appeared in Ben’s bedroom, Ben’s guards came in when they heard a rocus and informed Ben that someone and someone had showed up at their camp – which I thought was a clear reference to Kate and Sayed, yet they used different names. I can’t watch the episode online at the moment and I don’t have a TiVo so I couldn’t rewind as I watched it last night. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Am I confusing things or making sth up?

  126. aevkc says:

    [quote comment=”46106″]Correct me if I am wrong but during last nigth’s ep right after John appeared in Ben’s bedroom, Ben’s guards came in when they heard a rocus and informed Ben that someone and someone had showed up at their camp – which I thought was a clear reference to Kate and Sayed, yet they used different names. I can’t watch the episode online at the moment and I don’t have a TiVo so I couldn’t rewind as I watched it last night. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Am I confusing things or making sth up?[/quote]
    They referred to them by their last names, Austen and Sayid’s last name, which I can’t remember right now.

  127. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46106″]Correct me if I am wrong but during last nigth’s ep right after John appeared in Ben’s bedroom, Ben’s guards came in when they heard a rocus and informed Ben that someone and someone had showed up at their camp – which I thought was a clear reference to Kate and Sayed, yet they used different names. I can’t watch the episode online at the moment and I don’t have a TiVo so I couldn’t rewind as I watched it last night. Does anyone know what I am talking about? Am I confusing things or making sth up?[/quote]
    Your right, Mr. Friendly used their last names.

  128. whatif says:

    oh, thank you!!

  129. samsandrasan says:

    Yes, remember Mikhail knew their full names as well.

  130. Joel says:

    [quote comment=”46093″]In Season 1, episode ‘Numbers’, after Hurley tells Lenny he used the numbers to play lottery, Lenny says:
    “You’ve opened the box!”

    http://www.lost-tv.com/transcripts/Numbers_Lost.htm
    (go to edit/find on this page/type in box & scroll to you get to this conversation they had)[/quote]
    Monica, your post intrigued me so I went to the link (first time), and also found this tantalizing line:
    Sam’s wife (from the cabin in Australia)(talking to Hurley): Sam and Leonard were stationed at a listening post monitoring long wave transmissions out of the Pacific. Boring job. Sam hated it, nothing to do but listen to static night after night. Until one night, about 16 years ago… ”
    This is her story to Hurley about how Sam and Lenny got the numbers. The “listening post”?? The 2 guys at the end of season 2 were also in a “listening post”.

  131. Bobbi says:

    Joel-I also just went and read it. I thought the same thing, although the two there obviously weren’t the same two, the similarity is probably not a coincidence. Who’s voice was it, do you think? Did Rousseau’s message contain the numbers?

  132. Bobbi says:

    I also think it was interesting that they were on the listening post, 16 years ago, when the numbers were announced. 16 years ago was when Rousseau’s message started.

  133. Joel says:

    Bobbi, You’re right–it can’t be the same guys because of the language and other circumstances. Danielle claims to have changed the transmission. How? Have we seen the tower yet? Was that the Flame?
    Wouldn’t the Others, with all of their equipment, also have heard the transmission and found Rousseau by now?

  134. MKS says:

    Time wise, it would make sense for Rousseau to be the one sending the message out- and if not her, maybe the other members of her group, before the all died.
    Maybe the numbers are also coordinates or clues to finding the island?

  135. samsandrasan says:

    [quote comment=”46102″]Oh My GOODNESS. Okay, he is looking at the pics so us viewers can get a good look at the clock. It clearly reads 3:25. I checked with a magnifying glass. When his daughter walks in…the clock reads 12:35.

    Either it jumps ahead 9 hours…or time is going backwards. It’s still night time though, so time is traveling back??

    Or is that just a blooper filming thing? I don’t think they would have held focus on that part unless someone wanted us to notice.

    Sorry about the quoting in comment 119.[/quote]

    You are right but I watched that scene again just now at ABC.com and it skips more than once. Ben is staring at the pics at 3:25. When Alex comes in the clock says 12:35. In the same scene when you see the clock again, it shows 4:12 and then it shows the clock again at 12:35. Watch the scene again and keep your eyes only on the clock. I can’t believe they would make such a mistake. If it’s not a mistake, what does it mean? Is that why they cannot be found? A constantly changing location of some sort?

  136. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46115″]Bobbi, You’re right–it can’t be the same guys because of the language and other circumstances. Danielle claims to have changed the transmission. How? Have we seen the tower yet? Was that the Flame?
    Wouldn’t the Others, with all of their equipment, also have heard the transmission and found Rousseau by now?[/quote]
    The others know about Danielle, she captured Ben. If the others kidnapped Alex, they would know who they took her from…the transmission might be what lead them to realize she and the baby survived the “virus”.

  137. Joel says:

    Hammer–thanks again for reminding me of “givens” I should have remembered. Uggh! This is very complicated. Doesn’t someone on the show keep saying that?

  138. Tasha says:

    SAMSANDRASAN- I am not sure. I saw the first 3:25 Then when his daughter gets back it says 12:35. When Jack’s in there it says 4:12 I guess. I didn’t see the next timing. I am not sure if it mean anything, but people had asked why he was looking at the pictures, but it seemed so focused on the clock as well. They may have just forgot to film it, but since I think the island is so whacky and I think time has something to do with the mystery, I brought it up. Maybe one day on the island is longer than we think.

  139. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”46115″]Bobbi, You’re right–it can’t be the same guys because of the language and other circumstances. Danielle claims to have changed the transmission. How? Have we seen the tower yet? Was that the Flame?
    Wouldn’t the Others, with all of their equipment, also have heard the transmission and found Rousseau by now?[/quote]

    I assumed that the Others took over the Dharma digs/ technology and thus did not have it before. Rousseau could have send out the signal BEFORE the Others took over, before they had any equipment to interfere with her transmission.

  140. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”46111″]The “listening post”?? The 2 guys at the end of season 2 were also in a “listening post”.[/quote]

    Mikhail also said that he was stationed at a military listening station in Vladivostok.

  141. Joel says:

    [quote comment=”46123″][quote comment=”46111″]The “listening post”?? The 2 guys at the end of season 2 were also in a “listening post”.[/quote]

    Mikhail also said that he was stationed at a military listening station in Vladivostok.[/quote]
    Andreas, I remembered that from the other week and it has been rolling around in my head. At first, I was thinking he was one of those two guys we saw in the listening post, but there was a whole blog about that last season, and it was determined that they were speaking Portuguese, I think. But thanks for replying. This blog is so addicting, and the show just keeps getting more and more interesting.

  142. Joel says:

    I meant to say “a whole discussion”, not a whole blog.

  143. MasterPo says:

    Did anyone else catch this:

    Locke went in side the sub to (apparently) set the C4 to destory it. But in the next scene when Locke is walking back on the dock from the sub he is dripping wet from head to toe. IMO the camera purposely shows him from feet upward to show he is soaked. Then the sub blows up.

    So why was he wet? Did he put the C4 inside the sub or somewhere on the outside under the water line?

    If the latter, why did he investigate inside the sub at all? Did he take something from the sub? A map? A weapon? Some device? Or maybe try to use the radio?

  144. Hammer says:

    Master – That bothered me too. I just blew it off as he was investigating before the blew it up. I assume it’s safer to be on the outside of the tin can when setting C4?

  145. MasterPo says:

    Another thing:

    In all this time Jack has been with the Others, helping to save Ben, living in one of their houses etc. why the heck does he still look so dirty and unkempt?!

    At the very least why hasn’t he taken a shave?!

  146. MD says:

    If Ben was born on the Island than where are his parents. He can’t be that old, maybe 40’s 50’s. Maybe he is a test tube baby???

  147. Hammer says:

    Some people think that “Adam and Eve” are his parents, but we have lots of theories on who “Adam and Eve” are.

  148. samsandrasan says:

    [quote comment=”46120″]SAMSANDRASAN- I am not sure. I saw the first 3:25 Then when his daughter gets back it says 12:35. When Jack’s in there it says 4:12 I guess. I didn’t see the next timing. I am not sure if it mean anything, but people had asked why he was looking at the pictures, but it seemed so focused on the clock as well. They may have just forgot to film it, but since I think the island is so whacky and I think time has something to do with the mystery, I brought it up. Maybe one day on the island is longer than we think.[/quote]

    In just the scene with Locke, Ben and Alex the clock changes from 12:35 to 4:12 and back to 12:35.
    They show the clock several times and it doesn’t change every time. You have to watch from when Alex comes in to when she and Locke leave.

    Are you all sure about the guy who uncuffed Locke being the same guy that recruited Juliet? When I saw him last night at the camp, I immediately thought – hey, the guy from Suddenly Susan! If he played the guy in Juliet’s flashbacks – I didn’t recognize him at all. Are you rewatching the episode on DVD or are you just remembering?

  149. Hammer says:

    Isn’t his name Richard in both episodes? Looks like the same guy to me.

  150. Ann says:

    Nestor Carbonell portrays Richard Alpert in the Season 3 episodes “Not in Portland” and “The Man from Tallahassee”.

  151. Jay says:

    who do you think Adam and Eve are?

  152. Hammer says:

    Jay – I don’t think we have enough info yet, but I’m leaning toward Dez and Pen since IMO this story is more and more being centered around Dez and how he will be instrumental in “saving the world”. I believe Penn will find the island and won’t be able to leave either. Since it appears that time travel may be happening…

  153. DocH says:

    Assumptions may = Errors: Further up the page Alpert is referred to as a Doctor, and Jack & Claire as half-siblings. I may sound like I am quibbling, but neither of those two things has been established yet. Sure we saw Alpert recruiting Juliet, a Doctor, over to the science team he represents (Mittlewerk Bio aka. MBS) and he had a wall of reproductive xrays to sell her on the project, but no one every referred to him as Doctor and he never intimated that he was one. So is it reasonable to assume that he may be one. Maybe yes, but still, maybe not a doctor/just a business man. Ethan Rom was the Doctor he worked with. Just because Christian said he had a fling with Claire’s mom way-back-when and claims to have provided some level of paternal oversight in her younger years, we still do not know for sure that he is her dad. Heck, for that matter, we can’t even be sure that Jack is really his son. Remember, Christian is a doctor with questionable moral and ethical standards. A lot of our sub-plot deals with genetic manipulation and infertility. Christian may simply be the doctor that got stuck farming out the test-tube babies or the altered in-vitro eggs to the host mommies, and charge with overseeing the way they were raised. He implied he had plenty of money to support Claire’s upbringing, money from where? Dharma… Hanso… MBS? I am not saying Jacks’ not his lad. Jack is what, 15 years older than Claire? I just don’t want to automatically assume that Jack and Claire are siblings – based solely on Christians’ slithering testimony. It just seems like Christian is more of a controller (or pawn) in the grand scheme. His fondness for alcohol to the excess/suicide is probably out of the guilt he feels for his lifetime involvement in the “LOST experiment”. Making Jack a world class surgeon was his mandate for the island and its cult. Luring Jack to Australia with his death was his ultimate sacrifice. Getting Jack to plea with the ticket counter lady “I have to be on this flight (815) because I have to be at a funeral tomorrow morning”, well that was his mothers gift to the island/project – she ordered Jack “You go bring your father home” (sic). Fate or Conspiracy, I try not assume either.

  154. Hammer says:

    I might be wrong here, but I thought the last podcast confirmed the Claire/Jack thing. I’m also pretty sure he was referred to as Dr. Alpert or called himself Dr. Alpert in “Not in Portland”. I guess it doesn’t really matter if he’s a doctor or not…he’s a confirmed other.

  155. terptwerpy says:

    Hey,

    Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but is the presence of Locke’s father on the island not due to some sort of “magic box,” but he may have also been on the Oceanic flight?

    If he was sawyer’s target, its not implausible that he would also be on the airplane. Since there is so much about intersecting lives among the plane’s passengers, maybe his dad was on the plane’s tailsection and was among the first taken by the others.

  156. MasterPo says:

    Definately established that Jack & Clarie are half siblings. No question about it. But neither know it (yet).

    Maybe the island is like “Forbidden Plant” – the old Walter Pigeon movie? (A geat movie!). And the smoke monster is like the Id creature from the movie.

  157. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46147″]Hey,

    Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but is the presence of Locke’s father on the island not due to some sort of “magic box,” but he may have also been on the Oceanic flight?

    If he was sawyer’s target, its not implausible that he would also be on the airplane. Since there is so much about intersecting lives among the plane’s passengers, maybe his dad was on the plane’s tailsection and was among the first taken by the others.[/quote]
    Sounds reasonable. Ben loves illusions and manipulation.

  158. Lesley says:

    There also seems to be some kind of connection with Florida.

  159. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46152″]There also seems to be some kind of connection with Florida.[/quote]
    How so?

  160. Tasha says:

    Florida? I think this show has some type of connection to every subject out there! J?K.

  161. Tasha says:

    Florida? I think this show has some type of connection to every subject out there! J/K.

  162. SpinPapi says:

    Wow…great discussion! Isn’t this miles ahead of where we were a few weeks ago? Cooperation, friendly banter, cool new theories…I love it. =]

    Something I noticed that hasn’t been mentioned so far: at the end of the episode, Tom / Mr Friendly appeared to be hand-motioning to Jack that the room he was visiting Kate in was being monitored.

    Is Tom on Jack’s side? Does this further indicate a rift among the Others? Henry was concerned about maintaining his leadership position; we’ve seen Alex rebelling and Carl appearing to be ‘treated’ for rebelling (after he tried to break Sawyer out of the cage/compound earlier this season); and we’ve seen Juliet wanting to KILL to get off the island.

    We’re definitely in for more fun along those lines, and it looks like Mr Friendly might be more of a friend than we’ve guessed so far. And NOT Jack’s boyfriend. Quit it with that, people! LOL.

    A few Qs:

    1. Anyone know where A Brief History of Time was shown/mentioned (again), as Tina (#66) commented? I didn’t notice it, and am wondering what it might have added to the episode.

    2. LI (#140): awesome question about Locke’s reaction to the wheelchair. I thought the same thing. Anyone would be upset about it, but Locke wore the face of a man BROKEN by having to RETURN to the wheelchair. Maybe it was just how the scene played out, but does anyone else think there’s a chance that Locke could be jumping around in time as well as Desmond? Many of us do think he knows more about the island than any simple plane crash victim would be able to figure out.

    3. The producers seemed to genuinely disagree over whether Mikhail was dead (on the Official Podcast). Did anyone think this was fishy? At first I thought they were just joking around, but then it came up again and they really seemed to differ on the question.

    4. How do we know the mummy couple aren’t Adam and STEVE? We ARE due for a gay character, according to the producers. Hopefully they’ll do better than some random dead guy, however. My money’s on Walt. He’ll return all grown up and reveal that the island’s secret is that it makes you gay. =]

    [Disclaimer: This is wishful thinking on my part!]

  163. Hammer says:

    Spin – I’m conflicted with the podcast saying Mikhail might not be dead. They had him literally shooting blood in a stream out of his ears. If he survived violence like that, he’d have to be brain damaged. So I have trouble with them overselling his death just to bring him back to life.

  164. Tasha says:

    Spin- A Brief History of Time was on the table at the moments Locke hits the lights and walks into the living room with Ben.

  165. samsandrasan says:

    I was wrong about Vishnu being the statue Ben had displayed. It was Genesha. This is interesting if you take the time to read it. Especially how Genesha lost one of his trunks when his father attacked him.

    http://www.pantheon.org/articles/g/ganesha.html

    Also interesting that Ganesha rides a mouse or rat and the painting of the blonde woman in Ben’s living room has her holding a large pet rodent in her hands.

  166. SpinPapi says:

    Hey Hammer, that’s what I thought, too. He looked pretty dead to me!

    I did read (on this blog, I think, after that episode) that Mikhail appeared to be breathing still, so maybe it was just a big joke they were making on the actor not lying still enough. It would be a pretty big con for him to ACT dead, but then, I wouldn’t put it past the Others. Dead makes more sense though.

    Thanks, Tasha…I hadn’t noticed that about the book. They really want us to notice that book, don’t they! Second time it’s appeared on the show.

  167. panda says:

    Awesome episode. Best of the season.

    A few things:

    I think Locke didn’t blow up the sub. I think he was soaked because he swam back to the dock after moving the sub out or hiding it somewhere. I couldn’t clearly see a sub blow up, could you? Maybe he put the C4 on the dock. Locke has a plan we’re just now begining to see–didn’t everyone think he was a blind moron for blowing up the Flame? I think this is related to Ben’s hold of power–if people on the island that were recruited realize that there is now no way to leave and get back to their life, or communicate with the outside world, they may rebel or we may have a mutiny on our hands. Does John want to be the leader of the Others and everyone on the island? It makes sense that he would never want to leave due to his paralysis. I think the point of the flashback was to see how easily John was conned by his Dad, twice, and now to see he only wants Ben to *think* Ben conned him into blowing up the sub. Locke clearly knows more about the island–in the very begining when he saw Smokey and described it as a “beautiful light” or something like that.

    There’s a lot of back story on Rousseau to learn yet. She’s definitely connected to all this–I think she’s lying about the sickness and lying about shooting her team. I think she goes way back with the Others but I’m not sure what the history is.

    Great catch on the Dharma food in the fridge–clearly the Others are Dharma or took over (was there ever a final verdict on the purge thing?) but there are still food drops, and Dharma still exists somewhere in the world, thinking the island is ok.

    One other thing that’s been bugging me: when Jack found his dad’s coffin it was empty, but in the episodes when we see the Tailies and what they went through, there’s a shot of Eko pulling Christian’s clearly dead body out of the water and I think burying him. So I think he’s actually dead, just came out of the coffin due the plane ripping apart.

    The look of fear in John’s dad was great–great acting last night–and I think genuine. Perhaps he had been living on the island after crashing or something and thought it was deserted, and suddenly the Others came out of nowhere to get him. It would make sense that the island would bring them together, sort of like Desmond and Jack after they met while running.

    I love this show.

  168. Myk says:

    The way Ben summoned TMFT (Locke’s father), it seemed like maybe they’d had Lcoke’s father for some time. The Others seem to have done their homework regarding all the Losties. Maybe they figured out who Locke’s father was during his “background check” and decided to bring him to the island as a bargaining chip.

    I think all that stuff about the magic box is just Ben’s way of messing with Locke. While the island clearly has mystical qualities, I think Ben knows Locke feels a “spirtual” connection to the island and he’s just playing into his beliefs (just like he told Lock he had come for him when he was their prisoner). I haven’t really fleshed this idea out very well….

  169. theOtherdave says:

    [quote comment=”46014″]Regarding “the box”, I felt that it was just a metaphor used to make Locke understand. The room where his “father” was found is not the box, and “the box” probably isn’t anything like a box.

    My guess is that the smoke monster, or even the island, is “the box” and is able to manifest anything people want to see.[/quote]

    I wasn’t surprised by the box at all. In fact, what Ben had told Locke was still ringing in my ears. “You can whatever see you want to see.” Or something to that effect. So that John saw his father wasn’t a big ol deal- since he had been flashbacking to the past. And I do not believe his father is really there.
    But then…. what MAKES this box manifest thoughts into visual things? ESP? Someone (an Other) may have control of the ‘box’. Could it be Ben?
    Ooh another thing crossed my mind while watching this show, what if Ben can read minds and make you see things? He IS the “Great Manipulator”.

  170. MasterPo says:

    I don’t think Ben can read minds or see the future. I just think he’s super intellegent and therefore is able to “connect the dots” better than an average person thereby coming to logical conclusions.

    Regarding the death of the Russian, if that sonic (I’m not convinced it’s sound waves) fence is meant to be a barrier it’s a pretty poor defense IMO.

    Here’s why:

    The beam only came on after the Russian had completely gone through the barrier. It seemed to take time to “power up”. And the effect was very narrowly confined. Siyd(sp), Kate and Locke were standing just a few yards from the barrier and they weren’t hurt. Now if a hostile force was trying to invade, seems to me they could just quickly run right through the barrier and be well clear on the other side long before the barrier activated and was able to stop them.

  171. MKS says:

    Few observations:
    -If I remember correctly, Hurley ended up purchasing a Box Factory after the chicken place blew up.
    -Locke worked at the same box factory.
    -Hurley’s lawyer was in the same building as the one Locke found his father in.
    -I remember Hurley in his lawyer’s office, when a person flew past the window. Could it have been Locke?
    -Also, Sun’s boyfriend was tossed out a window.
    -Hurley’s imaginary friend Dave tryed to convince him to jump off a cliff.
    -Locke’s mom was at the same mental hospital as Hurley.
    -Locke’s dad is a con-artist, probably the same one who is responsible for Sawyer’s parents deaths.

    There are so many threads, I am not sure what to make of them. My head is spinning!

  172. aevkc says:

    [quote comment=”46164″]
    I love this show.[/quote]
    Ditto. How often does a form of entertainment make us think this hard and challenge our brains this much? I want to know the answers, but not too soon because I don’t want this ride to end!

  173. FMGreenSteve says:

    A few thoughts after my second viewing…

    When Richard opens the door to the room with Cooper inside (“the box”), there is a sound of air escaping/decompressing, like one would expect to hear when entering or leaving an air-tight chamber.
    But why?
    Now I’m leaning toward this being an apparition, the smoke monster, SOMETHING other than actually a man in a room. Remember that before they open the door, Ben speaks to Locke about his father, about how Locke is afraid of him, about how he feels safe on the island because he can’t be found there… then they open the door and Locke see’s the man they were just speaking about. Ben filled Locke’s mind with the thought of his father, then his father appears. Perhaps if Ben had filled Locke’s mind with twinkies, there would’ve been a huge pile of twinkies in the room…catch my drift? Just like Ben said, whatever you want to see, is what will be there, or more simply, whatever you’re thinking about at the time, that’s what will be there.

    How about the idea that Locke is actually part of Dharma, sent back to the island to fight back.
    The Physical Therapist that we see place John in the wheelchair for the first time seemed very strange, and he made a point to say “You fell 8 stories and survived. I don’t wanna hear about what you can’t do.” It’s almost as though he knew Locke was extra-special. We know Dharma was experimenting on all sorts of human behaviors and abilities, so perhaps this therapist was sent by Dharma to recuperate Locke (mentally, at least), and to train him and prepare him for his “mission.”
    Overall, it doesn’t make too much sense, as Locke clearly was surprised by all of the Dharma stuff on the island, including the hatches, the button, the blast-door map. It’s a theory with thousands of holes, but it’s a fun concept to imagine he was sent there to fight back.

  174. MK says:

    SOOOOOO… I like the idea the Locke didn’t blow up the sub. At first I thought it was (no offense) a silly idea.

    But he WAS wet, and he was just told by the girl that he was supposed to do whatever Ben manipulated him into doing.

    And he didn’t need to go into the submarine. That big a chunk of C4 would have ripped a hole in the sub from out outside just fine… it would have behooved Locke to blow it and get the heck out of there.

    So go back and watch it… I have HD Tivo, and when Locke first goes to it, there are two lights on the right that clearly reflect against the sub’s metal.

    When he returns, and is wet, the shot is from his feet, tilting up, and by the time it’s on his head the camera has turned away from the end of the dock.

    In all subsequent shots the dock is shown in a blur, in a pan, and there is no evidence of the sub. There is little evidence of NO sub, but even as the explosion goes off, there’s no visual evidence that the sub is there.

    So either Locke stole it, or the editor/director are having fun with us.

  175. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”46171″]-I remember Hurley in his lawyer’s office, when a person flew past the window. Could it have been Locke?[/quote]

    Yes, I meant to bring that up too. I think it was definitely Locke falling past the window in that scene, it makes too much sense. That was a common theory since Season 1, so just seems to confirm it.
    That would also mean that Hurley’s bad luck was partly responsible for Locke’s injury, which has often been speculated.

  176. MasterPo says:

    FMG – More importantly, the line “Don’t tell me what I can’t do!” is/was Locke’s favorite thing to say when he was in the wheelchair.

    When the orderly said that I took it to mean that’s where Locke picked up the phrase.

  177. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”46179″]…So go back and watch it… I have HD Tivo, and when Locke first goes to it, there are two lights on the right that clearly reflect against the sub’s metal.

    When he returns, and is wet, the shot is from his feet, tilting up, and by the time it’s on his head the camera has turned away from the end of the dock.

    In all subsequent shots the dock is shown in a blur, in a pan, and there is no evidence of the sub. There is little evidence of NO sub, but even as the explosion goes off, there’s no visual evidence that the sub is there.

    So either Locke stole it, or the editor/director are having fun with us.[/quote]

    I agree that it’s inconclusive in the footage of the explosion.
    But why would Locke say “I’m sorry, Jack.” if he wasn’t actually blowing up the sub?

  178. Tasha says:

    Then again, Locke knows how to lie too! He might have not blown up the sub. I am a little LOST on that one.

    As far as him falling out a window, I don’t think that was Locke. It was a different building. The guy that was falling in Hurley’s flashback was falling face down. Also I saw somewhere else that the guy had a tie on.

    Maybe people falling from buildings is another space/time thing.

    I am going to go watch the episode with Hurley and the falling guy right now.

  179. Jen says:

    MKS- I don’t remember anything about Locke’s mom being in the mental hospital with Hurley. Where did that come from?

  180. Tasha says:

    Okay…someone already has the theory on youtube. You decide! LOL.

  181. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”46187″]Okay…someone already has the theory on youtube. You decide! LOL.

    Thanks Tasha. You’re right, it appears to be a different guy, but this might just be a continuity problem in the script. I still *WANT* to believe it was Locke.

  182. MK says:

    [quote comment=”46182″][quote comment=”46179″]I agree that it’s inconclusive in the footage of the explosion.
    But why would Locke say “I’m sorry, Jack.” if he wasn’t actually blowing up the sub?[/quote]

    Presumably because he doesn’t want anyone to know he stole the sub?

  183. Eng says:

    Poor Jack. If I were Jack, I would punch Locke in his face. I hope the sub is still here.

  184. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”46196″]Poor Jack. If I were Jack, I would punch Locke in his face. I hope the sub is still here.[/quote]

    Why “Poor Jack.” ? If Locke actually blew up the sub, he might have done Jack a favor. No one knows with any certainty that Jack and Juliet were really going “home.” They could’ve been taken offshore and killed for all we know.

  185. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”46144″]I might be wrong here, but I thought the last podcast confirmed the Claire/Jack thing. I’m also pretty sure he was referred to as Dr. Alpert or called himself Dr. Alpert in “Not in Portland”. I guess it doesn’t really matter if he’s a doctor or not…he’s a confirmed other.[/quote]

    My point is don’t assume you/me/we know anything about key character connections until they are “confirmed” on the show (multiple confirmations preferred). Multi-agenda Christian showing up at a critical “pull the plug” moment for Claire, saying he had a fling with Mom, and I was around/visited (before you can remember me – by the way) is not defacto proof he is her Dad. The podcast isn’t the show, so things don’t happen until they happen on the show and Christians claim, so far, hasn’t been corroborated by anyone (i.e. would not stand up in court).

    Podcast DeRavin didn’t say for sure Jack/Claire were related and only speculated what it might be like if Jack/Claire were to meet in future episodes as bro/sis.

    As for Cuse and Lindelof, they cavalierly say – So Jack & Claire are bro/sis – its true (dope-tee-dope-tee-doh). Yeah – these guys are responsible for weaving this mass intrigue/web/sci-fi tangle we are all addicted to, and you expect to get a straight ‘word-of-god’ answer. They absolutely reserve the right to mislead, misinform, tease our sensibilities and create-a-buzz via podcast. They also reserve the creative right to write/rewrite/unwrite whatever the heck they want in future episodes and nothing is certain until the series finale is over and the LOST prequel movie has earned every penny it can in every domestic/foreign market (theater/DVD/etc…) imaginable. The Christian character is not someone you take at his word, and the creators are not either in a media venue (podcast) that is designed to entertain and extend the mythos of the saga. [They are wonderful story-tellers though and I’d take there word in a second in any business/legal venue – whew! J2CMA]

    Another major weblog ran the Dr./not a Dr. debate for Alpert a few weeks back and no one could pinpoint when or if he was ever ref’d as a Dr. I went with their findings on that issue. And oh yes, he is one serious card-carrying Other (probably the Union boss). [:^)

  186. FMGreenSteve says:

    [quote comment=”46203″]

    My point is don’t assume you/me/we know anything about key character connections until they are “confirmed” on the show (multiple confirmations preferred). Multi-agenda Christian showing up at a critical “pull the plug” moment for Claire, saying he had a fling with Mom, and I was around/visited (before you can remember me – by the way) is not defacto proof he is her Dad. The podcast isn’t the show, so things don’t happen until they happen on the show and Christians claim, so far, hasn’t been corroborated by anyone (i.e. would not stand up in court)….[/quote]

    The reason I’m convinced he really is Claire’s father is because her Aunt Lindsey clearly knew who he was. She obviously wouldn’t have gotten that upset about a stranger.

  187. Lesley says:

    Wow! Lots of posts since lunch and great discussion and great green triangles Andreas! Florida connection that I see is that Juliette came from Miami, Kate was living in Miami with her husband. Tallahassee is in Florida and Sawyer and Kate have been there and Locke’s father is “TMFT”. More? Probably…. I cannot think right now, this discussion is blowing my mind. I find it hard to believe that the Hostiles did not know about the Swan and the button because all the Dharma manuals seemed to be at the Flame location. Perhaps Ben wanted the Swan to blow (an idea that has been rolling around in my head since last season), because that way everyone is truly on the island for good. My question is how is it that the Dharma folks were able to locate the island, buildg everything and bring all the supplies but no one has the ability to find it? Is the island itself located under the ice or under the water within a wormhole. Did the Dharma folks or the Hostiles try to hide the island from the world? What is the ping Mikhail referred to? Someone last week said they noticed that Patchy was still breathing after the sonic barrier penetration. So much to consider! Gotta go watch again.

  188. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”46210″][quote comment=”46203″]

    My point is don’t assume…[/quote]

    The reason I’m convinced he really is Claire’s father is because her Aunt Lindsey clearly knew who he was. She obviously wouldn’t have gotten that upset about a stranger.[/quote]

    I am sure Christian and Lindsey were well acquainted over the years, especially if he was one of the team of doctors running around the globe placing “special” fetuses in “special” uteruses to make “special” children for nefarious reasons.

    Hey, she may be mad at the Doc not because of what went on with Claire’s mom, she may be mad because the “special” fetus he put in her didn’t work out so well – and she got something like me out of the deal.

  189. Eng says:

    If Locke didn’t blow up the Sub, we have to assume that a regular person like John Locke knows how to pilot the Sub by himself.

    Who is John Locke ?

  190. Jo says:

    love the ideas that everyone’s presenting…but please read OTHERS’ posts!! too many people are saying the exact same thing…

  191. Joel says:

    I just had a crazy idea, and need you to tell me your reaction. Ben tells Locke he was born on the island, but none of the Others can get pregnant. How is it that he was born there, but no one else can be. Then Alex arrives 16 years or so ago. Now Aaron. My theory–Ben was “born” through a situation where his parents wished for a baby and the box brought Ben!
    Years later, Ben was wishing for a baby when Alex came along (perhaps not through the “box”). His faith is built on things happening as they are needed–remember him telling Jack that he dropped out of the sky when Ben needed a spinal surgeon? Maybe Alex came along as Ben was wishing for a child (or perhaps his former wife was wishing for a child).
    Now, the island (and thus, the Box) isn’t working correctly; Ben can’t heal, and Sun got pregnant, what iss going on?? Ben knows that he needs Locke to help him return the island magic.

  192. LostDamery says:

    Ugh,
    Reading these comments and trying to unravel the mystery of the LOST program is a labor of Love. Painful and yet I cant seem to get away….
    Now my 2 cents:
    cent 1= Locke may have tried to leave on the sub as his strong head proves, but it sank and he escaped only to blow it up just off the coast. I also think Locke is Jacob…he just hasn’t realized it yet…he is slowly catching up to the last time he lived this life cycle.
    Cent 2= TMFT as well as some other things are being manifest by the losties from the “box” and Ben is jealous because he is a have not and Locke is a have.

  193. Vector says:

    Is it possible that Locke’s dad is really the ‘big boss’, and the fact he is tied up is just a con? I’m beginning to think all the powerful dads are behind this thing – Jack’s, Sun’s, Penny’s, and Locke’s most of all!

    Maybe some people are on the ‘list’ because they are ‘related’ to the founders. Just a thought.

  194. Colienut says:

    I don’t think we can take anything Benry says at face value. For example when he says he was born on the island and has lived there all of his life, he may mean it in a figurative sense. Like he didn’t really have a “life” until he arrived on the island. BTW “Lost Horizon” was a short novel before it was a movie. You could read it in an hour. I forgot all about it until the post that mentioned it though. I’ll have to dig it up and reread it this weekend! Have fun.

  195. Toni says:

    so i’m thinking that back in season 2 when ben got captured that he was on his way to the losties to get locke–he knew about his tumor and he wanted to know locke’s secret to getting healed. maybe he brought tmft to the island very soon after the crash… as soon as he discovered locke’s story. I would imagine he planned early on to use tmft as some sort of leverage with john.

  196. Lesley says:

    Just watched again. Alex tells Locke, on the way to the sub, that her dad manipulates people. He has them do things that he wants and makes them believe it is their idea. I agree with the theory that John probably did not blow up the sub, just the dock. He was wet because he swam back from where ever he hid it. I am not so sure John would deprive his fellow Losties the right to leave the island just so he can stay for the rest of his life either. But he would rather that Ben believe the sub is gone.

    Regarding the time thing. Do you remember “Two for the Road” when the day seemed to be so short? One minute Hurley was having a picnic and then the card gme was over and it was getting dark? Could be that the island is crossing the time dimensions. The Losties are living on the island and living all the rest of the moments of their lives at the same time. Perhaps the “box” allows certain of these moments to become locked and actualized on the island.

    It is still not clear why we should have sympathy for the Hostiles. Dharma trying to kick them off paradise island was wrong but now Ben manipulates people to stay and play. He comes across as a dictator. And Tom warning Jack of the listening devices appears to imply that team Other may not be so united.

  197. Toni says:

    although having just said that, i must admit that i’m quite torn as to how i think tmft actually got to the island… there do seem to have been a lot of weird happenings on the island that seem to be best explained by the whole ‘thought manifestation’ theory (jack’s dad, charlie’s moth, kate’s horse, sawyers boar, eko’s brother, locke’s visions, sayid’s cat nadia…) the idea that the island/smokey is the box is rather tempting…

    but then again, i wouldn’t put it past ben to have made up that whole story about the box just to con john. he’s learned enough about john to know that his willingness to believe is his greatest strength as well as his greatest weaknes…
    sigh! i guess i’ll just have to wait (impatiently!) to find out:)

  198. MK says:

    [quote comment=”46232″]I am not so sure John would deprive his fellow Losties the right to leave the island just so he can stay for the rest of his life either.[/quote]

    No, and I agree about the sub, but remember in Season 2, he told Sayid that it was he who hit Sayid over the head and destroyed the radio, when Sayid was trying to triangulate the signal. And it was Locke who found out that Walt had burned the first raft, and he kept that to himself… Locke seems to have little to no interest in leaving the island, and when people make headway toward (apparently) doing so he either thwarts it or doesn’t act to stop someone else’s thwarting.

    Ben was right about some things — clearly Locke is “close” to the island, and Locke doesn’t want to leave for risk of being in a wheelchair again, and Locke is safe from his “father” on the island… at least he thought so.

  199. punker2828 says:

    Alright.

    Theory here.

    Claire will find out that jack is her brother the same way sawyer found out jack was christian’s son. Jack will say something that his dad would say,

    OR

    he’ll sing that song that claire is always talking about. The one that she told the adoption parents to sing to her child because her parents sang it to her.

  200. Missy says:

    [quote comment=”46014″]Regarding “the box”, I felt that it was just a metaphor used to make Locke understand. The room where his “father” was found is not the box, and “the box” probably isn’t anything like a box.

    My guess is that the smoke monster, or even the island, is “the box” and is able to manifest anything people want to see.[/quote]

    What a great observation. You made me think back to Hurley finding the car, Sawyer finding the beer. It seemed so random for them to find those things. But maybe that’s what they wanted to find, and they did! Excellent!

  201. iamlostfan says:

    I don’t think it was locke who fell from the building during hurley’s flashback. The timing isn’t right. Locke was paralyzed for a long time before the island, and I thought Hurley didn’t have the money for nearly as long before he went to australia.

  202. Toni says:

    in addition to previous examples of the thought manifestation theory, i just remembered that walt seemed to be able to manifest animals just by thinking about them (polar bear, bird…) the obvious exeption is that he was unable to manifest vincent in the first episodes when the dog was ‘lost’

  203. Toni says:

    sigh. once again.

    Hurley won the lottery one year prior to the crash of Oceanic Flight 815. he witnessed the guy falling outside the building when he visited his lawyer after having won the money. That would have been a few months prior to the crash.

    Locke was in a wheelchair for four years.

    But because some people trust what they see more than what they read…

    Here’s the guy falling down in “Numbers”. Note: Face definitely down, right side of the body towards the building.

    Here’s Locke’s fall from “The Man from Tallahassee”. Note: Face up, feet towards the building.

  204. denise says:

    [quote comment=”46049″]Very interesting…

    Ben knew, when Locke was in the closet with “his” daughter, how the episode would turn out, with the submarine and C4, and one way or another called for them to get Locke’s “dad” prepared (whether it is really him or a trick).

    Ben knew it ahead of time. He can read Locke’s behavior, and perhaps the future, but despite the reams of info he has on Locke, he doesn’t know what’s deep inside him, the connection to the island — which Locke doesn’t really know either but he speaks as if he does.

    And of course Ben knew the promise to let the rescue party go was a hollow promise. He’s still manipulative.

    But Ben was born on the island, and he’s 40-50, no? Dharma had arrived in 1980, so he was probably a teenager (if he aged appropriately) or older. Where did he live before that? What did they eat? Since now they live in Dharma housing, and eat Dharma food… and rely on plane crashes or boat crashes to get children…

    And who is the “great man” above Ben?

    Locke’s dad *is* certainly the man Sawyer has been looking for. But don’t forget that Jack saw HIS dad on the island very early on. So it could easily be an illusion, but is probably not.

    Is there any way for Jack and Kate to know that they are half-siblings? Will they be ignorant of this the whole series?!? ;)[/quote]

    Could the great man be Penny’s dad?

  205. Matt says:

    here’s my theory – There’s a spiritual side to this island. If anyone is familiar with the Law of Attraction, then they will understand. I believe that the island allows people to utilize the Law of Attraction to manifest the thing that they focus on most, but also have the greatest emotion for. That’s my idea of the secret of the island.

  206. Becky says:

    My observations:

    1. I loved this episode overall…it was awesome!

    2. I feel really bad for Locke. His Dad is a first class jerk and a murderer! I can’t believe it was his own father who took his kidney and then broke his back!

    3. Did anyone notice Sayid was tied to a child’s swingset? So are the kids that were kidnapped from the tail end of the plane allowed to play like normal children? Are there other children on the island?

    4. Ben had so many pics of Alex as a child. They must have a darkroom and the chemicals to develop photos as well as film and a camera. Does this mean anything?

    5. I knew Locke’s father would be behind that door way before they opened it. I am wondering what the connection is. Obviously Locke, like everyone else, has ‘Daddy’ issues and his father is a con artist like Sawyer. But why is he on the island? How long has he been there?

    6. Was Ben conceived on the island? How did his parents get there? Was he a test tube baby? An experiment?

    7. Jack is always mad at Locke for one thing or another…how will he react now that Locke has blown up the sub? I also liked how they reenacted the hatch discovery when Locke went into the sub.

    8. Will Alex and Rousseau finally meet? This storyline makes me so sad…a mother who lost her child and a child who was lied to and told her mother is dead. Very sad.

    Post edited by admin: Please don’t discuss episode previews.

    Looooooooove it! Lost is back!

  207. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”46156″]
    A few Qs:

    1. Anyone know where A Brief History of Time was shown/mentioned (again), as Tina (#66) commented? I didn’t notice it, and am wondering what it might have added to the episode.

    [Disclaimer: This is wishful thinking on my part!][/quote]

    Its on the bookshelf in Ben’s Room in TMFT episode. It is also the book that Aldo was reading in “Not From Portland”. I think that Ben has this books lends itself to what he said in an earlier episode, “Only fools are limited by space and time”. After all that talk about the “agic box” in this episode, I wonder if the Others, or rather Ben specifically, have access to some kind time bending device that allows them to access the world outside the island without ever really leaving the isalnd space.

    Who knows for sure…

  208. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”46157″]Spin – I’m conflicted with the podcast saying Mikhail might not be dead. [/quote]
    I agree with both of you in that this is confusing. And what adds to the confusion is another statement from the podcast that was something like “There isn’t a way to get through the sonic fence without dying.” So they’re contradicting themselves by implying Mikhail might still be alive.

  209. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”46214″]love the ideas that everyone’s presenting…but please read OTHERS’ posts!! too many people are saying the exact same thing…[/quote]
    I agree. It is, after all, the #1 bullet in the guidelines at the bottom of the page

  210. Pelinester says:

    Interesting that someone brought up Lenny’s ‘you’ve opened the box’ comment and how it may be connected to TMFT’s magic box.

    If you think about it, it could kinda make sense. When you use the numbers, in a way you could get whatever you imagine. Use the numbers and you can transcend the laws of chaos and probability. This could be in an essence what Ben was referring to, only simplified in a way that Locke could understand at that point in time.

    However, how the Numbers work is still yet to be defined. We know that they may work in gambling situations, where probability, chaos and chance are at play, but it may be more complicated than that, and with the right process or procedure, it may well be possible to simply obtain anything you could imagine? :S

  211. Tasha says:

    I saw this online. Is this Locke’s therapist??

  212. MasterPo says:

    Don’t believe the commericals. They always mislead you. Sun won’t kill Sawyer.

  213. [quote comment=”46306″]I saw this online. Is this Locke’s therapist??

    http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger2/5256/3545/1600/jacob.jpg%5B/quote%5D

    Interesting! It’s close, but I don’t think so.

  214. Tasha says:

    It’s hard to tell because in one the guys head is shaved…and in one it’s not. Is there a way to find the names of the actors?? Oh well. It’s probably not.

  215. Toni says:

    after just rewatching the episode, i’m thinking all the tribal art in ben’s apartment is remnants of old civilization that was on the island before dharma got there?

  216. MasterPo says:

    Regarding Locke, we still don’t know what happened to him after he left the commune.

    Was he arrested? Did he spend time in jail? IMO, most likely. He was part of a major drug producing/distribution organization. Even if he was the “patsy” setup to help the FBI infultrate the commune he was still part of the group. And he threatened the life of the FBI agent.

    I find it hard to accept they just let him walk away from all that.

  217. Toni says:

    also interesting to note that with regard to the above-noted clock anomolies–this is the first clock EVER to be seen on the island. I remember someone noted back at the episode where we saw juliet’s book club meeting that there was a conspicuous absence of clocks in her home and not one person in the club was even wearing a watch.
    so doubly interesting that the first clock we ever get to see does weird stuff…

  218. Tanner says:

    Looks like Syid’s cat, Kate’s horse and Hugo’s imaginary friend Dave all came from the magic box.

  219. Toni says:

    oh! and i just noticed that when locke returned all wet after entering the submarine, he didn’t have his pack anymore–why? where’d he leave it? to get blown up? that just doesn’t make sense to me. but if he left it in the sub and plans to return later….

    i must admit that i’m starting to warm up to the “he didn’t blow up the sub” theory after all.

    i’m thinking that there actually was just a simple submerge button like ben had joked about. locke clearly stated that he knew ben was trying to con him in the handcuff scene–he says this BEFORE ben describes why he wanted john to do it.
    locke’s done with being conned! his father has conned him, sawyer (and charlie) conned him and then ben’s con with the button in the hatch was the last straw– he’s learning his father’s game and conning the ultimate con artist–ben!

  220. [quote comment=”46315″]Regarding Locke, we still don’t know what happened to him after he left the commune.

    Was he arrested? Did he spend time in jail? IMO, most likely. He was part of a major drug producing/distribution organization. Even if he was the “patsy” setup to help the FBI infultrate the commune he was still part of the group. And he threatened the life of the FBI agent.

    I find it hard to accept they just let him walk away from all that.[/quote]

    Good questions, good thoughts.
    We saw that Locke was receiving (and then was denied) disability benefits (for depression) at the beginning of the episode, and I’m not convinced they would provide any benefits to convicted felons.

    Did he become depressed after his dad stole his kidney…or after he left the commune. Clearly all of the last episodes flashbacks happened after the commune because he wasn’t paralyzed at the commune.

  221. riterahg says:

    I am surprised that there was little reaction to Gigi’s comment about Mittelos being an anagram for “lost time.” I think you’re on to something there!
    Perhaps the reason Locke is “healed” on the island is because his accident hasn’t happened yet.

  222. [quote comment=”46323″]I am surprised that there was little reaction to Gigi’s comment about Mittelos being an anagram for “lost time.” I think you’re on to something there!
    Perhaps the reason Locke is “healed” on the island is because his accident hasn’t happened yet.[/quote]

    This is old news…almost 2 months old. There was a blog entry about it:
    http://www.lostblog.net/lost/tv/show/mittelos-bioscience

  223. Toni says:

    interesting… just saw on another site that the masks in ben’s apartment were actually in the brainwash video too…

  224. riterahg says:

    Oh, okay. Sorry. I’m new and need to get up to speed.

  225. Newbie says:

    something that has been bothering me for a while . . .

    the OTHERS keep referring to the incident that caused the sky to turn purple and the communication system w/ the outside world to fail. Do they even realize that this was caused by Desmond NOT pressing the button/turning the key at the swan station? (maybe i should be asking if WE know for sure this is the case – this blog makes me doubt all my first instincts 🙂 ) It seems to me the others are still pretty clueless as to why they have lost communication. So how do they know so much about the losties but not the island? this issue is making me doubt the idea that all of these characters keep reliving the same events over and over again . . . any ideas?

    also, can someone remind me of the story behind sawyer and jack’s dad, and how sawyer KNOWS christan was/is jacks dad?

  226. Tasha says:

    Newbie-

    Because Sawyer had met is dad and put the pieces together. He was a surgeon with a sun in the States. He said “that’s why the Red Sox will never win the World Series.” Along those lines…back in the epsiode Sawyer shot the wrong guy!

  227. Jay says:

    Please correct me if I am wrong, I haven’t had the chance to watch again, but did Locke say to someone (Ben?) something about ‘i could have been a navy seal for all you know…’?? I could have totally just made that up too.

  228. Tasha says:

    Nope. He said it. He had a bunch of medals on his wall in the flashback, but I am not sure what they mean.

  229. scott says:

    [quote comment=”46299″][quote comment=”46157″]Spin – I’m conflicted with the podcast saying Mikhail might not be dead.
    I agree with both of you in that this is confusing. And what adds to the confusion is another statement from the podcast that was something like “There isn’t a way to get through the sonic fence without dying.” So they’re contradicting themselves by implying Mikhail might still be alive.[/quote]

    I think the whole Mikhail is dead/may not be dead is not a literal debate. Instead, it is about the whole time/reliving time aspect of the show. Yes, he may be dead in the literal timeline we are watching, but he may not be really dead with time shifting/pendulums, etc.

  230. MasterPo says:

    Newbie – Of similar concern/question, if Desmond didn’t press the button 2 months ago and that EMP is what brought down the Oceanic plane, that opens MANY “why” questions:

    – Why were the Others surprised by this annomonly since it clearly happened at least once before, very recently?

    – Why did the hatch blowup/implode this time and not before when Desmond didn’t push the button?

    – Why did Ben, when he was in the hatch with Locke, say he didn’t push the button and nothing happened if so clearly there are ramifications for not pushing the button?

    – And most questionable/troubling: Why don’t/didn’t the Others know about the hatch and the need to keep pushing the button?! If the result of the massive EMP is they lost contact with the outside world and no can every find them again that hatch would seem to be the most important facility for the Others to control. But clearly they either didn’t know about it or didn’t care!

    Thoughts?

  231. [quote comment=”46339″]…- Why did the hatch blowup/implode this time and not before when Desmond didn’t push the button?…[/quote]

    The first time he didn’t push the button, it started to implode, but after he entered the numbers, it subsided.

    [quote comment=”46339″]…- And most questionable/troubling: Why don’t/didn’t the Others know about the hatch and the need to keep pushing the button?! If the result of the massive EMP is they lost contact with the outside world and no can every find them again that hatch would seem to be the most important facility for the Others to control. But clearly they either didn’t know about it or didn’t care!

    Thoughts?[/quote]

    This could be related to Ben WANTING communication to be cut off, in the same manner that he wanted the sub to be destroyed.

  232. MasterPo says:

    FMG – Ah, but be careful. We don’t know for sure that Ben *wanted* the sub destroyed. Remember that he and the Others are great deceivers. He may have wanted Locke to make it *look* like the sub was destroyed but is really still there.

    Maybe Ben hopes to return to the outside world one day after he/they achieve whatever they are trying to do.

  233. Tasha says:

    I think Ben knows what happened with the Hatch. Everyone else just thinks “something” happened. Maybe they didn’t know about the facility? I think maybe Ben saying he let the numbers run down was another manipulative thing. He was trying to make Locke think nothing would happen.

  234. MasterPo says:

    Tasha – Excellent point! Now it makes more sense to me. A pattern is definately forming.

    I think it’s *definately* possible Ben is working an angle to get Lock and the other Losties to systematically cut off the island from the outside world. First he get’s Locke not to push the button which results in the super EMP. Then he knows Locke will end up blowing up the Flame station. And now me *thinks* Locke just blew up the sub. (Plus he gave away one of their boats to Michael and Walt last season.)

    Maybe it’s all part of “the box” too. That Ben really really really wanted someone to come to the island that will help him make it possible to everyone to stay here forever. And *POOF* the plane crashes with just the right people to make it all happen!

  235. DocH says:

    Clocks! The clock in Ben’s bedroom is all over the place – 3 & 4 hour differences, between shots/takes. A terrible continuity error by the crew OR is time really zinging along (forward/backward) at the rate indicated. The question then comes “when have we seen clocks before?”. No one can find an on island scene where there is a clock (the Hatch countdown TIMER is not a CLOCK), and you never see a watch on an Other. So Ben gets a clock – he MUST be the head honcho. Locke has a watch – does that make him important too? Does he see how fast time is moving? . Remember, early on Locke looked to his watch, then to the sky and said it was going to rain in 1 minute, which it did. I think he was talking to Charlie..

  236. LostDamery says:

    Didn’t Jin bring a special watch and Michael was trying to steal it?
    Now I am beginning to think the whole Lost Island is for Ben and he is the only one who keeps memory of each iteration of the time cycle…that is how they got the loads of notes on the losties (Ben is keeping track). He is manipulating the losties because he is trapped by Smokey and he is trying to manipulate them into helping him escape the island. The defence is not that Smokey is keeping losties off the island but Ben on the island. Ben is using his Magic box to pull from the real world people and things to help him manipulate the others so he can escape the island….?
    or maybe not?

  237. Lesley says:

    I still go back to the theory that all the Dharma operations manuals were stored in the basement of the Flame (that is where Sayid got the map). So surely Mikhail, Ms. Klugh and Ben (at the very least) had to know about the EM anomaly and the button, no?

    I expect that Ben knows everything factual that there is to know about the island and even the facts surrounding everyone living on the island. But it certainly appears that his recruits are coerced into joining Club Other (jeez.. remember the bus?)in a manner that would require his eventual redemption. Perhaps he is not privy to the absolute secrets of the island for this very reason.

    I think Ben and Locke are playing a chess game of sorts. The big question I have is what piece does TMFT represent?

  238. Tailie in 42C says:

    re: Comment 239
    predicting rain a minute from now sounds more like a desmond trick than a locke trick.

  239. DocH says:

    I forgot about the Jin/Michael battle royale over the watch. Jin though it was stolen, but I think Michael found it and pocketed it because it was nice. Folks were scouring the beach after the crash for any thing of salvage.

  240. Edo says:

    To the guy that mentioned the similarities between lost and the movie Lost horizon.
    You said nobody needed a haircut as one of your arguments, but in season 1 ( or was it 2 ? ) Charlie gets a haircut from Claire.
    Interesting but wrong 😛

  241. Edo says:

    [quote comment=”45973″]”Lost” is a remake of the 1940’s Frank Capra film, “Lost Horizon” as you can see even the name is similar. The film is also about a plane crash and a secluded civilization. The island serves as a shangri-la for the inhabitants. I strongly suggest you go find this movie and you will know how lost ends and what it is all about. or i could tell you. Locke will leave the island and be crippled again. Jack will also try to leave but he sees that he doesn’t belong in the real world and attempts to return to the island and eventually find it after seven years. It teaches a lesson to find a place where you are trully happy. another spoiler is that, have you notice nobody has needed a haircut? thats because everybody has a lifespan of 200 years and dont really change. Its all based on the movie “Lost Horizon”. I just thought I might share this with the world.[/quote]

    this post I meant 🙂

  242. jennip83 says:

    Maybe I am reading too much into it, but did anyone else notice that when Ben opens the door to the “box” John doesn’t seem to see his father at first? He kind of looks around like “ooh, there’s a gray wall, and black barrel, ooh, and a red barrel”. I would think the man beat up in the chair gagged in the middle of the room would be the focal point as soon as the door opened. And, I mean, it’s not like it was some enormous room or anything. I just thought it was strange and wondered if anyone else had noticed it.

  243. Hammer says:

    Yeah, noticed it. Just seemed to me like over acting for the dramatic moment of seeing his father.

    I want to support Andreas’ point that the “box” isn’t really a box. It was just how he explained it to Locke. I think that Ben meant that you can see whatever you want, but it doesn’t have to come out of a box. The room Locke’s dad was in was a storage room, not a box.

  244. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46346″] Remember, early on Locke looked to his watch, then to the sky and said it was going to rain in 1 minute, which it did. I think he was talking to Charlie..[/quote]

    Good point, some of Locke’s behavior points to him having Dez like visions. I’m keeping it in mind…

  245. Wow…249 comments…and it’s only Friday!

  246. Meg says:

    Another point for the box not actually being a box, and definately not being that storage room: Why would the box be in a Dharma-made place? I was lead to believe the “box” has always been on the island. Either that or it is the island.

  247. MasterPo says:

    “The Box” might simply be a metaphore. No realy box or container. Like Locke always said, the island will give you what you want. Maybe the island and this hidden environment is the “box”?

    Then again, the “box” could also be a reference to Pandora’s Box and the evils that come from opening it.

  248. Sci Fi Girl says:

    I don’t know, I just don’t buy all the more spiritual theories of the island. Given the Stephen Hawking books, Desmond’s supposed time travel, the 70-year-old womb of a 20-year-old girl, “Only fools are enslaved by time and space,” the Mittelos anagram, the word “anomaly” (a specific term in quantum physics), the goofy clock and now Locke’s dad showing up on the island, I think the show revolves around time travel, parallel timelines, wormholes, etc.

    My first thought was that Richard Alpert had jumped through a wormhole or rip in spacetime to retrieve Locke’s dad from another time and place and bring him to the island in the current time sequence, so he is really on the island. I think that’s why Locke’s dad looked so freaked out. I think Ben was referring to the wormhole when he talked about the box. It gives him access to many things in many times, so if you want it, he can make it appear.

    I also completely agree with the earlier post that Locke’s reaction to the wheelchair was unusually strong. Desmond’s time travel happens because of the hatch explosion and he’s taken to a point in the past related to another physical trauma, falling off the ladder. Similarly, Locke would be brought back to the point he falls from a building. If this logic is on the right path, the question I have is what traumatic physical injury/event will happen to Locke on the island that will cause him to cycle back to the point of his fall?

    I predict that Locke will be involved in some kind of explosion or massive event in the near future related to the presence of his dad on the island, which will cycle him back to the wheelchair if he fails, but let him move forward in time if he alters his future in the “right” way. I don’t have much to base this own but my own thoughts and that the producers like Stephen King, whose most important work of his career, the Dark Tower series, ultimately relates to choices, regrets, redemption, and the never-ending cycles people put themselves in.

  249. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”46362″]…In C252, Sci Fi Girl wrote: If this logic is on the right path, the question I have is what traumatic physical injury/event will happen to Locke on the island that will cause him to cycle back to the point of his fall?…[/quote]
    ————-
    Q&A#1 – Why were Lockes’ legs so effected when he was in proximity to the “Black Rock” shipwreck? Does he have a previous timeline to the (pirate?) ship? [arrgh matey].
    Q&A#2 – If all the forumnistas here say that the Hurley falling body/plummet was a few months before the 815 crash and the Locke fall was 4 years before the 815 crash… can Lockes’ fall be the same fall – only on different timelines? One timeline experienced by Hurley, the other one experienced by Locke – the one Locke was ‘locked’ into (poor humor – sorry). In the Hugo timeline it was only a passing observation and did not influence his timeline.

  250. MasterPo says:

    DocH – He was also effected when he and Boone first found the Beach Plane.

  251. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”46367″]DocH – He was also effected when he and Boone first found the Beach Plane.[/quote]
    ————–
    Forgot about that one too – excellent point.
    Stray thought – what happens to Locke when he gets close to The 4 Toed Statue (T4TS)?

    (jokingly – he collapses to the ground, soils himself, and starts singing “Hey Macarana” – LOST creators take that as a freebie).

  252. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”46181″]FMG – More importantly, the line “Don’t tell me what I can’t do!” is/was Locke’s favorite thing to say when he was in the wheelchair.
    When the orderly said that I took it to mean that’s where Locke picked up the phrase.[/quote]
    ———–
    This just struck a new chord with me. If Locke is truly travelling on various timelines AND he is aware of it… perhaps his thought is – if I am unable to do what I want/need to do now – I’ll just wait for the next/previous timeline to do what I want (NEED) to do. If Colonel Locke is on a genuine mission (aginst Ben/Dharma/whoever…), then he is in combat mode (seen some of that lately, haven’t we)…

    (like Time Cop?)

  253. Tasha says:

    Ummm. Okay. Well here is a question WAY WAY WAYYYYY off the subject. Can somewhat refresh my memory here???

    Locke told a story to Sawyer once, about how his sister died and came back as a dog. Or so his mother had thought. Wasn’t he raised in Foster Care? I am coming up with another theory and can’t remember this well. Someone PLEASE let me know!

  254. samsandrasan says:

    [quote comment=”46041″]I think that picture I was talking about is a model of inner earth or a picture taken at the north or south pole. In the very center of the picture is something bright…possibly a star or marking one of the poles. I think it is significant.[/quote]
    Tasha-
    I found the exact poster that is on Ben’s bedroom wall. I did a search for star charts and came up with a poster that is a map of the universe. It is the very same poster; just hung at a different angle.

    Check it out:

    http://www.skymaps.com/store/cat10.html#star_chart-MotU

  255. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”46186″]MKS- I don’t remember anything about Locke’s mom being in the mental hospital with Hurley. Where did that come from?[/quote]

    They were in the same mental hospital. Did someone answer that already??

  256. Stacy says:

    Yeah, Since Jacks father is also that chicks father, and they don’t know it yet, its only perfect that Lockes father is also Sawyers father.. see a patern. Somehow, everyone is going to be related. But I agree, this was a fantastic episode. I think the writers are really good.

    [quote comment=”45922″]I think you might be right about the guy Sawyer is looking for might be the same guy as Locke’s father. This episode was unbelievable. My jaw dropped when he opened the box. I don’t know what I am going to do until next week. Did anyone see the previews for next week? Did Sun hit Sawyer?[/quote]

  257. aevkc says:

    [quote comment=”46374″]Ummm. Okay. Well here is a question WAY WAY WAYYYYY off the subject. Can somewhat refresh my memory here???

    Locke told a story to Sawyer once, about how his sister died and came back as a dog. Or so his mother had thought. Wasn’t he raised in Foster Care? I am coming up with another theory and can’t remember this well. Someone PLEASE let me know![/quote]
    Yes, Locke said his sister died when she fell off a swing set and broke her neck. His foster mother thought it was her fault and everyone was worried she would kill herself. But then one day a golden retriever appeared at the house and slept on his sister’s bed and became his foster mother’s pet. The dog stayed w/ them until his foster mother died five years later then “went back to wherever she came from.” Kate then asked if Locke thought the dog was his sister. He said that would be silly, but that his foster mother believed that. She thought the dog had come back to tell her it wasn’t her fault, to let her off the hook. He related this to the boar that was after Sawyer, wanting Sawyer to believe he was being let off the hook as well.

  258. aevkc says:

    You know, in relating that story about Locke and the dog and thinking about Locke’s father possibly being the real Sawyer, I’m wondering if Locke’s known the connection between his father and Sawyer all along. Originally I thought Locke was just very intuitive when he told Sawyer the story about his mother and the dog. But now I’m wondering if he’s know who our Sawyer was all along and what his father had done to Sawyer’s family.

  259. Mr Ecko says:

    Great theories about the possible Sawyer/Locke connection, guys (and gals)…but, we may be reading a little too much into it. It is very likely that Locke’s dad may be the Sawyer that Sawyer is looking for. It is, however, very unlikely that Locke knows about it already. He was just trying to help Sawyer with his “problem”; same as he offered advice to Shannon, Boone, Charlie, etc, etc. He is a wise sage, that John Locke.

    One thing I was thinking, and I know it is “out there”…but what if this Jacob guy (and possibly other of the Others) can shapeshift and the visions the Lostaways have been seeing are Others in disguise. Maybe some of them are spirits/angels/demons and the reason people like Mikhail know so much about the different people is that the leaders of the Others (men like this Jacob) are spirits or Greek gods or whatever, already know who these people are, and tell everyone else. This may explain how some of the them travel through the forest so quickly and “whisper” in the jungle.

    If any of you haven’t seen the “whispers” section on Lostpedia.com….go there now and let your world be rocked. (One of the voices in the scene where Shannon gets shot appears to be that of Boone, waiting for her to die).

  260. aevkc says:

    [quote comment=”46409″]Great theories about the possible Sawyer/Locke connection, guys (and gals)…but, we may be reading a little too much into it. It is very likely that Locke’s dad may be the Sawyer that Sawyer is looking for. It is, however, very unlikely that Locke knows about it already.
    [/quote]

    You are probably right about Locke not knowing. The only thing that throws me off (and I think someone might have mentioned this at some point already) was the fact that back in Season Two Locke asked Sawyer who he got the name Sawyer from, who he took it from. Something about the way he asked the question got my antennaes wiggling. But that might have just been Locke being intuitive. And thanks for the heads up on the whispers site. Wow, that’s some interesting stuff!!

  261. Erin says:

    Have we heard any whispers lately? I can’t think of any…

  262. sydney says:

    [quote comment=”45973″]”Lost” is a remake of the 1940’s Frank Capra film, “Lost Horizon” as you can see even the name is similar. The film is also about a plane crash and a secluded civilization. The island serves as a shangri-la for the inhabitants. I strongly suggest you go find this movie and you will know how lost ends and what it is all about. or i could tell you. Locke will leave the island and be crippled again. Jack will also try to leave but he sees that he doesn’t belong in the real world and attempts to return to the island and eventually find it after seven years. It teaches a lesson to find a place where you are trully happy. another spoiler is that, have you notice nobody has needed a haircut? thats because everybody has a lifespan of 200 years and dont really change. Its all based on the movie “Lost Horizon”. I just thought I might share this with the world.[/quote]
    Didn’t Sawyer get a haircut from Kate?

  263. XtraCripsy says:

    Having finished “Bad Twin,” I think I’ve finally been able to tie in this mythology to the what we’ve been finding out about Locke.

    Who is the only Lostie who could possibly have a twin and not be aware of it? Someone raised in a foster home.

    What is Locke’s special connection to the island? Could his twin possibly be Jacob? Being in control of whatever forces are on the island, you would think that he would favor his brother over anyone else, including Ben.

    Look at the bond that Ecko shared with his brother. (I’m not going to mention Charlie and his bro.)

    Maybe John and Jacob were both born on the island.

    The Adam skeleton at the cave had a pair of black and white stones in his pocket like the ones Locke showed Walt when he told him that the island was special. The colors could be interpreted as making a statement about race, but it could just as well be about good and evil. Who is Eve then? Maybe he’s going to meet some sexy Other chick in the pool room one night, who knows?

    The island is Locke’s home; he was meant to live there. In the real world he was used and abused to no end. Here he thrives, and is at peace.

    Jacob could have brought Dad back to the island for all the he put John through.

    John might be the rightful heir to the island, and it might be Desmond’s role to make sure that this happens.

    Jacob could have been the leader of the Hostiles who purged the Dharma folks. Now, he wants his brother to take over.

    Then again, I could be wrong.

  264. Adrian says:

    Anyone notice that while Lock has aged, his father hasnt. And someoen mentioned how is it that the sub was so close to the Others compound, since it was sorounded by those sound wave thingies. He is right, I watched the previouse episode, and when the show the village on the map, it is not along the shore of the ocean. Interessting.

  265. Tailie in 42C says:

    shave & a haircut. i am not entirely sure ‘who got their hair cut when’ is a continuity/plot subtext that needs to be explored. sure there were a few razors on Flight 815 (imagine how dull they are in the tropical humidity), but we have seen a few of the guys shave. jack, locke, cpace? some have been to the hatch and other places with shower facilities. what scares me is the legs of the island beauties after 80 days on the island, in the sun, in the humidity. clothes tend to be clean and/or dirty depending on the episode or level of adventure – but i have never, ever seen a hairy girl leg in two and a half seasons. perhaps the ‘flying thru time’ theory is right. it has only been three or four real time days – where guys only shave once, maybe one gets a haircut, and gals haven’t the need yet for the epi-lady.

  266. Tailie in 42C says:

    Adrian C264 – has locke aged? i think he is forty something here and in flashback. just because he hasn’t any hair from four years prior (window toss day), you can see his head is shaved voluntarily. plus if his fake-dead is normal dad age, that means he is sixty something. a 64 year old won’t look much older at 68, while a 44 year old may appear to have aged considerable from the time he was 40. thats’ just guys… many gals look better at 44 than 40.

  267. Tailie in 42C says:

    …fake-dad, not fake-dead -oops

  268. Tasha says:

    I think Locke is 58 if you go by his date of birth in the last episode.

    I have a question. Did I miss something? What is significant about Adam and Eve? I just thought they were two dead people. Are they someone from the island right now? I am confused there.

  269. Tasha says:

    Or is it 48. Sorry.

  270. LostFreak says:

    Did anyone else notice the painting’s in Ben’s house? There was a small one of the island, but there was also a large painting of a woman. Any idea who that could be?

  271. mikey says:

    maybe the “magic box” is the metal box in the arrow station

  272. nick says:

    it might be a long shot but maybe anthony cooper came on the island whit the reel henri gale on is balloon.the way ben described himself as a millionnaire traveling the world when he was pretending to be Gale it seems reasonnable to think that Cooper would of wanted a new con.

  273. Omar Kamel says:

    I’m pretty amazed at how much feedback this episode has been generating 😉 Then again, well, I guess it’s not just me that thinks Locke is easily one of the most interesting characters on the show.

    Locke totally and absolutely won me over when he spent most of an episode making a dog whistle to get Vincent back for Walt. It just blew my mind that rather than just hand over Vincent to Walt, he specifically let Michael do that. In that single moment, I decided that Locke was a wonderful man – and I’ve loved him dearly for that ever since. I ached for the turmoil he had to endure in Season 2. As far as I’m concerned Season 2 was pretty much the ‘Let’s REALLY Mess With Locke’ season, and this episode didn’t quite let up. In a very real sense – if we’re going to get biblical – Locke has been Lost’s Job. Whereas Sawyer’s life was ripped apart by a stranger (as far as we know) and Kate’s life was sent into a downward spiral because of a step-father (who to my knowledge we’ve never seen, and therefore may or may not be related to anybody else), and Jack had to endure a not-quite pleasant father – Locke is the only one who’s been so fantastically betrayed by this man whom he believed to be his father. And yet, as we have seen in this episode – Locke still has almost naive faith in some kind of innate goodness. I mean, hell, after all that’s gone on, rather than simply hand over his father to the cops when he very easily could’ve, he actually tried to appeal to his goodness, almost blissfully aware that no such goodness existed in there…

    Now, although some kind of future awareness would explain some of Locke’s otherwise confusing behavior, I still tend to believe that Locke’s been playing it by ear. I somewhat think there might be some credibility to the notion that he didn’t actually blow up the sub, because as I mentioned before – Locke’s choices on winning the chess game at the Flame were NOT those of somebody who’s sabotaging escape plans. He may not want to leave the island – but Locke, as I believe him to be, would not impose indefinite captivity on everybody else on the island. I simply don’t buy that. I could well be wrong, but I don’t think I am, at least not about Locke.

    I’m with sci-fi girl in terms of not believing that the explanation for everything is essentially a spiritual thing – first of all – that would be a bit too cheap a framework, and would not be very satisfying. The creators of the show have consistently claimed that there is a rational scientific explanation for all that’s been going on. I’m still holding them to that, and if they don’t deliver, well, I’ll sent my magic angels out to beat the living crap out of their collective butts 🙂

    The box – is NOT a box. I recall a statement by one of the creators to the effect, and I’ve mentioned this before – that Lost can be seen as One Big Rube Goldberg Device – and THAT is what I remembered when Ben started talking about ‘the box’.

    Also – I do not for a second believe that Locke’s father is an apparition. He’s there, he’s real. He’s the Man from Tallahassee, and he’s pulling another con on Locke. Yup. That’s what I believe. He’s either there to CON Locke or to test him. Maybe he’s there to see if Locke can forgive, maybe he’s there to see if Locke can kill. I’m not quite sure, but he IS there, and was NOT summoned ‘magically’ by Ben. He’s BEEN there for a while too, and either he was ‘auto-magically’ brought there by the island itself or he’s behind much of what’s been going on.

    I agree that the expression on Locke’s face when he saw the wheelchair was very, very extreme – and – well, I suspected that it looked like he had been there before, but then again, it could just be that for a man so dis-empowered as Locke had been – the notion of having to live in a wheelchair was simply that horrifying. Remember, Locke is quite possibly the single loneliest character on the show, and unlike Kate for example, or Sawyer, his loneliness is NOT by choice. He longed for his dad, longed for the commune, and longed for Helen – and got nothing. So for me – that expression can go both ways.

    Locke, also – and this might sound unusual – likes Jack. He might well think Jack is naive, but he trusts Jack in a way that he suspects Jack could never trust him.

    Argh, Today is NOT Wednesday the 28th 😦

  274. DocH says:

    Interesting Theory from blogger Anon! Danielle is thee only one the island. After the disease killed all of her castaway friends from her ship, including her infant daughter, she has survived on the island alone, and slipped into the demented, psychotic, paranoid person we see. All things – the crash, the island infrastructure, the people and imaginitive/mythical stuff – we see are simple/complex figments of her eroded mind. That is how she arrives and disappears from each scenario, at her will. I am not saying I endorse this theory, but I sure thought about it alot. That would be an amazing series finale… Danielle snaps out of it as she is recovered from the remote French Polynesian island she has been on for two decades.

    After thought #1 – Q? How would she imagine Sayid, since he was in Gulf War I/II, which was after her shipwreck? A? She can listen to all of the incoming news of the world through the comm tower, she just can’t broadcast out. Her perpetual broadcast is just imaginery in real life, but to her, it is real. (whew)

    After thought #2 – Q?&A Or perhaps she hasn’t been on the island for 16 years, but only 80 days. She is the only survivor of 815 (or a shipwreck) and this is how she is surviving in her heat-stroked, food deprived, sunburnt way. She lost her daughter in the process, her old-man (Ben). All of the LOSTies are folks she new at some time or place in her life and she is projecting them psychotically. Have radio access is why she would be up-to-date on current events like Sayids’ Gulf War. What other connections to France do we have besides her and Sayid in Enter 77.

  275. chris says:

    [quote comment=”45943″]Is anyone else scratching their head about the location of the submarine? I thought the barracks was in the middle of the island and surrounded by those deadly soundwave poles.[/quote]
    [quote comment=”46445″]shave & a haircut. i am not entirely sure ‘who got their hair cut when’ is a continuity/plot subtext that needs to be explored. sure there were a few razors on Flight 815 (imagine how dull they are in the tropical humidity), but we have seen a few of the guys shave. jack, locke, cpace? some have been to the hatch and other places with shower facilities. what scares me is the legs of the island beauties after 80 days on the island, in the sun, in the humidity. clothes tend to be clean and/or dirty depending on the episode or level of adventure – but i have never, ever seen a hairy girl leg in two and a half seasons. perhaps the ‘flying thru time’ theory is right. it has only been three or four real time days – where guys only shave once, maybe one gets a haircut, and gals haven’t the need yet for the epi-lady.[/quote]

    I’m not sure about this hair cut idea. To me its a bit like saying on the island people don’t need to use the toilet. Its a possibility that they don’t need to use the toilet, but after what they believe is 80 days or so someone would have probably mentioned it. In the same way if their hair wasn’t growing they would probably mention it in the show if it was significant. On the other hand the people on the island seem to dislike talking about strange things they see or experience… so you never know… I personally don’t believe it in this case.

    For me it would be disappointing if Ben could conjure up things like magic, so I chose to believe that Jon’s “dad” is there on the island. Even in this instance Jon conjuring him up himself would also be disappointing.

    I’d like to see more references to the numbers – seems they have left the show recently and I had thought they were very material.

  276. Pelinester says:

    I can’t come to terms with the ‘it’s all in someone’s head’ theory. It just doesn’t tie anything together at all and really only comes across as a ‘way out’ more than anything else. Besides, it’s been done so many times before, from Jacob’s Ladder to Identity to Stay.

    The most believable Lost ending theory I have heard yet is the ‘Pendulum’ theory. That one does work and doesn’t have to be too ridiculous. But then again.. I assume now that it has been published here that if that was what the producers had in mind, it would now be getting reworked. 😀

  277. Pelinester says:

    Oh and congrats to Andreas for his moderating of the comments recently. It’s much more pleasant and enjoyable when you don’t have to sift through all the ‘dribble’. 🙂

  278. Erin says:

    Just a quick note to say thank you to the Lost Blog for setting up these forums. I think they are fantastic. Lost is, without a doubt, the best show on television (the best thing that’s been on television for ages). It is so intriguing, and confusing! I love reading everyone’s ideas, theories, opinions. Really gets the mind working. I have NO IDEA what is happening on Lost, but I love trying to figure it out with all of you.

    How long until Wednesday???

  279. Erin says:

    Oh, I forgot to say, I agree with Pelinester. I think the Pendulum theory is the best one I’ve read so far. I really hope we’ll be seeing more of Desmond in a time-shift/flashback soon.

  280. FMGreenSteve says:

    I think I’ve figured out next weeks episode…but dag-nabit I can’t discuss it!!!

  281. wicky says:

    remember back when hurley was in the office and he saw the guy falling outside of his window? was that locke?

  282. LostDamery says:

    Thanks for the unread comment pointers they really help with long comment lists like this one.
    I really wish people would use them and not make comments like did “hurely see locke jump?”
    It has been hashed through in the previous comments.

    Here is my 3rd cent:
    I still think there are another set of others who are toying with the Losties, the hostiles and is part of Dharma. We will find that this whole thing is a mix of drugs, paranoia and high tech experiments. I think they monitor things from another location and the cable Sayid found is one of the communication links as they are tapped into the island and using some nano tech creation as the MONSTER and I am betting the whispers are actually the Dharma people. Who include Echo’s brother, Jacks Dad and TMFT…Jacob is a plant from Dharma and is not really the BIG man after all.
    Or I could be wrong…

  283. Christine says:

    [quote comment=”46671″]as they are tapped into the island and using some nano tech creation as the MONSTER…[/quote]

    Christine
    Comment 183, posted 1 week, 4 days ago – Quote and reply
    Has anyone read “Prey” by Michael Crichton? The black smoke reminds me of the swarm of nanobots in the book. Creepy.

    I got that black smoke pegged as nanobots already!

  284. john says:

    I’m not sure if this has been commented on… It’s a long list…
    So, Rousseau “killed” her lover, robert, right?
    But Ben is the ‘father’ of her daughter, and he’s still alive…
    Ben’s also been here his whole life, but Rousseau came here with a team…
    Somebody’s not telling the truth…

  285. Pelinester says:

    I have pondered this before too John.

    Either Ben is Danielle’s ex-partner, or he is simply Alex’s father in the adoptive sense. The problem with the former is that when Danielle captured Ben and handed him over to Sayid, she didn’t show any signs of recognising him. I guess that it is possible that she did recognise Ben as her old partner and simply didn’t want to go into it, but why would Ben even bother with the whole ‘Henry Gale from Minnesota’ spiel? I think it’s a bit of a stretch to assume that Danielle would simply hand the father of her missing Daughter over to Sayid for ‘torture’ without being more specific as to the information she would like to have extracted (in particular, the whereabouts of Alex). The other alternative is that Danielle is playing everyone and is actually in cohorts with the Others or some other group. I think this too is a stretch and I personally can’t see a realistic way for this to happen without it seeming ridiculous to the viewer.

    So I think it is pretty safe to say that Ben is not Alex’s real father..

  286. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”46440″]Who is the only Lostie who could possibly have a twin and not be aware of it? Someone raised in a foster home.[/quote]

    OR, since Sawyer’s parents were both dead, he was probably raised in foster care as well. Conisdering he was the one reading the Bad Twin manuscript, could Sawyer be the most likely candidate for one of the Twins?

  287. Hurley's Dad says:

    Something I don’t think has been mentioned yet, but feel free to correct me when I’m wrong.

    When the Losties see their apparitions, they are almost always emotionless (Locke’s Mom, Eko’s brother, Jack’s Dad, Dave etc.). Locke’s Dad looks scared when we see him. Something tells me he’s real.

    When Desmond didn’t push the buttons, it supposedly brought Flight 815 down. When Locke didn’t push the buttons, did it bring TMFT’s plane down? Is that how he got to the island?

  288. J-Dice says:

    Maybe Ben is John Locke’s brother.

  289. Lauren says:

    Did anyone notice that Claires dad is Jacks
    dad?

  290. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46709″]Did anyone notice that Claires dad is Jacks
    dad?[/quote]

    Are you serious?

  291. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”46711″][quote comment=”46709″]Did anyone notice that Claires dad is Jacks
    dad?[/quote]

    Are you serious?[/quote]

    LOL

  292. Ahahahahahahaha!
    A little comic relief after nearly 300 comments; that was excellent.

  293. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46550″]Interesting Theory from blogger Anon! Danielle is thee only one the island. After the disease killed all of her castaway friends from her ship, including her infant daughter, she has survived on the island alone, and slipped into the demented, psychotic, paranoid person we see. All things – the crash, the island infrastructure, the people and imaginitive/mythical stuff – we see are simple/complex figments of her eroded mind. That is how she arrives and disappears from each scenario, at her will.[/quote]
    I can’t buy into a theory that someone is imagining all the extra details and happenings of all the other people when the imaginer isn’t present…to me…huge stretch.

  294. LostAsFook says:

    I have not got a clue what is happening. Although Laurens’ comment re:Claire/Jack’s Dad has had me in stitches..!!

  295. Joel says:

    Good morning, it’s been a long night since Wednesday, and some of you are still writing. Someone’s comment about Rube Goldberg and Ben saying the box “makes anything you wish for” also relates to the theme of Hurley’s van episode: you make your own luck, or something to that effect. Remember Hurley’s dad (“Cheech”) telling him that he could hope, and “hope” got the van started. When Locke constructed the sweat lodge and saw Boone in a vision, is that what he was hoping to see? The theme of that experience was that he had to right his wrongs. So I guess there ae two ways to look at the “fixing” that is going on all over the place. The first is the parallel times or whatever allows people to go back and change destiny (isn’t the Goldberg machine a cylce that has no beginning and end?). The second is connected to hope and island mysticism. Both exist on the show, but which will emerge as the correct explanation for bringing TMFT?

  296. [quote comment=”46724″]…(isn’t the Goldberg machine a cylce that has no beginning and end?)….[/quote]

    Nope.
    A Rube Goldberg device, in general, is a contraption in which one individual event starts a chain reaction of other events that continue on, unaided by outside help, until the final goal is achieved. Like the game “Mouse Trap.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg

  297. Joel says:

    FMGreen Steve, Thanks for the clarification.

  298. DocH says:

    (many wrote about Ben being “Born” on the island).
    Being born does not necessarily mean physical birth, and what with all of the religious/spiritual subtexts & subplots in LOST, he may simply be referring to his Christian (or Other i.e. Jacob) “born again” experience. Many ‘born-agains’ consider their life has started anew the day that they were spirtually reborn. They consider that rebirth the first day of their life. So do we take Ben at face value (NOT) – he didn’t lie, he just wasn’t talking about his ‘physical’ birth.

  299. Jules says:

    [quote comment=”46570″] I’d like to see more references to the numbers – seems they have left the show recently and I had thought they were very material.[/quote]

    Locke fell from the 8th floor.

  300. XtraCripsy says:

    [quote comment=”46686″][quote comment=”46440″]Who is the only Lostie who could possibly have a twin and not be aware of it? Someone raised in a foster home.[/quote]

    OR, since Sawyer’s parents were both dead, he was probably raised in foster care as well. Conisdering he was the one reading the Bad Twin manuscript, could Sawyer be the most likely candidate for one of the Twins?[/quote]

    The flashback that shows him as a young boy experiencing the death of his parents, doesn’t show a twin.

    Besides, Terry O’Quinn is probably the most accomplished actor in this series, and it would make sense that he would wind up a major character in the plot.

  301. Pelinester says:

    Regarding Ben being ‘Born(again?)’ on the island – I actually think the dialogue was more along the lines of ‘I have lived on this island my entire life’ than ‘I was born on this island’. But I may be mistaken..

    Wow, do the comments usually get this big on here? Is 300 comments normal for The Lost Blog!? I’m glad I have been reading them as they propagate – it would be pretty much impossible to just come along now and try and read the whole thing! :S

  302. Ro-zgee says:

    Just watchiing this episode (again!) this morning and saw something that didn’t strike me earlier. In the scene where Jack and Kate are talking in the game room, Kate says the Others can’t be trusted, but Jack tells her he trusts them because she asked him to, when she wanted him to save Sawyer’s life. Kate says suddenly “Jack, what did they tell you?” Makes you think there is definitely something she doesn’t want him to know, and I think its more than the fact that she and Sawyer had a night together.
    What does anyone think?

    This is really a great group – great comments! Over 300 on one episode and going strong!!

  303. Meg says:

    I was wondering about that too, but I think Kate just meant her and Sawyer getting it on, I don’t think there was anything else she was trying to keep secret.

  304. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”46801″]Regarding Ben being ‘Born(again?)’ on the island – I actually think the dialogue was more along the lines of ‘I have lived on this island my entire life’ than ‘I was born on this island’. But I may be mistaken…
    :S[/quote]
    ———–
    Not mistaken – he said that too, verbatim.
    “I have lived on this island my entire life. (my entire Spiritual life).

  305. MKS says:

    I’ve been thinking about the last episode a lot. Here are some thoughts. I’m not sure if they mean anything, but if something makes sense, let me know.

    1. Ben(jamin) is the youngest son of Jacob and Rachel in the Bible. In fact, Rachel dies giving birth to him.

    2. In “Deus Ex Machina” Locke meets his biological mother who tells him that he had no father (immaculate conception), and that his birth was part of a bigger plan.

    3. In “Further Instructions” Locke has a vision (?) of Boone and they are at the airport together, before take off. Des is the pilot (and he does, in a way, “land” the plane in it’s location), Hurley is taking tickets, etc. He is told that Kate, Sayer, and Jack are the ones he needs to help/ save.

    4. In “The Cost of Living” Eko tells Locke he can fix the mess the Losties are in. As he is dieing, he also tells Locke: “You’re next”. Maybe the next to find enlightement? Know the truth about the island?

  306. Hammer says:

    Now that we know Ben says things so “his people” won’t question their own desire to “stay”, maybe this is another lie to manipulate them to believe anything he says to them about the island.

  307. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46843″]

    4. In “The Cost of Living” Eko tells Locke he can fix the mess the Losties are in. As he is dieing, he also tells Locke: “You’re next”. Maybe the next to find enlightement? Know the truth about the island?[/quote]

    To be in charge?

  308. Moonstar says:

    MKS wrote:

    4. In “The Cost of Living” Eko tells Locke he can fix the mess the Losties are in. As he is dieing, he also tells Locke: “You’re next”. Maybe the next to find enlightement? Know the truth about the island?

    To be in charge?

    To face smokey?

  309. Hammer says:

    He already faced Smokey.

  310. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”46856″]MKS wrote:

    4. In “The Cost of Living” Eko tells Locke he can fix the mess the Losties are in. As he is dieing, he also tells Locke: “You’re next”. Maybe the next to find enlightement? Know the truth about the island?

    To be in charge?

    To face smokey?[/quote]

    Maybe to face his past? Eko faced his brother, now Locke is facing his father?

  311. Hammer says:

    MKS – that could be…if Smokey was Locke’s dad in the TMFT. But I figure since Locke already faced Smokey once and saw good things, he wouldn’t have to face him again. Maybe now that Locke has been responsible of a few deaths…

  312. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”46861″]MKS – that could be…if Smokey was Locke’s dad in the TMFT. But I figure since Locke already faced Smokey once and saw good things, he wouldn’t have to face him again.

    Maybe now that Locke has been responsible of a few deaths…[/quote]

    I wonder if the deaths that Locke has been responsible for on the island are sort of “exempt” from Smokey’s wrath. After Boone’s death, Locke went through what seemed to be trials and then there was the cleansing sweatlodge he built. I wonder if for some reason, the additionals deaths that Locke has been part of aren’t also, “sacrifices the island required” not unlike Boone.

  313. scottc13 says:

    I think you are on to something Dragonfly.

    I think there was talk on one of the podcasts that some other survivors from the crash may be making an appearance.

  314. Rola says:

    [quote comment=”46826″]Just watchiing this episode (again!) this morning and saw something that didn’t strike me earlier. In the scene where Jack and Kate are talking in the game room, Kate says the Others can’t be trusted, but Jack tells her he trusts them because she asked him to, when she wanted him to save Sawyer’s life. Kate says suddenly “Jack, what did they tell you?” Makes you think there is definitely something she doesn’t want him to know, and I think its more than the fact that she and Sawyer had a night together.
    What does anyone think?

    This is really a great group – great comments! Over 300 on one episode and going strong!![/quote]

    I think once Jack saw Kate and Sawyer together on that survellance screen, he immidiately had it in his head that he wanted to leave the isalnd. Thats why he agreed so suddenly to do the surgery on Ben. He pretty much figured she had chosen Sawyer and he had not as much interest to stay(which doesnt fit his character since it seemed like he was there more than just to be with Kate). Thats why he made that remark about her making him trust the others (by sleeping with Sawyer). He has to trust them in order to believe that he is going to be sent ‘home’

  315. ForeverLost says:

    I think dragonfly makes an important observation, too. I can’t remember why Locke was on flight 815, though. That may give a clue as to whether or not his father was on the flight too.

  316. MKS says:

    Locke was on the flight coming back from his failed walk-about- he wasn’t allowed to gobecause he was in the wheelchair.
    His father might have been hiding there from the law, though. Also, Sawyer was there looking for the real Sawyer, which, as was said, could in fact turn out to be Locke’s dad.

    If he is, in fact, one of the survivors we have not seen yet, would he have been in the tail section with Anna Lucia et.al., or was there maybe a broke-up middle section somewhere?

  317. ForeverLost says:

    Maybe he was held by the Others, with the children and the flight attendant, and the other survivors who were “watching” a few episodes ago.

  318. scottc13 says:

    I think if he was on the plane, he was probably really close to the cockpit. First Class maybe. Otherwise Locke would have seen him getting on the plane.

    Since he was handicapped, wasn’t he one of the first people on the plane?

  319. scottc13 says:

    I wonder if Locke’s mother was also up there with Mr Cooper?

  320. DocH says:

    Some thoughts on the military aspects of LOST:
    1) Locke was referred to as “Colonel” by his lunchtime game buddy at the box company, has shown amazing hunting/surviving/attack-defend/man-of-action skills, and has been seen at his apartment with military medals on the wall behind him.
    2) Sayid is a former interrogation
    officer/soldier. He was seen in the far desert, escaping with western assistance. He has endured many wrathes/captivities.
    3) Kate is the offspring of a capable military man – that is how she got her tracking, land navigation, weapons skills.
    4) Desmond is/was/will be a military recruit (soldier/sailor?), carries a rifle, and sticks to his mission (type the numbers every hour and a half) until appropriately relieved of duty.
    5) Danielle is a great shot, survival hunter, runs a tight house/shack, captured/drugged Sayid, knows the lay of the land.

    Connections here?
    -Who blew-up the compound, hopped the sonic fence and raided Club Other a few weeks back – (warriors) Locke, Sayid, Kate – with Danielle oversight. Desmond was on-duty, guarding Charlie/Claire/Aaron.
    -Sayid is a great source to ‘de-progam’ combatants and the brain-washed… Combatants like Locke & Desmond, the two guys that are having all of the ‘moment-in-time” issues, and someone like Danielle who is brain-locked with her daughter issues, and Kate who is brain-locked in “save the jack, save the world” mode. I’d like to see Sayid get a few bamboo
    splinters under the fingernails of Ben in the near future. Heck – I’d handle that one myself.
    Any other military overtones out there – anyone?

  321. Toeknee says:

    Re: military connections….not sure if these tie into anything in your post, DocH. Also, the following characters are all dead:

    Mikhail claims he was in the Soviet Army, stationed in Afghanistan.

    Kelvin (Desmond’s predecessor) served in the US Army in the Gulf War.

    Ana Lucia obtained a US Army knife off of one of the Others that Eko killed early in Season 2.

  322. Toeknee says:

    Re: the preceding comments about Locke, Eko, Smokey, and “you’re next”….There are some parallels between Locke’s and Eko’s encounters with Smokey.

    The first time Locke saw it, it did no harm to him, and he said what he saw was beautiful. The first time Eko saw it it did no harm to him, and in it he saw images from his life.

    Another time that Locke saw it, it tried to drag him into a hole in the ground, but Jack saved him. The last time Eko saw it, it tested him, and when Eko “failed” the test, it killed him.

    Perhaps Smokey has unfinished business with Locke that Jack interrupted, and that’s why Eko said “You’re next”?

  323. Jules says:

    [quote comment=”46869″]I think you are on to something Dragonfly.

    I think there was talk on one of the podcasts that some other survivors from the crash may be making an appearance.[/quote]

    I thought that was when we saw Cindy (the flight attendant) and the children…?

  324. Jules says:

    And also, someone jog my memory…

    What were they “there to watch”???

  325. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”46896″]And also, someone jog my memory…

    What were they “there to watch”???[/quote]
    It wasn’t clearly stated in the show but I (and many others) think they were there to watch Juilet’s “trial” (for killing Pickett), and possibly her execution.

  326. Pelinester says:

    Hahaha @ DocH re: born-again-Ben 🙂

    I have a theory regarding the ‘watchers’..

    I’m guessing that ‘Cindy and the kids’ were fed some kind of BS regarding why only they could be swept away to this better life (among The Others in their island suburbia). Much like Claire was, when she was abducted, told that they only had enough vaccine for her Baby – The Others probably also told their tail-sectional captives about ‘the sickness’ and explained that they could only help so many due to their shortage of pseudo-vaccine. Then the watching scene becomes Cindy and co. observing the effects of the sickness. Jack sure looks pretty sick at this point and his seemingly violent behaviour would only confirm their fears that he had become sick.. ? yeah that’s it.. 😛

  327. scott says:

    [quote comment=”46893″] Perhaps Sayid’s belief that the perimeter was some sort of sonic fence, which undoubtedly influenced Kate, Locke, and Russeau to believe it could be a sonic fence, manifested itself to reality. Mikhail’s expression certainly did change the minute Sayid said that, perhaps because he knew the fence had just become activated.[/quote]

    I buy that.

  328. Meg says:

    [quote comment=”46954″]This is off topic, but in the flashback when Penny receives a call from those two Portugese men stationed in the arctic, did anyone notice the picture she had of her and Desmond on the nightstand? Desmond had that same picture with him in the hatch, and I doubt copies were made. We were misled to believe she received the call from those Portugese guys right after the hatch imploded, but that call must have happened way before that (since she had the picture of her and Des). In a future episode, I bet we will see Des in bed next to her in that same flashback when she gets the call. It certainly wouldn’t make sense for her to have that picture by her bed after Des became lost and she got married? Perhaps she received that call after the first “incident” in the hatch.[/quote]
    There are two different pictures. When Desmond goes back in time, or whatever was happening, another picture was taken. This is the one that Penny has and Desmond has the original one from before he went back in time, or vice versa.

  329. Meg says:

    What I was saying though, was that there are two different pictures, that look VERY similar. The only difference is the shirt Penny is wearing. In one it’s white, in the other it’s black. They are two different pictures.

  330. DocH says:

    dragonfly wrote:

    Perhaps Sayid’s belief that the perimeter was some sort of sonic fence, which undoubtedly influenced Kate, Locke, and Russeau to believe it could be a sonic fence, manifested itself to reality.
    ————–
    I buy that too. So, if Sayid had it was a lightning fence, Mikhail would have rcvd and electrical bolt/jolt. What if he had said it was a “Tickle Me Elmo” fence? What… death by Muppet? [;^)~ I am be facetious… you made a very valid observation that we all missed.

  331. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46985″]dragonfly wrote:

    Perhaps Sayid’s belief that the perimeter was some sort of sonic fence, which undoubtedly influenced Kate, Locke, and Russeau to believe it could be a sonic fence, manifested itself to reality.
    ————–
    I buy that too. So, if Sayid had it was a lightning fence, Mikhail would have rcvd and electrical bolt/jolt. What if he had said it was a “Tickle Me Elmo” fence? What… death by Muppet? [;^)~ I am be facetious… you made a very valid observation that we all missed.[/quote]

    I’m not ready to buy this one yet. If all you have to do on the island is imagine something, then it appears, why wouldn’t Mikhail imagine a way out of his situation? I think Ben wants Locke to think that’s how it works. He specifically had one of his lacky’s “go get TMFT”, Locke didn’t REALLY summons him with imagination.

  332. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”46970″]What I was saying though, was that there are two different pictures, that look VERY similar. The only difference is the shirt Penny is wearing. In one it’s white, in the other it’s black. They are two different pictures.[/quote]

    I thought that the producers released info about continuity. Didn’t they change the photo in the rerun so that the actress that plays Pen now (wearing black) is in the “correct” photo and the the other photo with the other actress (wearing white)”never happened”.

    I thought we are being lead to believe that the reason there are several photos is because of the “time travel”.

  333. Cunduris says:

    For those who have not seen “Lost Horizon” movie referenced above, it will be soon on TCM – Sunday, April 8,2007 6:00 AM.

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