One of Us

Elizabeth Mitchel as Juliet on Lost

The stakes are getting higher as Jack decides to bring the abandoned Juliet back to the beach camp in tonight’s Juliet centric Lost episode “One of Us”.

The last time we got a Juliet flashback was in “Not in Portland” where we learned how Juliet, a fertility expert who managed to miraculously cure her infertile sister, was recruited to the island by Richard Alpert and Ethan.

Tonight’s new Lost episode promises more answers about Juliet’s past and might reveal more about The Others and the mysterious island.

This is the official description of Lost “One of Us”:

Warning, spoilers!

Jack’s joyous reunion with his fellow survivors is cut short when they realize that accompanying him is one of “The Others,” and Claire is stricken by a mysterious, life-threatening illness, on “Lost,” WEDNESDAY, APRIL 11 (10:00-11:00 p.m., ET), on the ABC Television Network.

Since the title is similar to the episode “One of Them” in which we first met Ben, and Ben turned out to actually be “one of Them”, maybe Juliet really is “one of us”?

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559 Responses to One of Us

  1. Mr Ecko says:

    Juliet, being a fertility doctor, was likely left behind to watch her patient (Kate…who doesn’t know she’s pregnant yet…from Sawyer). This might be supported by Sayid’s obvious mistrust of Juliet, and so far the Iraqi has never been wrong. I guess we’ll see…

  2. Jet Black says:

    Sayid is always right. Great episode.
    Anyone have any idea what Juliet tying the knot is supposed to symbolize?

  3. Dan says:

    I think she is struggling between doing what Ben says and
    siding with the Lost. I believe she does want to leave which is maybe why we saw her beg more than once…

  4. Manolo says:

    This episode gave us alot and then seemed too staged and then it turned out it was…..great episode! Can’t even imagine where this is going, is Locke one of them now? and what did happen to Rousseau?

  5. Austin says:

    i think the knot is tying the bow on a friggin awesome plan (from their perspective, from mine it seems kinda predictable. but then again i am not stuck on the island). I really am happy (i think) that some light was shed on the island. like that women get cancerous (or something like it) when they get pregnant, which seems to be the opposite from what ben says can happen on the island (as far as we are led to believe). not exactly be revelations but still its something, and something is better than nothing when it comes to lost right?!

    on the lines of what may happen, i don’t even want to guess ‘cus no matter how bad and mean these previews can be, cataclysmic doesn’t come from nowhere!

  6. Christine says:

    If they put an implant in Claire when she was pregnant, they must have planned something like this long ago.

  7. Austin says:

    oh, one more thing, if Juliet is now “one of us” then does that mean Locke is “one of them”? is the only difference who wants to stay on the island and who doesn’t? maybe it isn’t all that mysterious after all.

  8. Jet Black says:

    Isn’t the Asian girl pregnant? That’s what they want I bet

  9. john locke says:

    CHRISTINE- they put an implant in clare to make her sick, so juliette can save the day, and everyone would trust her, they didnt plant an baby in her, lol

  10. dragonfly says:

    Did anyone notice how before taking Juliet to the island, that other doctor says how “time really flies” on the island? Does it go forwards, backwards, or back and forth like the clock in Ben’s apartment?

  11. john locke says:

    sorry they said they did it to clare recentely, when they put the medical supplies there. it was all a set up

  12. Bassman says:

    When Ben said,”See you in a week”; sounds like there will be a big confrontation between the others and the beachers. I knew Juliet was still involved. Must be Ben agreed to get her off the Island if she helped one more time. I still think that there is another sub available. The one that Locke blew up is different than the one Juliet came on.
    What do you all think?

  13. Toeknee says:

    I’m gonna have to watch that again

  14. Midgee says:

    Well, it looks like those of you who said she was a plant were right. However, it’s obvious she wants to go home, too. Perhaps she will end up switching teams.

  15. john locke says:

    who knows if its the same sub, but in any case if they can cure someones cancer, then they can do anything! im waiting for one of them to fly, lol

  16. Toeknee says:

    At first I agreed with Bassman – she probably made a deal with Ben that she could leave the island if she infiltrated the Losties. But if she leaves, the Others will not have someone to continue the work she’s been doing. I’ll be interested to see her true motivation for going along with the plan.

    Her statement to Jack – “I’m already on my own’ – maybe that’s a clue. We know she’s “conning” the Losties. Is she also “conning” Ben?

  17. Toeknee says:

    So, the Flame station was indeed an important communication station. I wonder if they have some alternate means of communicating with the outside world. Seems like they’d really be screwed if they didn’t.

  18. Toeknee says:

    Maybe Juliet was sent to be with the Losties so she can treat Sun, to prevent her from dying like all the other pregnant women did.

  19. blinus says:

    Did anybody notice Jacks crazy red starred tattoo that flashed by for a moment near the end? Never saw that crazy thing before. Are they just messing with us?

  20. ebenezer says:

    Maybe they put an implant in Claire so they could stop her from going after her baby after they kidnap it. Just a thought….

  21. Francesco says:

    I may be mistaken, but didn’t Rousseau successfully give birth on the Island and survive? Wasn’t that over 16 years ago. Or did she arrive on the island with a baby?

  22. Connie says:

    You all have some amazing theories. I had forgotten Sun is pregnant.
    This show gets me more lost with each episode. I can’t stop watching.
    And Sayid is always right!

  23. Bondo says:

    So, Were Ben and Rousseau original members of the Dharma Initiative? Then they met on the freaky island campus and make baby?

  24. Ann says:

    Rousseau was already pregnant.

  25. Becky says:

    FANTASTIC EPISODE!!!

    Wonderful! I really enjoyed it and loved the reunion. Many observations and questions…please see my good ol’ list.

    1. I loved the angry/frustrated/tense actions by Kate and Jack and Sayid (the kicking of the firewood, the cutting of the trees by machete). Really great emotion through action as they headed back to the beach.

    2. I found it really weird how Juliette just chugged that drugged OJ! I mean, I know she is dedicated to her research but she went from being “fine” with things to “okay, let me take this and you can do what you will with me.”

    3. So Juliette and Goodwin were lovers…interesting. Ethan, who infiltrated the main Losties, takes her to the island and Goodwin, who infiltrated the Tailies, is her lover. Could this mean anything??

    4. Is there a significance to her sister being named Rachel? Biblical?

    5. Jacob is mentioned again. Who is he???

    6. I find it odd/scary/weird that there is contact with the outside world when Juliette got to see her sister and her nephew! Also, is it just coincidence that the two women Juliette has helped have babies had boys? Aaron and Julian.

    7. With Claire becoming sick because of this implant, they must have wanted to use Claire as leverage and found their opportunity…or planned this infiltration a long time ago.

    8. I’m not surprised Juliette is a plant but I am surprised by how Jack is just completely trusting her.

    9. Will Sun die since all pregnant women die on the island? And why is that? Why would the island heal but prevent new life?

    10. How did the Others know about Sawyer murdering someone a day before the flight? That type of info would not have been anywhere written down. Were they watching them before the flight ever crashed??

    11. Where are Rose and Bernard?

    12. Where is Vincent?

    13. I noticed during Sabine’s surgery, when she died, the doctors were all wearing Dharma scrubs yet the submarine was not Dharma.

    14. Ben said “then we’ll get more mothers”. Where does he plan on getting more women to experiment on with pregnancy?

    15. Who is the father of Rachel’s baby? Juliette had to get the sperm from somewhere.

    Really fantastic episode! Sayid is right, as usual, and that will come out in the end. Jack is too trusting…could he have been turned into an Other?

    Great season to come!

  26. dragonfly says:

    [quote comment=”49521″]Maybe Juliet was sent to be with the Losties so she can treat Sun, to prevent her from dying like all the other pregnant women did.[/quote]

    I think Juliet was lying about all the pregnant women on the island dying. I think the problem that they have with fertility is something else.

  27. lost fan says:

    looks to me like juliette is actually going to con the others (I could be wrong though). they let us in on the secret of her and bens plan way to quickly.

    as far as the knot tying thing, what on earth could that have meant?

  28. john locke says:

    i think her statement saying “im already on my own” just meant that she wasnt on the losties side at all. thats she was there for a plan and shes the only one who knows on the beach. now, i think that for some reason she feels badly for jack and has some sort of love towards him. i think this could somewhat mess up whatever plan ben has. but in the long run im sure this is for juliettes benefit and she will be able to leave the island after she does what ever it is she is supposed to do.
    in the begining of the episode she said the real test would to take a pregnant woman off the island and see what happens, maybe shes there to find out if sun is really pregnant, and then to take her off the island. maybe this wont be a permanent move for juliette but its a chance for her to see her sister and nephew, and to test what happens when she takes a pregnant woman off the island. who knows… what this plan is. but overall good episode and pretty informative.

    when juliette and her sister went to mr alpert rachel said just bring her back to me in 1 peice, mr alperts response, “we will do our best” … not to mention the time flies thing that he said… who knows,. very interesting

  29. Francesco says:

    So there is evidence that not all pregnant women die on the island. Rousseau. What is the implication – those flashbacks (conversations between Juliet and Ben about pregnant women dying) were real.

  30. Becky says:

    [quote comment=”49510″]CHRISTINE- they put an implant in clare to make her sick, so juliette can save the day, and everyone would trust her, they didnt plant an baby in her, lol[/quote]

    She didn’t say that. She is saying the implant was put into Claire while Claire was still pregnant, meaning this was premeditated.

  31. Peadawg says:

    [quote comment=”49516″]Well, it looks like those of you who said she was a plant were right. However, it’s obvious she wants to go home, too. Perhaps she will end up switching teams.[/quote]
    I don’t believe that at all, that Juliet will switch teams. She’s too friggin evil and probably has a lot of resentment built up in her.

  32. Toeknee says:

    How were they able to find out Sawyer killed that guy in Australia? It doesn’t seem like the Australian cops would have figured that out, so if they don’t know, how would the Others know?

  33. Joanna says:

    Juliet said that no other woman has been able to have a baby before Claire–But didn’t Reausseau have Alex on the Island 16 years ago–now Juliet might not know about it because it was before she was on the island—in fact doesn’t she question how Ben has a daughter–Do you think she knows that Alex was kidnapped?

  34. john locke says:

    [quote comment=”49522″]Did anybody notice Jacks crazy red starred tattoo that flashed by for a moment near the end? Never saw that crazy thing before. Are they just messing with us?[/quote]

    they showed us that before, the thai lady gave that to him, remember..

  35. Joanna says:

    In response to the question to Sawyer–the Others had live Satellite feed onto the world –which we saw when Juliette saw her sister and nephew

  36. Becky says:

    [quote comment=”49538″]In response to the question to Sawyer–the Others had live Satellite feed onto the world –which we saw when Juliette saw her sister and nephew[/quote]
    That supports the theory that they had the manifest prior to the flight and were watching everyone before they got onto Flight 815. It also explains why Ben so nonchalantly mentioned there might be a mother on the flight.

  37. Lesley says:

    That was beyond GREAT! Now where are we going??? Don’t ya love the ride? And now I can’t go to bed and I have to watch it again. I don’t think anyone can leave the island once they are there. Ben simply plays everyone leading them to believe they can leave anytime. And he promised Juliet again that she can leave and she BELIEVED him again!!!! So she’s at the beach looking for those women Ben needs and Sun better watch her ass. Did Ben (via Patchy)crash the plane just to get more women? OMG! If Ben was born on the island could women bear children and something changed? Do I recall Ben telling Jack he was born there? Jack is going to have to get past the attraction and start to put some of the stories together, I am guessing that he will eventually. Ben’s box is beginning to look like Pandora’s box! WOW!

  38. Garrett says:

    I don’t know how the writers do it. They must be paid really well and kept locked away on an island somewhere. Hmmmmmmm…..

    A couple other points that no one else has mentioned…

    1. Ben said he was born on and lived his whole life on the island???? How can this be????

    2. What was the funny logo on the tree where Juliette picked up the medical supplies???

  39. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49539″][quote comment=”49538″]In response to the question to Sawyer–the Others had live Satellite feed onto the world –which we saw when Juliette saw her sister and nephew[/quote]
    That supports the theory that they had the manifest prior to the flight and were watching everyone before they got onto Flight 815. It also explains why Ben so nonchalantly mentioned there might be a mother on the flight.[/quote]
    ________________
    So there’s something weird going on. They watched Sawyer kill the guy? They just happen to have hidden cameras planted in the precise spots they need to be so the Others witness things like that? Or, is there some time travel involve? Once they knew who was on the plane they went back in time and followed the people around?

  40. pillarstone says:

    [quote comment=”49539″][quote comment=”49538″]In response to the question to Sawyer–the Others had live Satellite feed onto the world –which we saw when Juliette saw her sister and nephew[/quote]
    That supports the theory that they had the manifest prior to the flight and were watching everyone before they got onto Flight 815. It also explains why Ben so nonchalantly mentioned there might be a mother on the flight.[/quote]

    I don’t thnk they knew who was on the plane vefore the crash – when ben took juliet to Mikhails place and he was watching the news and footage of the crash Ben said “get information on everyone on that plane” suggetsing they didnt’ have prior knowledge of the passengers

  41. Joanna says:

    [quote comment=”49532″]So there is evidence that not all pregnant women die on the island. Rousseau. What is the implication – those flashbacks (conversations between Juliet and Ben about pregnant women dying) were real.[/quote]
    Could Ben be lying to Juliette about all preggies dying–he obviously knows about Reausseau’s baby–he’s claimed her as his own.

  42. pillarstone says:

    “2. What was the funny logo on the tree where Juliette picked up the medical supplies???”

    I think that was just a marker to point out the drop point

  43. Joanna says:

    [quote comment=”49543″][quote comment=”49539″][quote comment=”49538″]In response to the question to Sawyer–the Others had live Satellite feed onto the world –which we saw when Juliette saw her sister and nephew[/quote]
    That supports the theory that they had the manifest prior to the flight and were watching everyone before they got onto Flight 815. It also explains why Ben so nonchalantly mentioned there might be a mother on the flight.[/quote]

    I don’t thnk they knew who was on the plane vefore the crash – when ben took juliet to Mikhails place and he was watching the news and footage of the crash Ben said “get information on everyone on that plane” suggetsing they didnt’ have prior knowledge of the passengers[/quote]

    Don’t forger –there is that whole time element with Lost–almost like the Satellites record and store everyone’s life

  44. dragonfly says:

    [quote comment=”49532″]So there is evidence that not all pregnant women die on the island. Rousseau. What is the implication – those flashbacks (conversations between Juliet and Ben about pregnant women dying) were real.[/quote]

    There’s a distinction between women who are already on the island getting pregnant and women who are pregnant before landing on the island. That’s why Juliet says to Ben “if I could bring someone back here” and he replies that maybe there are more mothers on the flight.

  45. Francesco says:

    Dragonfly, I’m not sure I follow. Each of Rousseau, Sun and Claire were pregnant before reaching the island. As an aside, Sun should have just finished her first trimester – she should be showing a little by now.

  46. Garrett says:

    In regards to the marker. It was a pretty distinguisable mark. There has to be a meaning behind it.

    Also, did anyone see any Dharma markings at the facility in Portland when Juliette got dropped off? I didn’t, just saw the van and building were white?

  47. john locke says:

    i stand corrected about the implant in clare, they said they activated the implaant they put in clare.and she should be symtomatic when juliette arrived. they others are so smart, that since she was the only one they got to kidnap, they did this as a precationary measure just incase a situation like this occured. (where they needed to gain trust)

  48. Lesley says:

    Juliet told Ben the problem happened at conception which implies that women who are pregnant when they arrive may not experience the same problem. Claire’s implant can be activited by something the Others can control… talk about premeditation. These people are ruthless. Another question is whether Juliet’s sister was ever even sick with a relapse. So Ben wants the women fixed so they will not want to leave the island but why are they there in the first place? And who the heck is Jacob???

  49. Jet Black says:

    Does anyone think the others caused the plane to crash? They created the problem between Desmond and that other guy that caused Desmond not to punch in the numbers?

  50. dragonfly says:

    [quote comment=”49548″]Dragonfly, I’m not sure I follow. Each of Rousseau, Sun and Claire were pregnant before reaching the island. As an aside, Sun should have just finished her first trimester – she should be showing a little by now.[/quote]

    Rousseau and Claire were both clearly pregnant before getting to the island. Sun, on the other hand, could have conceived only after reaching the island. I think she is the reason Juliet was planted at the Losties camp. The problem they have with fertility is exclusive to women who concieve while ON the island- which would explain how Rousseau and Claire were both able to have their babies and survive.

  51. Lesley says:

    The logo on the tree was a rune, but will have to look up the meaning.

  52. Peadawg says:

    [quote comment=”49543″][quote comment=”49539″][quote comment=”49538″]In response to I don’t thnk they knew who was on the plane vefore the crash – when ben took juliet to Mikhails place and he was watching the news and footage of the crash Ben said “get information on everyone on that plane” suggetsing they didnt’ have prior knowledge of the passengers[/quote]
    Um, how could Mikhail view footage of the crash, if the plane disappeared and the outside world doesn’t know where it is?

    Also, on another note, how long has Sun been pregnant? She’s not even showing, and that came about I believe last year in Season 2, oder?

  53. lost chicka says:

    at first i was really impressed, then i was thinin “y the heck ain’t sayid kickin the crap outa her,” but as soon as i saw ben & julliete practicng the lines i was thingkin “this is friggin awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!! can’t wait to watchit again!!!”
    couple of things
    – why the hell is jack so stupid? just cause she wants to get off the island doesn’t mean she’s trustworthy
    – what do you think they’re gonna do in a week?
    – do u think they did anything to Julliete while she was out after she gulped down the tranquilliexer?
    – have u ever noticed before how they’ll play the same music for certain people before?
    Jullitee’s is always “downton” & kate’s is always patsy cline.

  54. Francesco says:

    I’m not so sure that Sun could have conceived only after reaching the island. I do take the point about the “problem” arising at the time of conception.

  55. avalanche says:

    rachel was infertile in the bible. to answer an early question

  56. ausiswell says:

    It seems to me that Ben is manipulating Julie, by blackmailing her with the wellbeing of her sister and son. Julie is now his pawn, she will betray Jack and the Lost lot. Jack is either a brilliant leader (anticipating Julie and Ben’s plan) or a fool for trusting her -I personally think he is a fool-. Since Ben is able to communicate with the outside world, and he is so good at manipulating everyone in the island, I honestly think he is the Devil!!! But who am I to know?

  57. dragonfly says:

    [quote comment=”49557″]I’m not so sure that Sun could have conceived only after reaching the island. I do take the point about the “problem” arising at the time of conception.[/quote]

    I think she did though. Cause she only started feeling queasy and nautious a few weeks after they arrived. And also they did show a scene where she and Jin made up and “went into their tent”. Then all of a sudden she asks sawyer for a pregnancy test.

  58. SpinPapi says:

    What’s funny is that the Others (Ben specifically) don’t seem to realize the survivors of Oceanic 815 (great to see it on the news! WOWOWOWOWOW) ain’t stupid. But Ben keeps tryin to con them like they are.

    We think Locke hasn’t defected but he has. We think Juliet hasn’t defected but she has. The whole show is one big mirror twinning Russian doll game. What fun the next five episodes are going to be!!! >=]~

  59. fencepost says:

    [quote comment=”49557″]I’m not so sure that Sun could have conceived only after reaching the island. I do take the point about the “problem” arising at the time of conception.[/quote]

    I thought Sun was pregnant from the man she was having an affair with. Wasn’t her husband infertile?

    Does anyone know if next week is the season finale? I thought I might have heard that on NEXT WEEK ON LOST but I may be wrong.

  60. karuzo says:

    I am surprised no one posted on the scene where they showed juliette right before she was drugged up. There was a logo of an airline on the wall – I cannot remember exact spelling but it was something like ‘herarat airlines’. Herarat is probably reffering to ararat mountain where noah’s ark ended up starting a new life. Could it be the island is the ‘real’ ararat mountain? Someone with the others is up to start a new world which leads somehow to trying and have women pregnant. Also, Jacob and Rachel were a couple in the bible (I think someone has mentioned that earlier). I do remember in a very early episode where the guys find a cave with a priest uniform and a bible in it.

  61. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment=”49559″]It seems to me that Ben is manipulating Julie, by blackmailing her with the wellbeing of her sister and son. Julie is now his pawn, she will betray Jack and the Lost lot. Jack is either a brilliant leader (anticipating Julie and Ben’s plan) or a fool for trusting her -I personally think he is a fool-. Since Ben is able to communicate with the outside world, and he is so good at manipulating everyone in the island, I honestly think he is the Devil!!! But who am I to know?[/quote]

    i think jack’s being an idiot to. he obviously has no reason for trusting her other than her face when the sub blew up, which is a really dumb reason. for all he knows (& us 2) ben has already told her if she finishes this mission (which’ll probably never end) he’ll let her go home. i think the knot at the end symbolized that jack’s gonna die. but then again, julliette almost had me when sawyer & sayid were about to get her when she was getting the medicine talking about how your pasts are different then how u r right now on the island. speaking of which, sayid said he “doesn’t do that anymore” referring to torturing people (again). think it’s for real this time?

  62. pillarstone says:

    [quote comment=”49555″][quote comment=”49543″][quote comment=”49539″][quote comment=”49538″]In response to I don’t thnk they knew who was on the plane vefore the crash – when ben took juliet to Mikhails place and he was watching the news and footage of the crash Ben said “get information on everyone on that plane” suggetsing they didnt’ have prior knowledge of the passengers[/quote]
    Um, how could Mikhail view footage of the crash, if the plane disappeared and the outside world doesn’t know where it is?[/quote]

    Said it wrong! It was just footage of a plane – not 815 crashing

  63. Lesley says:

    Herarat = Her a rat!

  64. dragonfly says:

    [quote comment=”49565″][quote comment=”49555″][quote comment=”49543″][quote comment=”49539″][quote comment=”49538″]In response to I don’t thnk they knew who was on the plane vefore the crash – when ben took juliet to Mikhails place and he was watching the news and footage of the crash Ben said “get information on everyone on that plane” suggetsing they didnt’ have prior knowledge of the passengers[/quote]
    Um, how could Mikhail view footage of the crash, if the plane disappeared and the outside world doesn’t know where it is?[/quote]

    Said it wrong! It was just footage of a plane – not 815 crashing[/quote]

    Maybe because they have access to different times? Time is not linear on this island. Even before taking Juliet to the sub, that doctor said “time really flies” on the island. Even the rex sox game they had taped. Just because they showed it to Jack at around the time is should have happened in the real world doesn’t mean island time is the same.

  65. SpinPapi says:

    [quote comment=”49528″]FANTASTIC EPISODE!!!

    12. Where is Vincent?
    [/quote]
    AGREED!!!

    still digging out Nikki and Paulo…

  66. Jet Black says:

    [quote comment=”49526″]So, Were Ben and Rousseau original members of the Dharma Initiative? Then they met on the freaky island campus and make baby?[/quote]
    Yes, the make-a tha baby

  67. lost chicka says:

    – is the guy who recruited jullitette jacob?

    – the drugs jullite gives claire are to make her better, not worse right?

    – do you think they did anything to jul while she was knocked out?

  68. Francesco says:

    What should we make of the timing of the video footage in the park? Recall the newspaper, which was used as a time stamp, was dated September 22, 2004 (the day of the crash) – did anybody catch the headline? Was that video actually live?

  69. fencepost says:

    Does anyone know if next week is the season finale? I thought I may have heard that on NEXT WEEK ON LOST but I could be wrong.

  70. Francesco says:

    I was under the impression that there were to be five more before the finale.

  71. fencepost says:

    Thanks. 🙂

  72. john locke says:

    next week is not the season finale, its in6 and 7 weeks. i heard there breaking up the season finale, because its the same time as the season finale of american idol. not positive but pretty sure.

  73. riterahg says:

    Like The Who says, “I won’t get fooled again.” Once I saw that cold look return to Juliette’s eyes, I am convinced she is turned bad for good. No longer the innocent recruited scientist, that woman is bad to the bone. She is 100 percent “Other.”

  74. Stephanie says:

    Ok, this is my first post ever, but I have a few comments in regard to some posted above.

    1. The mark on the tree – marking the drop off point for the medical supplies. Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that the same symbol they “marked” Juliette with when Jack supposedly made a deal with Ben to save her from being executed?

    2. We don’t know that Sun wasn’t pregnant before coming to the island. They have never fully resolved whether the baby could be the other guy’s (the one she was having the affair with)

    3. If Rousseau, Claire, and Sun were all pregnant before coming to the island, there is no problem – Juliette said that the problem is in conception.

    4. Assuming that the problem is in conception – Ben said that he was born on the island. He never said that he was conceived there. His mother could have come after she was pregnant. Ben never said he was the first person on the island ever. LOL

    5. I’m not convinced of this, but they made a pretty clear point about Ben not being a liar. He’s a manipulator. So if he doesn’t lie, when he told Locke about the “box” that produces whatever you really want – maybe that is how the plane crashed. What Ben wanted the most was: A – A Spinal Surgeon to heal him and B – More Mothers to experiment on.

    6. Juliette said Claire was the “control” for the experiment. They knew there wouldn’t be a problem with her pregnancy. they just needed to make sure that the syrum they were going to use on their own wouldn’t HURT a pregnancy once it was started.

    7. this is the first real hint that the others are the “good guys” like they’ve been saying they are. The whole “we never wanted to kidnap Claire, we were just giving her the syrum to keep her healthy

    and 8. The theory that once you come to the island, you never leave is incorrect….because we know that Ethan and the dark haired guy left the island to recruit Juliette and to bring her back. And they had obviously been there before – “the last flight is really bumpy, etc.” AND, Ben told the guy in the park to get back to the island after filming Rachel in the park. So obviously people have been trusted to leave. I wonder if they were also born on the island and thus, they have no interest in “going home”.

  75. john locke says:

    oh yea 1 more thing, sayid should be the leader, hes the only smart one! jacks a moron, and im begining to hate him, i mean how is sooooo naive sometimes i mean really.

  76. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment=”49576″]Wasn’t Sun preggers from the guy she was having an affair with and not her husband? I thought her husband was infertile?[/quote]

    apparently the island can make paralyzed people walk, and cure cancer (rose), so i guess becoming fertile is possible. i didn’t see rose or bernard at all in this episode either. did they get fired or something?

  77. Joi says:

    Awesome episode! Once again, the writers totally caught me off guard. Three of us were watching the show and we all gasped when she tied the knot. I think she’s doing this one last thing to FINALLY get back home.

    As a Sayid fan, I’m glad that his suspicions are right, as usual.

    The rest of the season should be a thrill ride!

  78. lost chicka says:

    6. Juliette said Claire was the “control” for the experiment. They knew there wouldn’t be a problem with her pregnancy. they just needed to make sure that the syrum they were going to use on their own wouldn’t HURT a pregnancy once it was started.

    7. this is the first real hint that the others are the “good guys” like they’ve been saying they are. The whole “we never wanted to kidnap Claire, we were just giving her the syrum to keep her healthy

    you can’t say that the others are really good, they’re using Claire, Sun, and maybe Kate as guinea pigs. they were giving the syrum to her so that when Julliette got there should could be superwoman to everyone but hopefully sayid & sawyer. besides that, everyone wants to say that they’re good people.

  79. lost chicka says:

    anybody else think that juliette wanted to get involved with something she knew wasn’t good. she knew that she wouldn’t really be working in portland & that this wasn’t a “real” company. she had the chance to back out when she was signing the papers, when she found out that she wasn’t really gonna be in portland, when she got up to the gate, when she drank the tranquilizer to back out but she never did. she wanted to be involved in something that was wrong.

  80. libby says:

    i want some of that orange juice!

  81. SpinPapi says:

    lost chicka…why would Juliet want to be involved in something wrong? just curious why you think that.

    it seemed more to me that she didn’t feel she had much to lose, and trusted that she’d be back to be with her sister and nephew soon. but she wanted to do big things. make a difference with her talents. who wouldn’t want that?

  82. Joe Mala says:

    Juliet was holding a Stephen King book when she entered the communications center with Ben. Does anyone know which book she was reading, it may provide a clue to the Lost island/phenomena

  83. Stephanie says:

    If any of the women are in danger of dying from pregnancy, it would be Kate. The others had been treating her pretty well – i.e., giving her clothes, food, etc. They wanted her to sleep with Sawyer. that is why Jack, Kate and Sawyer were all taken. Kate would have been enough of an incentive for Jack by herself. But they also wanted to impregnate her – thus, taking Sawyer too. She’s the only one of the main women who, if she is pregnant, would definitely have conceieved on the island.

  84. john locke says:

    why does everyone think Kate is pregnant? the others gased her and juliette kung fooed her a$$. they wouldnt do this, if she was pregnant. i think it has to do with sun, and we wwill then find out that jin is the father (just speculation) i know they said jin was infertile but after comming to the island, he was cured, just like locke and rose (maybe). its just another wonder of the island.

  85. Erin says:

    The “Herarat” Aviation sign could be a clue. My clever husband thinks he’s figured out that the letters are an anagram of sorts, a continuous spiral. If you write the letters in a circle, depending on where you start the cirlce you can spell all these different things, directly going around it…
    Earth Heart : Earth Hearth : Hear The Art : He Art He :
    He Art Heart : He Art Hearth

    He Art Jacob???

  86. cakey says:

    Ooooo…she is so evil!!! (Juliette) That scene with her and Sayid and Sawyer gave me chills! She is like the devil, who the Bible says “stands as an accuser of the saints all day long.” She pulls out the bad things they’ve done (like the devil) to keep them down; to keep them from doing the good (in this case getting to the bottom of everything.)
    Also, maybe when Sun was “kidnapped” by Charlie and Sawyer, the Others put a chip in her, too, when she was out cold.
    Not sure if Jack is really stupid (I tend to think so, and I really hate his “I’m in charge” attitude) or he is actually conning Juliette, onto her game as it were.
    Can’t wait for next week.

  87. jojo says:

    Did anyone notice specifically what was playing on the satellite tv screens when they were showing news of the crash? Is it just my imagination, or did a screen on the left show a picture of Sun???? If so, would there be any significance as to why she was singled out????

  88. Mr Ecko says:

    no takers on my kate is also preggers too theory??? think about it. they had her and sawyer in cages like lab rats; they needed them both in a scheme to convince jack to save ben; they need more test subjects; etc….

    i think kate is knocked up (that glance she gave to sun confirmed it for me, and the fact that she was the first one to know about sun, and the fact that she almost had one with her policeman hubby). plotline-wise, this would be an incredible twist and add complicated layers to the kate/sawyer/jack/juliet rhombus-of-love they got going on. think about it.

  89. lost chicka says:

    – y i think juliette wanted to be involved insomething wrong is because she seems like such a nice person and maybe she wanted to know what it’s like to do something wrong or something like that. idon’t know really.

    – y does jack have such a big need to be the protector, have something to fix, and be the leader all the time?

    – dainelle & desmond both talked about a disease, do the others plant the disease in the people who get it?

    – if the problem is conception, how do women get pregnant?

    – is juliette preggers?

    – y is there such a big emphasis about Stephen King?

    – how many times can these people get shot & live?

    – i think the sign on the tree is the same thing on juliette’s back.

    – the headline on the newspaper was “10 cities in…” i didn’t catch the rest.

    – the tvs all just said that oceanic flight 815 is missing.

  90. Jenn says:

    I not sure if I fully understand Juliet’s explanation of why Claire was ill. Do I have this right?

    Claire’s blood was drawn since her pregnancy was progressing normally and healthily (unlike the Other mothers). She was implanted with the “illness” in order to test the serum that Juliet developed? And this occurred when she was kidnapped by Ethan?

  91. lost chicka says:

    ummmm…i think so. i don’t really think it matters though since she’s obviously a lying, manipulating evil woman.

  92. HBLost says:

    Sayid is the man. He sees right through everyone…

  93. Jenn says:

    Also wanted to add that on last week’s episode comments, someone pointed out that the characters’ names were significant (Jack Shephard = leader, shephard, Sawyer = Tom Sawyer, like a child, pranks, cons, but good at heart, etc).

    Juliet was likened to Romeo’s Juliet, a star-crossed lover. Not sure if any romance will develop between Jack and Juliet, but makes sense because they are from warring sides. In the end Romeo and Juliet rebel against their families. Perhaps we will see a similar ending with Jack and Juliet?

  94. HBLost says:

    Got a question… the song “Downtown” has that played before in other lost episodes? Or am I getting my songs mixed up. I know it was playing in the car when Juliet was dropped off… but has it popped up anywhere else?

  95. so lost says:

    The Stephen King book they were reading was Carrie. Carrie was telekinetic (and raised by a religious fanatic of a mom). I think the significance of the book is that Ben (and others?) is able to draw the things he wants to the island. like the airplane with a surgeon and at least one pregnant woman. The plane didn’t land in a box, but maybe the box is more metaphorical?

    there may be another Stephen King reference as well. He wrote a short story set in the future about a teleportation travelling device where everyone who was transported had to be drugged because while time from one point to the next seemed continuous, if you weren’t drugged you’d go crazy from the mental eternity you spent in transit. Maybe that’d be the “bumpy” ride Ethan referred to if Juliette wasn’t drugged.

  96. john locke says:

    ok the whole box thing, was a metaphor. ben even said to locke, let me explain it in a way youd understand. Locke used to work in a box factory, thats why he used a box to describe what he was talking about.

    i think the whole carrie thing was interesting, significance??? who knows, but im sure we will find out eventually. also interesting about the other stephen king short story that was mentioned above this post. coincidences with stephen king, weird???

    and who else is on jacobs list? rose and possibly bernard? if rose is cured from her cancer,(ithink it was cancer) i would think that this might be a reason to be on the “list” but who else can be? if its good and not bad, who is good thats left, hurley? what did he do that was bad, i dunno ive been trying to figure this out forever, any thoughts?

  97. PauloOfTheDead says:

    Did anyone else think that it was complete horseshit how Sayid and Sawyer tracked Juliet through the jungle determined to get answers only to be “stunned” just because she knew a little dirt on them? Sawyer, at least, should know that the Others have some info on them. The badassery of Season 1 Sawyer would have never allowed Juliet to pass without an explanation, even with Claire’s life on the line.

    Also, what was up with Juliet’s reaction to learning from Hurley that Ethan was buried on the beach? It seemed that she knew something Hurley did not, like maybe “not everything that is buried on the island stays buried?”

    Juliet is lucky that Michael killed Ana-Lucia, or else she would have gotten her ass kicked about 12 times by now for not spilling her guts about the others.

  98. shellbugg says:

    I think Herarat is refering too.. Her a rat… meaning Juliette is a rat…

    Also… I’m so mad that Jack is being so stupid.. I mean, cmon, does he really thing that they have a “connection” just because they were going to leave together. I’m hoping and praying that there is a good bone in Juliette. I want to root for her, maybe later she’ll go all postal on the others and redeem herself. As for now… I think she has her own agenda, although not sure if Ben or Jack fits into that.

  99. john locke says:

    so i was just watching this episode again, and when juliette is looking at the xrays of ben, she says that carl developed them. so this just made me think, when did they turn against carl, and where is he? did he make it back? and if he was helping juliette with some things, and obviously the others, what did he do that made them lock him up? was it just the fact that he was in love with alex, and he (ben) didnt want alex to get involved sexually in fear that she may get knocked up, because he knew she would die if she got pregnant? anyone know anything about carl that i dont? or is this a good theory about carl

  100. john locke says:

    oh yea, and about juliette and the sawyer sayid confrontation, ben probably told her what to say to them to manipulate them. im sure he knew that sayid and sawyer would come at her, and probably kate to, so im sure ben prepared her for this kinda thing, and we all know he is the master manipulator.

  101. Joel I says:

    Over 100 posts this soon! I was really wound after I watched the episode. The cunning of the Others chills me. I really don’t think Juliette is aware of Sun or cares about her pregnancy. I think she is under orders from Ben, and has separated her current self from her former self. She is doing what she must in order to leave, true, and that makes her and Jack united. Jack is acting oddly becaue he, too is focusing on only one goal–get off the island. He had his chance, as did Juliette, but the eleventh hour screw-ups by Kate and Locke (returning to “rescue” him, and blowing up the sub) have erased any concerns he ever had for them and the rest of the group on the beach. Claire’s illness was a diversion, and we see that Jack still is the concerned physician; yet even then he gave in to Juliet and didn’t hold onto control. His concern for these people is fading. His loyalties are switched, and I don’t think he will take care of them unless he discovers that Claire is his half-sister.
    Interesting that Ben cured Rachel’s cancer (with help from Jacob), brought down the airliner and showed Juliet that he was not a lier (also with Jacob’s help), and the mere mention of his name (Jacob”s) stopped Juliet from her rage and despair. She must know Jacob, so when will we see Jacob?

  102. Tara says:

    If you go back to a season 1 episode where Sayid and Rousseau first meet, I am almost positive that she tells him that she came to the island with her husband, her baby, and her research expedition. She didn’t have the baby on the island, but the baby was stolen from her. Everyone in her expedition got “a sickness” including her husband and she implies to Sayid that she had to kill them.

  103. THE LOST KING says:

    wow, wicked episode. Juliet is a plant, a spy in the losties camp, but what the bloody hell is she up to? i thnik no matter hwat she is doing or has done, its all for racheal, her sister, and why does jacob have healing powers

  104. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”49628″]when did they turn against carl, and where is he? did he make it back? and if he was helping juliette with some things, and obviously the others, what did he do that made them lock him up? was it just the fact that he was in love with alex, and he (ben) didnt want alex to get involved sexually in fear that she may get knocked up, because he knew she would die if she got pregnant? anyone know anything about carl that i dont? or is this a good theory about carl[/quote]

    I think you are absolutely correct. Ben doesn’t want Alex and Carl to be together to prevent her from becoming pregnant and possibly dying. Great observation.

    I really enjoyed this episode, one of the best this season.

  105. THE LOST KING says:

    i dont no if this has been comented on already, but didnt danielle have her kid on the island? so why is claire the only one who has ever gave birth on the island???

  106. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”49655″][quote comment=”49628″]when did they turn against carl, and where is he? did he make it back? and if he was helping juliette with some things, and obviously the others, what did he do that made them lock him up? was it just the fact that he was in love with alex, and he (ben) didnt want alex to get involved sexually in fear that she may get knocked up, because he knew she would die if she got pregnant? anyone know anything about carl that i dont? or is this a good theory about carl[/quote]

    I think you are absolutely correct. Ben doesn’t want Alex and Carl to be together to prevent her from becoming pregnant and possibly dying. Great observation.

    I really enjoyed this episode, one of the best this season.[/quote]

    The lost king–>

    your right, one of the top episodes not just of the season, of the whole entire LOST. And danielle came too the island pregnant, because i dont think she would take her baby to mystrerious places where numbers are luring them. and this brings back to a theory of mine i posted in the left behind blog. i dont think alex is rousea’s. i think alex’s mum really did die and danielle got it in her head that alex is hers. and i think it is strange the bosses daughter
    (alex) is the good one? maybe karl has made hr good, maybe ben doesnt want alex turning away from the others becasue of Karl.

  107. THE LOST KING says:

    i think jack’s being an idiot to. he obviously has no reason for trusting her other than her face when the sub blew up, which is a really dumb reason. for all he knows (& us 2) ben has already told her if she finishes this mission (which’ll probably never end) he’ll let her go home. i think the knot at the end symbolized that jack’s gonna die. but then again, julliette almost had me when sawyer & sayid were about to get her when she was getting the medicine talking about how your pasts are different then how u r right now on the island. speaking of which, sayid said he “doesn’t do that anymore” referring to torturing people (again). think it’s for real this time?[/quote]

    talkin about letting her go home, why cant they use the boat they took from sayid?? is it because whoever takes juliet home cant be guided back by the emitter? because its broken?? well i think its strange anyway

  108. Andreas says:

    [quote comment=”49658″]i dont no if this has been comented on already, but didnt danielle have her kid on the island? so why is claire the only one who has ever gave birth on the island???[/quote]

    Claire isn’t the first one to have a baby on the island, but Juliet has no idea that Alex is Rousseau’s daughter and that she was born on the island. She probably doesn’t even know who Rousseau is or that she is on the island.

  109. Fluca says:

    A few things:

    – Do you guys remember that Sawyer was subjected to the whole “implant” treatment? (of course, Ben told him the implant would kill him if his heartbeat reached a peak, but, that was latter disproved. Maybe, Sawyer really has an implant, and Ben lied about what could trigger it…).

    – Sun did not appear on the news about the crash.

    – What’s up with the whole “She’s under my protection” line? It made me want to punch Jack right then and there 🙂

    – If Claire has only gotten sick because of the “implant”, what is the REAL purpose of the shots the others have been giving her? It doesn’t seem that they would waste a whole case of it only to prove Juliet is on the Losties side. Maybe, the shots are for Sun…

    -“see you in a week”: A week on Lost Island time is seven shows… Ben and Juliet will see each other on the last episode of this season… Bad omen, anyone? 🙂

    Cheers

  110. Hammer says:

    I’m not ready to call Jack an idiot. I think he knows that she’s up to something. He knows that she lied to Kate about the cuffs, so he knows she’s up to something.

    I feel more strongly now that Kate will likely be preg., but won’t be able to carry (that would satisfy you guys that think if she’s full blown preg. it would ruin the ratings) I think the mating scene served two purposes. To get another mother to research, and to help manipulate Jack.

    This is obscure, but when Juliet woke up on the sub and looked at the table with two men. One of the men’s profile looked like Michael to me. Can anyone confirm if there are credits for the actors at the table? I also noticed that the same man had a logo on the back of his shirt that looked like the logo on the sub.

    Observation: Jules has no choice but to work for Ben again. He is the only one that can get her off the island. Switching sides to the losties will not get her off the island and she knows that. So she may or may not be a dedicated other, but either way, she knows where her bread gets buttered.

  111. WOW WATCHED THE EP AGAIN, JULIET TELLS GOODWIN THAT KARL DEVELOPED BEN’S X-RAYS

  112. sue says:

    I think Juliette drank the OJ and joined the Others for the chance to do all the research she wanted without worrying about ethical considerations or red tape. I think Sawyer and Sayid backed down from Juliette in the forest because they thought maybe Claire would die if they detained Juliette and they weren’t willing to take that chance. I don’t think they are done with her yet. Jack is an idiot.

  113. Bobbi says:

    A few things we know (i say know-loosely, cuz with Lost, we never really do know)

    *MR. Alpert, not Dr. Alpert (although i still think they said dr on phone with Juliet when confirming her interview in the past episode)

    *We know that they definitely had communication from Mikhail’s post-before Locke blew it up.

    *Also, she saw her sis and the baby “realtime” three years later. So that doesn’t fit with my theory that when they got off island-it would be day after crash, or something.

    *We also saw Ben tell Richard Alpert to come back, AFTER plane crashed-so we know they were still able to get on/off island at least at that point.

    *I am upset that Jack, being a doctor, fell for Juliet’s story (maybe). A serum that Clair had two months before, and is withdrawing from the second they get back to the island.

    *I too also wonder about Rousseau-was she preg when she got to island? If so-did they give her injections like Claire? Juliet said Claire was the first one to give birth on island.

    *I wonder if we are supposed to believe everything Ben says? Have we actually caught him in a lie? I mean he is a slime-but maybe he doesn’t lie? Afterall, he didnt have to lie to Jack and Juliet-he just got Locke to blow up sub.

    *We see that the implant was “activated” on Claire-Juliet gives medicine-who turns off implant? Was it really medicine-or are the Others watching-and turned it off?

  114. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49588″]Juliet was holding a Stephen King book when she entered the communications center with Ben. Does anyone know which book she was reading, it may provide a clue to the Lost island/phenomena[/quote]

    if she was holding a book-it was Carrie,and she had been in the book club meeting-when plane crashed, and Ben took her to communications station-so book was still in hand.

  115. birdwatcher says:

    Great episode!

    There was a post above about the significance of the names and I believe that’s true. But, why is Ben’s last name Linus? Does he carry around a blue blanket and suck his thumb (ha ha)? Though, of all the peanuts characters, Linus is the most sagely…Is there a different famous Linus that anyone knows about? (Or did I mis-hear the last name and it’s really something else?)

  116. THE LOST KING says:

    duz anyone rekon that Karl is a young doctor who was under ethan’s training, becoz juliet tells goodwin Karl printed the X rays out, so maybe he’s under training.

  117. MD says:

    [/quote]So there’s something weird going on. They watched Sawyer kill the guy? They just happen to have hidden cameras planted in the precise spots they need to be so the Others witness things like that? Or, is there some time travel involve? Once they knew who was on the plane they went back in time and followed the people around?[/quote]

    Couldn’t it just be that the police were looking for sawyer, therefore when the others did there background check it showed up.

  118. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49681″]
    *I wonder if we are supposed to believe everything Ben says? Have we actually caught him in a lie? I mean he is a slime-but maybe he doesn’t lie? Afterall, he didnt have to lie to Jack and Juliet-he just got Locke to blow up sub.[/quote]

    I can think of one lie. He told the losties he was Henry Gale. No matter how you slice it, that’s a lie.

  119. adriennez says:

    I thought this was a great episode!! I knew Juliet was evil! The gulping the drugged oj and going into the unknown to do fertility experiments…she’s like an evil scientist lady!

    I am pretty sure that song “Downtown” was playing on an old record player in the hatch that John found (don’t remember the name) when we first met Desmond and saw him get up and ride the stationary bike.

    I also had the thought of whether character’s names have any significance to what part they play in the story…so I looked some up in my Baby Name book. Benjamin means son of the right hand…hello! Jacob means supplanter, which means “one who wrongfully or illegally seizes and holds the place of another”. Jacob in the Bible was the twin son (Esau) of Isaac son of Abraham. Jacob had 12 sons “who became progenites of the 12 tribes of Israel.” In the Bible the twin sons Jacob and Esau were Isaac’s sons and Jacob (the bad twin)tricked his old blind father into giving him the blessing meant for the older twin(Esau)as the oldest son.

    On Lostpedia Troup’s book is called “Bad Twin” and is supposed to have something to do with the twin Widmores…Penny’s uncles? Seems like some kind of connection.

  120. Boots says:

    Juliet told Ben that the she thought the fertility problem was happening at conception. That could mean the Rousseau and Claire were able to carry their babies to term because they had conceived prior to arriving on the island.

  121. Boots says:

    Oh and it also occurred to me that the “virus” that Rousseau described in earlier episodes could have been caused by the same implant that they put in Claire.

  122. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49694″]Juliet told Ben that the she thought the fertility problem was happening at conception. That could mean the Rousseau and Claire were able to carry their babies to term because they had conceived prior to arriving on the island.[/quote]
    This sets us up to find out who is the father of Sun’s baby. If she can’t carry, it’s Jin’s.

  123. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49695″]Oh and it also occurred to me that the “virus” that Rousseau described in earlier episodes could have been caused by the same implant that they put in Claire.[/quote]
    Great theory, if everyone is vomitting blood…shoot ’em.

  124. adriennez says:

    I also read on Wikipedia that the song Downtown was recorded by Petula Clark in 1964 and became a Billboard hit. It also says “The song is featured in the intro of the first episode of the third season of the series Lost.”

    Seems weird that Juliet would like that song so much, unless they don’t have alot of music on the island…maybe the song is some kind of trigger…

  125. dragonfly says:

    [quote comment=”49691″][quote comment=”49681″]
    *I wonder if we are supposed to believe everything Ben says? Have we actually caught him in a lie? I mean he is a slime-but maybe he doesn’t lie? Afterall, he didnt have to lie to Jack and Juliet-he just got Locke to blow up sub.[/quote]

    I can think of one lie. He told the losties he was Henry Gale. No matter how you slice it, that’s a lie.[/quote]

    He also told Locke that nothing happened when he didn’t punch in the numbers in the hatch during “Lockdown”.

  126. Boots says:

    The finale should be great… I think it will be parallel to the previous finales – a showdown between the losties and the others where the losties “think” they have the upperhand but they are out-manipulated by the others.

    The question is, what are the others coming to the beach for? Are they after someone in particular or are they going to try to “purge” them all?

  127. Bizzy says:

    PauloOfthe Dead is absolutely right. I don’t believe these characters now either.

    Jack is now a complete gullible fool. What, is he in love with Juliet? Did he believe he was really going to leave the island in that pool toy sub?

    So Sawyer and Said were bad boys in the real world? Juliet is still a threat. They would have demanded that Juliet stay at Otherville, and live there.

    Kate would have made sure the Juliet would never come to the beach. She knows Juliet lies. And, how does a research scientist become a judo expert and a small arms expert?

    This story line is not very believable.

  128. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49701″]The finale should be great… I think it will be parallel to the previous finales – a showdown between the losties and the others where the losties “think” they have the upperhand but they are out-manipulated by the others.

    The question is, what are the others coming to the beach for? Are they after someone in particular or are they going to try to “purge” them all?[/quote]
    IMO they are coming to the beach for “the mothers”. They need to procreate and currently can not.

  129. Barb says:

    2 things I noticed and not yet discussed:
    1) When Juliet’s sister was being videod didn’t Ben cal the guy watching her “Michael” Couldn’t that be the Losti Michael and now he’s with the others?

    2) Did anyway get that Wizard of Oz feel (Dorothy with the crystal ball in the witch’s castle seeing Auntie Em) when Juliet was viewing her sister at the park?

  130. adriennez says:

    Ben called the guy who was taping Juliet’s sister, Richard…as in Dr. Richard Alpert the guy who recruited her in Miami.

  131. Barb says:

    One more thing about Ben, Rachel and Jacob – Jacob wanted to marry Rachel (Whom he loved) but was tricked to marry he older sister (Leah). He stayed around to marry rachel, after 7 years. Rachel could only conceive twice – Joseph (of the amazing technicolor dreamcoat fame) and Benjamin (she died giving birth to him).

    One question: when was jacob mentioned last night? I don’t remember hearing his name.

  132. adriennez says:

    I just can’t seem to think that Jack is that stupid or easy to manipulate…the same way I can’t think that Kate is really all that bad. Jack knows that Juliet tried to get him to kill Ben…or maybe that was just an act? Everyone keeps saying that Ben is really into manipulating people and Juliet seems to be right there with him.

  133. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment=”49528″]FANTASTIC EPISODE!!!

    2. I found it really weird how Juliette just chugged that drugged OJ! I mean, I know she is dedicated to her research but she went from being “fine” with things to “okay, let me take this and you can do what you will with me.”

    7. With Claire becoming sick because of this implant, they must have wanted to use Claire as leverage and found their opportunity…or planned this infiltration a long time ago.

    8. I’m not surprised Juliette is a plant but I am surprised by how Jack is just completely trusting her.

    10. How did the Others know about Sawyer murdering someone a day before the flight? That type of info would not have been anywhere written down. Were they watching them before the flight ever crashed??

    14. Ben said “then we’ll get more mothers”. Where does he plan on getting more women to experiment on with pregnancy?

    Really fantastic episode! Sayid is right, as usual, and that will come out in the end.[/quote]

    I didn’t find Juliette chugging the OJ at all weird. It made perfect sense. She was burning her…reluctance bridge, so to speak. Diving in.

    As for Claire, a couple of people seem to think that the implant must’ve been there for a while, and that this ‘scheme’ was thus planned from way back when they had Claire. That’s not necessarily the case. We’ve already been shown, if not told, that the treatment she’s been getting before also caused memory loss – since we never heard Claire wake up one day and complain about getting poked by Ethan. This is further demonstrated when she wakes up at the end of the episode and talks to Charlie. She clearly has no memory of the last 12-24 hours or so.

    Jack. Jack. Jack. We’ve seen, I think – what appear to be two ‘betrayals’ – one was last episode with Locke appearing to have sided with the Others, and the other with Jack when we see that his ‘trust’ to Juliette basically hinges on her desire to leave the island. Not quite altruistic.

    Knowing about Sawyer’s actions the night before IS weird.

    Ben. Mothers. Hmm – arranging things so that Losties mate?

    About Sayid being right….yeah, seems like a regular thing 🙂

  134. Boots says:

    [quote comment=”49710″]One more thing about Ben, Rachel and Jacob – Jacob wanted to marry Rachel (Whom he loved) but was tricked to marry he older sister (Leah). He stayed around to marry rachel, after 7 years. Rachel could only conceive twice – Joseph (of the amazing technicolor dreamcoat fame) and Benjamin (she died giving birth to him).

    One question: when was jacob mentioned last night? I don’t remember hearing his name.[/quote]

    Ben told Juliet that Jacob would cure her sister’s cancer. He said something like, “don’t you have faith in Jacob?”

  135. adriennez says:

    I know that they mentioned Jacob last night because I remember my husband who just kind of watches with me, saying “Who the hell is Jacob?” and me telling him about the different references to this Jacob. I just cannot remember the scene…

  136. Toeknee says:

    I don’t see why people are so quick to call Jack an idiot.

    Sure, it’s easy for us to say he should know Juliet is a plant, but we have the benefit of knowing basically everything we know about the show – Juliet’s past, her conversations with Ben, and just the simple fact that this is a TV show that has constantly featured characters lying to/conning/manipulating other characters. At this point, everything everyone says is scrutinized to the nth degree, and discussed on internet message boards. Jack doesn’t have any of those luxuries. Basically he knows that the Others capture people and in some cases hold them agains their will. And he knows Juliet wants to go home, and she was about to get on the sub with him, and he probably did see a devastated look on her face when the sub (allegedly?) blew up.

    Think about it this way, and be honest with yourself about this. As you were watching this episode (and the previous episode), were you always 100% convinced that Juliet was a plant? I wasn’t, and if you weren’t, even with all of the information you have at your disposal (as mentioned in the previous paragraph), how can you expect Jack to know that she was a plant?

  137. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49688″][/quote]So there’s something weird going on. They watched Sawyer kill the guy? They just happen to have hidden cameras planted in the precise spots they need to be so the Others witness things like that? Or, is there some time travel involve? Once they knew who was on the plane they went back in time and followed the people around?[/quote]

    Couldn’t it just be that the police were looking for sawyer, therefore when the others did there background check it showed up.[/quote]
    ________________
    But that’s the point- why would the police be looking for Sawyer? He had no direct connection to the guy he killed. There were no witnesses. The only person who could tie Sawyer to the murder victim is the guy who told Sawyer to kill him, and it’s doubtful he would come forward to the police.

  138. whatif says:

    jack only trusts juliet because he wants to get into her pants so he rationalizes her actions and makes a bigger deal out of her desire to get off the island than necessary. One commenter at the beginning of the long thread likened Herarat to Ararat and all the symbolism along with the mountain where Noah’s arc allegedly crashed – i think it’s a brilliant theory.
    I have no faith in Jack, yet can’t seem to part with the idea that John Locke is a great dude. why is that???
    great ep..

  139. adriennez says:

    Oh yeah, I thought of another reason that I think Juliet is evil…besides the tricking the Losties, the fertility experiments, etc. I hated when she tried to shame Sayid and Sawyer about their past actions even though if she and the Others really knew about their past, she should know the reasons why they had to do what they did…I guess she is a really good actress because I really do not like her character!!

  140. whatif says:

    Also, why did they secure Juliet to her bed? How bumpy can a submarine ride be? (Keep in mind that I’ve never been on one) ~ the whole scene when she woke up was in a way reminiscent of the Fifth Element where each traveller is placed in a cell for a safe journey. Hmm… I don’t know.. I don’t know!!

  141. THE LOST KING says:

    here is what i dont get, the others cannot give birth on the island, so why not move to another island not far away, make a few places to live there, live in the hydra or something and then when they make love (sex) theycan have there kids. and if for whatevere reason they find the island special for there work they can move back there

  142. Toeknee says:

    The name of the pregnant woman who died on the operating table was named Sabine. This caught my attention because I remember from Roman history something about a battle between the Romans and the Sabines. Then I found the following on that noted authority on everything, Wikipedia: “Legend says that Romans abducted Sabine women to populate the newly built town.”

    Yet another example the writers’ tendency to select meaningful names for the characters.

  143. Hammer says:

    I admittedly am stumped on how the others know about Sawyer’s act of murder (and tend to believe that they have had a couple of months of “lost time” to find out), but why are people saying that there was a camera there? The monitors were showing news footage, not recordings of the losties past. What am I missing about this camera?

  144. adriennez says:

    Toeknee wrote:
    ________________
    But that’s the point- why would the police be looking for Sawyer? He had no direct connection to the guy he killed. There were no witnesses. The only person who could tie Sawyer to the murder victim is the guy who told Sawyer to kill him, and it’s doubtful he would come forward to the police.

    By that, do you mean the guy in the bar talking to Sawyer as “the guy who told Sawyer to kill him”? I think that guy was Jack’s father Christian? Is that who you meant?

    That could be how they knew that Sawyer was going to kill someone or did kill someone…from Christian.

  145. sue says:

    I loved the conversation between Hurley and Juliet…

  146. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49725″]Toeknee wrote:
    ________________
    But that’s the point- why would the police be looking for Sawyer? He had no direct connection to the guy he killed. There were no witnesses. The only person who could tie Sawyer to the murder victim is the guy who told Sawyer to kill him, and it’s doubtful he would come forward to the police.

    By that, do you mean the guy in the bar talking to Sawyer as “the guy who told Sawyer to kill him”? I think that guy was Jack’s father Christian? Is that who you meant?

    That could be how they knew that Sawyer was going to kill someone or did kill someone…from Christian.[/quote]
    _______________________
    No it wasn’t Christian tha told Sawyer to kill the guy. It was Gordy or whatever was the name of Sawyer’s partner back in the US. He wanted the guy killed.

  147. colienut says:

    As far as Sun’s pregnancy goes- it’s pretty obvious not a lot of y’all have been preggers! It’s perfectly normal not to show AT ALL with your first pregnancy for 4-4 1/2 months! And she definatly could have been pregnant already when the plane crashed and just not realized it. After all, with her lover falling out of a window, her plot to leave her husband, English lessons, not to mention being in a plane crash and lost on a deserted island- might make a gal lose track of where she is in her cycle, know what I mean?

    Jack is really on my nerves right about now. Someone needs to smack him down and Sawyer and Sayid need to get over their weird fear of Juliette, man up and take charge. Everyone on the island knows they both have a past. So what?

    And I can’t wait for Kate- or anyone- to smack that smug little smile off Julliette’s face. As someone mentioed in an earlier post, I never thought I’d miss Ana lucia, but man the Losties could use her right now!

  148. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49724″]I admittedly am stumped on how the others know about Sawyer’s act of murder (and tend to believe that they have had a couple of months of “lost time” to find out), but why are people saying that there was a camera there? The monitors were showing news footage, not recordings of the losties past. What am I missing about this camera?[/quote]
    I mentioned a camera in my comment #39. This was in response to Joanna’s and Becky’s comments #35 and #36, in which one of them mentioned a satellite, and the other mentioned the Others were watching the Losties BEFORE the flight.

    I don’t see how it’s possible for the Others to know about Sawyer killing the guy unless they saw it themselves. Like I said previously, I don’t see how the cops could solve that murder, so how else could the Others know? I doubt very much there are any cameras – I really mentioned that sarcastically. I do wonder if time-travel plays into this, so the Others went back in time (like Desmond did) and followed the Losties to learn info on them. Just a wild theory.

  149. Uzuri says:

    Ok, i just discovered this blog last week so this is my first time posting. I really enjoyed this epi. Def one of the best this season cuz I was losing faith. I knew Juliet was a plant but I have to agree with whoever said that she has her own agenda. I don’t trust her. She’s changed completely since getting on the island. She tried to have Ben killed I think to take over. She hasn’t mentioned, at least not for us to see (I don’t think), the fact that she wants to go home since the plane crash apparently (she did say she was gonna go home to Jack but we never hear that discussion with Ben). I think she’s sick of Ben manipulating everything and is making her own plans of getting home. And that tying the knot to me signified that the plan of making her a plant was secured cuz she got a spot on the beach which meant the majority of the group trusted her now cuz of the Claire thing.

    I can’t believe Jack! It’s like he’s lost his love or whatever it was for the Losties. He was just gonna leave them! What the hell?? I wondered why Kate didn’t tell him last epi that the communications was down and that he wouldn’t be able to get back like he said he would. He’s all sprung on Juliet and can’t see that she’s playing him. The reason why Juliet said that she’s already on her own was because Jack stopped her from injecting Claire to tell her he can’t protect her if she’s wrong about the serum. That showed that Jack didn’t even completely trust her even tho he kept touting that he did to make others trust her. Funny how now he’s weilding his leadership when I believe he became the reluctant leader of the group in the beginning.

    Sayid’s the man (after Sawyer of course, lol). But yea, that whole scene made me mad. Why did they let her go with that?? I know she struck a chord for each of them but come on!

    And yea, how did they know that Sawyer shot someone right b4 getting on the plane?? I got the conclusion that they didn’t know about the Losties either cuz he told Mikhail to get info on them. I’m lost, but in that good way, that way that made me fall in love with the series cuz I was getting frustrated with that long ass break and then those filler epis. Can’t wait for next week. I dunno how they’re gonna do a fourth season tho….

  150. Hammer says:

    ToeKnee – something I just thought of about them knowing about the murder. Has Sawyer had any encounters with Smokey? Maybe it read his thoughts. There is that old theory that Smokey is related to the others.

  151. THE LOST KING says:

    well is it a possibility that the guy who sawyer killed is an other?? tryin tu get christian or sumat and happened to be near where sawyer did the crime? only thing i can think ov

  152. Toeknee says:

    Another observation…

    A couple times there was a mention of the Losties “eventually needing answers”. How convenient that Juliet will only be there for a week, so presumably she’ll be able to leave before giving out any answers. I think the writers did this as a response to one of the biggest complaints people have – why don’t the characters ask the Others any questions!! So, in this episode, Sayid did that on a few occasions. Now, I’m sure the producers don’t want to reveal any of the big secrets about the Others and the island, at least not yet. So they’ve conveniently provided an excuse for Juliet to avoid answering the questions.

  153. luvzsunshine says:

    I knew she was still a dirty, stinking other!

  154. Bernie says:

    Did anybody notice Jacks crazy red starred tattoo that flashed by for a moment near the end? Never saw that crazy thing before. Are they just messing with us?

    they showed us that before, the thai lady gave that to him, remember..

    That tatoo the Thai lady put on him was in a different place, either his back or on his bicep, not the back of his arm. He had different tatoos in the last episode. His tatoos change and move around. I think the tatoos are either a mind frig to mess with us or have significance, but what might the significance be?

    I also think the songs are triggers of some sort. Downtown seemed to cause Juliet to shake off her meltdown and go back into others mode.

    In the book club before the plane crash Juliet was in a very heated discussion about a book. She seemed angry – it was the Stephen King book and when Ben saw it he said “I guess this means I am out of the book club.” Was the discussion of the Stephen King book Juliet’s questionning of the island and the other’s purpose? Also, if Ben did not approve of the book, why was it on the island for the others to read?

    If the purpose of taking Kate and Sawyer was to impregnate Kate, why didn’t they just let nature take it’s course and also what was the point in having them break rocks all day? That seems capriciously sadistic. Does anyone see a significance. Was it just to break the will of Kate and Sawyer and force them together? Frankly, Kate would have gotten pregnant by either Sawyer or Jack eventually, what was the hurry? Also, with all the other women we see milling about why aren’t any of those women getting pregnant. Why didn’t Juliet get pregnant after her affair on the Island?

    Remember when Michael’s son said “they aren’t what they seem? Do you have any ideas yet what he mean’t. Possibly, they aren’t as bad as they seem or they aren’t actually human?

    Okay – I am throwing things out there.

  155. SPIRALTURTLE says:

    Some opinions I have about questions people have been asking:

    1. Where is Rousseau? I think the most logical answer is the most simple — she’s tracking/spying on the Others and keeping an eye on her daughter.

    2. Symboloty of Juliet tying the knot at the end — Reminded me at the time of tying a noose.

    3. Speaking of Juliet, the book she had was Carrie. Someone already mentioned Carrie’s telekinetic powers, but don’t forget Carrie also destroyed everyone around her (and herself) in a fit of rage over being mistreated/manipulated. Paired with the rope imagery, this doesn’t bode well for the Losties or the Others.

    4. Ben Linus may be referring to Linus of mythology, one of the three sons of Apollo. This Linus was killed as an infant; in revenge, Apollo sent a child-killing plague to Argos, the land the murderer ruled. Or it could refer to Linus Pauling, a Nobel-prizwinning biochemist who worked on the nature of chemical bonds and unorthodox medicine.

    5. I think Carl is hiding out in the jungle somewhere, much like Desmond did for awhile. We’ll see him again soon enough.

  156. adriennez says:

    Toeknee, I was trying to figure out which guy you were referring to…I know that Sawyer was manipulated into killing the wrong man but technically Christian Shepherd did tell Sawyer to kill him…here is a quote from Lostpedia… “While there, Sawyer visited a bar and met with Christian Shephard. Christian told Sawyer about the situation with his son, Jack, and encouraged him to finish the business he had intended to do. ”

    That’s what I was trying to figure out which guy you meant. Sorry I am so bad with the whole quoting posts on here..

  157. Becky says:

    [quote comment=”49686″]Great episode!

    There was a post above about the significance of the names and I believe that’s true. But, why is Ben’s last name Linus? Does he carry around a blue blanket and suck his thumb (ha ha)? Though, of all the peanuts characters, Linus is the most sagely…Is there a different famous Linus that anyone knows about? (Or did I mis-hear the last name and it’s really something else?)[/quote]

    This may be waaaaaay out there, but Linus is the one who pulls the whole “meaning of Christmas” thing together in “A Charlie Brown Christmas.” Since most people watch that show around Christmas, maybe they used Linus’ bringing everyone together to show the true meaning of Christmas as inspiration. Linus recites from the Bible in the movie to show the Peanuts that Christmas is not commercial but spiritual and religious.

  158. Bernie says:

    Also, why did they secure Juliet to her bed? How bumpy can a submarine ride be? (Keep in mind that I’ve never been on one) ~ the whole scene when she woke up was in a way reminiscent of the Fifth Element where each traveller is placed in a cell for a safe journey. Hmm… I don’t know.. I don’t know!!

    And that may be why they can’t easily leave the island to procreate.

  159. Boots says:

    [quote comment=”49747″][quote comment=”49686″]Great episode!

    There was a post above about the significance of the names and I believe that’s true. But, why is Ben’s last name Linus? Does he carry around a blue blanket and suck his thumb (ha ha)? Though, of all the peanuts characters, Linus is the most sagely…Is there a different famous Linus that anyone knows about? (Or did I mis-hear the last name and it’s really something else?)[/quote]

    This may be waaaaaay out there, but Linus is the one who pulls the whole “meaning of Christmas” thing together in “A Charlie Brown Christmas.” Since most people watch that show around Christmas, maybe they used Linus’ bringing everyone together to show the true meaning of Christmas as inspiration. Linus recites from the Bible in the movie to show the Peanuts that Christmas is not commercial but spiritual and religious.[/quote]

    I HIGHLY doubt that.

  160. adriennez says:

    By the way, this is a great blog! It is so interesting to see other people’s ideas and theories!!

    People have commented on why Sun’s pregnancy is not showing yet…she is rather petite and slight anyway but it is totally common for a first pregnancy not to show until even the end of the second trimester, not to mention the somewhat scarce food(aside from the Dharma food drops and fish) on the island. She is not gorging herself on pickles and ice cream…or Slushies and pepperoni pizza and of course ice cream like some us did when we were pregnant. Also, some people actually drop a few pounds before starting to gain baby weight…from the morning sickness.

    It was really creepy how Juliet made a point of checking out Sun like she knows that she is pregnant, although I think only a few people know.

    Does anyone wonder whose xray it was that Dr. Richard Alpert showed Juliet Miami and told her she could study?

  161. adriennez says:

    I meant to write …that Dr. Richard Alpert showed Juliet in Miami…

  162. Bizzy says:

    Why didn’t Hurley mention to Juliet how Ethan nearly killed Charlie by hanging? Why isn’t Charlie suspicious of Juliet because of her association with Ethan?

    I still don’t understand Juliet’s decision to work with Mittelos. She wouldn’t be able to publish any of the work she did there. How would this help her career? A smart person wouldn’t be that gullible.

    If Claire’s problem was an overactive immune system due to the pregnancy, why did Juliet say that if she didn’t give the serum, Claire’s immune system would shut down. Wouldn’t the correct treatment be an immune suppressant? People don’t die because the immune system is shut down. It’s done routinely for people who receive transplants. Why is Jack falling for this con?

    First, Juliet tells Ben it’s a tumor, he says it’s cancer, she says that she didn’t say “cancer,” then she says why do you have cancer when you said you could cure my sister????

    Not all tumors are cancer. Cancer suggests a maligancy which means metastatic disease. But, a tumor on the spine can be serious because of the physical effect it could have on the spinal cord. Juliet’s role doesn’t seem to portray her as intelligent enough to understand these distinctions.

  163. Emily McD says:

    First of all, I’m freakin’ speechless. Was that NOT the greatest episode this season?! I mean, it answered SO many questions! God, it was awesome! A couple of things I’ve been thinking about since last night and a few things I found rummaging around on the internet this morning:

    1. They made sure that we saw that the date was September 22, 2004. Ben even made a point to emphasize that it was live and real time. The tsunami that rocked Thailand happened on December 26, 2004. People are placing bets that the writers of Lost are going to incorporate this somehow in the storyline. Perhaps another “incident?” Maybe some electromagnetic anomaly that causes the tsunami?

    2. Remember when Juliet and Jack are walking behind everyone else on the way back to the beach? She tells Jack that she drugged Kate into the jungle and handcuffed herself to her. Based solely on Jack’s reaction to that news, I think he already knew what she did. He wasn’t surprised or upset at all. So, I think, to some degree, that Jack is in on some of it. I don’t think he knew about Claire, though. Do you think this could be the start of Jack turning? He wants off the island. To what extent would he go to get off? As far as Juliet is obviously willing to go?

    3. If the Others want pregnant women, then doesn’t it seem obvious that they wanted Kate and Sawyer to hook up, maybe going as far as to set up some mind game to encourage them to get it on (i.e. the cages)? Is Kate pregnant? Since we know that Jin is sterile, how did Sun get preggers? Could Ana Lucia have been pregnant?

    4. There’s obviously some sort of religious divinity involved it seems on the island. Ben mentions Jacob to Juliet and speaks to her about him like she should never question her faith in Jacob. Clearly they have the ability to cure cancer. Is this magic? Is this some form of spiritual healing? Do they use cancer as a weapon? It seems like they were able to control Rachel’s cancer (Juliet’s sister). When they needed Juliet to stay on the island, the cancer came back with a promise from Ben that they could heal her. Sound familiar? Isn’t that just what they do to the people back on the beach? They cause a problem in Claire just so Juliet can come and fix it and be the hero. But then why does Ben have cancer? Ben’s cancer seems to defy not only the healing properties of the island but the faith we’re all supposed to have in this Jacob dude.

    5. Why was Juliet drugged to get to the island? Ethan makes a point to tell her that the “last leg of the trip” can be a little rough, yet we are led to believe that the last leg is the part in the submarine. Why would she need to be drugged to ride in a submarine? It’s not like she’s going to remember that they turned left at the starfish or hung a hard right at the coral reef. My point is that something’s missing in this trip. Did they do some sort of time travel? Or is all of this drugging and submarine business just to throw you off the fact that they’re really not as far from home as they may suspect? What if this island is just some big science experiment on an island off the coast of California? I hope not, but I’m just saying…

    6. What if three years in our time is only 6 months on the island? In other words, we know that our survivors have only been on the island for approx. 3 months, but what if it has only been a couple of days in the real world? We know that time works differently on the island than in the real world. I was thinking that maybe the island is some sort of cancer refuge for rich people that want to prolong their life expectancy, but Rachel debunks this hypothesis because she was cured of cancer OFF the island. So, people don’t have to be on the island to be saved. But I watched this episode twice last night, and Ben made a point to tell Juliet when he was showing her the video footage of her sister that this is “REAL TIME,” which means it could be inferred that time is different on the island. “Semantics,” as John Locke would say…

    7. Think back to the fortune teller that insisted Claire get on the plane to California to adopt her baby. Remember he said, “It HAS to be THIS plane.” Is he involved with Mittelos? Somehow he knows the right people involved to tip them off about Claire. Clearly he was paid to coerce her into boarding the plane. Kind of dirty. But clearly Mittelos is seriously funded by someone or something. They have the capability to contact people on the main land, pay for detectives, submarines, doctors’ salaries, etc. Is this a company owned and funded by Penelope’s father? Didn’t it seem like Ben knew that Claire was on the plane? Was the plane crash really an accident? Was it really Desmond’s fault or did the Others select precisely who they wanted and arranged it all to appear like an accident? I mean, imagine for a moment that all of this was on purpose and not at all accidental. Can you imagine how much money and resources it would take to pull off something like this? You would have to have detectives out and about involving themselves in all of these people’s lives way before the accident to get them all on the plane to begin with. Which makes me think that the man who told Sawyer that his father was in Australia could’ve been involved, the lady that was in the hospital with Hurley and gave Desmond the boat could’ve been involved, the fortune teller got Claire on the plane, Christian (himself) got Ana Lucia to go to Australia, as well as Jack to come get him. Was the accident that rendered Claire’s mother caused by someone involved with Mittelos? They killed Juliet’s ex-husband, why wouldn’t they kill Claire’s mother? And let’s not forget that Christian offered Claire another solution for her mother and someone at the hospital all the way in Australia knew to contact him. (Mark my words: Christian has something to do with the big picture, people.) Was Walt’s mother’s sudden and unexpected death really a blood infection or caused to get Michael down to Australia to p/u Walt and board the Oceanic Flight 815 to get home?

    8. Did you remember that Goodwin, Juliet’s island fling, was the “Ethan” sent to the other part of the plane wreckage with Ana Lucia? Eko killed him, remember? Perhaps Juliet has been sent to the island to find out what happened to Ethan and Goodwin. She seemed perplexed when Hurley showed her where Ethan was buried. Her whole goal could be to try to recover the missing Others and keep an eye on the potential new mothers (Sun and now maybe Kate).

  164. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49733″]ToeKnee – something I just thought of about them knowing about the murder. Has Sawyer had any encounters with Smokey? Maybe it read his thoughts. There is that old theory that Smokey is related to the others.[/quote]

    I don’t recall any such encounters but it is a possiblity (we only see a fraction of what happens on the island)

    [quote comment=”49734″]well is it a possibility that the guy who sawyer killed is an other?? tryin tu get christian or sumat and happened to be near where sawyer did the crime? only thing i can think ov[/quote]

    That too is possible, but the murder victim did have some ties to Sawyer’s partner (Gordy?), so I don’t know how much time the guy would have had to work with the Others.

  165. MD says:

    I see tons of comments on how Ben brought down that specific plane to the island but how would it be possible for him to be sure that the surgeon would not die in the crash. Also in a past episode he told Jack that they already had a fine surgeon in Ethan. At the time of the crash why would Ben need a new surgeon if Ethan was already there.

  166. Uzuri says:

    [quote comment=”49699″]I also read on Wikipedia that the song Downtown was recorded by Petula Clark in 1964 and became a Billboard hit. It also says “The song is featured in the intro of the first episode of the third season of the series Lost.”

    Seems weird that Juliet would like that song so much, unless they don’t have alot of music on the island…maybe the song is some kind of trigger…[/quote]

    Someone had mentioned that the song was playing in the car when Juliet was being dropped off. It prob just reminds her of her sister and, now, nephew. That could explain why she cried.

    Also, someone mentioned about Kate looking to Sun with the whole pregnancy discussion with her, Jack, and Juliet. That was only cuz she knew Sun was preggo. That doesn’t convince me that Kate herself is pregnant. She might be, but not cuz of that look.

  167. Emily McD says:

    One more thing…
    Did anyone catch that the birth control test that Sun took to verify she was pregnant was made by the company that Penelope’s father owns?

    Just thought I’d throw that out there…

    What if Penelope’s father is (at least one of) the financial backer(s) for Mittelos? I can hear his one condition would be to ditch Desmond so his daughter could find someone “more suitable” to drink his whiskey.

  168. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49745″]Toeknee, I was trying to figure out which guy you were referring to…I know that Sawyer was manipulated into killing the wrong man but technically Christian Shepherd did tell Sawyer to kill him…here is a quote from Lostpedia… “While there, Sawyer visited a bar and met with Christian Shephard. Christian told Sawyer about the situation with his son, Jack, and encouraged him to finish the business he had intended to do. ”

    That’s what I was trying to figure out which guy you meant. Sorry I am so bad with the whole quoting posts on here..[/quote]
    You’re right – I had forgotten about Christian telling Sawyer that, so I can see why there was some confusion. I was thinking about the guy Hibbs who basically set up Sawyer to kill Frank Duckett (thanks to Lostpedia for those names). Christian may have been able to help the police in their investigation of the murder case, but he died shortly after the encounter with Sawyer, before the murder, right?

  169. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49759″]I see tons of comments on how Ben brought down that specific plane to the island but how would it be possible for him to be sure that the surgeon would not die in the crash. Also in a past episode he told Jack that they already had a fine surgeon in Ethan. At the time of the crash why would Ben need a new surgeon if Ethan was already there.[/quote]

    I think because there are differently specialties. Not every surgeon can do complicated spinal surgery.

  170. Bobbi says:

    I can think of one lie. He told the losties he was Henry Gale. No matter how you slice it, that’s a lie.[/quote]

    Thanks Hammer-I forgot about that~!

  171. froggirl says:

    Well, everyone has said everything I thought (plus some).

    I was just almost starting to believe Juliet at the end. But then Ben said “we’ve activated the implant in Claire.”

    I think Juliet meant when she said she “already was” on her own, (in response to Jack) was that she is a double agent, doing what is best for her. Sometimes that might mean doing what Ben wants, but not always.

    Anyway, good episode.

  172. Bobbi says:

    Maybe it’s not Christian that Jack saw in Season1, way back then. Maybe it’s Christian’s “bad twin” Jacob.-oooh!

    What I want to know is….where did Carl come from? He’s never heard of “brady bunch”-yet he’s young-and couldn’t have been concieved and born on island!

    Someone else mentioned this…where was Desmond when he ran and fleed the hatch? Just lounging in the jungle? How long was that? Could he also be an Other/or recently turned Other?

  173. adriennez says:

    Lostpedia says that the pregnancy test taken by Sun was also the same brand used by Kate at some point and by Juliet’s sister Rachel and was manufactured by Widmore Corporation.

  174. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49767″]
    Someone else mentioned this…where was Desmond when he ran and fleed the hatch? Just lounging in the jungle? How long was that? Could he also be an Other/or recently turned Other?[/quote]
    He went back to his boat, presumably finished fixing it (as Kelvin had been doing), and then attempted to sail away from the island. But for some reason he couldn’t get away from it.

  175. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49755″]
    1. They made sure that we saw that the date was September 22, 2004. Ben even made a point to emphasize that it was live and real time. The tsunami that rocked Thailand happened on December 26, 2004. People are placing bets that the writers of Lost are going to incorporate this somehow in the storyline. Perhaps another “incident?” Maybe some electromagnetic anomaly that causes the tsunami?

    2. Remember when Juliet and Jack are walking behind everyone else on the way back to the beach? She tells Jack that she drugged Kate into the jungle and handcuffed herself to her. Based solely on Jack’s reaction to that news, I think he already knew what she did. He wasn’t surprised or upset at all. So, I think, to some degree, that Jack is in on some of it. I don’t think he knew about Claire, though. Do you think this could be the start of Jack turning? He wants off the island. To what extent would he go to get off? As far as Juliet is obviously willing to go
    quote]

    I totally said that about the tsunami a while back too! At one point in an interview the writers said something was coming to give us some sort of “time” relevance-and I instantly thought of the tsunami. ALSO, it might help peg where the heck the island is.

    Also, I wondered why Jack didn’t even take a second thought to Juliet saying she cuffed Kate in jungle. Which brings us back to why Jack was still gassed the next day-unconscious on floor. Kate woke up in jungle-running around like crazy-even slept that night in jungle-and Jack was still out the next day? Farfetched-weird-I really hope the writers aren’t making Jack on the Other’s side now…

  176. Bobbi says:

    sorry for screwing up the quote above, still figuring it out.

    Thanks toeknee-I forgot he tried to sail away.

  177. MD says:

    This didn’t come from last nights episode but has anyone ever wondered how locke could walk right away. I don’t mean the mysterious powers of the Island but from personal experience people who are confined to a wheelchair lose muscle mass in their legs because they are not supporting the weight of their body anymore. How long was he in a wheelchair before the crash and how exactly was he able to support himself if he had not walked in sometime?

  178. cakey says:

    [quote comment=”49615″]The Stephen King book they were reading was Carrie. Carrie was telekinetic (and raised by a religious fanatic of a mom). I think the significance of the book is that Ben (and others?) is able to draw the things he wants to the island. like the airplane with a surgeon and at least one pregnant woman. The plane didn’t land in a box, but maybe the box is more metaphorical?

    there may be another Stephen King reference as well. He wrote a short story set in the future about a teleportation travelling device where everyone who was transported had to be drugged because while time from one point to the next seemed continuous, if you weren’t drugged you’d go crazy from the mental eternity you spent in transit. Maybe that’d be the “bumpy” ride Ethan referred to if Juliette wasn’t drugged.[/quote]
    [quote comment=”49615″]The Stephen King book they were reading was Carrie. Carrie was telekinetic (and raised by a religious fanatic of a mom). I think the significance of the book is that Ben (and others?) is able to draw the things he wants to the island. like the airplane with a surgeon and at least one pregnant woman. The plane didn’t land in a box, but maybe the box is more metaphorical?

    there may be another Stephen King reference as well. He wrote a short story set in the future about a teleportation travelling device where everyone who was transported had to be drugged because while time from one point to the next seemed continuous, if you weren’t drugged you’d go crazy from the mental eternity you spent in transit. Maybe that’d be the “bumpy” ride Ethan referred to if Juliette wasn’t drugged.[/quote]
    [quote comment=”49615″]The Stephen King book they were reading was Carrie. Carrie was telekinetic (and raised by a religious fanatic of a mom). I think the significance of the book is that Ben (and others?) is able to draw the things he wants to the island. like the airplane with a surgeon and at least one pregnant woman. The plane didn’t land in a box, but maybe the box is more metaphorical?

    there may be another Stephen King reference as well. He wrote a short story set in the future about a teleportation travelling device where everyone who was transported had to be drugged because while time from one point to the next seemed continuous, if you weren’t drugged you’d go crazy from the mental eternity you spent in transit. Maybe that’d be the “bumpy” ride Ethan referred to if Juliette wasn’t drugged.[/quote]
    [quote comment=”49615″]The Stephen King book they were reading was Carrie. Carrie was telekinetic (and raised by a religious fanatic of a mom). I think the significance of the book is that Ben (and others?) is able to draw the things he wants to the island. like the airplane with a surgeon and at least one pregnant woman. The plane didn’t land in a box, but maybe the box is more metaphorical?

    there may be another Stephen King reference as well. He wrote a short story set in the future about a teleportation travelling device where everyone who was transported had to be drugged because while time from one point to the next seemed continuous, if you weren’t drugged you’d go crazy from the mental eternity you spent in transit. Maybe that’d be the “bumpy” ride Ethan referred to if Juliette wasn’t drugged.[/quote]

    Cool! I am a Stephen King fan, read all his short stories & books…I love that story – it does connect with the idea of time travel on the island. The last thing the kid in that story says, chillingly, is “it’s longer than you think, Dad, longer than you think!!!!”

  179. adriennez says:

    It is really weird how the Others know everything about the Losties…I think at one point Juliet told Jack(back on the other island)that they had a copy of his father’s autopsy report…but still, how would they know that Sawyer had killed someone the night before getting on the plane…how can they have the resources to know what everyone did prior to the crash…unless it has something to do with time travel or something more mystical?!

  180. luckystuff says:

    1. Of course Kate is knocked up. The cutaway scene to a concerned Kate when Juliet mentioned the illness supports this.

    2. Sayid has a good track record. So I tend to trust his instincts. But Sawyer and Sayid let Juliet go because it was a chance to save Claire; I don’t think they’re sold on her fidelity.

    3. By now, Juliet should know better than to trust Ben for any deal off the island. She just has to be in plain cahoots with him and believe in their cause.

    4. Where are the “eskimos” ?????? And who were the eskimos calling at the end of last season? All that needs to be resolved. There’s way too many open questions, and the whole series just keeps spinning off new ones.

  181. Tina says:

    A few things:

    1. Karl returned to the main island with Kate & Sawyer and then disappeared into the Jungle. My guess, he’s trying to get back to Alex.

    2. I think the brainwashing technique we observed happening to Karl is something that ALL of the Others go through periodically to reaffirm their committment to the “cause”. I bet Juliet experienced it at some point in her stay on the island. SUch brainwashing could account for the Other’s ability to be so manipulative and cold. One of the results of the brainwashing could be a resistance to questioning (ex.: Ben didn’t break for Sayid, perhaps Juliet won’t either).

    3. Juliet is not a sympathetic character. When she downed the OJ, she in effect gave up the life she had outside of the island. She is cold, manipulative and dangerous (i’ve said it from the getgo). She does still care for Rachel and Julian, but she is taking a rather Machivellian approach to getting back to them. Her actions on the island are those of a hardened, cold heart. She freaking shot Pickett point blank in cold blood for Pete’s sake!

    4. Perhaps “Jacob” and Penny’s father are brothers? Like the biblical Jacob and Esau, perhaps one has usurped the rights and blessings of the other. Ben could be Jacob’s son, from the mother “rachel” who died (from whatever thing causes pregnant mother’s deaths on the island) that spurred the investigation into the effects of pregnancy on women on the island.

    5. We do NOT know who the father of Sun’s baby is yet. It could be Jin or her lover. I tend to think Jin is the baby-daddy.

    6. Though Kate and Sawyer did the nasty, we don’t know that any pregnancy resulted or cold result from it. Sawyer did have the stash of goodies in his tent, which if I remember correctly, included condoms. If any guy on the island has a stash of gloves, its Sawyer. I don’t know that Kate’s character is designed to carry a pregnancy storyline, she’s more the sex symbol girl on the series, but who knows for sure.

    7. Jack has been acting strangely, however I don’t know that I’d act differently considering the circumstances- crazy plane crash, island full of crazy people, smoke monster, dead bodies, the girl I sort of like sleeps with my major rival, kidnappings, scientific experiments..etc. everyone is under ALOT of stress and Jack’s reaction to it cannot automatically be declared idiocy. His trust for Juliet however IS stupid, but he is sort of desperate.

    8. Tranqs before travelling to the island supports the idea that the island exists in some kind of time warp or trap that cause extreme discomfort (madness maybe) to those who travel there without some kind of aid (the crash got the folks there with oxygen masks on, perhaps calming them?).

    I’m sure I’ll think of other things later.

  182. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49755″]
    5. Why was Juliet drugged to get to the island? Ethan makes a point to tell her that the “last leg of the trip” can be a little rough, yet we are led to believe that the last leg is the part in the submarine. Why would she need to be drugged to ride in a submarine? It’s not like she’s going to remember that they turned left at the starfish or hung a hard right at the coral reef. My point is that something’s missing in this trip. Did they do some sort of time travel? Or is all of this drugging and submarine business just to throw you off the fact that they’re really not as far from home as they may suspect? What if this island is just some big science experiment on an island off the coast of California? I hope not, but I’m just saying…
    [/quote]

    I think the drugging was simply so Juliet could not see where and how they get to the island. I’d imagine there’s some unconventional aspects of getting to the island. Maybe even time travel may be involved. Remember that nobody else seems to be able to find the island. So, drugging her accomplishes a few things:
    1. it keeps her from changing her mind or doing something drastic during the trip, once she realizes this is not something she wants to be involved with;
    2. It prevents her from knowing how to get to the island, which would prevent her from telling other people on the mainland in the event she were ever actually allowed to leave it,
    3. If she were to know how to get to the island, she might be able to figure how to get off of it, and she could start a little mutiny among those who want to leave. Not letting her know that info keeps her (and all of the Others) at the mercy of Ben.

  183. THE LOST KING says:

    somebody mentioned this before, i like the idea Christian has a twin, and his twin is called Jacob, and Jacob n christian fell out and Jacob wants nothing to do with jack or his dad, (the reason Jacob acn cure cancer is because he is a better doctor than christian). So if Jacob knew Jack was took by the others he would be unhappy, because he hates jack, so once he found out, hetold Ben to send Jack home!

    whatdya think

  184. Zeke says:

    A few thoughts from a first time poster:

    1. The song Downtown was just a replay of the first time we were introduced to Juliette

    2. We still haven’t *seen* anyone leave the island and return, or go to the island and leave. Although Ethan and Richard both imply that they have, chronologically we’ve never seen Richard on the island until recently (post recruitment, post live feed of Rachel). Likewise, once Ethan came with Juliette, we’ve never seen him off the island again. Granted, it makes you wonder who actually drives the sub, or is it a one-way fleet of subs?
    3. Did you get the sense from Ben/Mikhail in the Flame that they’ve been through this drill before? There was no “a plane crashed, what do we do now?” conversation, it was almost a procedure. And I doubt Henry Gale or the Cessna would get the same type of media coverage as 815 dissappearing.

    Great episode and discussion, can’t wait for next week.

  185. Emily McD says:

    Widmore is Penelope’s last name and the name of her father’s company and also on the pregnancy tests. I’m telling you that’s no coincidence.

    Also, does anyone else find it sort of convenient that Paulo spoke Portuguese and the scientists searching for anomalies in Antarctica also spoke Portuguese? When they called Penelope and said “I think we found him,” did they HAVE to be referring to Desmond? Of course I want this whole thing to be about a love story through time and space, but there’s that diamond connection, too. Paulo was looking for diamonds and the lady in the diamond shop told Desmond he wasn’t supposed to propose to Penelope. I know it’s a stretch, but I’m thinking Penelope’s dad and Jack’s dad are going to figure prominently in the resolution of all of this stuff. Can I get a witness? (lol)

  186. Ken says:

    The Submarine is a fake set up by Ben. It sets up false hope to come and go. Juliet was drugged to believe she got to the Island by the submarine. She was really killed and her history altered to re-appear again as a chile but with a history now created by Ben. Ben has found a way to alter history over and over and over again until it fits his needs. (Jack crashes to operate on his spine, Locke’s father never pushed Locke from the window so now he can walk, etc) Lost seems to be following the foot steps of the movie “The Butterfly Effect” where slight changes in history of one person effects the larger history of others”.

    Ben is the son of Juliet’s sister. He found a base of people to work with to alter his own life by impregnating women and setting up a new destiny. He was born on the Island by the works of the Dharma. For some reason they all left or died. He survived but learned from their work how to alter time which he had to do to cure the cancer he will have in the future just like his mother. For some reason he can’t leave the Island. So, he brings people to him.

    The woman are all getting pregnant. And, they all have somehow touched each other’s lives before the plane crashed. These are the planned pregnancies of Ben to benefit his own life.

    The series will end with a number of infants and young children with the same names of all the Lost characters at their homes around the world. Little will they know their lives have been planned ahead by Ben and continually forced over their life time to the plane by Ben’s men who work for the Medical Company.

  187. cakey says:

    [quote comment=”49744″]Some opinions I have about questions people have been asking:

    1. Where is Rousseau? I think the most logical answer is the most simple — she’s tracking/spying on the Others and keeping an eye on her daughter.

    2. Symboloty of Juliet tying the knot at the end — Reminded me at the time of tying a noose.

    3. Speaking of Juliet, the book she had was Carrie. Someone already mentioned Carrie’s telekinetic powers, but don’t forget Carrie also destroyed everyone around her (and herself) in a fit of rage over being mistreated/manipulated. Paired with the rope imagery, this doesn’t bode well for the Losties or the Others.

    4. Ben Linus may be referring to Linus of mythology, one of the three sons of Apollo. This Linus was killed as an infant; in revenge, Apollo sent a child-killing plague to Argos, the land the murderer ruled.

    Or it could refer to Linus Pauling, a Nobel-prizwinning biochemist who worked on the nature of chemical bonds and unorthodox medicine.

    5. I think Carl is hiding out in the jungle somewhere, much like Desmond did for awhile. We’ll see him again soon enough.[/quote]

    That is an interesting connection (the ancient Linus/Appollo one.) Does anyone remember when Eko was in the cave with the bear there was a child’s Tonka truck in it? Also a lot of (i think) human bones…I’ve wondered if there were children on the island, then something happened to them. And now they aren’t able to have their own.
    There is a real syndrome that happens to pregnant women (which I have) called the Rh factor. It’s when your have a certain blood type, in my case O-, and your mate’s is different. The baby may then have the blood type of your mate’s, and your body reacts to it as a foreign substance and attacks and kills it (the baby, not the mom). And it gets started at conception. You then retain the antibodies for the next time you get pregnant – to make sure you will kill any future fetuses. It can be totally controlled in the real world, but maybe it is a similar situation that has spun totally out of control on the island, now killing mom and baby. BTW this is inherited, since blood type is inherited. Maybe the Others have been inbreeding??

  188. Emily McD says:

    [quote comment=”49783″]A few thoughts from a first time poster:

    1. The song Downtown was just a replay of the first time we were introduced to Juliette

    2. We still haven’t *seen* anyone leave the island and return, or go to the island and leave. Although Ethan and Richard both imply that they have, chronologically we’ve never seen Richard on the island until recently (post recruitment, post live feed of Rachel). Likewise, once Ethan came with Juliette, we’ve never seen him off the island again. Granted, it makes you wonder who actually drives the sub, or is it a one-way fleet of subs?
    3. Did you get the sense from Ben/Mikhail in the Flame that they’ve been through this drill before? There was no “a plane crashed, what do we do now?” conversation, it was almost a procedure. And I doubt Henry Gale or the Cessna would get the same type of media coverage as 815 dissappearing.

    Great episode and discussion, can’t wait for next week.[/quote]

    But haven’t we seen Ethan both on and off the island? He was at the morgue when Juliet’s ex-husband died, he was coming out of Rachel’s apartment complex, and we’ve seen him a ton of times on the island.

  189. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49779″]1. Of course Kate is knocked up. The cutaway scene to a concerned Kate when Juliet mentioned the illness supports this.
    [/quote]
    Not necessarily – I took it that she was concerned about Sun – Kate knows Sun is pregnant. Kate & Sawyer did their thing less than 2 weeks ago island time. I don’t know if Kate would know she’s pregnant yet.

    [quote comment=”49779″]
    4. Where are the “eskimos” ?????? And who were the eskimos calling at the end of last season? All that needs to be resolved. There’s way too many open questions, and the whole series just keeps spinning off new ones.[/quote]
    The “eskimos” were calling Penny, Desmond’s ex-girlfriend, who apparently has been looking for Desmond and hired the “eskimos” to help. Supposedly this will be resolved, but my guess is the resolution may not come until the end of the final season.

    [quote comment=”49779″]
    There’s way too many open questions, and the whole series just keeps spinning off new ones.[/quote]
    I know – isn’t it awesome!!!?

  190. Emily McD says:

    [quote comment=”49786″]The Submarine is a fake set up by Ben. It sets up false hope to come and go. Juliet was drugged to believe she got to the Island by the submarine. She was really killed and her history altered to re-appear again as a chile but with a history now created by Ben. Ben has found a way to alter history over and over and over again until it fits his needs. (Jack crashes to operate on his spine, Locke’s father never pushed Locke from the window so now he can walk, etc) Lost seems to be following the foot steps of the movie “The Butterfly Effect” where slight changes in history of one person effects the larger history of others”.

    Ben is the son of Juliet’s sister. He found a base of people to work with to alter his own life by impregnating women and setting up a new destiny. He was born on the Island by the works of the Dharma. For some reason they all left or died. He survived but learned from their work how to alter time which he had to do to cure the cancer he will have in the future just like his mother. For some reason he can’t leave the Island. So, he brings people to him.

    The woman are all getting pregnant. And, they all have somehow touched each other’s lives before the plane crashed. These are the planned pregnancies of Ben to benefit his own life.

    The series will end with a number of infants and young children with the same names of all the Lost characters at their homes around the world. Little will they know their lives have been planned ahead by Ben and continually forced over their life time to the plane by Ben’s men who work for the Medical Company.[/quote]

    WOW! I don’t know how right you are, but it’s definitely something totally different to think about! Keep the torch lit, “brutha.” This sort of follows the pendulum theory mentioned a few weeks back, but I don’t know if I buy that Ben would plant his Dharma babies throughout the world (Kate, Sayid, Claire, Eko, etc.). Although if that were true, it would kinda touch on the whole Garden of Eden idea and the island being like the creator of time. I don’t know, but I think I just blew a mental gasket.

  191. bdg1116 says:

    ANYONE NOTICE THAT HERARAT AVIATION could be an anagram for Earhart as in Amelia Earhart

  192. Tricia says:

    According to http://www.losteastereggs.blogspot.com/, the mark on the tree and the brand juliet has on her back are the same. Also, someone posted this about the symbol:

    Ummo or Ummoism describes a series of decades-long claims that aliens from the planet Ummo were communicating with persons on the earth.

    Most Ummo information was in the form of many detailed documents and letters sent to various esoteric groups or UFO enthusiasts. The Ummo affair called Ummoism was subject to much mainstream attention in France and Spain during the 1960’s and 1970’s, and a degree of interest remains regarding the subject.

    General consensus is that the Ummoism was an elaborate hoax. The culprit (or culprits) is unknown, but a José Luis Jordán Peña has claimed responsibility for instigating the Ummoism.

    However, some contend there may be at least a measure of truth in the matter, and there are a few small groups of devotees, such as “a strange Bolivian cult called the Daughters of Ummo”. Another group, which claims a more scientific approach to the question of whether Ummo is a hoax or not, has set up a website in which one can find the materials on which is based the Ummo story, and some analysis of this documentation (ummo-sciences.org). One person of this group claims to have understood the fundamentals of the language of UMMO, which is present in the texts in the form of what we would call words or sometimes expressions . He contends that the structure of their language is inherently different from the structure of any language on Earth, and has published a book on the subject.

    In the letters, the Ummites relate their story and claim to have landed on Earth in March 1950 in the southern French département of Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, in the area of Digne-les-Bains. Reports mention three spacecraft with some explorers coming from their planet. They describe how they found our planet, their arrival on Earth, analysis of our habits, their language, and scientific descriptions of their activities.

    The Ummites write that they first visited Earth in 1950 as a small group of scientist-explorers. Their goals were the study of our biosphere, atmosphere and culture. They explain how they discovered the Earth by chance, thanks to a Morse radio message sent by a Norwegian ship 15 years prior to their landing, and also describe scientific data from their planetary system, including its gravity, orbit, revolution period, sizes, and information about their star.

    The Ummites were amazed, seeing our multi-cultural society, and also the social disorder so prevalent on Earth. They explain their civilization is older than ours, with appropriately advanced technology, and they will not disturb our social evolution.

    Regardless of any ultimate explanation, the Ummoism is one of the most intriguing (and most detailed) UFO-related events in recent decades.
    More information here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummo

  193. adriennez says:

    bdg116 wrote:

    ANYONE NOTICE THAT HERARAT AVIATION could be an anagram for Earhart as in Amelia Earhart.

    That is awesome!! Great catch!!

    Emily, I totally forgot that we saw Ethan near Rachel’s apartment in Miami…she let Juliet experiment on her and was encouraging in her going away…maybe Rachel is connected to the others?

  194. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49795″]ANYONE NOTICE THAT HERARAT AVIATION could be an anagram for Earhart as in Amelia Earhart[/quote]

    AH! I feel like my brain is constantly being mindscrewed bewtween this show and these posts! Awesome realization!

  195. Fluca says:

    [quote comment=”49786″]The Submarine is a fake set up by Ben. It sets up false hope to come and go. Juliet was drugged to believe she got to the Island by the submarine.quote]

    I think this you hit the mark there.
    On a related note, I find it pretty strange that they have managed to dock a submarine only a few feet from the beach… how small is this sub, and how usefull such a small sub would be?
    Cheers

  196. Fluca says:

    Damn, sorry for that… Is there a FAQ on how to properly use the quotation system?

    I’ll try again, only with my opinion:

    I think this you hit the mark there.
    On a related note, I find it pretty strange that they have managed to dock a submarine only a few feet from the beach… how small is this sub, and how usefull such a small sub would be?
    Cheers

  197. Zeke says:

    [quote comment=”49789″][quote comment=”49783″]A few thoughts from a first time poster:

    1. The song Downtown was just a replay of the first time we were introduced to Juliette

    2. We still haven’t *seen* anyone leave the island and return, or go to the island and leave. Although Ethan and Richard both imply that they have, chronologically we’ve never seen Richard on the island until recently (post recruitment, post live feed of Rachel). Likewise, once Ethan came with Juliette, we’ve never seen him off the island again. Granted, it makes you wonder who actually drives the sub, or is it a one-way fleet of subs?
    3. Did you get the sense from Ben/Mikhail in the Flame that they’ve been through this drill before? There was no “a plane crashed, what do we do now?” conversation, it was almost a procedure. And I doubt Henry Gale or the Cessna would get the same type of media coverage as 815 dissappearing.

    Great episode and discussion, can’t wait for next week.[/quote]

    But haven’t we seen Ethan both on and off the island? He was at the morgue when Juliet’s ex-husband died, he was coming out of Rachel’s apartment complex, and we’ve seen him a ton of times on the island.[/quote]

    You’re right, but my point is just that those events all happened before we ever saw him on the island. He was with Juliet on the sub, so could that’s the first time we can confirm him there. And we never saw him leave. The idea is that it’s very possible that people cannot come and go. And also very possible I’m completely wrong!

  198. Tina says:

    As far as how the Others know what happened when Sawyer killed Duckett:

    My theory is some kind of real time Google earth styled satellite transmissions that involve GPS-maybe.

  199. Hurley's Dad says:

    Thoughts on earlier posts:

    Sun’s baby – we have ZERO evidence they know. Most of Ben’s information comes from first hand knowledge or off island info gathered from Mikhail. It’s too early for them to know she’s preggers (per lostpedia, island time she found out on day 60, it is now day 82).

    I’ll say it again…Kate is not now and will not be pregnant. The Others did it so Jack would see them together.

    Juliet is not evil, she’s calculating. Even when she killed someone (Pickett) it was to help Sawyer/Kate leave Alcatraz.

    Ben and the others were surprised by the plane coming down. If they really knew it was going to happen, he wouldn’t have had to give directions to Goodwin and Ethan. They would have just gone. The Others didn’t “bring down” the plane.

    The only logical conclusion I can come up with for the Others knowledge of Sawyers “murder incident” is that there is a connection between Hibbs and Cooper.

  200. Hurley's Dad says:

    My theories for you to chew up and spit out 🙂 :

    Rachel’s son was immaculately conceived…..Christianity references anyone?

    Why did no Lostie ask “Where’s Locke?”

    There are two reasons Juliet wants off the island. First is to obviously see her sister. Second is that she is about 2 months preggers with Goodwin’s love child. Otherwise there was little reason to show them in bed together.

    The 2004 Tsunami hit the south Pacific on Dec 26, 2004. That would be day 95 on the island for the losties. As mentioned above, we are currently on around day 82. If the writers wanted to make this work, they could.

  201. Bryan says:

    re: How did the Others know about Sawyer murdering someone a day before the flight? That type of info would not have been anywhere written down. Were they watching them before the flight ever crashed??

    How is this even possible? When the plane crashed, Ben specifically said to the others, “you were on the flight, I want names and lists”. That doesn’t really explain how they have so much additional information. Unless, after they gathered all the information, they did additional research through the russian guy at the communications facility.

    Either way, episode was the BOMB! Enjoying everyone’s posts – It appears we’re all very “lost”.

  202. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49816″]My theories for you to chew up and spit out 🙂 :

    Rachel’s son was immaculately conceived…..Christianity references anyone?

    Why did no Lostie ask “Where’s Locke?”

    There are two reasons Juliet wants off the island. First is to obviously see her sister. Second is that she is about 2 months preggers with Goodwin’s love child. Otherwise there was little reason to show them in bed together.

    The 2004 Tsunami hit the south Pacific on Dec 26, 2004. That would be day 95 on the island for the losties. As mentioned above, we are currently on around day 82. If the writers wanted to make this work, they could.[/quote]

    Maybe Juliet is pregnant with Goodwin’s lovechild and she’s afraid she might die…

    I like the tsunami idea too.

    Well done.

  203. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49816″]
    Why did no Lostie ask “Where’s Locke?”
    [/quote]
    Actually, Desmond did ask Jack that. But I’m surprised noone followed up with “Why the hell did he go with the Others!?”

  204. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”49816″]My theories for you to chew up and spit out 🙂 :

    Rachel’s son was immaculately conceived…..Christianity references anyone?

    Why did no Lostie ask “Where’s Locke?”

    There are two reasons Juliet wants off the island. First is to obviously see her sister. Second is that she is about 2 months preggers with Goodwin’s love child. Otherwise there was little reason to show them in bed together.

    The 2004 Tsunami hit the south Pacific on Dec 26, 2004. That would be day 95 on the island for the losties. As mentioned above, we are currently on around day 82. If the writers wanted to make this work, they could.[/quote]

    wow, luvin Juliet pregnant theory, ur right, theres no need 2 show her with sum1 unless it has any relevance, luv it and also it wud b interestin to bring the tsunami into it, they have brought things like the red sox victory and christopher reeves death into it, why not something the whole world new about.

    and am i mistaken the tsunami hit thailand bad? and jack’s tatooe mate lived there, shame the communications station doesnt have the news anymore, lol

    +it was interseting to see the world know about the plane, and it was a big deal, but when we see that video its within hours of the plane’s crash.

    and about sawyer killing ducket, maybe christian works for the others and said he saw sawyer do it, cause they were near each other that night right>???

    but i love that you have remembered the Tsunami

    and something else to bring up, Hugo’s dad and mum have acsess to his cash, and Hugo’s dad said we will be waiting for you, so will they devote all Hugo’s money into trying to find him? maybe it will bring him and his dad closer together.

    ironic i bring that up to a replie to ”hurleys dad” comment, lol

  205. solost says:

    If Ben was born on the island, and roussoue(spg) is the mother of his child, how could she have already been pregnant before she got there? did i miss something?

  206. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49826″]If Ben was born on the island, and roussoue(spg) is the mother of his child, how could she have already been pregnant before she got there? did i miss something?[/quote]

    Rousseau is Alex’s mother, but we have yet to determine who the biological father is. Rousseau says that the Others kidnapped her baby which is how Ben has her currently.

  207. avalanche says:

    [quote comment=”49722″]The name of the pregnant woman who died on the operating table was named Sabine. This caught my attention because I remember from Roman history something about a battle between the Romans and the Sabines. Then I found the following on that noted authority on everything, Wikipedia: “Legend says that Romans abducted Sabine women to populate the newly built town.”

    Yet another example the writers’ tendency to select meaningful names for the characters.[/quote]

    i was told by a friend of mine once that all of western civilization is built on the rape of the sabine women. no repopulation–no rome. no rome–no western civilzation (ie: republics and such!)

    Would romans at the time consider this immoral. what has to be done has to be done right? maybe this is the “critical flaw” of the others and their moral superiority. i may be distrustful of all moral high ground folks because of the hypocritical nature of today’s republican party (re: Ted Haggard)but i think the others only think they are good. Jacob is the bad twin.

  208. MKS says:

    Juliette-
    I don’t think Juliette is bad. I think Juliette just wants to get home. She has no alliences to the Losties, but she does want to see her sister. She went to the island because she wanted to do some research. In the real world, it is pretty much impossible to do research with/ on pregnant women. Most researchers are very passionate about their jobs, and Juliette was no exception. She just wanted to do good. As far as the song “Down Town”, the lyrics tell to smile when you are sad, think about other things, and hope that things will get better. I think she listens to it because that is what she has to do- put on a happy face.
    Juliette’s sister-
    I think Rachel might have been involved with Dharma. We saw Ethan in her building while she was trying to get pregnant. Maybe they promised her to cure her of cancer (and thus making it possible to conceive) if she encouraged Juliette to go and work for them. Also, Julian was probably named after his aunt Juliette.
    Pregnancies-
    We know that people can’t conceive on the island, but they can have babies. As far as we know, no one has been conceived on the island. There is a possibility that Sun has now, but from her reaction when she found out she was pregnant, it seemed to imply that she herself does not think the baby is Jin’s- therefore, she did not get pregnant on the island.
    Ben-Alex-Danille
    Although Alex calls Ben her father, we have no prove that she is his biological daughter, Danielle and her husband were expecting a baby, had one, he died (or was killed), the baby was stolen. Alex has been told by Ben that her mother died, but that was most likely a lie. I certainly do not think that both Ben and Danielle are the parents- it’s one or the other.
    Kate-
    It has been less then two weeks since Kate and Sawyer had sex- too early for anyone to know if she is pregnant. By the way- her re-union with Sawyer seemed quite emotional. That girl needs to figure out who it is she wants.
    Time-
    When Ben shows Juliette her sister, it is three years after her arrival (she says it has been three years since she got there) on the island, and it is also three years in the real world (according to the newspaper we see).
    The Others-
    Ben clearly says: Find out who is on the plane and all about them. So I don’t think he knew the people on the plane, or that the plane was crashing.
    The “Box”-
    Ben had told Locke that the Island could manifest what it is one needed and/or wished for. At the time of the crash there were 1-a spine surgeon on the plane (what Ben needed) 2-one, possibly two, pregnant women (Claire and Sun).

  209. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    One thing has been bothering me for some time: How does a plane break in half that high up in the air and there are ANY survivors, let alone half the plane. No way. These people are in purgatory, trying to get to heaven. They just don’t know it yet. But Ben does. How’s that for a crazy theory??

  210. Toeknee says:

    I LOVED how they did the montage at the end. In past episodes, they’ve done montages over some cheesy music. Like something you’d see in Grey’s Anatomy or other such drivel.

    For this montage, they used Ben & Juliet’s conversation as the background, which worked perfectly for me. Also, it reminded me a bit of the end of The Godfather. Just perfect!

  211. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49816″]
    Why did no Lostie ask “Where’s Locke?”

    There are two reasons Juliet wants off the island. First is to obviously see her sister. Second is that she is about 2 months preggers with Goodwin’s love child. Otherwise there was little reason to show them in bed together.

    The 2004 Tsunami hit the south Pacific on Dec 26, 2004. That would be day 95 on the island for the losties. As mentioned above, we are currently on around day 82. If the writers wanted to make this work, they could.[/quote]

    someone DID ask about Locke-Jack replied that he left with Others.

    Also, I feel that Juliet was shown in bed with Goodwin to merely exhibit that she had adjusted and “accepted” being on island-then moments later she finds out about Ben’s tumor. Giving her doubts about her sister’s health-afterall, the only reason she agreed to stay after fertility experiments were unsuccessful was because she was promised her sister would be healed.

    Again, totally glad that others now also agree about tsunami!-I said this awhile back, BUT, if we are to see the tsunami, keep in mind, it would have to mean that there is some similarity between island time and real world time. AND it would also mean that the island is indeed an island, on Earth.

  212. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49831″]One thing has been bothering me for some time: How does a plane break in half that high up in the air and there are ANY survivors, let alone half the plane. No way. These people are in purgatory, trying to get to heaven. They just don’t know it yet. But Ben does. How’s that for a crazy theory??[/quote]

    People have been saying that for awhile and I’m pretty sure no one really believes it anymore.

  213. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49831″]These people are in purgatory, trying to get to heaven. They just don’t know it yet. But Ben does. How’s that for a crazy theory??[/quote]

    Didn’t the writers already say it was NOT purgatory?

  214. Tina says:

    From Lostpedia.com

    This theory was expressly debunked by head writer Damon Lindelof in a New York Times interview published on May 25, 2006. Noting the fact that the finale of Season 2 shows the outside world in the present (as opposed to a flashback) for the first time, Lindelof added: “People who believe that they’re in purgatory or that they’re subjects of an experiment are going to start reassessing those theories based on the fact that we are literally showing you the outside world.”

  215. MKS says:

    Purgatory-
    There would hardly be a tsunami in purgatory, would there?

  216. THE LOST KING says:

    well i have an idea. Karl is somehow a boy genius and he crashed on the vessel that Russo was on. Karl was a baby, but the others took him and Alex and have grown up together, and fell in love, since Juls seys that Karl developed the X rays of Ben’s maybe Ethan was his ”dad” and was teaching him the tricks of the trade, but somehow Karl knew the others were bad, and to ben, Karl is a bad influence on Alex.

  217. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49841″]well i have an idea. Karl is somehow a boy genius and he crashed on the vessel that Russo was on. Karl was a baby, but the others took him and Alex and have grown up together, and fell in love, since Juls seys that Karl developed the X rays of Ben’s maybe Ethan was his ”dad” and was teaching him the tricks of the trade, but somehow Karl knew the others were bad, and to ben, Karl is a bad influence on Alex.[/quote]

    OR he’s afraid that Alex will get pregnant and die in childbirth because of the disease that affects women who conceive on the island.

  218. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”49839″]Purgatory-
    There would hardly be a tsunami in purgatory, would there?[/quote]

    if you go to Lostpedia you will see cuse and lindelof deiscredited that theory.

  219. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”49834″][quote comment=”49831″]One thing has been bothering me for some time: How does a plane break in half that high up in the air and there are ANY survivors, let alone half the plane. No way. These people are in purgatory, trying to get to heaven. They just don’t know it yet. But Ben does. How’s that for a crazy theory??[/quote]

    People have been saying that for awhile and I’m pretty sure no one really believes it anymore.[/quote]

    the lost king:i agree tina

  220. avalanche says:

    i was wondering if perhaps carl wished ben had cancer so he would die. then he could be with alex. then ben wished for a cure and jack fell out of the sky. i liked the idea be was trying to keep the kids apart because alex’s life would be in danger if she get’s preggers. This would be a mirror of real life when parents try to keep kids from “ruining” their lives by having sex to early. as magical as this island is maybe the problems are standard the world over.

    on a tangent–commenmt 57 mentioned russian dolls. didn’t paolo smash the dolls to get to the diamonds. i was thinking since the diamonds were utterly worthless maybe the writers were trying to tell us that enjoying the dolls is better than what’s inside. sort of like getting there is more fun then being there. I really enjoy this blog and the interactivity that is lost–my faith in the writers tying all this up in a satisfying way is low–you people however amaze me at every theory/question/turn and post!

  221. Bobbi says:

    I still would like to know people’s thoughts on where Karl came from? He’s young-but probably not born there right? Definitely not conceived there. Where are his parents, how come nobody cares about him, and whether he’s mistreated by Ben?

    OH, and I LOVE that Herarat is also EARHART…there was talk recently about maybe the “adam & eve” was Earhart and her navigator, wasn’t there? Not so farfetched now! look at this.. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/01/earhart.mystery.ap/index.html
    makes you think….

  222. Hurley's Dad says:

    Thanks for the Locke clarification. Was going from memory…watching it a second time now.

    Noticed….two “longer than should have been” shots of her legs/feet in/on the sub. Once when she got out of the bunk, the second when she climed through the hatch and crawled on top.

    It seemed too long, like a mini-easter egg of sorts.

  223. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49850″]i was wondering if perhaps carl wished ben had cancer so he would die. then he could be with alex. then ben wished for a cure and jack fell out of the sky.
    quote]

    Interesting! I’m not loving the “conjuring” theories though-because-so many people are wishing for someone to save them. If someone could wish aplane to crash, couldn’t they wish for a plane to save them?

  224. MKS says:

    There has also been a theory out there about Middle-earth (By the way Mittelos means without middle in German). During WWII there was actuall research done by Germany trying to find a path to the place. The believe was that there was a secret under-water passage somewhere around the South Pole that allowed to get you to tropical middle-earth. Like so many mythological places it was supposed to be a place of magical powers and healing. This theory would explain the researchers at the pole in the last episode of season two, why a sub was needed to get to the island, and why it seems to be an island that is on no map.

  225. Harpua says:

    Paul of the Dead – best post of the day. I agree with Sayid and Sawyer backing down to easily. It has bothered how some the characters’ personalities have softened up. Sawyer and Kate especially. Here are two people who have spent their entire lives fending for themselves and now, all of sudden, just when their self-will and wits are needed the most, seem to have gone soft.

    Sayid also backs down way to easily:
    Sayid: She’s not coming with us
    Jack: Yes she is
    S: Why?
    J: ‘Cause I said so
    S: OK

    I mean, come on man, show some backbone.

  226. Tasha says:

    Finally. I have been reading comments since 8 this morning and FINALLY get to make a comment.

    As far as it not being pregutory…could it still not be another dimension? You know like in the movie “The Others.” I mean they do hear whispers and if I remember correctly, some of the whispers talk about coming to the other side.

    Anyway, I don’t see why Julliet is so evil. Her flashbacks look better than some of the other flashbacks! What has she really done but tried to get off this island? She wants to go home to her sister and nephew. People are willing to die and kill for love.

    I also noticed last night that they didn’t show flashbacks for Julliet from the day the plane crashed until now. We have no idea what is going on with her. I think they sent her back to get Ethan’s body. Maybe for Sun. Why don’t the Others just be honest about the pregnancies on the island?

    Kate Can be pregnant. If it has only been a week then we don’t even know if she has conceived yet. It’s rare that you get preggo at time of intercourse. It can take up to two weeks to conceive. So Jules doing kung fu on her is not going to hurt a baby. I bet they did something to Kate after they fogged her. Maybe implanted her with something? Who knows.

    I am going to finally watch this again.

  227. aevkc says:

    [quote comment=”49717″][quote comment=”49688″][/quote]So there’s something weird going on. They watched Sawyer kill the guy? They just happen to have hidden cameras planted in the precise spots they need to be so the Others witness things like that? Or, is there some time travel involve? Once they knew who was on the plane they went back in time and followed the people around?[/quote]

    Couldn’t it just be that the police were looking for sawyer, therefore when the others did there background check it showed up.[/quote]
    ________________
    But that’s the point- why would the police be looking for Sawyer? He had no direct connection to the guy he killed. There were no witnesses. The only person who could tie Sawyer to the murder victim is the guy who told Sawyer to kill him, and it’s doubtful he would come forward to the police.[/quote]

    If they were gathering background info. on Sawyer after the crash I’m sure they found out his connection to Hibbs and from there they could track the man Hibbs claimed was the “real” Sawyer. That guys turns up dead in Australia and the Others put two and two together. If they worked it out that way they didn’t need to be watching the Losties ahead of time.

  228. Tasha says:

    MKS- I HAVE BEEN KIND OF HOOKED ON THE MIDDLE EARTH THEORY. Now they say bumpy ride. If the sub is not staged, then it would explain how they get there. The sub would supposedly have to travel 800 miles under the ocean at one of the poles. But then the question is, how did the plane get there? Unless that was staged?

  229. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49857″]There has also been a theory out there about Middle-earth (By the way Mittelos means without middle in German). During WWII there was actuall research done by Germany trying to find a path to the place. The believe was that there was a secret under-water passage somewhere around the South Pole that allowed to get you to tropical middle-earth. Like so many mythological places it was supposed to be a place of magical powers and healing. This theory would explain the researchers at the pole in the last episode of season two, why a sub was needed to get to the island, and why it seems to be an island that is on no map.[/quote]
    So there would be a sky in middle earth? Interesting. I guess this will be tested with the tsunami theory too.

  230. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”49858″]Paul of the Dead – best post of the day. I agree with Sayid and Sawyer backing down to easily. It has bothered how some the characters’ personalities have softened up. Sawyer and Kate especially. Here are two people who have spent their entire lives fending for themselves and now, all of sudden, just when their self-will and wits are needed the most, seem to have gone soft.

    Sayid also backs down way to easily:
    Sayid: She’s not coming with us
    Jack: Yes she is
    S: Why?
    J: ‘Cause I said so
    S: OK

    I mean, come on man, show some backbone.[/quote]

    I know what you mean here, they have got softer. And im wondering if Cooper will? Or is this a whole big con? But in one case, Locke has got a lot harder, but it does bother me about the wimpy attitude some characters have gained. But i think lots of them are ashamedof their pasts.

  231. Meg says:

    [quote comment=”49831″]One thing has been bothering me for some time: How does a plane break in half that high up in the air and there are ANY survivors, let alone half the plane. No way. These people are in purgatory, trying to get to heaven. They just don’t know it yet. But Ben does. How’s that for a crazy theory??[/quote]
    Really not that crazy, since almost everyone thought that last year, until the Lost people said they weren’t going to end it with something stupid like that or it being all in someones head.

  232. THE LOST KING says:

    i dont like this middle earth theory, the same way i dont like the bermuda triangle theory. I think that the others wouldnt go there and the dharma wouldnt go there if they didnt want to be secretive, and if scientists and explorers all over the world are looking for these places, trying to get there, i think the others n dharma wouldnt live there in fear of being found

    good theory though

  233. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49815″]
    I’ll say it again…Kate is not now and will not be pregnant. The Others did it so Jack would see them together.[/quote]

    Dude :), I don’t understand why you can’t keep an open mind on Kate. Is there not enough evidence that preg. women are in VERY high demand? They COULD have been set up for two reasons (Jack’s manipulation and mating). Was there a condom wrapper with a Dharma logo on it in the cage that I missed?

  234. TimmyD says:

    But haven’t we seen Ethan both on and off the island? He was at the morgue when Juliet’s ex-husband died, he was coming out of Rachel’s apartment complex, and we’ve seen him a ton of times on the island.
    _____________________________________
    Here’s an idea–maybe there are TWO Ethan’s, one on the island, and one on the mainland. Anybody seen the movie The Prestige? Same general thing, different context. We’ve never seen Ethan traveling to and from, and Ben has said people cannot leave–the sub is an illusion. Just a thought.

  235. TimmyD says:

    Also-
    Was mentioned previously above that the song “Downtown” was also the song Desmond played in the hatch Season 2 Ep. #1. Incorrect. The song Desmond played was “Make Your Own Kind of Music” by Cass Elliot. They kind of are similar, so I can understand the mistake.

  236. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”49870″]i dont like this middle earth theory, the same way i dont like the bermuda triangle theory. I think that the others wouldnt go there and the dharma wouldnt go there if they didnt want to be secretive, and if scientists and explorers all over the world are looking for these places, trying to get there, i think the others n dharma wouldnt live there in fear of being found

    good theory though[/quote]

    No one is looking for this place anymore. It was an old mythological believe- same as the believe in Eldorado, the spring of life, and alchemy. Our scientific knowledge of the Earth has long put this into the realm of Mythology. But, the writers seem to use a lot of mythological and religious references.

  237. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”49874″]But haven’t we seen Ethan both on and off the island? He was at the morgue when Juliet’s ex-husband died, he was coming out of Rachel’s apartment complex, and we’ve seen him a ton of times on the island.
    _____________________________________
    Here’s an idea–maybe there are TWO Ethan’s, one on the island, and one on the mainland. Anybody seen the movie The Prestige? Same general thing, different context. We’ve never seen Ethan traveling to and from, and Ben has said people cannot leave–the sub is an illusion. Just a thought.[/quote]

    Ben has said that people can NO LONGER leave, since the purple sky blast. He says that is when they lost communication with the outside world. It seems pretty obvious from flashbacks that some of the Others have indeed traveled back and forth from/ to the island.

  238. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”49871″][quote comment=”49815″]
    I’ll say it again…Kate is not now and will not be pregnant. The Others did it so Jack would see them together.[/quote]

    Dude :), I don’t understand why you can’t keep an open mind on Kate. Is there not enough evidence that preg. women are in VERY high demand? They COULD have been set up for two reasons (Jack’s manipulation and mating). Was there a condom wrapper with a Dharma logo on it in the cage that I missed?[/quote]

    🙂 In order to watch this show, one needs an open mind.

    It’s my personal opinion, but one I feel very strong about and wanted to convey that so people could point to it later when she has twins. One good and of course, one bad. 🙂

  239. Tina says:

    Hammer:

    If Dharma initiative condoms exist, Sawyer’s the man who is going to have them. 🙂

  240. katesFriend says:

    this is my first time posting, but i read this blog every thursday when I should be reading for law school! you guys have such great ideas!

    Just a question though:

    Why does everyone think that women cannot conceive on the island? it has been mentioned in a couple posts above and I think it is that something happens to them when they go to give birth

    they have to be able to conceive, or there would be no birth to die from, right?

  241. Hammer says:

    Hurley’s Dad – That’s cool…and funny.

  242. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49886″]this is my first time posting, but i read this blog every thursday when I should be reading for law school! you guys have such great ideas!

    Just a question though:

    Why does everyone think that women cannot conceive on the island? it has been mentioned in a couple posts above and I think it is that something happens to them when they go to give birth

    they have to be able to conceive, or there would be no birth to die from, right?[/quote]
    Your kind of right. According to Juliet, the disorder happens at conception. But I didn’t notice anything that said whether they die while giving birth or during the pregnancy.

  243. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”49888″][quote comment=”49886″]this is my first time posting, but i read this blog every thursday when I should be reading for law school! you guys have such great ideas!

    Just a question though:

    Why does everyone think that women cannot conceive on the island? it has been mentioned in a couple posts above and I think it is that something happens to them when they go to give birth

    they have to be able to conceive, or there would be no birth to die from, right?[/quote]
    Your kind of right. According to Juliet, the disorder happens at conception. But I didn’t notice anything that said whether they die while giving birth or during the pregnancy.[/quote]

    either way though, they are still conceiving, so THAT is not what is impossible

  244. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49886″]this is my first time posting, but i read this blog every thursday when I should be reading for law school! you guys have such great ideas!

    Just a question though:

    Why does everyone think that women cannot conceive on the island? it has been mentioned in a couple posts above and I think it is that something happens to them when they go to give birth

    they have to be able to conceive, or there would be no birth to die from, right?[/quote]

    Well, it isn’t that they can’t conceive but that something happens to them when they do that makes it impossible for them to deliver without dying. At least that’s what last night’s episode said.

  245. Hammer says:

    Yep, that’s how I take it.

  246. THE LOST KING says:

    Number 1-> thanks MKS, i didnt know that, maybe it is a possiblity??
    Number 2->Kate, in my personal opinion, is NOT pregnant. here me out here, we have got a pregnant woman who is sun. Now at the moment Kate is the only female character (other than Juliet) who is strong and clever and is in loop as hurley called it. what im tryin to say is the writers wouldnt make Kate pregnant becaause 1-the storylines for a preg woman are being used on Sun who doesnt really have a story after this
    2-makin the main girl character pregnant is a waste of character when you already have a preg person, if anyone else is pregnant lets agree with ”hurleys dad” (i think it was) who said he thought Juliet is becaose theres no point in showing her and goodwin in bed without repercussions.

  247. Rick says:

    [quote comment=”49830″]
    The Others-
    Ben clearly says: Find out who is on the plane and all about them. So I don’t think he knew the people on the plane, or that the plane was crashing.
    The “Box”-
    Ben had told Locke that the Island could manifest what it is one needed and/or wished for. At the time of the crash there were 1-a spine surgeon on the plane (what Ben needed) 2-one, possibly two, pregnant women (Claire and Sun).[/quote]

    If we go with the Ben as time manipulator and creator of babies theory, then both his response to the Others and re: the Box are merely his attempts to maintain the illusion he’s created.

    There aren’t Losties and Others. There’s Ben and everybody else.

  248. THE LOST KING says:

    EXTREMELY BESIDES THE POINT-> who thinks that in an ironic twist DEsmond will die saving Charlie’s life? or is he too bigger main characeR?

    and Ben said he didnt lie, but when it came to saving his neck, he HAD to lie. no excuse i know but still

  249. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”49894″][quote comment=”49830″]
    The Others-
    Ben clearly says: Find out who is on the plane and all about them. So I don’t think he knew the people on the plane, or that the plane was crashing.
    The “Box”-
    Ben had told Locke that the Island could manifest what it is one needed and/or wished for. At the time of the crash there were 1-a spine surgeon on the plane (what Ben needed) 2-one, possibly two, pregnant women (Claire and Sun).[/quote]

    If we go with the Ben as time manipulator and creator of babies theory, then both his response to the Others and re: the Box are merely his attempts to maintain the illusion he’s created.

    There aren’t Losties and Others. There’s Ben and everybody else.[/quote]

    ——————————-
    the lost king says : er i think the box thing was a metaphor

  250. Joanna says:

    The Stephen King Book that the book club was reading was–Carey–Henry said to Juliette–” I was just finishing Carey–I still don’t why you picked it but boy was it depressing” Does any one know what that book was about?

  251. Hammer says:

    THE LOST KING – Once again, you are assuming that the pregnancy would carry out and keep a strong character in the kitchen, barefoot and preg. Open you mind young Jedi. Take into account that Ben’s motive is to have reproduction on the island. Why do you assume he only wants one woman pregnant? I think his goal is have as many as possible. I don’t limit it to EITHER Kate or Juliet. What about both? Why does Juliet + naked=preg. but Kate+naked=not preg.? Heck Sun+naked=preg. too.

  252. Hurley's Dad says:

    ***New thought process***

    Last night Ben had a HUGE reaction when Juliet called him a liar. Completely denied that he ever lies. Then proved to her that he didn’t.

    This is not the first time he has done this. So, either he is lying ALL THE TIME, or never.

    Here’s the question. Has Ben Linus been proven to have lied, ever? To my recollection he has not.

    For the purpose of this argument, lets disregard anything he said as “Henry Gale”. In Ben’s mind he may have been playing the part or the role of Henry, so as Ben he hasn’t lied.

    He probably has and I don’t remember a specific example. Please post any specific lies Ben has told.

  253. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49886″]this is my first time posting, but i read this blog every thursday when I should be reading for law school! you guys have such great ideas!

    Just a question though:

    Why does everyone think that women cannot conceive on the island? it has been mentioned in a couple posts above and I think it is that something happens to them when they go to give birth

    they have to be able to conceive, or there would be no birth to die from, right?[/quote]
    It’s not that we think you CAN’T concieve on the island-but pregnancies concieved on the island fail. Except for claire’s. We thought previously that there might be a problem conceiving, but now we know it can happen-with help. Juliet’s point for even being there is to assist with conception.

  254. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49903″]***New thought process***

    Last night Ben had a HUGE reaction when Juliet called him a liar. Completely denied that he ever lies. Then proved to her that he didn’t.

    This is not the first time he has done this. So, either he is lying ALL THE TIME, or never.

    Here’s the question. Has Ben Linus been proven to have lied, ever? To my recollection he has not.

    For the purpose of this argument, lets disregard anything he said as “Henry Gale”. In Ben’s mind he may have been playing the part or the role of Henry, so as Ben he hasn’t lied.

    He probably has and I don’t remember a specific example. Please post any specific lies Ben has told.[/quote]
    I asked this earlier today, and people gave me a few examples. He lied about being Henry Gale, and he lied about the button being meaningless to Locke.

  255. Tasha says:

    I say Kate is going to be pregnant. Last week’s episode she was with Sawyer’s ex who was pregnant. Does anybody think these people are ever going to get off the island? In every theory of mine, in the last episode, it will be the people on this island and that is it. Whether they stay on the island or not. They will be what is left. So I say they need to make babies! It can’t just be two. They need to reproduce life because they will be all that is left! Making a new race in hollow earth! LOL

  256. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49901″]THE LOST KING – Once again, you are assuming that the pregnancy would carry out and keep a strong character in the kitchen, barefoot and preg. Open you mind young Jedi. Take into account that Ben’s motive is to have reproduction on the island. Why do you assume he only wants one woman pregnant? I think his goal is have as many as possible. I don’t limit it to EITHER Kate or Juliet. What about both? Why does Juliet + naked=preg. but Kate+naked=not preg.? Heck Sun+naked=preg. too.[/quote]

    Whoa let’s all slow down the pregger train and give the series some time to air the next episode! I seriously doubt EVERY eligible bachelorette on the island is going to BE pregnant- Sawyer’s supersperm nonwithstanding.

    I think that the likelihood of a KAte pregnancy storyline doesn’t quite fit in line with the character developed thus far, Sun’s does, Claire does/did, Juliet’s could possibly, but Kate-there’s something super fishy about her and I think that the writers have much more intense plans for her than pregnancy.

  257. Hammer says:

    Okay, according to your rules. He had already admitted that he wasn’t Henry when he told Locke that he didn’t push the button.

  258. Dax says:

    Did anyone pick up on how Jack’s comment to Charlie (”What’s the matter Charlie, don’t you trust me?”) sounded alot like Ben’s comments to Juliette about her calling him a liar. I don’t know, maybe it’s just coincidence (but maybe it’s consequence). Jack didn’t dispell much information on what happened in Otherville… he just gave short answers, is he trying to hide/divert information. Any ideas? Anyone notice anything?

  259. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”49909″]Okay, according to your rules. He had already admitted that he wasn’t Henry when he told Locke that he didn’t push the button.[/quote]

    Both as Henry Gale, not as Ben Linus.

    What I’m trying to distinguish here. In Ben’s mind, he was not lying. He was playing a part.

  260. Hurley's Dad says:

    And therefore (connecting dots) we can believe EVERYTHING he has said when he wasn’t playing the part of Henry Gale.

  261. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49911″]Did anyone pick up on how Jack’s comment to Charlie (”What’s the matter Charlie, don’t you trust me?”) sounded alot like Ben’s comments to Juliette about her calling him a liar. I don’t know, maybe it’s just coincidence (but maybe it’s consequence). Jack didn’t dispell much information on what happened in Otherville… he just gave short answers, is he trying to hide/divert information. Any ideas? Anyone notice anything?[/quote]
    I have felt a little uneasy about Jack’s behavior. When he first was with Others-in the cell-he demanded answers, and was very inquisitive and suspicious. Now, at first when he was told he was going on sub-I accepted his telling Kate that he didn’t care about answers, just wanted to get off island. But-now that he thinks there is no way off-why not get irate again? Why not demand answers from Juliet? Seems fishy-but perhaps they are just focusing on everything else. I agree though, his behavior has changed.

  262. Tasha says:

    So are we trying to say that Ben doesn’t actually say it then he isn’t lying?

    Because I can think of a lot of instances where Ben was lying but didn’t actually say it. Maybe that is being manipulative?

    He says that everyone can leave whenever they want. But then he says it’s an illusion.

    He says that he will let Jack Julliet go, but he knows Locke is going to blow up the sub.

    He tells Jack that he will let his friend’s go once they leave the island…again…he knew that was never going to happen.

  263. Hammer says:

    I guess you are missing the point. When Ben told Locke that he didn’t push the button, he had already admitted that he was not Henry Gale…therefore making the lie when he was NO LONGER playing the role.

  264. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49915″]And therefore (connecting dots) we can believe EVERYTHING he has said when he wasn’t playing the part of Henry Gale.[/quote]
    But hammer had said Ben already admitted to not being Henry, so he wouldnt be playing part anymore. I’m still interested though. It would be really nice to just have ONE character who’s word could be trusted, even if their actions can’t! It would make things easier to have some reference point.

  265. TimmyD says:

    [quote comment=”49903″]***New thought process***

    Last night Ben had a HUGE reaction when Juliet called him a liar. Completely denied that he ever lies. Then proved to her that he didn’t.

    This is not the first time he has done this. So, either he is lying ALL THE TIME, or never.

    Here’s the question. Has Ben Linus been proven to have lied, ever? To my recollection he has not.

    For the purpose of this argument, lets disregard anything he said as “Henry Gale”. In Ben’s mind he may have been playing the part or the role of Henry, so as Ben he hasn’t lied.

    He probably has and I don’t remember a specific example. Please post any specific lies Ben has told.[/quote]
    ____________________________________________
    OK. Here’s a lie. Ben telling Jack that he can go home if he performs the surgery. Later, Ben tells Locke that since the sky turned purple nobody could actually leave, and the sub was needed to maintain the illusion that they could. Now, UNLESS Ben was REALLY going to instead give Jack a pair of ruby slippers and instruct him to click the heals and say “There’s no place like home”, then this appears to be a lie on Ben’s part.

  266. Bobbi says:

    The thing is, that Ben has been doing alot of manipulating in place of lying, which made me wonder about his claim to never lie in the first place. It seems some things would have just been easier for him to lie than drawn out manipulations, ie telling Jack he’d let everyone go after he and Juliet left, etc. So maybe there is something to this afterall. All I know is that Ben’s character really makes me believe the things he says, even if he is evil slime.

  267. Kay says:

    [quote comment=”49920″]I guess you are missing the point. When Ben told Locke that he didn’t push the button, he had already admitted that he was not Henry Gale…therefore making the lie when he was NO LONGER playing the role.[/quote]

    If I remember correctly, Ben lied about pushing the button when Sayid etc was out looking for Henry Gale’s hot air balloon…so he was still in Henry Gale mode.

  268. Bobbi says:

    TimmyD-he didnt say that to Locke, he said they could leave but not find their way back.

  269. avalanche says:

    [quote comment=”49899″]The Stephen King Book that the book club was reading was–Carey–Henry said to Juliette–” I was just finishing Carey–I still don’t why you picked it but boy was it depressing” Does any one know what that book was about?[/quote]

    Carrie is about a talented (telekinetic) girl who is punished by an overly religious mother. she is abused by this mother and told she is sinning. this creates the borderline personality of carrie and she uses her power for evil (at the prom).

    I think Ben thinks this is depressing because he wants to celebrate special powers not punish them–but juliett thinks/feels punished by being kept on the island.. i believe this is mirrored by carrie’s mom who keeps her in a sort of repentance closet–it’s been twenty years since i read the book or watched the movie so someone might correct me.

    I appreciate bonni challenging the cojuring ideas because someone on the island would have conjured a plane rescue. I’m thinking that someone has to know how to use “the box.” There’s a great kurt vonnegut (rip) short story where a man accidently figures out a thought sequence which gives him telekinetic powers. (anyone know the title?) maybe people on the island are accidently triggering the box–kate’s horse/ jack’s dad. ben knows something of how to use it–maybe karl does too. this is why it’s so important to reeducate karl. ben seems awfuly concerned that john knows something ben doesn’t. after all he was allowed to go even though he killed michail…or did he? do they know he did?

    also–has anyone read one of my favorite books–borderliners by peter hoeg. it’s about kids who are either sick or amazingly advanced. the reader can decide. there is a scene that keeps haunting my thoughts about lost. a character swings on a rope dangerously close to the front of a speeding train. on this quick swing he can stretch his perception of time to infinity. odd book that has much discourse on the nature of time. makes me think of carrie’s situation.

  270. Barb says:

    I need to watch some backstories – which episode shows sawyer killing the guy before getting on the plane?

  271. Hammer says:

    Well regardless of who he says he is when he lies, he’s a liar. I like TimmyD’s example, if he told he Jack he could go home…that is a lie…or…if he told Locke no one can leave…then that’s a lie…they both can’t be true.

  272. Kay says:

    [quote comment=”49928″]I need to watch some backstories – which episode shows sawyer killing the guy before getting on the plane?[/quote]

    This is from “Outlaws” in Season 1 (episode 16).

  273. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49930″]Well regardless of who he says he is when he lies, he’s a liar. I like TimmyD’s example, if he told he Jack he could go home…that is a lie…or…if he told Locke no one can leave…then that’s a lie…they both can’t be true.[/quote]
    No he told Jack he could leave-and Locke that no one could come back. He didnt say no one could leave to Locke. He said they could leave in that sub, but since the purple haze, no signal was going off-so no one could return, the sub couldn’t come back, etc.

  274. Hammer says:

    Stand corrected…good catch…remove this example, he’s still a liar.

  275. Tina says:

    Didn’t someone famous say something along the lines of the best liars are those that decieve everyone, including themselves….

    Maybe Ben is constantly creating stories in his mind, belieivng them so hard that they become true for him. He doesn’t really live in reality so to speak, so whatever ever he convinces himself is true, is.

  276. Jones says:

    Just a few thoughts:

    1. Ben’s plan seemed unnecessarily complicated to me. What purpose did it serve to have Juliet drag Kate into the jungle (other than to facilitate the mud wrestling)? Why not just handcuff herself to Kate in the gameroom? And why not handcuff her to Jack?

    2. Maybe Juliet was trying to get pregnant by Goodwin in order to pursuade Ben to let her off the island – to use herself as a test case. It didn’t seem like she was in love with him or anything. She also commented that Jack was cute when she was in the Pearl station with Paulo hiding in the bathroom. Maybe now she wants to get pregnant by Jack?

    3. I’ve noticed a lot of people are commenting about how Sayid is never wrong. But in his flashback a few weeks ago, his instincts totally failed him. He ended up kidnapped by the supposed “restaurant owner” because he didnt’ realize he was being lied to. Maybe people have commented about this on another thread, but it seemed really obvious he was being lied to in that episode and totally out of character for him not to know it. Perhaps those flashbacks were occurring in a different timeline?

    4. I hope that the writers do not try to explain the tsunami by using events on the island. I think it would be in extremely poor taste to fictionalize such a real life catastrophe. It might give us more info as to where the losties are, though, if we consider whether or not the tsunami affects them.

  277. Hammer says:

    Tina – Good point. So far, for Jack, he has been able to keep his word without keeping it. Which leads me to this question. Just because the sub was blown up(or was it?), why does Ben get to abandon Jack instead of keeping him around until he can fulfill his promise of sending Jack home. If the sub isn’t detroyed and Ben, Locke and the gang ran off in it, then Ben did not keep his word.

  278. Boots says:

    [quote comment=”49815″]Thoughts on earlier posts:

    The only logical conclusion I can come up with for the Others knowledge of Sawyers “murder incident” is that there is a connection between Hibbs and Cooper.[/quote]

    I think you are on to something here. And we already know that the man Sawyer mistakenly killed was connected to the real Sawyer. So, assuming Cooper is the real Sawyer, he may have been the one to tell the others about the murder.

    That’s a good enough explanation for me.

  279. Boots says:

    [quote comment=”49937″]Just a few thoughts:

    4. I hope that the writers do not try to explain the tsunami by using events on the island. I think it would be in extremely poor taste to fictionalize such a real life catastrophe. It might give us more info as to where the losties are, though, if we consider whether or not the tsunami affects them.[/quote]

    I agree. That would be in poor taste.

  280. MKS says:

    Pregnancies-
    It is possible to conceive on the island. The problem is that the fetuses conceived on the island start to get rejected by the mother’s bodies at some point in the pregnancy. The body does not recognize the fetus and starts treating it like a parasite, trying to get rid of it. Juliette was supposed to come up with a way for the body to stop rejecting the pregnancy, i.e. carry it full term without aborting the baby and/or killing the mother.

    Claire’s baby was not conceived on the island, thus her body did not reject the baby. We’ll see when we find out when and where Sun conceived whether she can keep the baby or not.

  281. Bobbi says:

    Jones- I agree, Ben’s plan was complicated. Perhaps the point of Kate and Juliet being cuffed together in jungle for a day was to attempt to get Kate’s sympathy for Juliet.-after all Juliet, while reviewing the plan with Ben, said she was supposed to get caught in a lie and admit cuffing herself to kate. All part of the manipulation-coming clean about a little thing, would make Kate assume she was coming clean about it all. But I also wonder if it was to get them out of Othersville, because something took place involving Jack. We already wonder why he was unconscious for more than a day from the gas-maybe he wasn’t unconscious the whole time.

  282. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    Ok, I had no idea other people have talked about pergatory. That was my first post here. If the producers already debunked it then fine. But still, HOW DOES A PLANE BREAK IN HALF IN MID AIR AND SO MANY PEOPLE SURVIVE??!! I’m just sayin’.

  283. Meg says:

    [quote comment=”49948″]Ok, I had no idea other people have talked about pergatory. That was my first post here. If the producers already debunked it then fine. But still, HOW DOES A PLANE BREAK IN HALF IN MID AIR AND SO MANY PEOPLE SURVIVE??!! I’m just sayin’.[/quote]
    Thats what we’re all saying.

  284. Tom says:

    Great blog and love all your posts. Keep them comming!

    My big question is…
    What could Juliette tell Sayid that would make him want to kill her?

  285. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49954″]Great blog and love all your posts. Keep them comming!

    My big question is…
    What could Juliette tell Sayid that would make him want to kill her?[/quote]
    Obvious total speculation.

    You can never leave.

    You all are our test subjects.

    I am going to kill you so that Ben will let me leave the island.

    We are aliens working on taking over the world.

    You have been sacrificed and placed inon an alternate reality to expirement with the Valenzetti equation to save the world!!

    (Just having fun to break up the intensity.)

  286. LostDamery says:

    Okay I just cant read all the posts…WOW
    I have to leave my 2 cents:
    1) Juliette is just trying to get off the island she will play every Islander(not the hockey team.) she has to, to get off the island. I still like her but she is no push over…
    2) I still think Locke is in an advanced stage of Desmondism (traversing time) and he is on a mission to get infamous(more than famous) Jacob…who is yet to be cast…or is it Sayid?

  287. MKS says:

    Juliette told Sayid and Sawyer something about- you don’t want more blood on your hands- or something to that effect. Anyway, it sounded like a warning to me. Maybe she knows that the island does not like people with blood on their hands? It sounded like she was not just talking about Claire (needing to get the medicine to her), but like she was also warning them to leave her alone. Anyone else got that impression?

  288. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”49918″]He says that everyone can leave whenever they want. But then he says it’s an illusion.[/quote]
    Not a lie that has been proven yet. It seems Richard got to and from the island after the plane crash.

    [quote comment=”49918″]He says that he will let Jack Julliet go, but he knows Locke is going to blow up the sub.[/quote]
    Didn’t lie to Jack. Locke could have changed his mind and Ben would have had to let him go.

    [quote comment=”49918″]He tells Jack that he will let his friend’s go once they leave the island…again…he knew that was never going to happen.[/quote]
    Yep, I agree. But there’s still not a lie here. Every sentence he spoke could have come to fruition.

  289. Hammer says:

    MKS – Yeah, sort of. I thought that she was saying that if Claire died because they did something to keep Juliet from saving her they would have more blood on their hands. But heck, you could be correct too.

  290. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”49925″][quote comment=”49920″]I guess you are missing the point. When Ben told Locke that he didn’t push the button, he had already admitted that he was not Henry Gale…therefore making the lie when he was NO LONGER playing the role.[/quote]

    If I remember correctly, Ben lied about pushing the button when Sayid etc was out looking for Henry Gale’s hot air balloon…so he was still in Henry Gale mode.[/quote]

    Yep. As Henry Gale.

    I said it earlier but want to make sure my point is clear. Take Ben’s words literally and there aren’t any lies.

    Now…there’s somebody we can trust. 🙂

  291. lost fan says:

    last week I thought Juliette would be a traitor. then I was convinced of her being “one of us” when jack talked to her about the look in her eyes when the sub blew up.

    I think one of two things will happen. 1.) juliette is playing ben now instead of being played by him yet again. she is acting like she is on board w/ bens plan, but will actually turn on the “others.” 2.) jack knows juliette is playing everyone. jack has never been so trusting as he was the last 2 episodes w/ juliette. he might be the one doing the coning this time instead of an juliette or ben.

    either way, I dont think juliette will end up doing what the end of last nights show implied she would do.

    I didnt think about it until I read a previous post, but what was jack doing for those ~24 hours b/t being gassed and when juliette and kate showed up. that could possibly come back into play b/c he should have freed syaid b/f kate and juliette got back.

  292. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    Ben made a huge point to Juliet about being upset that she thought he lied to her. His words were something like, “I don’t lie”. He believes all he says or makes it happen.

    I loved when Sawyer called him bug-eyed. The actor who plays Ben must really love that.

    When will all the coincidences piece together? Jack and Claire are siblings, Sawyer’s jilted lover meets Kate in Iowa, etc…There’s more, I just can’t remeber them all. Ben’s people have pieced all this together?? They’ve set this all up? Unbelievable…..really. Good thing I have a great imagination.

  293. Hammer says:

    I love to beat a dead horse. Are you saying that if I said that I am Elvis, I am not lying because when I said it I was playing the role of Elvis? Ben has lied, he is a liar. He cannot claim he nevers lies…he has.

  294. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49964″]Ben made a huge point to Juliet about being upset that she thought he lied to her. His words were something like, “I don’t lie”. He believes all he says or makes it happen.[/quote]

    He might believe it, but when he said he was Henry Gale, he wasn’t. He didn’t turn into Henry Gale, he simply lied.

  295. MKS says:

    I think Ben was saying he had never lied to Juliette, not that he did not lie to the Losties while being held prisoner. I also think there might have been a romantic relationship between Ben and Juliette that had ended shortly before- thus he was out of the book club and she was shacking up with someone else (did not seem like there was much of a connection there). Ben was upset because she accused him of lying to HER.

  296. THE LOST KING says:

    THE LOST KING – Once again, you are assuming that the pregnancy would carry out and keep a strong character in the kitchen, barefoot and preg. Open you mind young Jedi. Take into account that Ben’s motive is to have reproduction on the island. Why do you assume he only wants one woman pregnant? I think his goal is have as many as possible. I don’t limit it to EITHER Kate or Juliet. What about both? Why does Juliet + naked=preg. but Kate+naked=not preg.? Heck Sun+naked=preg. too.[/quote]

    I am saying Juliet+Naked+Preg becase so far we do not have a reason for them showing Juliet and Goodwin together, its not to show she is finally happy, because near enough after that she is screaming at Ben crying. There is no reason for Juliet and Goodwin to be together, whereas Kate was to show us that she chose Sawyer.

    And i think ur assuming Ben wants everyone on the island to be pregnant. Why would he? Then every woman would die?? And no babies would be made?? He has implied he wants people to have babies, but considering he thinks the others are the good guys, he would rather have his own people preg and not steal kids. And the reason im thinkin kate aint preg is coz they have a preg woman and to make the main girl pregnant, thats ridiculous.

    your reading into everyone getting pregnant a bit too much Hammer, slow down a bit, you see everyone have sex and jump to conclusions they ALL are pregnant.

    And i know its been mentioned but was it just me who heard Juls say Karl made the X rays for ben. Meaning Karl KARL. AKA Alex’s boyfriend??

  297. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49963″]I didnt think about it until I read a previous post, but what was jack doing for those ~24 hours b/t being gassed and when juliette and kate showed up. that could possibly come back into play b/c he should have freed syaid b/f kate and juliette got back.[/quote]
    Here’s my take. Juliet approaches Jack as being abandoned. He agrees with Juliet (Ben’s plan) to cuff herself to Kate because he knew that would be the only way Kate would let Juliet go back to camp. Jack knows something isn’t right, but plays along until he can figure her out. She tells him to fake being passed out when they get back.

  298. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49970″]your reading into everyone getting pregnant a bit too much Hammer, slow down a bit, you see everyone have sex and jump to conclusions they ALL are pregnant.[/quote]
    Not quite, I am saying it is POSSIBLE while you are saying it isn’t. You have jumped to conclusions, I am saying keep an open mind.

  299. MKS says:

    I am saying Juliet+Naked+Preg becase so far we do not have a reason for them showing Juliet and Goodwin together, its not to show she is finally happy, because near enough after that she is screaming at Ben crying. There is no reason for Juliet and Goodwin to be together, whereas Kate was to show us that she chose Sawyer.

    As I said above, the reason why they showed Juliette with Goodwin could be that she had ended a relationship with Ben and was either moving on, or trying to show Ben that she was moving on.

  300. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”49943″]Pregnancies-
    It is possible to conceive on the island. The problem is that the fetuses conceived on the island start to get rejected by the mother’s bodies at some point in the pregnancy. The body does not recognize the fetus and starts treating it like a parasite, trying to get rid of it. Juliette was supposed to come up with a way for the body to stop rejecting the pregnancy, i.e. carry it full term without aborting the baby and/or killing the mother.

    Claire’s baby was not conceived on the island, thus her body did not reject the baby. We’ll see when we find out when and where Sun conceived whether she can keep the baby or not.[/quote]

    I don’t know if any of you watch House, but they had an episode about a woman who’s body started treating the fetus like a parasite

    there, the problem was with the fetus, not the mother

    so maybe there is something wrong with the babies, not the moms

  301. sue says:

    Just another random thought..When Hurley said “He’s buried over there” refering to Ethan, did anyone else think about the episode when Locke said “Nothing stays buried on the island.”

  302. Emily McD says:

    [quote comment=”49816″]My theories for you to chew up and spit out 🙂 :

    Rachel’s son was immaculately conceived…..Christianity references anyone?

    Why did no Lostie ask “Where’s Locke?”

    There are two reasons Juliet wants off the island. First is to obviously see her sister. Second is that she is about 2 months preggers with Goodwin’s love child. Otherwise there was little reason to show them in bed together.

    The 2004 Tsunami hit the south Pacific on Dec 26, 2004. That would be day 95 on the island for the losties. As mentioned above, we are currently on around day 82. If the writers wanted to make this work, they could.[/quote]

    You’re a genious! It so did not occur to me that Juliet could be pregnant, but you’re right, why would they put that scene in? (I just figured it was for the male viewers at home.)

  303. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49976″]Just another random thought..When Hurley said “He’s buried over there” refering to Ethan, did anyone else think about the episode when Locke said “Nothing stays buried on the island.”[/quote]
    Absolutely, my first thought was that maybe he isn’t dead anymore. But so far, we haven’t had any zombies, so I don’t know where they were going with that.

  304. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49973″]As I said above, the reason why they showed Juliette with Goodwin could be that she had ended a relationship with Ben and was either moving on, or trying to show Ben that she was moving on.[/quote]
    I could buy that. Ben did make a comment when she served Jack a sandwhich that she never made him one. That seemed like an exlover kind of exchange.

  305. Lostie says:

    I read an Article and found this:
    -Herarat Aviation also anagrams into ”a variation Earth” as in quantum mechanics
    -Herarat also anagrams into “Earhart” as in Amelia Earhart, the aviator who went famously missing in 1937
    -Mittelos = “Lost Time”

  306. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”49967″]Are you saying that if I said that I am Elvis, I am not lying because when I said it I was playing the role of Elvis? Ben has lied, he is a liar. He cannot claim he nevers lies…he has.[/quote]
    Thank you…thank you very much, Dude. (Elvis and Hurley’s Dad wrapped into one) 🙂

    Nope. You’d be lying. I AM SPLITTING HAIRS. But I think he (Ben) is too.

    I haven’t heard Ben say he was Henry. I saw Ben playing the role of Henry, saying he was Henry.

    I personally don’t think Ben Linus is a liar. Manipulator, jerk, . But not a liar. That’s why he’s so adament when people call him one.

    Of course, maybe the person playing “Henry” was actually a….bad twin?

  307. Christina says:

    Call me crazy. But with everything that has thrown everyone for a twist in this show. I think i’m entitled to the opinion that Locke is somehow working with the Others long before he just leaves the barricades with them. I mean, he blows everything up he touches that could prove real information to the Lost people? I dunno, maybe it’s just me. But I can safely say that anything is possible with this show.

  308. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”49977″]You’re a genious! It so did not occur to me that Juliet could be pregnant, but you’re right, why would they put that scene in? (I just figured it was for the male viewers at home.)[/quote]
    To paraphrase Hurley’s Mom.

    “Men have needs too.”

    P.S. When I see Elizabeth Mitchell, keep going back to the movie Gia…..but that’s for another message board. 🙂

  309. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment=”49619″]Did anyone else think that it was complete horseshit how Sayid and Sawyer tracked Juliet through the jungle determined to get answers only to be “stunned” just because she knew a little dirt on them? Sawyer, at least, should know that the Others have some info on them. The badassery of Season 1 Sawyer would have never allowed Juliet to pass without an explanation, even with Claire’s life on the line.

    i think it was more of a “she’s right, u don’t air your dirty laundry as soon as u meet somebody even if u r an other” than an “how the heck did she know that?”

  310. john locke says:

    about the whole ben saying he doesnt lie thing. i think he was just saying to juliette that he didnt lie to her about her sister, and that he really did help cure her. he said i gave you my word.and he also gave jack his word too, and he was going to let jack leave, bowever due to certain circumstances that seem to out of bens control prevented him from leaving. i know this is probably confusing, but it makes sense to me lol. my head hurts. but bottom line, ben never said that he NEVER lies, just that he didnt to juliette about her sister.

  311. Christina says:

    Oh P.S.- where the heck did Juliette learn Kung-Fu like she pulled on Kate? That was kinda wack

  312. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49927″][quote comment=”49899″]The Stephen King Book that the book club was reading was–Carey–Henry said to Juliette–” I was just finishing Carey–I still don’t why you picked it but boy was it depressing” Does any one know what that book was about?[/quote]

    Carrie is about a talented (telekinetic) girl who is punished by an overly religious mother. she is abused by this mother and told she is sinning. this creates the borderline personality of carrie and she uses her power for evil (at the prom).

    I think Ben thinks this is depressing because he wants to celebrate special powers not punish them–but juliett thinks/feels punished by being kept on the island.. i believe this is mirrored by carrie’s mom who keeps her in a sort of repentance closet–it’s been twenty years since i read the book or watched the movie so someone might correct me.

    I appreciate bonni challenging the cojuring ideas because someone on the island would have conjured a plane rescue. I’m thinking that someone has to know how to use “the box.” There’s a great kurt vonnegut (rip) short story where a man accidently figures out a thought sequence which gives him telekinetic powers. (anyone know the title?) maybe people on the island are accidently triggering the box–kate’s horse/ jack’s dad. ben knows something of how to use it–maybe karl does too. this is why it’s so important to reeducate karl. ben seems awfuly concerned that john knows something ben doesn’t. after all he was allowed to go even though he killed michail…or did he? do they know he did?

    also–has anyone read one of my favorite books–borderliners by peter hoeg. it’s about kids who are either sick or amazingly advanced. the reader can decide. there is a scene that keeps haunting my thoughts about lost. a character swings on a rope dangerously close to the front of a speeding train. on this quick swing he can stretch his perception of time to infinity. odd book that has much discourse on the nature of time. makes me think of carrie’s situation.[/quote]

    Strangely that author Kurt Vonnegut died today.

  313. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”49988″]about the whole ben saying he doesnt lie thing. i think he was just saying to juliette that he didnt lie to her about her sister, and that he really did help cure her. he said i gave you my word.and he also gave jack his word too, and he was going to let jack leave, bowever due to certain circumstances that seem to out of bens control prevented him from leaving. i know this is probably confusing, but it makes sense to me lol. my head hurts. but bottom line, ben never said that he NEVER lies, just that he didnt to juliette about her sister.[/quote]

    This actually kinda started because we were discussing whether or not he did ever lie, i don’t think anyone said that he SAID he never lies. We were trying to figure out if, although, he is nasty-could his words be trusted.

  314. THE LOST KING says:

    WOW, hammer, ur right. i didnt think of Locke saying not much stays buried in this island, what that means i dunno, but its a good speculation.

    Something i dont get. Its a bit off topic, but Walt, his mum died out of the blue. Maybe this has something to do with Claire, if she hadnt been given the medicine from Juliet she would have died. Doe anyone think that this is connected to Walt’s mums out of the blue death??? because walt is special, maybe (bit far far-fetched) walt was conceived on the island (he said he moved a lot) , (he said he felt happy and at home on the island)and his mum died??

    also if you have forgotten, walt’s last words to Locke were ”dont open it mR lOCKE, DONT OPEN THE BOX”. leonard said this tu Hugo in the institute, we all thought it meant the hatch, could they each have there own box. and walt doesnt want locke to open cooper??

  315. AZ says:

    Longtime lurker, first time poster.

    My thoughts on Juliet’s motivation for joining the Losties camp at Ben’s wish: she must still complete her “assignment” to produce a live baby and mother that was concieved on the island. Ben has “given” her fresh subjects: all the Lostie women. I imagine that when they all meet up in a week, it will be to take all the ladies. So when Juliet can demonstrate she successfully completed her assignment, she thinks then Ben (or maybe even Jacob) will let her go home. She sees the Losties as more potential subjects for her research.

  316. Eric says:

    The Widmore pregnancy tests…

    If the Widmore tests had a sensor and transmitter and/or GPS in them, could they not detect something in the women who use them, something of interest that would allow Dharma/Mittelos/Widmore to arrange for these special women to board Flight 815?

  317. Becky says:

    I just finished reading a book about the Jonestown massacre and all the events leading up to it. The Others remind me a lot of the cult Peoples Temple. Jonestown was a horrible work camp but when asked, the people said they loved it there and loved “Father” Jim Jones, the sadistic “leader.” They were never to question him and he poisoned their minds with lies about their families and how everyone was out to get them. He made them think they could leave any time they wanted knowing full well they’d never try. When Ben questioned Juliette’s “faith” in Jacob, it reminded me of that. People who have God complexes and who convince you to do horrible things but make you think it’s your idea AND your choice! It’s just eerie, the similarities. Though the Others do not live in poverty, they certainly are not free and are coerced and manipulated to stay and be silent.

  318. THE LOST KING says:

    Does anyone think the others are in fact the Mittleos bioscience and they are all doctors are have a speciallity in subjects such as that? Maybe it would give the roots into explaining just who these others are. And we didnt see all those T.V’s in the flame did we.

    And also no one has answered this and iposted it about 30 times. DID ANYONE ELSE HEAR JULS TELL GOODWIN KARL DID THE X RAYS? meaning alex’s karl?

  319. avalanche says:

    someone at the lost easter eggs site had a screen cap of rachel’s chart apparently it says male and 199 lbs. they chocked it up to a production error. i do doubt this as they brought up juliet got the male mouse preggers. was rachel a transexual? any confirmation on the screen cap? any theories about how the procreation issue could be solved. will ben be a mommy?

  320. Who's Lost? says:

    Going back to “The Man from Tallahassee” episode, it seems like a nice connection has been made: Richard went to film “live” footage of Rachel and her son in Miami, Florida. It makes perfect sense that Richard then went to kidnap Cooper (Locke’s dad), if he is in fact, the “Man from Tallahassee”. Richard Alpert could have easily captured Cooper on the same mission, then got back to the island in time to show Locke who he had in the box.

    So I’m wondering: Did Ben know that Locke would be on the plane? Because Cooper was probably captured and brought to the island shortly after the crash.

    Also, the whole crash scene from the Others’ POV seemed very purposeful, in that they all had an inkling that the crash would happen. Too non-chalant for real life.

  321. Lone Mountain says:

    Regarding getting to Lost Island…. besides the submarine.

    Remember when the Dharma food and medical supplies parachuted down from an airdrop? How about a seaplane as alternate travel?

    Also, Desmond’s futile sail voyage away from the island that took him back to it, like some great attractor. Why? And how did that small plane from Africa heading to Europe with Eko’s brother and the hidden heroin get to the Pacific Ocean? I surely hope the writers team have a continuity editor to ensure that everything is eventually coherent.

  322. lindsey says:

    I think that Ben manipulated Juliette into staying by pretending the test results were her sister’s and saying if she stayed he would heal her cancer. I think Rachel was already healed and never got sick after the first remission that Juliette was with her for. SO of course she would be fine 3 yrs later because she never got sick again.

  323. losty says:

    Are we to assume that the reason that Ben wasn’t at the book club was because juliet hadn’t invited him or was it that he didn’t turn up because he had to make the plane crash. If you watch the episode again you will see that when Ben comes out of his house; he looks straight up to the sky at the plane when everyone else is looking around aimlessly.

    I am also loving the Juliet is a tranny theory! Maybe she used her own sperm to get her sister pregnant! Come to think of it she has got a big manly jaw. lol.

  324. Bobbi says:

    [quote comment=”50005″]Does anyone think the others are in fact the Mittleos bioscience and they are all doctors are have a speciallity in subjects such as that? Maybe it would give the roots into explaining just who these others are. And we didnt see all those T.V’s in the flame did we.

    And also no one has answered this and iposted it about 30 times. DID ANYONE ELSE HEAR JULS TELL GOODWIN KARL DID THE X RAYS? meaning alex’s karl?[/quote]

    Yes Lost King, we already discussed it here. She did say Carl developed the x-ray films for her. No one really found anything major about it, at least not yet.

  325. Ro-zgee says:

    Ok I’m wondering about this pregnancy thing. Why would someone (Sabine) who is living on the island agree to become pregnant and know full well that there’s a good chance that it will kill her? Why can’t they just go off island and have babies and then return? Ben forbids Juliette to try her control case -why wouldn’t he want to know if it would work?
    Is it because no-one can leave the island??
    Now I understand the previous poster who asked is there an instance that you can think of where we have proof that someone on the island left and then came back? I can’t think of one.
    It makes sense that a society that has no children will do just about anything to solve the problem of procreation. Even Ben said the sub gives the false hope of leaving (how did he say it?) And Juliette will never be allowed to leave – its not a question of her finding the solution to the problem.
    Another thing that’s been bothering me. Locke joined the others (or so we think) but he wouldn’t want to leave the island, so where exactly did he agree to go?

  326. Bobbi says:

    I would like to know how Rachel didn’t see Richard in the playground taping her. Even if he was discreet, with a cell phone cam, or something-she met him when Juliet reported to duty at Mittelos! Surely, she’d recognize the last guy that she saw her sister with! After all, Rachel must be thinking her sis has been missing for three years!

  327. Ro-zgee says:

    [quote comment=”50026″]I would like to know how Rachel didn’t see Richard in the playground taping her. Even if he was discreet, with a cell phone cam, or something-she met him when Juliet reported to duty at Mittelos! Surely, she’d recognize the last guy that she saw her sister with! After all, Rachel must be thinking her sis has been missing for three years![/quote]
    Someone in previous post suggested that the others may have access to some very advanced gps/satellite surveilance. That may be how they could go back and monitor Sawyers movements before the crash and see that he committed that murder. So maybe Richard wasn’t really there but watching her via live satellite.

  328. Ro-zgee says:

    ok so I realize that’s pretty far fetched!!! Nice close-up of the baby and all…

  329. john locke says:

    LOST KING- in comment 99 i posted my theory on carl.

  330. MEGAN says:

    LONE MOUNTAIN SAID: I surely hope the writers team have a continuity editor to ensure that everything is eventually coherent.

    amen. thank u all, it’s been great reading these comments. i haven’t been so fascinated by a show since the X-Flies.

  331. dragonfly says:

    Favorite line of this episode: “You’re gonna be amazed at how time flies once you’re there!” (what the one doctor said to Juliet before having her drink the orange juice)

    I have a crazy theory. Time on the island and time in the real world clearly do not pass at the same rates. Six months on the island translates to several years in the real world. This would explain why Ben doesn’t want people leaving the island, or why he is reluctant to leave the island himself, since they would age suddenly upon entrance into the real world. This would also explain why Walt (who will come back in season 4) would be significantly older. So the question is, how come Ethan and that other doctor (dont know his name) seem to be able to come and go from the island as they please defying any time differential?? So far, they are the only two people whom we have seen both on and off the island. Perhaps Ethan and the other doctor who brought Juliet are not “normal” people? Ever since the episode where Ethan kidnapped Claire and Charlie, and Jack got in a fist fight with Ethan, it seemed to me that Ethan had unnatural strength- not human. What do you all think??

  332. Jon says:

    i think that the island is like Atlantis. Nobody
    can find it because it is underwater. ” The magnetic
    contraption / computer, was setup to regulate the
    the portal to the island. The button wasn’t pushed
    and it teleports whatever is above it into the
    DHARMA realm. Seems like it’s happened more than once.
    They arrive on the island via submarine! I think it’s
    a self contained super natural enviorment…what do
    you think…feasable?

  333. riterahg says:

    Is anyone else becoming tired of Sayid using such restraint? Since he always recognizes the bad seed, when is he going to really cut loose and be the bad ass we know he can be?

  334. Tasha says:

    I looked on here…but thee are so many posts! Did anyone come up with anything about the symbol on the tree?

  335. lost chicka says:

    – i think the others plant the disease in people who get it
    – comment 109 – OMG!!!!! i REALLY hope sawyer don’t get sick next!!!!!!!
    – i think juls only said “claire’s the first to give birth on the island” cause ben won’t tell ne1 that alex isn’t really his & ppl who know won’t either
    – sawyer shot the guy the night before & got the plane ticket from aussie police & told to never come back — they (aussies) probably had cameras in dark allie
    – downtown is julls song & she listened 2 it before coming to island, patsy cline is what they play in kate’s scenes, & des’s was sing ur own kinda music
    – 119 LUV it!
    – i’ve never thought of that before, but the finales R allways showdons between losties & others (126)
    – mayb jack is in luv w/ jul after all the way 2 a man’s hart is through his stomach – gasp – his hart?
    – barb: whole entire lOZt theory in last weeks’ blog
    – 136 Toeknee: c ur point. i almost believed juls when she gave sawyer & sayid all that crap about getting evrybody in a circle soon as they got there & telling ’em what they’ve done.
    – adrienez (139) yah, sayid did it (torture) to protect his family. but y did sawyer start conning people if his dad killed himself & his mama after they got conned?
    – others WEREN”T watching losties before cause they ALL were surprised to C plane fallin out of sky & ben told mikhail 2 FIND information about losties AFTER fell from sky
    – juls didn’t want ben dead 2 take ovr, wanted ben dead 2 finally get off the island
    – comment 155, #3: ooooooooo! sounds like a good lost episode!
    – no, the whole island (well the losties neways) know she’s preggers member cuz jin want know if he tell ppl but sun tell him evry1 knw
    – comment 100, john locke: yeah, ben probably did practice that with her. they’re all ashamed of something they’ve done in the past so it would be an easy way to manipulate em. a bit to easy if u ask me.
    – hello!!!!!!! the guy’s a phsycic so he can see into the future & knows how evrything’s gonna happen!!!!!!!!!! Emily mcd
    – don’t u think that if goodwin & ethan have been gone for 60 days or whatever w/out talking to the others, that they (the others) would’ve already figured out there dead.
    – i love desmond & don’t think that he would turn. i love his story his is the only 1 that’s really sad. everyone else’s just, well, sucks.

  336. lost chicka says:

    – i like the whole time is different on island theory, but i think that the time travel theory about how they go back and alter everybody’s lives is bull.
    – even if time travel was possible (which i don’t think is the case) how the heck would rachel be able to be ben’s mom & juliette’s sister who seems to be about the same age as her?
    – the whole Ummoism thing is pretty cool. maybe the others are aliens in disguise. lol
    – rachel had cancer & really wanted a baby. im sure if u had cancer & your sister could help make ur biggest wish come true, you’d let her even if it would be dangerous.
    – ethan has obvioulsy been off & on the island cuz he knew the last 1/2 was bumpy & knew his way around the sub & seemed like it was an evry day thing.
    – maybe nobody else asked “why the hell did locke go with the others” cause they’ve all figured out that he’s really twisted.
    – i think, or at least hope, kate’s givin up on jack & goin with who she really wants – sawyer. they really have had a connection the whole show.
    – i agree w/ bobbi that the point of Juliette & goodwin bein in bed together – if not because she’s preggers – is because she’s really one of them now.
    – lost king (comment 216) love that idea. it makes scense. plus i agree that ben doesNOT want alex to get pregnant & isn’t willing to risk her.
    – i don’t think that everybody is softening up, i think it’s more like they’re all trying to be civil and learn to live together. cause when everybody wated to be mr. tough guy at the begining of the show all they did was beat each other up.

  337. lost chicka says:

    – i’ve wondered if they did anything to julliette while she was out in the submarine. do you think that they put some type of implant in her so if she ever doesn’t do what they want & ben can’t manipulate her all they have to do is say “here’s the deal. while u were out in the sub, we put an implant in u. now either b a good girl & do what we say or get ready to die.”? seems like something very otherly.
    – sawyer & kate have been stuck with the others for a couple of weeks, don’t u think that u might be a little broke down spiritually especially if u just went through a plane crash, ur stuck on a magic island, wierd things keep happening, etc.?
    – sayid & sawyer backed down when they were about to hopefully beat the crap outa julls cause they are both really ahsamed of their pasts & that’s how she’s gonna manipulate everybody
    – if the sub is just a friggin ilusion how the hel did juliette get there?!???!?!?!??!
    – i don’t know if des will wind up dying trying to save charlie, cause then they’d have to kill off 2 big characters ( i love both the former druggie & the guy who thinks he’s not good enough).
    – i REALLY doubt that kate is going to be preggnat. 1) theyd have to kill off 1 fo main characters = angry fans 2) even though there’s nothin wrong with bein preggers, they can’t make kate pregnat.
    – i say the very last episode of lost they find out that they were all casted to be on the ultimate survivor & the teams were others vs. 815, but it spun way out of control. only problem was the ratings were to good for them to end the season so they made it last a little longer. lol. no, i really hope it’s better than that! though it would be a really big twist…
    – i think jack might be trying to figure out wich side he wants to be on & doesn’t want to be condemned on either side so he’s playing it safe for now but will ultimately decide to hang out with the others.

  338. Other 218 says:

    You will never see a Tsunami scene in LOST. ABC & Disney realize that this was an extreme event where one quarter to one third of a million (real) people LOST their lives – with only a few degrees of separation – about 2 billion world citizens would take some offense at the reference. Besides, the actual tsunami was off the SW coast of Sumatra, in the Indian Ocean, and did no damage in the South Central Pacific Ocean, where our island is located – approx 5-6 THOUSAND miles away!

  339. lost chicka says:

    – i think the magic of the others is that even though u know that they r evil, lying, manipulating, freaky people u want to get to know them & figure out why the hell they r who they r – which is y the losties r bein so damn stupid.
    – in Enter 77 when sayid gets fooled by the “resturaunt owner” it could be 1) a learnin experience, 2) to prove to us sayid isn’t alwas right, 3) karma, 4) he trusted him cause the man was Iraqi like him & said that they were in the same boat basically, 5) what goes around comes around
    – i think if & when the others start usin sun & possibly kate as guinea pigs it’ll prove how evil they really are (just incase keepin jack, sawyer, & kate in a zoo wan’t enough proof for ya)
    – how does a plane break in mid air & practically everyone survive? simple: they’re on a magic island full of polar bears, crazy people, smokeys, hatches & mad scientists
    – that would make perfect sense hammer that ben would want sayid killed. like i’ve said what goes around comes around plus the whole show is abut revenge & redemption
    – i know this should probably be posted on a differet blog but y the hell did they tell us that Claire & jack have the same daddy? nobody’s gonna know unless jack or one of the others pulls out a picture of Christian or they break the news to claire & jack that they’re brother & sister.
    – if evry1 who slept together on the island got preggers, ana lucia could’ve been preggers. they probably would’ve put analucia on the list to for mike to bring back so every1 got a little mating partner & nobody got left out.
    – if ethan came back alive don’t u think he would’ve gotten his revenge by now? or maybe it’s happening but des keeps taperin w/ it?
    – i sorta like the idea that ben & juliette were together for a while. don’t know if it’s true, but it would b a coolstoryline.
    – mayb what lLocke ment when he sid “nothing stays barried on this island” was more of a refernce to your past. everyone wants to bury their past on the island & say it never happened now, but it’ll come back out.
    – lost king: omg! i almost forgot that! walt did say “don’t open the box” to locke! omg!!!!!!!!!! i’m gettin chils!
    – Ben probably told Richard to bring back cooper as soon as they found more info about Locke.
    – i think that the others didn’t seem to be to freaked out about the plane breakin cause they’ve been throug the type of thing before.
    – i thought that ecko’s brothers & co were taking the drugs to america, but somebody else said they were takin em to europe.
    – maybe ben looked out his window first before going outside. actually, isn’t kinda wierd that they all run outside before looking out the window? i mean, if there’s like an earthquake & loud noises, don’t u think u’ll look out the window to check it out BEFORE going outside, especially if ur on a magic island?
    – mayb karl was in the cage cause ben was so pissed off about getting cancer & is convinved that karl screwed it up.
    – since we now know for sure that Juliette’s a plant, i’m convinced that Locke & others went to the hatch where they kept Claire. And even though it’s pretty obvious, nobody’s gonna put togetehr juliete = fertility doctor, sun = preggers, others = evil — evil + fertility doctor + preggers= experiments on sun by evil others & juliete
    – where did u hear walt’s comin back in sea. 4 & how the hell would he be able to get there? oh yah, he’s “Spceial”.
    – Even though sayid is a bad ass torturer we also know he is a romantic good guy. Right now he’s trying to be the good guy but as we all know (or at least hope) he’s gonna wind up being the bad ass torturer with julls.

  340. THE LOST KING says:

    I wonder what Juliet is actually up too? It will not take 7 days to help Claire, i think she has to lure Jack into a false sense of security and take charge of the losties

  341. get lost says:

    [quote comment=”49588″]Juliet was holding a Stephen King book when she entered the communications center with Ben. Does anyone know which book she was reading, it may provide a clue to the Lost island/phenomena[/quote]

    She was carrying “Carrie”. Also, when Juliette went over to Ben’s cabin with the X-Ray of Ben’s tumor, Ben said “I was just finishing Carrie; I am not sure why you chose it. It is so depressing”

  342. get lost says:

    [quote comment=”49597″]Did anyone notice specifically what was playing on the satellite tv screens when they were showing news of the crash? Is it just my imagination, or did a screen on the left show a picture of Sun???? If so, would there be any significance as to why she was singled out????[/quote]

    Upon a second viewing of the episode, I think that the persons on the TV’s were just news casters. There were news tickers on the bottoms of the screen. Patchy was trying to get information on the Losties plane

  343. get lost says:

    [quote comment=”49613″]Got a question… the song “Downtown” has that played before in other lost episodes? Or am I getting my songs mixed up. I know it was playing in the car when Juliet was dropped off… but has it popped up anywhere else?[/quote]

    Last season when they first showed the Others little town, they showed the same scene of Juliette getting ready for the book club, the only difference this time was that the song played over the dialog.

  344. chewap says:

    i now i’m wrong 🙂 anyway:

    we know that the others have a “box”. it shows everthing you imagine. in every episode we have a flashback, right…everyone is thinking about the bad things in his life…can it be that the box is showing ben all the things that the losties imagine? jack thinks about his father..boom, there he is. charlie thinks about the drugs…boom 😉

    anyway great ep!!!

  345. THE LOST KING says:

    i have something to ask. Why did Goodwin and Ethan need to get lists if Ben and Mikhail were already getting info on all the passengers??

    SOME ONE PLEASE ANSWER

  346. THE LOST KING says:

    i have something to ask. Why did Goodwin and Ethan need to get lists if Ben and Mikhail were already getting info on all the passengers??

    SOME ONE PLEASE ANSWER THIS

    its been bothering me all day

  347. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50088″]i now i’m wrong 🙂 anyway:

    we know that the others have a “box”. it shows everthing you imagine. in every episode we have a flashback, right…everyone is thinking about the bad things in his life…can it be that the box is showing ben all the things that the losties imagine? jack thinks about his father..boom, there he is. charlie thinks about the drugs…boom 😉

    anyway great ep!!![/quote]

    erm its been confirmed by Damon and Carlton that the box idea was just a metaphor. I think Ben was trying to tell Locke that if he just stopped and thought about things he could open the box, but it was just purely a metaphor, and all those things like Jack’s dad, well i think its the smokey monster. on the lockedown map somewhere it says Cerbus. Now thats a part of the brain that sees things in your past or something like that.

    the lost king

  348. THE LOST KING says:

    1-I THINK THE TIME DIFFERENCE ON THE ISLAND AND OFF THE ISLAND BECUASE BEN SAYS THAT THE VIDEO FEED IN THE PARK WAS LIVE AND THE DATE WAS SEP 22 2004. SO ITS THE SAME TIME DIFFERENCE.

    2-I THINK THAT AFTER THE PURGE THE OTHERS TOOK THE PALA FERRY AND BARRACKS FROM DHARMA, AND ARE GOING BACK TO WHEREVER THEY WERE BEFORE THE INITIATIVE CAME.

    3-ANSWER THIS, WHO CURES THE CANCER, BEN OR JACOB. IT WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING.

    4-JULIAN IS THE MALE VERSION OF JULIET. JUST THOUGHT IT WAS WORTH MENTIONING.

    5-BEN BELIEVES HE HAS BEEN A GREAT LEADER TO THE OTHERS AND ISNT HAPPY THAT HE IS BEING CALLED A LIAR WHEN HE FULL WELL KNOWS HE DIDNT LIE, AND WHAT HAS JULIET BEEN DOING FOR 2 AND HALF YEARS AFTER RACHAEL WAS CURED. IF NO MORE WOMEN ARE GOING TO GET PREGNANT WHY IS SHE STILL THERE?? AND WHY WONT BEN LET ANYONE OFF THE ISLAND (WOMEN ESPECIALLY)

    6-WASNT THIS THE SECOND BEST EPISODE THE SEASON. LOOSING OUT TO TMFT ???? OPINION THAT

  349. chewap says:

    [quote comment=”50093″][quote comment=”50088″]i now i’m wrong 🙂 anyway:

    we know that the others have a “box”. it shows everthing you imagine. in every episode we have a flashback, right…everyone is thinking about the bad things in his life…can it be that the box is showing ben all the things that the losties imagine? jack thinks about his father..boom, there he is. charlie thinks about the drugs…boom 😉

    anyway great ep!!![/quote]

    erm its been confirmed by Damon and Carlton that the box idea was just a metaphor. I think Ben was trying to tell Locke that if he just stopped and thought about things he could open the box, but it was just purely a metaphor, and all those things like Jack’s dad, well i think its the smokey monster. on the lockedown map somewhere it says Cerbus. Now thats a part of the brain that sees things in your past or something like that.

    the lost king[/quote]

    so somkey is the answer to the question: how do they know everything about them…maybe the “metaphor” is the answer…i think that we will know much more when we find out what the box really is…

  350. get lost says:

    [quote comment=”49647″]
    Interesting that Ben cured Rachel’s cancer (with help from Jacob), brought down the airliner and showed Juliet that he was not a lier (also with Jacob’s help), and the mere mention of his name (Jacob”s) stopped Juliet from her rage and despair. She must know Jacob, so when will we see Jacob?[/quote]

    It was my understanding that the plane was taken off course and crashed because of Desmond’s button pressing screw up when he was busy following the original button presser to the boat. When Locke and Desmond decided to not press the button, while they were waiting for the time to run out, Desmond checked the print out log for the button and realized that his near button pressing misshap caused the crash, he changed his mind about letting time run out, and then Locke broke the old school Apple.

  351. chewap says:

    [quote comment=”50099″][quote comment=”49647″]
    Interesting that Ben cured Rachel’s cancer (with help from Jacob), brought down the airliner and showed Juliet that he was not a lier (also with Jacob’s help), and the mere mention of his name (Jacob”s) stopped Juliet from her rage and despair. She must know Jacob, so when will we see Jacob?[/quote]

    It was my understanding that the plane was taken off course and crashed because of Desmond’s button pressing screw up when he was busy following the original button presser to the boat. When Locke and Desmond decided to not press the button, while they were waiting for the time to run out, Desmond checked the print out log for the button and realized that his near button pressing misshap caused the crash, he changed his mind about letting time run out, and then Locke broke the old school Apple.[/quote]

    damon said that the button didn’t cause the plane crashing to the island…

  352. get lost says:

    [quote comment=”49692″]I thought this was a great episode!! I knew Juliet was evil! The gulping the drugged oj and going into the unknown to do fertility experiments…she’s like an evil scientist lady!

    I am pretty sure that song “Downtown” was playing on an old record player in the hatch that John found (don’t remember the name) when we first met Desmond and saw him get up and ride the stationary bike.

    I also had the thought of whether character’s names have any significance to what part they play in the story…so I looked some up in my Baby Name book. Benjamin means son of the right hand…hello! Jacob means supplanter, which means “one who wrongfully or illegally seizes and holds the place of another”. Jacob in the Bible was the twin son (Esau) of Isaac son of Abraham. Jacob had 12 sons “who became progenites of the 12 tribes of Israel.” In the Bible the twin sons Jacob and Esau were Isaac’s sons and Jacob (the bad twin)tricked his old blind father into giving him the blessing meant for the older twin(Esau)as the oldest son.

    On Lostpedia Troup’s book is called “Bad Twin” and is supposed to have something to do with the twin Widmores…Penny’s uncles? Seems like some kind of connection.[/quote]

    The song that was playing before Locke, and Desmond’s initial meeting was “Make your own kind of music” -Mamma Cass

    My question is: Why is all of the music on the island from the 70’s yet everything Darma seems to to be 60’s?

  353. get lost says:

    [quote comment=”50104″][quote comment=”49692″]I thought this was a great episode!! I knew Juliet was evil! The gulping the drugged oj and going into the unknown to do fertility experiments…she’s like an evil scientist lady!

    I am pretty sure that song “Downtown” was playing on an old record player in the hatch that John found (don’t remember the name) when we first met Desmond and saw him get up and ride the stationary bike.

    I also had the thought of whether character’s names have any significance to what part they play in the story…so I looked some up in my Baby Name book. Benjamin means son of the right hand…hello! Jacob means supplanter, which means “one who wrongfully or illegally seizes and holds the place of another”. Jacob in the Bible was the twin son (Esau) of Isaac son of Abraham. Jacob had 12 sons “who became progenites of the 12 tribes of Israel.” In the Bible the twin sons Jacob and Esau were Isaac’s sons and Jacob (the bad twin)tricked his old blind father into giving him the blessing meant for the older twin(Esau)as the oldest son.

    On Lostpedia Troup’s book is called “Bad Twin” and is supposed to have something to do with the twin Widmores…Penny’s uncles? Seems like some kind of connection.[/quote]

    The song that was playing before Locke, and Desmond’s initial meeting was “Make your own kind of music” -Mamma Cass

    My question is: Why is all of the music on the island from the 70’s yet everything Darma seems to to be 60’s?[/quote]

    OOps I guess the music fits with the Darma stuff.

  354. Tina says:

    [quote]

    erm its been confirmed by Damon and Carlton that the box idea was just a metaphor. I think Ben was trying to tell Locke that if he just stopped and thought about things he could open the box, but it was just purely a metaphor, and all those things like Jack’s dad, well i think its the smokey monster. on the lockedown map somewhere it says Cerbus. Now thats a part of the brain that sees things in your past or something like that.

    the lost king[/quote]

    Cerberus was also the name of the three headed dog that guarded the realm of the dead in Greek mythology-funny how if the Smoke monster is the Cerberus that is referred to on the map and the manifestations on the island that it keeps choosing people who are supposed to be dead and appearing to others right before they die…

  355. THE LOST KING says:

    so somkey is the answer to the question: how do they know everything about them

    i am guessing that the others have connections in the real world and Mikhail got all the info on them for Ben like he asked.

    …maybe the “metaphor” is the answer…i think that we will know much more when we find out what the box really is…[/quote]

    well i think you were kinda right earlier. The box is different every flashback they have. In lockedown episode Locke lost Helen, and in the box that episode im guessing was Helen. like in ep 1 season 3 in jack’s box was the guy who sarah was with (unless in a future ep he finds out) but i dont actually think there is this box that generates the thing they want. and yes the smoke is the answer i think, whenever eko sees yemii or someone, he usually always sees the smoke. im guessing the smokey monster is the answer.

    take another look at the blast door map. Radzinski or Kelvin wrote where Cerbus goes.

  356. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50108″][quote]

    erm its been confirmed by Damon and Carlton that the box idea was just a metaphor. I think Ben was trying to tell Locke that if he just stopped and thought about things he could open the box, but it was just purely a metaphor, and all those things like Jack’s dad, well i think its the smokey monster. on the lockedown map somewhere it says Cerbus. Now thats a part of the brain that sees things in your past or something like that.

    the lost king[/quote]

    Cerberus was also the name of the three headed dog that guarded the realm of the dead in Greek mythology-funny how if the Smoke monster is the Cerberus that is referred to on the map and the manifestations on the island that it keeps choosing people who are supposed to be dead and appearing to others right before they die…[/quote]

    wow, i just realised that your right about the 3 headed dog. Im guessing thanks to this blog we have solved the mystery of smokey

  357. get lost says:

    [quote comment=”49755″]First of all, I’m freakin’ speechless. Was that NOT the greatest episode this season?! I mean, it answered SO many questions! God, it was awesome! A couple of things I’ve been thinking about since last night and a few things I found rummaging around on the internet this morning:

    1. They made sure that we saw that the date was September 22, 2004. Ben even made a point to emphasize that it was live and real time. The tsunami that rocked Thailand happened on December 26, 2004. People are placing bets that the writers of Lost are going to incorporate this somehow in the storyline. Perhaps another “incident?” Maybe some electromagnetic anomaly that causes the tsunami?

    2. Remember when Juliet and Jack are walking behind everyone else on the way back to the beach? She tells Jack that she drugged Kate into the jungle and handcuffed herself to her. Based solely on Jack’s reaction to that news, I think he already knew what she did. He wasn’t surprised or upset at all. So, I think, to some degree, that Jack is in on some of it. I don’t think he knew about Claire, though. Do you think this could be the start of Jack turning? He wants off the island. To what extent would he go to get off? As far as Juliet is obviously willing to go?

    3. If the Others want pregnant women, then doesn’t it seem obvious that they wanted Kate and Sawyer to hook up, maybe going as far as to set up some mind game to encourage them to get it on (i.e. the cages)? Is Kate pregnant? Since we know that Jin is sterile, how did Sun get preggers? Could Ana Lucia have been pregnant?

    4. There’s obviously some sort of religious divinity involved it seems on the island. Ben mentions Jacob to Juliet and speaks to her about him like she should never question her faith in Jacob. Clearly they have the ability to cure cancer. Is this magic? Is this some form of spiritual healing? Do they use cancer as a weapon? It seems like they were able to control Rachel’s cancer (Juliet’s sister). When they needed Juliet to stay on the island, the cancer came back with a promise from Ben that they could heal her. Sound familiar? Isn’t that just what they do to the people back on the beach? They cause a problem in Claire just so Juliet can come and fix it and be the hero. But then why does Ben have cancer? Ben’s cancer seems to defy not only the healing properties of the island but the faith we’re all supposed to have in this Jacob dude.

    5. Why was Juliet drugged to get to the island? Ethan makes a point to tell her that the “last leg of the trip” can be a little rough, yet we are led to believe that the last leg is the part in the submarine. Why would she need to be drugged to ride in a submarine? It’s not like she’s going to remember that they turned left at the starfish or hung a hard right at the coral reef. My point is that something’s missing in this trip. Did they do some sort of time travel? Or is all of this drugging and submarine business just to throw you off the fact that they’re really not as far from home as they may suspect? What if this island is just some big science experiment on an island off the coast of California? I hope not, but I’m just saying…

    6. What if three years in our time is only 6 months on the island? In other words, we know that our survivors have only been on the island for approx. 3 months, but what if it has only been a couple of days in the real world? We know that time works differently on the island than in the real world. I was thinking that maybe the island is some sort of cancer refuge for rich people that want to prolong their life expectancy, but Rachel debunks this hypothesis because she was cured of cancer OFF the island. So, people don’t have to be on the island to be saved. But I watched this episode twice last night, and Ben made a point to tell Juliet when he was showing her the video footage of her sister that this is “REAL TIME,” which means it could be inferred that time is different on the island. “Semantics,” as John Locke would say…

    7. Think back to the fortune teller that insisted Claire get on the plane to California to adopt her baby. Remember he said, “It HAS to be THIS plane.” Is he involved with Mittelos? Somehow he knows the right people involved to tip them off about Claire. Clearly he was paid to coerce her into boarding the plane. Kind of dirty. But clearly Mittelos is seriously funded by someone or something. They have the capability to contact people on the main land, pay for detectives, submarines, doctors’ salaries, etc. Is this a company owned and funded by Penelope’s father? Didn’t it seem like Ben knew that Claire was on the plane? Was the plane crash really an accident? Was it really Desmond’s fault or did the Others select precisely who they wanted and arranged it all to appear like an accident? I mean, imagine for a moment that all of this was on purpose and not at all accidental. Can you imagine how much money and resources it would take to pull off something like this? You would have to have detectives out and about involving themselves in all of these people’s lives way before the accident to get them all on the plane to begin with. Which makes me think that the man who told Sawyer that his father was in Australia could’ve been involved, the lady that was in the hospital with Hurley and gave Desmond the boat could’ve been involved, the fortune teller got Claire on the plane, Christian (himself) got Ana Lucia to go to Australia, as well as Jack to come get him. Was the accident that rendered Claire’s mother caused by someone involved with Mittelos? They killed Juliet’s ex-husband, why wouldn’t they kill Claire’s mother? And let’s not forget that Christian offered Claire another solution for her mother and someone at the hospital all the way in Australia knew to contact him. (Mark my words: Christian has something to do with the big picture, people.) Was Walt’s mother’s sudden and unexpected death really a blood infection or caused to get Michael down to Australia to p/u Walt and board the Oceanic Flight 815 to get home?

    8.

    Did you remember that Goodwin, Juliet’s island fling, was the “Ethan” sent to the other part of the plane wreckage with Ana Lucia? Eko killed him, remember? Perhaps Juliet has been sent to the island to find out what happened to Ethan and Goodwin. She seemed perplexed when Hurley showed her where Ethan was buried. Her whole goal could be to try to recover the missing Others and keep an eye on the potential new mothers (Sun and now maybe Kate).[/quote]

    Goodwin was impaled in a stick by Ana Lucia. I don’t know if it was the color on my TV or the shirt Goodwin was wearing but to me it looked like he bled purple.

  358. GuttahMan says:

    Couple Things….

    The song “downtown” was playing in the first episode of the 3rd season, when we first saw where the “others” live. When Juliette played it in this last episode, they were one in the same, meaning she was playing the song right before her book club…that scene just reverted back to the first episode.

    The “others” didnt know the plane was comming, they would have been more prepared otherwise. The fact that Juliette knows Sawyer killed a man the night before he boarded the plan doenst mean as much as you guys make it out to be…They’ve been on the Island for months now and we all know the “others” have contact with the outside world…for all we know Sawyer could be a wanted man in Australia…someone could have ratted him out. so it wouldnt be hard to figure it out eventually.

    As far as Jack is concerned….it might be possible that him and Juliette are actually working together for Ben…Juliette basically told Jack that she gassed Kate, took her into the jungle and handcuffed herself to her just to make Kate think they were in it together…Jack didnt say anything about it…Think about it, your stuck on an island eating nothing but fruits and veggies, sleeping on a beach for months…all of a sudden you get taken to another part of the island where u get a bed, hot food, showers and electricity…why would he want to go back to the beach…his chances of getting off of the island are slim to none, so why not make the best of it? Maybe Jack became one of the “others” and is working with Juliette to infiltrate the “losties” camp….

    Just a theory or two

  359. Tasha says:

    I am not really sure about everyone who is saying that Walt said not to open the “box.” I am pretty sure he said, not to open that “thing.” I may be wrong but I have seen that episode about 50 times.

    Also there seems to be a lot of talk about boxes. I remember in one episode the French lady had a box. I
    think Sayid opened it. It was a music box given to her by her husband I think. Could that be some kind of connection?

    I agree that Smokey could be Cerberus. And if you look at the parents…Typhon in particular sounded like the “Hissing of a hundred snakes and roaring of a hundred lions.” I posted that last week I think. Sorry to bring it up again.

  360. Cindy says:

    As far as Ben “curing” juliette’s sister’s cancer, I wonder if Ben was just manipulating Juliette’s mind and the cancer didn’t even come back in the first place. So – it was easy to show the sister with Julian, her healthy son, to Juliette because she’s been healthy ever since. I think more than Ben having physical powers he often is just manipulating the other people. Like I still believe that John Locke’s father is in on the whole deal and he was not captured. Ben was manipulating John so he would join them. I also think that Christian Shepperd is alive and kicking and might be “jacob” – just a thought. Seems to be such a central character.

  361. Tasha says:

    Also, Ben told Jules that he had been looking for her all morning. How did Richard know she would be at that park? He walks in and says get him at the park. If time changes, just because the paper said Sept.22…couldn’t that have been filmed before hand? What if it took a day or two for the plane to even crash? Maybe everyone on plane was drugged and when they drank things and fell asleep. The plane landed in God knows where. Then they took everyone off the plane and staged the whole thing. Maybe Ben acted all surprised but maybe this was all a plan. Even talking to Patchy. Even telling Ethan and Goodwin to get lists of everyone. Getting lists doesn’t make a lot of sense. Goodwin seemed to be with the taillies for awhile. When did he have time to go back to the Others. Plus Ben seemed like he knew someone would be pregnant on he plane. Claire’s psychic was a con artist. He wanted her there. Also Jacob is calling the shots. He probably planned this.

    The way Ben talked about Jacob to Julliet seemed like she knew him. Not only knew him but had A LOT of faith in him. The look in her eyes when Ben asked her…”Don’t you have faith in him?” looked as if she had a ton of faith in this person. Like someone who would have faith in God.

  362. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”50123″]I am not really sure about everyone who is saying that Walt said not to open the “box.” I am pretty sure he said, not to open that “thing.” I may be wrong but I have seen that episode about 50 times.

    Also there seems to be a lot of talk about boxes. I remember in one episode the French lady had a box. I
    think Sayid opened it. It was a music box given to her by her husband I think. Could that be some kind of connection?

    I agree that Smokey could be Cerberus. And if you look at the parents…Typhon in particular sounded like the “Hissing of a hundred snakes and roaring of a hundred lions.” I posted that last week I think. Sorry to bring it up again.[/quote]
    ____________________
    Tasha:
    D & C have already told us that the “box” is simply a metaphor for whatever on the island allows for the manifestations of ones deepest desires. When Benry refers to the “magic box” he is trying to give Locke a visual idea of the power of the island. I get what you’re saying about the different refernces to boxes throughout the series, but I doubt there is any real connection there. Rousseau had a music box that her husband Robert had given her that stopped working, Sayid repaired it for her and that action helped establish the trust the two share.

    What are you referring to when you say “walt said not to open the box or it”. I do’t recal that, could you clarify? I bet Walt experienced or channelled the power of the “box” on the island (polar bears, the constant backgammon winning, learning knife throwing easily and the bird). Perhaps that is why the Others kidnapped Walt initially, to use him as a channel for the power of the island’s manifestations OR maybe he acted like a psychic battery and charged up the powers. It seemed like things became even more weird after he was kidnapped…who knows.

    As far as Smokey=Cerberus goes, not totally sure. If Smokey serves as the security system on the island, then it totally makes sense that the writers would choose a name like Cerberus to refer to it especially if part of that systme involved manifesting dead people. It also got me thinking about the monster in Egyptian mythology that would eat the hearts of the dead if they didn’t weigh less than the feather on the eternal scales of judgement. If the heart was heavier than the feather then that meant the person hadn’t lived a good life and they were doomed to the judgement of having their heart devoured by…and the name of the thing I escapes me right now, but it might have been something like Cerberus. Perhaps that ties into the way Ecko and Boone were killed. So maybe when Smokey scanned Juliet in the jungle, it was doing a type of “feather test” measuring her heart to see it it should be devoured. For some reason, she weighed lighter and was spared even though she killed Pickett. What I’m thinking is that Smokey is controlled to some degree by whatever morality the Others follow because according to the Losties, Juliet’s murder of Picket was precisely that murder and would cause her “heart” to heavy and eventually devoured.

    any thoughts?

  363. THE LOST KING says:

    WELL LETS JUST LUCK AT WALT’S POWERS FOR A MOMENT.

    we know he DIDNT bring the polar bears to life because of the dharma vid made 20 year a go showing them.

    we know in the area he lived where he looked at the book of birds and then one died that lots of birds lived around there.

    we know possibly sayid and shannon had walt on there mind when he kept popping up and we have worked out that cerebus. So what exactly is walt’s powers?

    well, what if he can time travel like Des. waht if he travelled to the island and saw the bears, so he read up about them in Hugo’s comic.

    and he also travelled to see the bird die and then read up on those birds and then it died.

    andthe otherswanted walt because of these powers. Maybe because he is a child they wanted him anyway but exhibited strange powers to ethan.

    and he time travelled to see the hatch implode and thought his friend mr locke would die from it, so he warned locke.

    does anyone think this is possible?

  364. Meg says:

    [quote comment=”50112″]so somkey is the answer to the question: how do they know everything about them

    i am guessing that the others have connections in the real world and Mikhail got all the info on them for Ben like he asked.

    …maybe the “metaphor” is the answer…i think that we will know much more when we find out what the box really is…[/quote]

    well i think you were kinda right earlier. The box is different every flashback they have. In lockedown episode Locke lost Helen, and in the box that episode im guessing was Helen. like in ep 1 season 3 in jack’s box was the guy who sarah was with (unless in a future ep he finds out) but i dont actually think there is this box that generates the thing they want. and yes the smoke is the answer i think, whenever eko sees yemii or someone, he usually always sees the smoke. im guessing the smokey monster is the answer.

    take another look at the blast door map. Radzinski or Kelvin wrote where Cerbus goes.[/quote]
    No, I just looked it up on lostpedia, and it definatly says cerberus, which I believe is the dog from hades. This has been discussed many times on this site, and I thought everyone already agreed on the fact that its the three headed dog.

  365. Meg says:

    sorry, I just read your post after the one I quoted. You already figured that out.

  366. THE LOST KING says:

    ____________________
    Tasha:
    D & C have already told us that the “box” is simply a metaphor for whatever on the island allows for the manifestations of ones deepest desires. When Benry refers to the “magic box” he is trying to give Locke a visual idea of the power of the island. I get what you’re saying about the different refernces to boxes throughout the series, but I doubt there is any real connection there. Rousseau had a music box that her husband Robert had given her that stopped working, Sayid repaired it for her and that action helped establish the trust the two share.

    What are you referring to when you say “walt said not to open the box or it”. I do’t recal that, could you clarify? I bet Walt experienced or channelled the power of the “box” on the island (polar bears, the constant backgammon winning, learning knife throwing easily and the bird). Perhaps that is why the Others kidnapped Walt initially, to use him as a channel for the power of the island’s manifestations OR maybe he acted like a psychic battery and charged up the powers. It seemed like things became even more weird after he was kidnapped…who knows.

    As far as Smokey=Cerberus goes, not totally sure. If Smokey serves as the security system on the island, then it totally makes sense that the writers would choose a name like Cerberus to refer to it especially if part of that systme involved manifesting dead people. It also got me thinking about the monster in Egyptian mythology that would eat the hearts of the dead if they didn’t weigh less than the feather on the eternal scales of judgement. If the heart was heavier than the feather then that meant the person hadn’t lived a good life and they were doomed to the judgement of having their heart devoured by…and the name of the thing I escapes me right now, but it might have been something like Cerberus. Perhaps that ties into the way Ecko and Boone were killed. So maybe when Smokey scanned Juliet in the jungle, it was doing a type of “feather test” measuring her heart to see it it should be devoured. For some reason, she weighed lighter and was spared even though she killed Pickett. What I’m thinking is that Smokey is controlled to some degree by whatever morality the Others follow because according to the Losties, Juliet’s murder of Picket was precisely that murder and would cause her “heart” to heavy and eventually devoured.

    any thoughts?[/quote]

    well i TOTALLY 100% AGREE with you on the box. Its just a metaphor to what the person most deeply wants. And Cerebus, well i think using the scales to determine heaven or hell isnt the best idea. Because like we have heard many times we have people from around the world. French, U.S, BRITS,Nigerians,iraqi’s,scotts,koreans and australians and brazilians and many more, they all have diffrent religions, some which do NOT believe in heaven and hell, aand if the answer was the scales then there would be a crisis of arguemnts like with big brother racism row. I like the idea, but i think its good for the directors to have an answer concerning the CORRECT religion, if you get what i mean.

  367. Toeknee says:

    RE: Ben and lying….

    I do believe Ben lies quite frequently. Just because he was so adamant when he told Juliet that doesn’t lie, doesn’t mean that he doesn’t lie. A liar isn’t going to admit to lying. So he was lying when he said he doesn’t lie. Lying goes hand-in-hand with his M.O. of manipulating people. And this leads me to another thought….

    Earlier on this thread, people were talking about the significance of Ben’s last name, “Linus”. Could it be that this name is telling us he’s a liar- the first syllable is “Li-“, pronounced just like “lie”. Perhaps Linus is a compacted version of “Lyin’ (to) us”?

  368. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50042″]Is anyone else becoming tired of Sayid using such restraint? Since he always recognizes the bad seed, when is he going to really cut loose and be the bad ass we know he can be?[/quote]
    I think this is intended to be a sign of growth. His flashbacks in “Enter 77” were related to this – he regrets the fact that he has tortured people, and women in particular. In “One of Us”, Sawyer suggests Sayid torture Juliet, and Sayid says he doesn’t do that anymore. I agree that I’d love to see him torture one of the Others (I want answers myself!), but I accept that it’s part of his character to not want to torture people.

  369. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”50141″]RE: Ben and lying….

    I do believe Ben lies quite frequently. Just because he was so adamant when he told Juliet that doesn’t lie, doesn’t mean that he doesn’t lie. A liar isn’t going to admit to lying. So he was lying when he said he doesn’t lie. Lying goes hand-in-hand with his M.O. of manipulating people. And this leads me to another thought….

    Earlier on this thread, people were talking about the significance of Ben’s last name, “Linus”. Could it be that this name is telling us he’s a liar- the first syllable is “Li-“, pronounced just like “lie”. Perhaps Linus is a compacted version of “Lyin’ (to) us”?[/quote]
    Toeknee – First you’ve proven on here to be very reliable and sensible, so I do trust what you’re saying.

    However, I asked for one example of Ben Linus being proved to have lied, and no one has been able to give me a lie yet. Even in the flashbacks, where they’ve shown schemes that he and others have done. He hasn’t lied.

    He chooses his words carefully, but at least for the time being, I’m going to take everything he says literally and believe it completely.

  370. Tasha says:

    Tina-

    I was referring to early posts on this thread.

    But the scene was right before they left the island. Locke grabs Walt’s arm and I guess Walt feels or sees something. Anyway, he warns Locke not to open that “thing.” I am just pretty sure he didn’t say “box”. I could go watch it though….Oh and Walt was referring to the Hatch I think.

  371. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50141″]RE: Ben and lying….

    I do believe Ben lies quite frequently. Just because he was so adamant when he told Juliet that doesn’t lie, doesn’t mean that he doesn’t lie. A liar isn’t going to admit to lying. So he was lying when he said he doesn’t lie. Lying goes hand-in-hand with his M.O. of manipulating people. And this leads me to another thought….

    Earlier on this thread, people were talking about the significance of Ben’s last name, “Linus”. Could it be that this name is telling us he’s a liar- the first syllable is “Li-“, pronounced just like “lie”. Perhaps Linus is a compacted version of “Lyin’ (to) us”?[/quote]

    erm, well i think this whole Ben doesnt lie thing is being took way to seriousley. I think he was just a bit pissed that he had took the time to cure Rachael, and Juliet was calling him a liar

    now a lot of this box thing is being talked about

    ep 11 season 2 the hunting party. i was watching it earlier and friendly says ”opening doors that arent yours to open” and looks directly at Locke. Now i gathered this meant the hatch, but if the others have limited knowledge about it and dharma were still working there, how is it the others door?

  372. THE LOST KING says:

    also who thinks the post of mine about walts powers could be true? its post 363

    can i have some feed back on that becasue i have been thinkin about that for a while

  373. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50147″]
    Toeknee – First you’ve proven on here to be very reliable and sensible, so I do trust what you’re saying.

    However, I asked for one example of Ben Linus being proved to have lied, and no one has been able to give me a lie yet. Even in the flashbacks, where they’ve shown schemes that he and others have done. He hasn’t lied.

    He chooses his words carefully, but at least for the time being, I’m going to take everything he says literally and believe it completely.[/quote]
    I thought there were several examples posted earlier. Please don’t make me go back and read all 350+ comments on this thread! 🙂

    I agree that most of the time he chooses his words carefully and we can debate whether or not he is indeed lying in each instance. I agree with you that we can basically discount everything he said as Henry Gale.

    Here are a few examples from TMFT, in his conversations with Locke:

    Locke I’m not looking for Jack. I’m looking for the submarine. The submarine…where is it?
    Ben I’m not sure what you mean, John. What submarine?
    (Maybe this isn’t a lie per se, but he’s being dishonest – he knows what sub Locke is talking about)

    Ben: I was born on this island. Not many of my people can say that. Most of them were recruited and brought here and as much as they love this place…as much as they would do anything to defend it…they need to know they can leave if they want to. The sub maintains that illusion.
    Locke: So you’re lying to them.
    Ben: [Frustrated] No. There here because they want to be here. Some of them are just not ready to make a full…commitment yet.
    (After seeing Juliet’s flashback, I’d say it’s clear to him and to us that Juliet wants to leave, so to me, this is a lie)

    Again, maybe this is semantics and you could say these are not “lies” in the strictest definition of the word. But to me they are lies.

  374. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50026″]I would like to know how Rachel didn’t see Richard in the playground taping her. Even if he was discreet, with a cell phone cam, or something-she met him when Juliet reported to duty at Mittelos! Surely, she’d recognize the last guy that she saw her sister with! After all, Rachel must be thinking her sis has been missing for three years![/quote]
    I think there’s several possible explanations:
    – Richard may have had a “disguise” on – a hat, sunglasses, beard etc
    – Someone other than Richard was filming the actual video
    – They were in a building next to the playground and had a zoom lens

  375. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50125″]As far as Ben “curing” juliette’s sister’s cancer, I wonder if Ben was just manipulating Juliette’s mind and the cancer didn’t even come back in the first place. So – it was easy to show the sister with Julian, her healthy son, to Juliette because she’s been healthy ever since. I think more than Ben having physical powers he often is just manipulating the other people. Like I still believe that John Locke’s father is in on the whole deal and he was not captured. Ben was manipulating John so he would join them. I also think that Christian Shepperd is alive and kicking and might be “jacob” – just a thought. Seems to be such a central character.[/quote]
    The producers have said that characters who are dead stay dead, so Christian can’t be alive.

  376. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50114″][quote comment=”50108″][quote]

    erm its been confirmed by Damon and Carlton that the box idea was just a metaphor. I think Ben was trying to tell Locke that if he just stopped and thought about things he could open the box, but it was just purely a metaphor, and all those things like Jack’s dad, well i think its the smokey monster. on the lockedown map somewhere it says Cerbus. Now thats a part of the brain that sees things in your past or something like that.

    the lost king[/quote]

    Cerberus was also the name of the three headed dog that guarded the realm of the dead in Greek mythology-funny how if the Smoke monster is the Cerberus that is referred to on the map and the manifestations on the island that it keeps choosing people who are supposed to be dead and appearing to others right before they die…[/quote]

    wow, i just realised that your right about the 3 headed dog. Im guessing thanks to this blog we have solved the mystery of smokey[/quote]
    ______________________
    For some photographic evidence, go here http://www.losteastereggs.blogspot.com/ and scroll down to “Smokey = Cerberus”

  377. i’m addicted to this blog.
    i’ve been reading it since yesterday.
    now i can’t help but wonder about sawyer’s implant….and the fact that juliette was able to impregnate a male mouse…and how she stole the same serum (back in the states) that we keep seeing. i’m addicted! i even made this:

    http://www.cafepress.com/shelloniusjunk/2833640

  378. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”49862″][quote comment=”49717″][quote comment=”49688″][/quote]So there’s something weird going on. They watched Sawyer kill the guy? They just happen to have hidden cameras planted in the precise spots they need to be so the Others witness things like that? Or, is there some time travel involve? Once they knew who was on the plane they went back in time and followed the people around?[/quote]

    Couldn’t it just be that the police were looking for sawyer, therefore when the others did there background check it showed up.[/quote]
    ________________
    But that’s the point- why would the police be looking for Sawyer? He had no direct connection to the guy he killed. There were no witnesses. The only person who could tie Sawyer to the murder victim is the guy who told Sawyer to kill him, and it’s doubtful he would come forward to the police.[/quote]

    If they were gathering background info. on Sawyer after the crash I’m sure they found out his connection to Hibbs and from there they could track the man Hibbs claimed was the “real” Sawyer. That guys turns up dead in Australia and the Others put two and two together. If they worked it out that way they didn’t need to be watching the Losties ahead of time.[/quote]
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    OK, I can buy this.

  379. Other 218 says:

    [quote comment=”50140″]____________________
    Tasha:
    As far as Smokey=Cerberus goes, not totally sure. If Smokey serves as the security system on the island, then it totally makes sense that the writers would choose a name like Cerberus to refer to it especially if part of that systme involved manifesting dead people. It also got me thinking about the monster in Egyptian mythology that would eat the hearts of the dead if they didn’t weigh less than the feather on the eternal scales of judgement. If the heart was heavier than the feather then that meant the person hadn’t lived a good life and they were doomed to the judgement of having their heart devoured by…and the name of the thing I escapes me right now, but it might have been something like Cerberus. Perhaps that ties into the way Ecko and Boone were killed. So maybe when Smokey scanned Juliet in the jungle, it was doing a type of “feather test” measuring her heart to see it it should be devoured. For some reason, she weighed lighter and was spared even though she killed Pickett. What I’m thinking is that Smokey is controlled to some degree by whatever morality the Others follow because according to the Losties, Juliet’s murder of Picket was precisely that murder and would cause her “heart” to heavy and eventually devoured.[/quote]
    ———–
    Ancient Egyptian myth says the deceased appears before a panel of 14 judges to make an accounting for deeds during life. Next, the jackal god Anubis who represents the underworld and mummification leads the deceased before the scale. Anubis then weighs the heart of the deceased against the feather of Ma’at, goddess of truth and justice. If the heart of the deceased outweighs the feather, then the deceased has a heart which has been made heavy with evil deeds. In that event, Ammit, the god with a crocodile head and hippopotamus legs, will devour the heart, condemning the deceased to oblivion for eternity. But if the feather outweighs the heart, and then the deceased has led a righteous life and may be presented before Osiris to join the afterlife. Thoth, the ibis-headed god of wisdom stands at the ready to record the outcome. Horus, the god with the falcon head, then leads the deceased to Osiris, lord of the underworld, Behind Osiris stands his wife Isis and her sister Nephthys. Together, Osiris, Isis, and Nephthys welcome the deceased to the underworld.

  380. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”50149″]Tina-

    I was referring to early posts on this thread.

    But the scene was right before they left the island. Locke grabs Walt’s arm and I guess Walt feels or sees something. Anyway, he warns Locke not to open that “thing.” I am just pretty sure he didn’t say “box”. I could go watch it though….Oh and Walt was referring to the Hatch I think.[/quote]

    I totally remember now, thanks for the clear up! I think it was the hatch, only thing that really makes sense at this point conisdering all the ramifications of opening it.

  381. Tasha says:

    The Lost King-

    Yes I think that is possible.

    I think Walt’s powers go beyond traveling time. Why wouldn’t he just tell Locke what he saw? That would be more of a warning to a guy he looked up too.

    I am confused about Walt and I don’t understand why he is gone when no questions have been answered.

    Don’t forget Walt changed his mind about being on that island. He said he HAD to get off. I still think this could be more of a psychic ability.

    BTW- The clocks changed in this episode again. You think they would be more careful with people looking into that stuff! When Juliet walked into Ben’s house the time was about 12:35. Then it changed to 9:30 and stayed that way.

  382. MKS says:

    First- to Lost King
    I don’t think it matters what religion any of these people are. There is an universal theme of good vs. evil here that is conected to all and no religion in particular. This is also probably why the writers use references from several religions and mythology.
    Second-
    Juliette says she has been kept on the island for three years now and wants to go home. Ben shows her Rachel with Julian, a real time shot that is taking place three years after she has left. Time is adding up in this instance.
    Third-
    Ben tells his people to go see IF THERE ARE ANY SURVIVORS. It does not seem like he knows who is on that plane yet.
    Fourth-
    All the Losties have at one point in their lives told at least one big, if not many big lies. ex. Sawyer is lying about his real name to this day! So why is everyone ready to call Ben a liar, but not our Losties?

  383. THE LOST KING says:

    erm, i am all for smokey being cerebus as i brought it up. But i fail to see how the others have such little knowledge, or are they lieng?

    bringing me to ben, if thats true, he is a bloody liar! he lied about his identity,about pushing the button,about having a submarine,about the x rays being his (says to jack),about wanting jack to stay on the island and many mnay more things, but lets look back at them all and listen to waht alex said to locke. he manipulates.

    1-(the identity) this was to manipulate locke,jack and sayid into beliveing his story.
    2-pushing the button, manipulate locke
    3-the submarine for the whole con to keep jack
    4-the xrays- he told jack they had a plan to break him to manipulate him into doing surgeory
    5-wanting jack to stay so he wouldnt look bad to his people.

    so BEN IS NOT A LIAR, he is a maipulator. add all his lies up and you get manipulation, and yourall reading to much into ben not being a liar.

    e.g if someone asked me to save a persons life, and i did, and they accused me of not doing it i would say i am not a liar, as i am sure all of you would say. but then we lie and dont take it on board.

  384. MKS says:

    Also, as I have said above, Ben told Juliette he had never lied to HER. I think he was upset that she accused him of lying to her, not being a liar in general.

  385. Tina says:

    People Freaking out About Lies:

    Aren’t we splitting hairs? Some people are saying manipulations don’t necessarily= lies, and others are saying the reverse. There is deception and manipulation going on on both sides of the camps, now whether we call things lies, half truths, manipulations, or whatever, they are still DISHONEST. Maybe that is part of the point, what we believe to be truth, versus what others perceive. ben obviously thinks he is telling the truth, saying things that are true. Does that mean what he says ARE true? Yes and no. Depending on what you believe the philosophical nature of “Truth” is, will help to shape how you perceive Ben’s statements. Now, if the island CAN manifest ones depest desires, then any and everything Ben says can be construed as “true” because he can simply believe it hard enough and make it happen.

    But please folks, can we drop this line of argument for the sake of the sanity of those of us reading all 350+ posts.

    Thanks! 🙂

  386. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”50171″]
    Juliette says she has been kept on the island for three years now and wants to go home. Ben shows her Rachel with Julian, a real time shot that is taking place three years after she has left. Time is adding up in this instance.
    ?[/quote]

    Why is it we think time is going faster on the island? I thought time could be slowing down? So that would make Sept. 22 old news. We don’t know how long the plane took to get to the island.

    Anything with time doesn’t make sense on the same planet. They have to be somewhere where time is different. I mean I thought there was a scientific explanation for this. Take earth for instance, it takes 365 days for earth to go around the sun. It takes 165 years for Neptune to go around the sun. There day is 16 hours long whereas our day is 24. That is time change there. I am not saying they are on another planet or anything. I am just saying that the whole time change thing could be because they are somewhere other than earth. Even with people that believe in the Hallow Earth theory, time is different there too. Because land is rotating around an inner sun. The sun is not rotating.

    Point of this “ridiculous to some ramble” is…time could be slower on this island. Not so much faster. Of course I am not a scientist or anything, all this is just in my head!

  387. a few questions:

    why does everyone think that the island isn’t in real time? i think the only reason ben said “this is real time” is so she’d believe him. what things have there been to suggest time travel/not real time?

    i don’t think juliette is evil, but that doesn’t mean she’s not capable of doing bad things; almost everyone on the island has done something bad out of desperation.
    i also think that she is simply hard to read because she has botox face 😛
    (her skin seems looser in the flashbacks; she seemed much more expressive then.)

    i’m also not sure why people think that ben had anything to do with causing the crash…he even said “there could be some survivors” [ad-lib]…

    i wish libby was still on the show…hopefully she’ll appear in a flashback.

    also, someone mentioned that “downtown”, according to wikipedia, was featured in the first episode of season three….but that’s false, THAT song was “maaaake your own kind of musiiiic”.

  388. MKS says:

    To those of you who are upset with Jack for trusting Juliette. Let’s see what he knows about her:
    – She was very nice to him from the beginning, trying to win his trust.
    – She wanted Ben dead.
    – She has been a prisoner of sorts on the Island and has wanted to go home for a long time.
    – She killed one of the Others in order to help HIS friends escape.
    – The Others were going to kill her, and it was only because of his intervention that she was saved.
    – She was tortured (branded) by the Others.
    – The Others left her behind.

    I am not saying all of these things are really true, but they are as far as Jack is concerned. It makes perfect sense that he would feel protective of her.

  389. Toeknee says:

    MKS – I think there was so much discussion about Ben being a liar because we’re trying to figure out what’s really going on here, and because he came right out and said he’s not a liar. Your point about Ben having said that only to Juliet (with Mikhail as a witness) is a good one, and maybe that’s why he seemed so offended by the accusation – it’s ok to lie to your enemies, but not to your colleagues.

    Having said all that – here’s another example of Ben lying… After the Lockdown and after the Losties discovered he wasn’t Henry Gale, he and Locke have this conversation:

    GALE: This place? This place is a joke, John.

    LOCKE: What are you talking about?

    GALE: I crawled through your vents and I stood at your computer as the alarm beeped. And you know what happened? The timer went all the way down to zero, and then some funny red pictures flipped up in its place. They looked like hieroglyphics, but I’m no expert. And then things got real interesting. There was a loud clunking and a hum like a magnet — a big magnet. It was really very frightening. And you know what happened next? Nothing happened, John. Nothing happened at all. Your timer just flipped back to 108. I never entered the numbers. I never pressed the button.

    LOCKE: You’re lying.

    GALE: No, I’m done lying.

    At this point he’s still a captive, so maybe you can give him some leeway for lying, but he is indeed lying.

  390. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50169″]The Lost King-

    Yes I think that is possible.

    I think Walt’s powers go beyond traveling time. Why wouldn’t he just tell Locke what he saw? That would be more of a warning to a guy he looked up too.

    I am confused about Walt and I don’t understand why he is gone when no questions have been answered.

    Don’t forget Walt changed his mind about being on that island. He said he HAD to get off. I still think this could be more of a psychic ability.

    BTW- The clocks changed in this episode again. You think they would be more careful with people looking into that stuff! When Juliet walked into Ben’s house the time was about 12:35. Then it changed to 9:30 and stayed that way.[/quote]

    well i dont think time moves differently off the island because it was live in the park and said sep 22 2004. and i guess they would make sure about the clocks, its a bit irresposible but great ep still[quote comment=”50171″]First-

    to Lost King
    I don’t think it matters what religion any of these people are. There is an universal theme of good vs. evil here that is conected to all and no religion in particular. This is also probably why the writers use references from several religions and mythology.
    Second-
    Juliette says she has been kept on the island for three years now and wants to go home. Ben shows her Rachel with Julian, a real time shot that is taking place three years after she has left. Time is adding up in this instance.
    Third-
    Ben tells his people to go see IF THERE ARE ANY SURVIVORS. It does not seem like he knows who is on that plane yet.
    Fourth-
    All the Losties have at one point in their lives told at least one big, if not many big lies. ex. Sawyer is lying about his real name to this day! So why is everyone ready to call Ben a liar, but not our Losties?[/quote]

    well i went overboard with the religions and yes your right, why is every one calling ben a liar when the losties have lied, but i dont think ben saying he is not a liar is really a big deal

    and also who thinks karl is a boy genius if he did the x rayz

  391. Tasha says:

    “Make your Own Kind of Music” was in the first episode of season 2! I think. It was the song Desmond had playing.

  392. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50175″]People Freaking out About Lies:

    Aren’t we splitting hairs? Some people are saying manipulations don’t necessarily= lies, and others are saying the reverse. There is deception and manipulation going on on both sides of the camps, now whether we call things lies, half truths, manipulations, or whatever, they are still DISHONEST. Maybe that is part of the point, what we believe to be truth, versus what others perceive. ben obviously thinks he is telling the truth, saying things that are true. Does that mean what he says ARE true? Yes and no. Depending on what you believe the philosophical nature of “Truth” is, will help to shape how you perceive Ben’s statements. Now, if the island CAN manifest ones depest desires, then any and everything Ben says can be construed as “true” because he can simply believe it hard enough and make it happen.

    But please folks, can we drop this line of argument for the sake of the sanity of those of us reading all 350+ posts.

    Thanks! :)[/quote]
    LOL sorry about my last post #389

  393. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”50178″]To those of you who are upset with Jack for trusting Juliette. Let’s see what he knows about her:
    – She was very nice to him from the beginning, trying to win his trust.
    – She wanted Ben dead.
    – She has been a prisoner of sorts on the Island and has wanted to go home for a long time.
    – She killed one of the Others in order to help HIS friends escape.
    – The Others were going to kill her, and it was only because of his intervention that she was saved.
    – She was tortured (branded) by the Others.
    – The Others left her behind.

    I am not saying all of these things are really true, but they are as far as Jack is concerned. It makes perfect sense that he would feel protective of her.[/quote]

    Well there’s those things and the fact that it has been 80 some odd days since he got any.

  394. Tasha says:

    Well anyone who is interested, I found this article online. Not really dealing with Lost. I found this looking up info on the hallow earth theory and how time/space/ and dimension changes. Anyhow I found this article about time from 2004.

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/379/12190_experiment.html

  395. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50187″]Well anyone who is interested, I found this article online. Not really dealing with Lost. I found this looking up info on the hallow earth theory and how time/space/ and dimension changes. Anyhow I found this article about time from 2004.

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/379/12190_experiment.html%5B/quote%5D

    tasha, may you put a link to this article if you would be so kind?

  396. THE LOST KING says:

    oh, sorry just realised that you have put the article up.

  397. Tasha says:

    I put the link can you not see it?

    I will type it out…

    english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/379/12190_experiment.html

    you might have to add the http://

    english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/379/12190_experiment.html

  398. MKS says:

    Great article Tasha. I think that what is happening on the island is that sort of thing. Time is moving at the same speed and slower at the same time. Let me explain- if you have ever been in an accident, witnessed an accident, or seen someone about to get hurt, etc. you know that everything seems to happen in slow-motion. Time seems to slow to a crawl and you can see the action or feel it happening at a much slower pace. But time isn’t really slower, everywhere in the world and all around you things are happening and time is moving at a normal pace. I think the island is that kind of place. Things are slower, but moving right along. Don’t know if this makes sense. LOL

  399. GuttahMan says:

    I dont think Walt has any special psychic powers…i think they kidnapped him and all the other children so their society can live on…if they cant have children, then sooner or later their people are all gonna die leaving no one else on the island…they kidnap children so they can raise them as their own and hope that by the time they become old enough to procreate their problems with conception will be solved

  400. loungesingah says:

    ummm…i couldn’t get through all the posts, so sorry if this was mentioned. But hasn’t anyone questioned how Sun got pregnant?! Wasn’t Jin infertile or her or something? I know they couldn’t have a baby, then all of a sudden she was pregnant. Lost made it seem like maybe it came from her affair. But I think it may have been the Others and Juliet who impregnated an infertile Jin.

    Wondered if anyone else thought about this?

    p.s. When did Jack become a moron?

  401. Sawyer's Evil Twin says:

    [quote comment=”50181″]”Make your Own Kind of Music” was in the first episode of season 2! I think. It was the song Desmond had playing.[/quote]
    Yup, you’re right. He was working out, riding a stationary bike I think. I remember the song clearly. What’s the significance of that particular song? A 60’s/70’s song played at 2 different times by 2 different people. Will we ever know? I sometimes think the writers throw stuff like that in just to make boards like this crazy. There’s no way the writers knew what the game plan would be when they started this show. They make this stuff up as they go. Then they try to make things match with previous episodes. I just don’t think it’s possible to make everything jive.

  402. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”50195″]ummm…i couldn’t get through all the posts, so sorry if this was mentioned. But hasn’t anyone questioned how Sun got pregnant?! Wasn’t Jin infertile or her or something? I know they couldn’t have a baby, then all of a sudden she was pregnant. Lost made it seem like maybe it came from her affair. But I think it may have been the Others and Juliet who impregnated an infertile Jin.

    Wondered if anyone else thought about this?

    p.s. When did Jack become a moron?[/quote]

    Sun’s pregnancy has been discussed several times. There have also been discussions on Jack’s recent behavior.

    I have another question, and if there has been some discussion on this anywhere, please let me know.
    We know that Jack’s wife left him for someone else. He assumed it was his father, but it was not. The name of the guy was never mentioned as far as I can remember. Could she have left him for Jacob? Or someone else connected to the Others? Any thoughts on this?

  403. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50197″]
    I have another question, and if there has been some discussion on this anywhere, please let me know.
    We know that Jack’s wife left him for someone else. He assumed it was his father, but it was not. The name of the guy was never mentioned as far as I can remember. Could she have left him for Jacob? Or someone else connected to the Others? Any thoughts on this?[/quote]
    I don’t think it would be Jacob – the guy seemed young from what we could see, and I’ve envisioned Jacob as an older person. But I could be wrong about that.

    It does seem a bit odd that Jack had made such a big deal about Sarah telling him the guy’s name, and then Sarah not telling him, as if the writers specifically want to keep that a secret from us, the viewers. Maybe that will turn out to be a significant person.

  404. while the others did seem awfully calm and collected when the plane crash occurred, i still don’t think they knew it was going to happen or else they wouldn’t have been having a book club meeting and carrying on with “every day life.”

    but the fact that they WERE so calm and seemed to know exactly where to go & what to do makes me wonder if there have been other plane crashes.

  405. Tasha says:

    What made them think their would be survivors? Maybe there were other plane crashes. Or MAYBE Ben knew all along! I can’t wait to see Ben’s flashbacks! Something better get answered!

  406. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50206″]while the others did seem awfully calm and collected when the plane crash occurred, i still don’t think they knew it was going to happen or else they wouldn’t have been having a book club meeting and carrying on with “every day life.”

    but the fact that they WERE so calm and seemed to know exactly where to go & what to do makes me wonder if there have been other plane crashes.[/quote]

    i think they have dun things like that b4, ur right

  407. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”50206″]while the others did seem awfully calm and collected when the plane crash occurred, i still don’t think they knew it was going to happen or else they wouldn’t have been having a book club meeting and carrying on with “every day life.”

    but the fact that they WERE so calm and seemed to know exactly where to go & what to do makes me wonder if there have been other plane crashes.[/quote]

    We know there have been some smaller crashes i.e Desmond with his boat, the real Henry with his balloon, Eko’s brother in his plane…

  408. Cindy says:

    This is my first time commenting but I’ve been an avid reader! There have been lots of great comments and questions and I just wanted to add in some food for thought…There is a reoccuring idea that Jack didn’t seem surprised by Juliette’s admission to lying and handcuffing Kate. What if he wasn’t surprised because just as Juliette is on a mission for Ben, so is he? What if this episode was Juliette’s half of Ben’s plan and we’ll eventually see Jack’s half of Ben’s plan? What if Jack was left behind to ensure Juliette does what she is supposed to? What if Ben doesn’t really trust Juliette, after she’s made Jack sandwiches, thought Jack was cute and tried to kill Ben? Those sound like good reasons to have a back plan if I were Ben.

  409. THE LOST KING says:

    and ruussso’s recked search vessel. just a thought here, the slaves on the black rock, could they have been the othrers?? well the old ones

  410. THE LOST KING says:

    jacob cudda been on it?

  411. avalanche says:

    [quote comment=”50187″]Well anyone who is interested, I found this article online. Not really dealing with Lost. I found this looking up info on the hallow earth theory and how time/space/ and dimension changes. Anyhow I found this article about time from 2004.

    http://english.pravda.ru/science/19/94/379/12190_experiment.html%5B/quote%5D

    this article has a bit of the blair witch feel to it. i don’t know how crazy/dedicated the writers are of lost. would they plant this article as a fake. it just seems to be clues about time and not a specific article written with a purpose. the spooky end was just a little much. Can anyone confirm this is real? how would one even begin to verify?

  412. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50211″]This is my first time commenting but I’ve been an avid reader! There have been lots of great comments and questions and I just wanted to add in some food for thought…There is a reoccuring idea that Jack didn’t seem surprised by Juliette’s admission to lying and handcuffing Kate. What if he wasn’t surprised because just as Juliette is on a mission for Ben, so is he? What if this episode was Juliette’s half of Ben’s plan and we’ll eventually see Jack’s half of Ben’s plan? What if Jack was left behind to ensure Juliette does what she is supposed to? What if Ben doesn’t really trust Juliette, after she’s made Jack sandwiches, thought Jack was cute and tried to kill Ben? Those sound like good reasons to have a back plan if I were Ben.[/quote]

    i LIKE that idea Cindy. By the way, you arent the Cindy from the plane are you. Only joking. I think its exactly like Ben to do something like that, you have got it in one, you should start commenting more on the blog.

  413. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”50211″]This is my first time commenting… just wanted to add in some food for thought… Jack didn’t seem surprised by Juliette’s… just as Juliette is on a mission for Ben, so is he? What if this episode was Juliette’s half of Ben’s plan and we’ll eventually see Jack’s half of Ben’s plan? What if Jack was left behind to ensure Juliette does what she is supposed to?…[/quote]
    ———–
    First of all, you definitely need to speak-up more often – good job. I had a train-of-thought like this too, but I veered a little to the other side. Jack has history with Ben and I doubt that he would knowingly comply in a “Jack & Juliets Excellent Adventure” to the beach – although the “she’s under my protection” statement might indicate that. It is more likely that Jack & Locke have a secret plan together (they did have some access to one another in the barracks) and they are using the (Ben-endorsed) Juliet visit to the beach as their cover to free all the Losties from being held on the Island. Locke went with Ben to keep an eye on him and learn more about the island, Jack has the hand receipt on Juliet because he can counter any voodoo medicine she might unleash on the beach. (I was very uncomfortable seeing Claire with a hand & face full of blood- bleh!)

  414. Annemoonstar says:

    I hate to get back into the “Ben lying” thing because I’m not sure how relevant it is. But…didn’t he lie to Sawyer about the thing in his chest? First he said he had implanted it and gave him a whole story about not getting his heart rate up to high. Then later he tells him that he didn’t do anything and implies that Sawyer may not ever know the truth (I think I’m remembering that correctly!) So, wouldn’t Ben have lied to Sawyer one way or the other?

  415. Jones says:

    Have the creators officially denounced a “the others are aliens” theory? It is seeming more and more like the island is not on earth.

  416. i saw someone mention this earlier, so i had to take a gander for myself…and now i’m pretty convinced….that it IS MICHAEL on the sub. with juliette at the 11:44 mark.
    what to you guys think?!?!? this has my gears turning; now i’m thinking about walt’s mom’s death…and a billion other things…

    http://www.cafepress.com/shelloniusjunk/2833640

  417. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”50177″] someone mentioned that “downtown”, according to wikipedia, was featured in the first episode of season three….but that’s false, THAT song was “maaaake your own kind of musiiiic”.[/quote]
    — S2E1 Desmond starting his 108 minute routine & S3E8 Desmonds pub on two separate nights = Make Your Own Kind of Music – Mama Cass
    — S3E1 Juliet prepping for Book Club & S3E16 Juliet get confident in mirror = Downtown – Petula Clark

    http://www.losthatch.com/search.aspx
    search ALL, ALL, SONG and keywords MAMA CASS then later, PETULA CLARK. Check the “include details” box. The 3.16 reference is not posted yet.

  418. Tasha says:

    Annemoonstar-

    Thank YOU! Someone who realizes Ben is a LIAR!!!! He didn’t manipulated him, he told him strait up what it was, then later admitted that he lied.

  419. Tasha says:

    I don’t think it is Micheal that is in the sub. It is probably the same guy that I thought looked like Micheal that was in the scene where Kate was caught trying to talk to Jack after he was playing the piano. They do look similar.

  420. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”50198″][quote comment=”50197″]
    I have another question, and if there has been some discussion on this anywhere, please let me know.
    We know that Jack’s wife left him for someone else. He assumed it was his father, but it was not. The name of the guy was never mentioned as far as I can remember. Could she have left him for Jacob? Or someone else connected to the Others? Any thoughts on this?[/quote]
    I don’t think it would be Jacob – the guy seemed young from what we could see, and I’ve envisioned Jacob as an older person. But I could be wrong about that.

    It does seem a bit odd that Jack had made such a big deal about Sarah telling him the guy’s name, and then Sarah not telling him, as if the writers specifically want to keep that a secret from us, the viewers. Maybe that will turn out to be a significant person.[/quote]
    William Shatner?

  421. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”50218″]I hate to get back into the “Ben lying” thing because I’m not sure how relevant it is. But…didn’t he lie to Sawyer about the thing in his chest? First he said he had implanted it and gave him a whole story about not getting his heart rate up to high. Then later he tells him that he didn’t do anything and implies that Sawyer may not ever know the truth (I think I’m remembering that correctly!) So, wouldn’t Ben have lied to Sawyer one way or the other?[/quote]

    Yes, another person brought this example to me after my last post.

    I agree, everything I remember about this episode is that he lied on one end or the other.

    I will say that my point was to take his words completely literally, so I’ll have to check his exact words out to verify.

    But for now, I will admit defeat. 🙂

  422. THE LOST KING says:

    I THINK IVE SOLVED THE MYSTERIOUS ILLNESS!

    i think that after looking back at the episode, maybe this illness that russo belives the others have got, and the illness that put quarrantine signs in the hatches is the illness that the others DO INFACT HAVE, they cant concieve baby’s because of this. and the reason Russo can, is because she had never seen one or been near one she said. And claire could becasue of the injections. maybe the men can get this illness aswell? and maybe ben doesnt want women leaving the island because if the outside world catch it, then thats it.

    maybe Juliet’s other mission is to look after all the women and the others will come and purge the losty men. maybe use saqwyer’s sperm on them all becasue he is the only losty we know can have kids. he is the only one who has a kid as far as we know.

    Tell me your thoughts

  423. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”50169″]The Lost King-

    Yes I think that is possible.

    I think Walt’s powers go beyond traveling time. Why wouldn’t he just tell Locke what he saw? That would be more of a warning to a guy he looked up too.

    I am confused about Walt and I don’t understand why he is gone when no questions have been answered.

    Don’t forget Walt changed his mind about being on that island. He said he HAD to get off. I still think this could be more of a psychic ability.

    BTW- The clocks changed in this episode again. You think they would be more careful with people looking into that stuff! When Juliet walked into Ben’s house the time was about 12:35. Then it changed to 9:30 and stayed that way.[/quote]
    Wow…you’re right. Normally I would say once is a continuity error and twice is an easter egg.

    Is it possible they shot the scenes for these two episodes on two different days? I think the times are the same as TMFT.

  424. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”50211″]This is my first time commenting… just wanted to add in some food for thought… Jack didn’t seem surprised by Juliette’s… just as Juliette is on a mission for Ben, so is he? What if this episode was Juliette’s half of Ben’s plan and we’ll eventually see Jack’s half of Ben’s plan? What if Jack was left behind to ensure Juliette does what she is supposed to?…[/quote]

    I like this one too.

    Or maybe, for another twist….Jack’s half of Juliet’s plan? Maybe the two of them are working together w/o Ben’s knowledge.

  425. Hurley's Dad says:

    I’ve read every one of these posts so far and can’t find any mention of this so hopefully this is new fodder for people.

    Don’t know the significance…..but….

    When “Downtown” starts at the 32:00 mark, we see Juliet looking in a mirror with an orange top/shirt. She starts laugh/cry eyes closed. Opens eyes and we move to her moving chairs.

    But her shirt changed to a purple sweater over a white undershirt.

    When first watching this, we are made to assume this was relatively fluid. But either it’s not the same day, or she changed clothes in between.

    Again, don’t know the significance if any. Looking for stuff on this show is driving me nuts. 🙂

  426. THE LOST KING says:

    I THINK IVE SOLVED THE MYSTERIOUS ILLNESS!

    i think that after looking back at the episode, maybe this illness that russo belives the others have got, and the illness that put quarrantine signs in the hatches is the illness that the others DO INFACT HAVE, they cant concieve baby’s because of this. and the reason Russo can, is because she had never seen one or been near one she said. And claire could becasue of the injections. maybe the men can get this illness aswell? and maybe ben doesnt want women leaving the island because if the outside world catch it, then thats it.

    maybe Juliet’s other mission is to look after all the women and the others will come and purge the losty men. maybe use saqwyer’s sperm on them all becasue he is the only losty we know can have kids. he is the only one who has a kid as far as we know.

    Tell me your thoughts

  427. THE LOST KING says:

    Oh sorry, didnt realise i had posted that comment again (above)

    WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS THOUGH?

  428. lost chicka says:

    does anyone else think that the reason ben put such a big emphasis on saying “this is live time” because he was lying? they could’ve just used an old newspaper.

  429. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50244″]does anyone else think that the reason ben put such a big emphasis on saying “this is live time” because he was lying? they could’ve just used an old newspaper.[/quote]

    NO, BECAUSE, 1-the date on when des didnt push the button was sep22 2004 and conicidently thatswhen the losties crashed

  430. cakey says:

    [quote comment=”50242″]I THINK IVE SOLVED THE MYSTERIOUS ILLNESS!

    i think that after looking back at the episode, maybe this illness that russo belives the others have got, and the illness that put quarrantine signs in the hatches is the illness that the others DO INFACT HAVE, etc.

    Hi Lost King – In an earlier post, I noted that there is indeed an actual syndrom (which I happen to have) called, in short, the “RH factor.” Basically it is where the mother’s body recognizes the fetus’s as a foreign substance and attacks it and kills it. This happens because the fetus has different blood proteins from the mother – WHICH THEY HAVE INHERITED FROM THE FATHER.

  431. cakey says:

    [quote comment=”50242″]I THINK IVE SOLVED THE MYSTERIOUS ILLNESS!

    i think that after looking back at the episode, maybe this illness that russo belives the others have got, and the illness that put quarrantine signs in the hatches is the illness that the others DO INFACT HAVE, etc.

    Hi Lost King – In an earlier post, I noted that there is indeed an actual syndrom (which I happen to have) called, in short, the “RH factor.” Basically it is where the mother’s body recognizes the fetus’s as a foreign substance and attacks it and kills it. This happens because the fetus has different blood proteins from the mother – WHICH THEY HAVE INHERITED FROM THE FATHER.

  432. cakey says:

    Sorry, this is a continuation of my previous post. Anyway, I wondered if the mothers have some out-of-control mutation of this syndrome, where their bodies are not only killing the babies but the mothers as well. Which would make your theory of “purging the lostie men” interesting because it is the male’s fault this happens! (well, not really, it’s nto their fault they have a different blood type, but anyway. I had to get a shot after the birth of my first child to prevent the antibodies from killing the next one, sadly lost the next one anyway, happily my third was born healthy. 🙂 )

  433. lost chicka says:

    the others know that sawyer killed a man in cold blood the night before cause sawyer got the plane ticket from the aussie police and was told to “never come back”…seems like they got what they wanted.

  434. lilpuchin says:

    Am I the only person who saw Michael on the sub when Juliet arrives on the island for the first time. He is the one sitting with his back to her, if you pause it, there is quite a resembelence, also remember Mike freed Ben (Henry) and shot Ana Lucia, who remember killed Goodwin.

  435. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50180″]
    and also who thinks karl is a boy genius if he did the x rayz[/quote]
    I know you’ve mentioned this a few times, Lost King, but I respectfully think you’re reading too much into this. By no means am I an expert, but I don’t think one needs to be particularly smart to take and/or develop X-rays. With a little training, I think anyone could do it, sort of like people who work in a 1-hour photo shop. Juliet could very well have used the name Mark or Mary or any other name for the person who did the X-ray; I just think the writers chose Karl to show that he’s not some punk, he had a job to do, just like everyone else. Note that later in the episode, Ben mentions that he had “Pryce” put the case with the medical supplies near the Losties camp, Pryce being just another one of the Others whom we haven’t met.

  436. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50257″]the others know that sawyer killed a man in cold blood the night before cause sawyer got the plane ticket from the aussie police and was told to “never come back”…seems like they got what they wanted.[/quote]
    Sawyer was arrested (and deported) for head-butting an Australian politician a few days prior. If they knew he murdered someone, they wouldn’t have let him leave the country

  437. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50258″]Am I the only person who saw Michael on the sub when Juliet arrives on the island for the first time. He is the one sitting with his back to her, if you pause it, there is quite a resembelence, also remember Mike freed Ben (Henry) and shot Ana Lucia, who remember killed Goodwin.[/quote]
    A few people have made that comment. I tend to agree with Tasha (comment #419) in that the guy looks similar to Michael, but is not him.

  438. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment=”50129″]Also, Ben told Jules that he had been looking for her all morning. How did Richard know she would be at that park? He walks in and says get him at the park. If time changes, just because the paper said Sept.22…couldn’t that have been filmed before hand? What if it took a day or two for the plane to even crash? Maybe everyone on plane was drugged and when they drank things and fell asleep. The plane landed in God knows where. Then they took everyone off the plane and staged the whole thing. Maybe Ben acted all surprised but maybe this was all a plan. Even talking to Patchy. Even telling Ethan and Goodwin to get lists of everyone. Getting lists doesn’t make a lot of sense. Goodwin seemed to be with the taillies for awhile. When did he have time to go back to the Others. Plus Ben seemed like he knew someone would be pregnant on he plane. Claire’s psychic was a con artist. He wanted her there. Also Jacob is calling the shots. He probably planned this.

    The way Ben talked about Jacob to Julliet seemed like she knew him. Not only knew him but had A LOT of faith in him. The look in her eyes when Ben asked her…”Don’t you have faith in him?” looked as if she had a ton of faith in this person. Like someone who would have faith in God.[/quote]

    couple of thoughts:
    1) the Others have probably been through crashes before so they have the whole routine down…well, maybe.

    2) i don’t think that claire’s phsycic was a con artist – i think that he knew what would happen & was desperate enough for claire to raise the aaron that he was willing to put her on the plane. i’m pretty sure charlie told claire that right before ethan took em.

    3)i’m pretty sure that the plane crash happened quick and was real- not a con. the Others didn’t knoww that there would be a crash, u can tell by their faces & reactions in the first episode & this one.

    4)Ethan & Goodwin were both missing for lots of episodes, they definitely had the time. plus they probably had a meeting spot where they would give the lists to each other after a week…is that what juliette is doing?

    5) ben WANTED a doctor and pregnant woman/women. he didn’t KNOW if there would be he just wanted.

    6) Juliette had been working with the Others for 3 years, she probably had either met jacob or had heard enough about him that she trusted him.

    7) The Others could be a cult & they’re on the hidden island because they’re that friggin evil.

  439. lost chicka says:

    another way we know walt didn’t bring polar bears to the island is cause the other dud who had the beard told sawyer that it only took the bears (im assumig polar) 2 hours to get the food. besides i think that walt is phsycic not a time traveler

    why are y’all thinking that the flashbacks r what r in the “box”?

    367 – really like the whole linus = lyin (to) us

    if walt saying “don’t open it Mr. locke” was refering to the hatch it would make a LOT of sense…the hatch seemed to bring out the worse in everybody. locke & jack were constanly lyin to each other, sayid beat the hell outa benry, desmond was holding kate & locke prisoner down there, mikael killed ana lucia & libby to get his son out, etc. the hatch was one bad deal even though it seemed like heaven to them i’m sure.

    lost king – i think the others consider everything on the island their’s cause the island is their;s…i think walt does have powers

    to me manipulating/conning is the same as lying. u could argue that sawyer never really lied cause he’s really james ford & sawyer is just an alias. another thing: sawyer isn’t really lying about his name since nobody’s asked him if it’s his real name it’s sorta like if nicole said she was nikki not nicole.

  440. mary2508 says:

    i love sayid and jack. great episode

  441. john locke says:

    i think hurley is the greatest! every episode i crack up when he speaks! and when he went over to talk to juliette, priceless. not to mention him and his many sawyer confrontations, lol. dude! i luv him…. jack seems to be a puss now, and sayid seems to be the only one who has a good sense of charactor. as for kate, i love her too. shes a badass, but still some how has that “girl next door” way about her. all in all , great casting and acting 2 thumbs up. sorry i know this was off subject, but figured the show and actors needed some props.

  442. lost chicka says:

    love hurley too. my favorite thing he’s done is when he build the golf course and say as plane as day that their lives suck & they need some fun…anyways, i got on here to say that in Solitary (ep. 9 s. 1 i think) when Sayid first sees Danielle he says “you.” not “who are you?” but “you” like i know you. We found out in Enter 77 that he lived in France for a while, so is it possible that he knows Danielle somehow even though she crashed on the island 16 yr.s earlier?

    another thing i noticed which i’m probbably blowing way out of porpotion is that Walt wakes up right as Locke is leavin in the episde and asks if he can come too cause he wants to learn to do what Locked does. do you think that he knew how big a conection Locke has with the iland and wanted to learn about it?

    anythoughts on either?

  443. Oliver says:

    I’m german, “Mittelos” means destitute, fundless & moneyless. Although it’s originally written with two “l”s instead. All other translations here were wrong.

  444. Oliver says:

    Speaking of german, Herarat could then also mean Hera(‘s) Rat, in english: Hera’s Council or in a different translation: Hera’s advice. Hera was Zeus’ wife and older sister. Often known for her jealousy and protecting marriage. When directly translated it sounds like, “Hera, please give me some advice.”
    Just a thought.

  445. Boots says:

    [quote comment=”50242″]I THINK IVE SOLVED THE MYSTERIOUS ILLNESS!

    i think that after looking back at the episode, maybe this illness that russo belives the others have got, and the illness that put quarrantine signs in the hatches is the illness that the others DO INFACT HAVE, they cant concieve baby’s because of this. and the reason Russo can, is because she had never seen one or been near one she said. And claire could becasue of the injections. maybe the men can get this illness aswell? and maybe ben doesnt want women leaving the island because if the outside world catch it, then thats it.

    maybe Juliet’s other mission is to look after all the women and the others will come and purge the losty men. maybe use saqwyer’s sperm on them all becasue he is the only losty we know can have kids. he is the only one who has a kid as far as we know.

    Tell me your thoughts[/quote]

    I don’t think there is an illness. I think the quarantine signs and gas masks were to keep people in/out of the hatch. I suspect the disease Rousseau experienced within her group was caused by implants similar to the one they put in Claire. (Perhaps they didn’t put or activate an implant in Rousseau because of her pregnancy?)

    The fertility problems may be related to some environmental factor on the island. But I don’t think it has anything to do with the quarantine.

  446. LostDamery says:

    I still believe we are going to discover another set of Other’s on the island or watching the island. It seems since our first look at Jacks eye ball the show has been pulling back and revealing a bigger and bigger world than the seemingly remote and hidden island. Much like Shrek this story is an Onion with many many layers.
    It is a delicate dance between coincidence and intervention. A twist of Faith and science and a struggle between hope and despair.
    I can see this ending up as a Romeo and Juliet scenario where Jack and Kate confirm their love for each other in their dying words cuddled up in a cave on the Island and some time in the future/past they will be discovered and called Adam and Eve…

  447. lost chicka says:

    I really hope that Kate decides that Jack is a control freak who doesn’t even wants her and is choosing a friggin other over her and picks Sawyer. Is it just me, or did it look kinda like Kate & Sawyer are gonna get a bit cozier on the commercials?

    We’ve known that their are other people on the island since season 1 and they’ve never really said that there’s only 1 group of others on the island, so I guess it’s possible for there to be another group of others on the island.

  448. Laura says:

    Oh my goodness, I have been dying to post for days, but it took me this long to finish reading them all!

    Did anyone think that Claire’s reaction to the implant (the blood pouring out of her mouth and such) looked a lot like Mikhail’s “death” due to the electromagnetic fence? I know in some the past episode blogs there has been a lot of discussion about whether or not Mikhail was really dead… maybe he was wearing an implant and either set it off himself, or someone watching on a camera set it off to be used as a type of last resort if the survivors (or anyone else that the others didnt like) got too close to any of their secrets. Maybe the entire point of the fence is to keep out smokey and the rest is just for show.

    Also… I though it was very interesting that back when Ben and Locke were in the hatch, Ben told Locke that he had been coming for him. I find it interesting that now that has happened. Maybe Ben really was coming for Locke (because he knew that Locke understood the island in a way that he couldn’t) and it was not just a lie to gain sympathy from Locke.

    In the past we’ve been told that the others want people who are “good”. We also know that Jack was not on the “list”… but why not? What have we ever seen that Jack did bad? Sure he turned his Dad in, but he was trying to save all the innocent people that his dad was trying to operate on when drunk.

    I also wanted to agree that Juliet and Ben definitely had a romantic connection. When Juliet got mad and was yelling at Ben, she broke down and started crying like in his arms. That woudl only happen if there was something real there. Also, when Ben was on the operating table and he asked to speak with Juliet, Mr. Friendly said to Jack “they have a lot of history.”

    Okay I think that is all. I love LOST.

  449. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50362″]Oh my goodness, I have been dying to post for days, but it took me this long to finish reading them all!

    Did anyone think that Claire’s reaction to the implant (the blood pouring out of her mouth and such) looked a lot like Mikhail’s “death” due to the electromagnetic fence? I know in some the past episode blogs there has been a lot of discussion about whether or not Mikhail was really dead… maybe he was wearing an implant and either set it off himself, or someone watching on a camera set it off to be used as a type of last resort if the survivors (or anyone else that the others didnt like) got too close to any of their secrets. Maybe the entire point of the fence is to keep out smokey and the rest is just for show.

    i think mikhail is alive. and i think you are right, the others dont know about smokey, but they do know the survivors, so the fence is for smokey.

    Also… I though it was very interesting that back when Ben and Locke were in the hatch, Ben told Locke that he had been coming for him. I find it interesting that now that has happened. Maybe Ben really was coming for Locke (because he knew that Locke understood the island in a way that he couldn’t) and it was not just a lie to gain sympathy from Locke.

    i have sympathy for locke, but i was also wondering why the ”i was coming for you john” question hasnt popped up yet aswell.

    In the past we’ve been told that the others want people who are “good”. We also know that Jack was not on the “list”… but why not? What have we ever seen that Jack did bad? Sure he turned his Dad in, but he was trying to save all the innocent people that his dad was trying to operate on when drunk.

    well mikhail said they were frightened,floored and weak, so im guessing jack is one of those options.

    I also wanted to agree that Juliet and Ben definitely had a romantic connection. When Juliet got mad and was yelling at Ben, she broke down and started crying like in his arms. That woudl only happen if there was something real there. Also, when Ben was on the operating table and he asked to speak with Juliet, Mr. Friendly said to Jack “they have a lot of history.”

    Okay I think that is all. I love LOST.[/quote]

    i think they do NOT hve a romantic history, but i do think we are missing something from what tom did say

    start posting more

    loved it

  450. lost chicka says:

    maybe ben & jul have more of a love-hate relationship?

    jack has never done something bad, but he does have some personality problems if you ask me. he’s a bit of a workaholic i think, he always needs something to fix which is why his ex-wife divorced him (that & the fact there was someone else), and hes a control freak. the control freak personality would really mess up Ben’s plans which could be why he wasn’t on “the list”.

  451. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”50355″]I still believe we are going to discover another set of Other’s on the island or watching the island.[/quote]
    ———
    Current theory says that there is a whole group of observers/controllers way up high on one of the cloud shrouded peaks behind the Others barracks. You can see the peak in several recent shots. There should be a communication tower up there too.

  452. lost chicka says:

    if juliette is only gonna be there for a week, she apparently isn’t there to take Sun coz then they’d be taking her for 9 months. that would be what? 5 seasons? So if she’s probably not there for Sun, y’s she there?

    pretty sure this has been said earlier, but juliette is pure evil. she’s the friggin devil!!!! her & ben.

    we found out for sure then that claire’s
    “nightmares” were real, so y isn’t anybody – specially sayid or charlie – jumping up & down screaming “juliette’s here for sun’s baby!” Like i said eralier, i don’t think that’s y julliette is their, but still y isn’t anybody thinkin of reasons y she’d be there?

  453. gigi says:

    The video showing Rachel with baby Julian was supposedly live, “real time” right? That makes it daylight, Florida time. What’s confusing is that there are only, roughly 12 hours of daylight, and if you do the math, I don’t think that it could be daylight in Florida and also somewhere in the South Pacific where the island is. Has anyone else thought of this?

    Also, in Korea, Sun’s fertility doctor stops her seperately from Jin to tell her that jin’s the one unable to conceive, not her. So, could the others possibly have overheard that conversation and know Sun to be pregnant (thereby lover being the daddy) or have they found out about Sun being pregnant somehow on the island itself after she announces the news to the rest of the Losties. If that is the case, the others would assume she is a lost cause as she must have conceived on the island itself. They know that the baby has no hope of surviving as it would have to have been conceived on the island as Jin was incapable before (and they surely know this). Therefore, unless scenario one happened, she should hold little interest to the others, pregnant or not.

  454. THE LOST KING says:

    I would Love to see the outside world have a flashback. Maybe on september 22nd 2004 they have a flashback going on for a few days. I would love that. Or maybe we will get Penny flash. But i think the time is same on island and off

  455. Laura says:

    Maybe Juliet flew to the island. When she drives up she says “wow I didn’t even know there was an aiport out here”

    My thoughts when watching again…

    When Juliet tells Sayid that if she tells him everything she knows he’ll kill her. Was that something specific about Sayid perhaps?

    When Jack asks Juliet if she is nervous… is he talking about if she is nervous to follow through with the plan.

    “you created life where life wasn’t supposed to be.” Life isnt supposed to be on the island?

    If Ethan kidnapped Claire to use as a type of control case, then why was Ethan going to kill Claire (when Claire finally remembers what happens Ethan is trying to convince her that she has to die for the baby to live)… so evidently it is not saving the mothers that is important, but allowing hte babies to live.

    It’s weird that Ben is so insistant about the fact that Juliet can’t talk to her sister? Maybe that implies a time differences.

    The symbol on the tree looks like it has been there awhile. Do you think it has been used for other things before? Nevermind used as “Ethan’s old drop point” for medical supplise then?

    Why did Ben skip the book club meeting? He was reading the book… did he know that the plane was heading this way? I know this has been discussed, but although he might not have ahd anything to do with it happening, he could have known the plane was off track/button hadnt bene pushed or something.

    Weird that the plane crashes exactly three years after Juliet gets there. Any significance?

    Ethan tells Richard “you might want to get back here as soon as you can… we might have new visitors” implying Richard can go back and forth.

    Ben says Juliet can’t go bc the agreement is that she has to stay until her work is done. The work that a baby is born? Is that why now she can go (Claire’s baby is born).

    I don’t really think Jack and Juliet are working together because Jack’s speech to Juliet when giving Claire the serum “if this doesnt work I won’t be able to protect you any more…” noone is watching… so there would be no point if Jack was in on that. Also again the conversation at the beach when Jack says everyone will need to know answers and Juliet asks “why don’t I ever have to explain myself to you” another conversation that would be pointless had they been working together.

    Juliet looks at Jin and Sun, Desmond, Claire. Claire bc of the serum, Desmond bc he can relive time? Jin/Sun bc of baby?

  456. Laura says:

    sorry some of that is confusing… I was just too exciting. The last part I was commenting about when Juliet is tying the string on her tent and we hear that it is all a plan we see her look at four groups of people. Those are the four people featured in each group. I was wondering if there was a significance to those people.

  457. Cunduris says:

    In the episode where Others watch plane crash above their heads one of the plane engines catch fire and flies apart. This does not stick with crash site scene – the engine is in place and still running.

  458. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”50320″]I’m german, “Mittelos” means destitute, fundless & moneyless. Although it’s originally written with two “l”s instead. All other translations here were wrong.[/quote]

    Actually, it can also mean “without middle” (Mitte+ middle; -los= without). That meaning could have some significance, since the question of What is in the center of the island? has not been answered yet.

  459. dragonfly says:

    [quote comment=”50567″]I would Love to see the outside world have a flashback. Maybe on september 22nd 2004 they have a flashback going on for a few days. I would love that. Or maybe we will get Penny flash. But i think the time is same on island and off[/quote]
    The producers have hinted several times that the time on and off the island is NOT the same.

  460. wolf5455 says:

    HEY watching One of us got me thinking… if no one except clair has had ababy on the island or are able to have children, then how is ben there? It was sted in an ealrier episode that Ben was on teh island longer then anyone and when asked why it was said because he ws born on teh island.

  461. THE LOST KING says:

    The producers have hinted several times that the time on and off the island is NOT the same.[/quote]

    so how come the date on the news paper was sep 22 04 and thats when the flight crashed?

  462. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50628″]HEY watching One of us got me thinking… if no one except clair has had ababy on the island or are able to have children, then how is ben there? It was sted in an ealrier episode that Ben was on teh island longer then anyone and when asked why it was said because he ws born on teh island.[/quote]

    and thats a very very very very valid point. He implied he was born there, thats a very good point.

  463. wolf5455 says:

    ya i thought soo
    so id Ben even like human mabey hes a clone of test tube kind of thing any other theories

  464. wolf5455 says:

    Also how as alex born on the island.. whats GOING ON!!!

  465. MKS says:

    We have already had this discussion. The problem is with no babies being born on the island that were also CONCEIVED on the island. We don’t know that Ben was conceived on the island, but we know Alex wasn’t and neither was Aaron. That is why it will be interesting to find out wheter Sun got pregnant on the island, or before she got there.

  466. dragonfly says:

    [quote comment=”50629″]The producers have hinted several times that the time on and off the island is NOT the same.[/quote]

    so how come the date on the news paper was sep 22 04 and thats when the flight crashed?[/quote]
    Just because the newspaper headline was taken the same day the flight crashed doesn’t mean that time is really linear- it only implies it. I can guarantee we will later find out that time on the island is not the same as time off the island. I think time in the outside world moves faster than time on the island, which would explain the whole “you’ll be amazed at how time flies once you’re there” comment in this episode. When/if Juliet ever gets to go back into the real world, her sister will probably be significantly older than than Juliet would have imagined.

  467. fish says:

    hi I really enjoy reading your comments 🙂
    could someone please clarify this for me? i’ve been reading here that the others lost communication with the outside world at some point, so when jack was captured by the others and ben showed him a video of a football team or whatever, that wasn’t live right? also, i remember that once hugo and sayid found a radio and they could hear a music station? was that before or after the others lost communication with outside world?
    thanks!

  468. LostDamery says:

    Awesome almost 500 comments!
    I just had a thought…
    What if someone falls into a cave and the show becomes like “Beneath the planet of the Apes” where a group of people are subterranean and planning on blowing the whole thing up. Remember Rose said the MONSTER sounded like a subway? Many of the Island maps show an underground passage way.

  469. Pinto says:

    maybe children who are concieved on the island and brought back to the mainland have superhuman babies because they were concieved on the island?

  470. lost chicka says:

    great comments so far 🙂

    i really hope that Sun didn’t concieve on the island cause she’s one of my favorites. i think since the whole “who’s baby is it really?” q. has been up since the moment we found out she was, i think that it’s not Jin’s.

    Nobody’s answered my question yet about why Julliette is really there. she’s apparently not there for Sun or her baby unless they plan on keeping her for 5 seasons or however long. i really don’t think she’s there to find out what happened to Goodwin or Ethan, i think they’ve figured out already that they’re both dead. The only other reason i can think of for why she’s there is to kill one of them. So y do y’all think Julliette is there?

  471. DocH says:

    [quote comment=”50715″]So y do y’all think Julliette is there?[/quote]My best guest is that she is there to influence and/or bring back Jack. She is the one that has the tightest bond with him. Under his protection, she can see/observe how the ladies are doing “reproductively”. She has contrived an act of mercy on Claire. Sun may need a quick pap smear. Kate may need a “pee” test to see if she has a Sawyer bun in the oven. However, if it is really a Ben plan, then Jack has to be his main concern, because Jack has been the main focus (of manipultion) since Hydra Island – not Locke, not Kate, not Sawyer. Though Locke is being manipulated heavily too (the box, his dad), Locke isn’t on the list and is now only being recognized as important, because he understands the island on the same level that Ben does.

  472. john locke says:

    or maybe its desmond there after. i mean he does see the future (to a certain extent) and they dont know that much about him, he wasnt researched after the plane crashed, he was hiding in the hatch. so who knows, anythings possible on the island, but i just have a feeling.

  473. chewap says:

    think about the ep “?” where the girl on the airport said to eko:
    “i saw your brother when i was between spaces!”
    huh, does it mean something?

  474. Oliver says:

    @MKS (comment458): Still wrong. The ending “Los” in that case wouldn’t mean without, but loose. Nobody in Germany would say/use that word anyway. However Mittel(l)os is a very common word in Germany. Your right translation would be “Ohne Mitte” or “Keine Mitte”. In reference to the theme, I would guess it means something like having no cargo, equipment, skills, money, etc.

  475. Oliver says:

    Btw, Lostpedia seconds my translation:
    -http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Mittelos
    I just made a phone call and my buddy who is big Lost fan, too, said it could refer to the fact that no babies can be born on the island, meaning literally Mittelos Bioscience has not yet the “skills” to solve that problem.

  476. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50448″]The video showing Rachel with baby Julian was supposedly live, “real time” right? That makes it daylight, Florida time. What’s confusing is that there are only, roughly 12 hours of daylight, and if you do the math, I don’t think that it could be daylight in Florida and also somewhere in the South Pacific where the island is. Has anyone else thought of this?
    [/quote]

    [quote comment=”50609″]
    …..

    It’s weird that Ben is so insistant about the fact that Juliet can’t talk to her sister? Maybe that implies a time differences.

    …..

    Ethan tells Richard “you might want to get back here as soon as you can… we might have new visitors” implying Richard can go back and forth.

    [/quote]

    I’ve always been suspicious about that video feed of Rachel and Julian, and of Ben’s insistence that Juliet can’t talk to Rachel, and that she can’t leave the island, and the comments I’ve quoted reinforce that.

    Gigi made a GREAT point and it’s pretty obvious so I’m kicking myself for not picking up on it sooner. It’s doubtful, and maybe even impossible that it would be daylight at the same time in Florida and on the island. However, in the past I think there have been discussions about the inconsistencies in the times given related to the plane crash – it departed at 2:55 pm Sydney time, and crashed about 8 hours later, which would mean the crash occured around 11 pm Sydney time, which is about 9 am in the eastern US. Yet it was daylight on the island? Granted, we don’t know exactly where the island is, so it could be a few time zones away from Sydney. But the plane supposedly flew east from Sydney, towards LA, after 6 hours, it turned back towards Fiji and after 2 more hours it crashed. If we trust all of that info, I don’t think the plane could have traveled far enough to reach an island where it was still daylight.

    So what does that mean? Just a continuity error? Or is there some time travel to get to the island?

    The video feed of Rachel – I think this was all a fake. My guess is that the island is ahead of the real world in time. So it is possible to obtain a copy of the Miami newspaper with the Sept. 22 date on it, and then hold it in front of a camera that was taking video of Rachel and Julian. Or, it could have been created by Ben, or Richard, or Mikhail, and then edited into some video of Rachel. Juliet has no way of determining if that newspaper is a fake. Also, in that scene Ben is supposedly giving instructions to Richard, but we never hear Richard talk. Granted, Ben had headphones on so it’s possible that Richard’s voice was coming through on the headphones, but I think that was another part of the deception, along with Ben telling Richard to come back to the island, so Juliet wouldn’t be suspicious that Richard didn’t talk back. Ben had to do this because Richard wasn’t there in Miami with Rachel.

    So generally I think that Rachel’s cancer never came back, and she never had to be cured again – that was all a ploy (lie) by Ben to get Juliet to stay. Then Rachel had the baby, and the Others obtained video footage of them to show Juliet at the necessary time to make it seem to her that Rachel is fine (much like they showed Jack the footage of the Red Sox winning the World Series). They probably had taken video of Rachel and Julian at various points in time and have this library of video footage they can show Juliet depending on what they want Juliet to see and think. And if the island time is later than the real world time the Others can have copies of or video footage of the Miami Journal from various days in the past so they can insert it as needed into the video of Rachel.

    Ben can’t allow Juliet to leave, or even to talk to Rachel, because of the chance that Juliet would discover all of this.

    (sorry for rambling)

  477. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50654″][quote comment=”50629″]The producers have hinted several times that the time on and off the island is NOT the same.[/quote]

    so how come the date on the news paper was sep 22 04 and thats when the flight crashed?[/quote]
    Just because the newspaper headline was taken the same day the flight crashed doesn’t mean that time is really linear- it only implies it. I can guarantee we will later find out that time on the island is not the same as time off the island. I think time in the outside world moves faster than time on the island, which would explain the whole “you’ll be amazed at how time flies once you’re there” comment in this episode. When/if Juliet ever gets to go back into the real world, her sister will probably be significantly older than than Juliet would have imagined.[/quote]

    well penny didnt look significantly older in the season 2 finale last minutes.

  478. THE LOST KING says:

    i am 100% positive that the island is on the same time as the outside world. It has been implied strongly they are not but we have got proof. the date on the failsafe when the plane crashed was sep 22 04, and we have heard from the outside world that was the date.

    so the time in thehatch and the time on the outside are the same

  479. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”50847″]i am 100% positive that the island is on the same time as the outside world. It has been implied strongly they are not but we have got proof. the date on the failsafe when the plane crashed was sep 22 04, and we have heard from the outside world that was the date.

    so the time in thehatch and the time on the outside are the same[/quote]
    I don’t think this is conclusive proof. You may be very well correct that the island time is exactly the same as the outside world time, but I’m trying to find an explanation for the time issues that have come up on the show.

    It could be that the computers responsible for the printout that indicated the plane crash on Sept 22 2004 were programmed with the same date as the outside world, even though the actual date on the island is different, if tha makes sense. I’m thinking that the island time progresses at the same rate as real world time, but it happens to be shifted so that the island is a day, a week, a month, a year, or some other fixed period of time ahead of the island. So, for example, what was Sept 22, 2004 in the real world, was acually Sept 22, 2005 on the island (just as an example). So, people on the plane traveled forward in time to arrive at the island, and the Others have the ability to see what has transpired in the intervening year in the outside world. Then, if people travel off the island, they travel back in time so they get back into the time line of the outside world.

    Hmmm…the more I think about this the more problems I see with my theory. But I do think there’s something suspicious about that video of Rachel and Julian, and about how adamant Ben is that Juliet cannot talk to Rachel.

  480. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”50223″]i saw someone mention this earlier, so i had to take a gander for myself…and now i’m pretty convinced….that it IS MICHAEL on the sub. with juliette at the 11:44 mark.
    what to you guys think?!?!? this has my gears turning; now i’m thinking about walt’s mom’s death…and a billion other things…

    http://www.cafepress.com/shelloniusjunk/2833640%5B/quote%5D
    That was me, I was hoping someone could find the credits that show it is NOT him. But if you freeze the video, his profile is VERY similar to Michael.

  481. MKS says:

    Maybe the reason Ben does not want Juliette to talk to Rachel is because Rachel is one of them. We saw Ethan exiting her building before Juliette ever met him, and she encouraged Juliette to go with the Dharma people. My suspicion is that she really was cured of cancer thnaks to Jacob before Juliette had left and made a deal with Dharma.

  482. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”50771″]@MKS (comment458): Still wrong. The ending “Los” in that case wouldn’t mean without, but loose. Nobody in Germany would say/use that word anyway. However Mittel(l)os is a very common word in Germany. Your right translation would be “Ohne Mitte” or “Keine Mitte”. In reference to the theme, I would guess it means something like having no cargo, equipment, skills, money, etc.[/quote]

    Oliver, I know that the word Mittelos would not be used in Germany nowadays. However, it is a word that has been used to indicate “without middle/ center” in several older works of German literature. Read- Goethe, Abendroth, Sachs, Burke, Jandl,… especially in poetry. I assume that the real meaning within Lost context is an anagram for Lost Time, I was merely pointing out another possibility. (Uebrigens, wo befindest du dich? Von wie du schreibst nehme ich an du wohnst jetzt in den Staaten.)

  483. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”50865″][quote comment=”50223″]i saw someone mention this earlier, so i had to take a gander for myself…and now i’m pretty convinced….that it IS MICHAEL on the sub. with juliette at the 11:44 mark.
    what to you guys think?!?!? this has my gears turning; now i’m thinking about walt’s mom’s death…and a billion other things…

    http://www.cafepress.com/shelloniusjunk/2833640

    That was me, I was hoping someone could find the credits that show it is NOT him. But if you freeze the video, his profile is VERY similar to Michael.[/quote]

    I stopped it too….didn’t think it was Michael.

    Credits only show speaking parts. According to imdb.com, Harold Perrineau did not receive credit for being in this episode.

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0674782/

  484. C4 says:

    @MKS/Oliver – Mittelos
    First: I agree with Oliver; it makes sense, that “mitte[l]los” could mean impecunious/ indigent. The fact, that it’s a name of a company would confirm this choise. But I think an anagram is the most reasonable solution for this mysterious question 😉
    @MKS: NEVER heard of this “mitte-los” in older german literature, please post some quotes from Goethe, Abendroth, Sachs, Burke, Jandl; if there are any. thanx 🙂
    (Btw:|| Von wie || du schreibst … nobody would say somethink like this in Germany 😉 the better way would be: “An der Art, wie Du schreibst …”

  485. txflw says:

    [quote comment=”50884″][quote comment=”50865″][quote comment=”50223″]i saw someone mention this earlier, so i had to take a gander for myself…and now i’m pretty convinced….that it IS MICHAEL on the sub. with juliette at the 11:44 mark.
    what to you guys think?!?!? this has my gears turning; now i’m thinking about walt’s mom’s death…and a billion other things…

    http://www.cafepress.com/shelloniusjunk/2833640

    That was me, I was hoping someone could find the credits that show it is NOT him. But if you freeze the video, his profile is VERY similar to Michael.[/quote]

    I stopped it too….didn’t think it was Michael.

    Credits only show speaking parts. According to imdb.com, Harold Perrineau did not receive credit for being in this episode.

    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0674782/%5B/quote%5D
    In the episode “The Man from Tallahassee”, Kate makes contact with Jack and is taken at gunpoint by several “Others”. One of these looks very similar to Michael but we know it is not because we can see his face. I belive the man on the sub is the gentleman that looks similar but not Michael.

  486. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”50891″]@MKS/Oliver – Mittelos
    First: I agree with Oliver; it makes sense, that “mitte[l]los” could mean impecunious/ indigent. The fact, that it’s a name of a company would confirm this choise. But I think an anagram is the most reasonable solution for this mysterious question 😉
    @MKS: NEVER heard of this “mitte-los” in older german literature, please post some quotes from Goethe, Abendroth, Sachs, Burke, Jandl; if there are any. thanx 🙂
    (Btw:|| Von wie || du schreibst … nobody would say somethink like this in Germany 😉 the better way would be: “An der Art, wie Du schreibst …”[/quote]

    Sorry, I’m Austrian, but I do have a Master’s in Germanistik and German Lit. from the Karl-Franzens Uni in Graz.

  487. lost chicka says:

    if the time was different on the island, don’t you think Julliette would’ve noticed after being there for 3 years that hours on the island seem more like 15 minutes or 2 hours? and the losties would probably figure out that the day is to short or to long too?

  488. lost chicka says:

    go to spoilerslost.blogspot.com if u love spoilers like me… i gasped at the spoilers for every episode!!!! it looks like the next 5 episodes are going to be the best yet!!!!! 🙂

  489. Wingman says:

    Hi,new to the blog and it’s great…I posted this in the “Is Juliet evil” thread, but I guess it was suppose to go here…

    This episode was as brilliant as it was frustrating and to me personally dissapointing in a way (Not the ep but the revelation)…Again the execution of the episode was great..

    I’ll just cut the crap and get right to it…

    While we don’t know everything and can only piece a few things together it seems this “island” is indeed JUST a research facility/experiment of some sort…Any thoughts of it maybe being some spiritial or supernatural hidden place with no connection to reality was shattered with this ep…What I loved about the island was the mystery of it’s origin but now it seems that this is all some man-made or man-infested scenerio…Yeah there may be a wormhole or an anomoly, but this episode suggests that Ben and a selective group of “The Others” knows what this place is, how to get there and how to get back if need be…So I guess I’m a bit dissapointed that (atleast for now) we are operating on the assumption that this island is easily connected to the outside world…That’s kind of a bummer for me and some of my theories…

    What I can piece together based on this ep goes as follows…

    -Juliet (ruling out manipulation here) was probably drugged so she wouldn’t learn about passing thru the worm-hole via the sub

    -The entire project of Ben’s group pertains to finding an absolute cure to cancer and/or fertility

    -Contact to the outside world isn’t only availible but seems to be an easy given
    (This totally kills my enthusiam for us seeing Locke’s dad since I suspect some detectives just brought him to the island rather than him just appearing in “the box”)

    -Juliet isn’t evil she’s just playing any and every game that is presented to her with the goal of giving herself whatever option she may need to get off the island (Why burn bridges with Ben when you can play both sides vs. the middle and take the side of whoever can get you the hell off that island first?)

    As for Juliet I truley think she dispises Ben and regardless of him saving her sister, the way he has lied and manipulated her and how he is basically using her love for her sister as a weapon is to blame for this…

    The only question I have is was the sub-explosion from a few weeks ago even real in the first place? Was Juliet in on that or did she decide to gravitate back towards Ben after it happened? Juliet is indeed a very interesting character and the way they made us love and trust her before they made many of us hate her is probably the true life she leads on that island…

    My super dooper crazy theory that’s probably not close to being true is that the island is far, faaaaaaaaaar in the future and probably the only place left in civilization and they have to find a solution for stabalizing fertility or ending cancer to have a chance at not becoming extinct…They go back and forth thru the worm-hole bringing in specialist in an attempt to stop civilization from somehow getting to this point…Yeah nuts huh??

  490. MKS says:

    Wingman- I’m not sure I buy that Children of MEn scenario. If they were trying to save civilization because of infertility and they were able to travel between the island and the rest of the world, they would probably get some fertile women and men to do the work with. It doesn’t really make sense for them to rely on the random passangers of a crashed plane. Especially since we are now left with only a few woman of childbearing age. Plus you would think they would try to keep more of them alive (i.e Shannon, Libby, Anna Lucia, Nikki,…).

  491. Wingman says:

    [quote comment=”50907″]Wingman- I’m not sure I buy that Children of MEn scenario. If they were trying to save civilization because of infertility and they were able to travel between the island and the rest of the world, they would probably get some fertile women and men to do the work with. It doesn’t really make sense for them to rely on the random passangers of a crashed plane. Especially since we are now left with only a few woman of childbearing age. Plus you would think they would try to keep more of them alive (i.e Shannon, Libby, Anna Lucia, Nikki,…).[/quote]

    That’s the thing though, if you get random passengers who know nothing about the island and even less about the indiviuals involved you have a better chance at overall secrecy…I mean how many fertile men and woman are you gonna get to drink some “knock-out O.J.” as you secretly ship them off on some inane fantastic journey? Then there is the matter of finding only “good people” who would take a bribe of some sort to even take part in the experiment.

  492. Omar Kamel says:

    Haven’t read all the new posts, so I hope I’m not repeating something somebody has already said…

    I think I might’ve worked at least one thing out – the reason they know about Sawyer’s killing that guy in Australia before the plane crash is because he was set up to do it by Locke’s father, the ‘real’ Sawyer. And we already know he’s now on the Island.

    There 🙂

  493. Laura says:

    I was wondering what everyone else thought about a comparison of Claire’s implant to Mikhail’s reaction to going through the fence. I thought they were suspiciously similar… but maybe I’m way off here. I’d love to hear everyone else’s opinion. 🙂

  494. ro-zgee says:

    [quote comment=”50919″]I was wondering what everyone else thought about a comparison of Claire’s implant to Mikhail’s reaction to going through the fence. I thought they were suspiciously similar… but maybe I’m way off here. I’d love to hear everyone else’s opinion. :)[/quote]
    I don’t know, but I think it may be farfetched. Although we don’t know the trouble the Others will go to in planning way out for an eventuality. Ben, the master manipulator seems to strategize as if it were all a big chess game. Maybe Jack, Kate, and Sawyer all have some kind of implanted toxin waiting to be activated someday when its convenient.

    Your comment set off some thoughts about how suspicious we are of everything that happens on Lost – did the sub/the flame really get destroyed? Did Christian/Paulikki/Mikhail really die? Are the visions real or manifestations of the somoke monster?

    One other thought I’ve had that has been bugging me – Locke blew up the hatch and therefore obliterated the Others’ ability to have contact with the outside world. Then he blew up the Flame which was their communications hub. Then he killed their (valuable) communications guru. Then he blew up their submarine. So remind me – why have they accepted him? Because he can walk??? Anyone else and they’d be branded or worse!!

  495. lost chicka says:

    something tells me (lost spoiler website i listed earlier – oops!) that u just might be right…….

    about the whole julliette good or evil debate, i don’t know which she is (evil or good but i’m leaning a bit towards the evil) but she seems to be a pretty stupid person. yes, she can get a male mouse & her sister w/ cancer preggers

  496. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment=”50935″]something tells me (lost spoiler website i listed earlier – oops!) that u just might be right…….

    about the whole julliette good or evil debate, i don’t know which she is (evil or good but i’m leaning a bit towards the evil) but she seems to be a pretty stupid person. yes, she can get a male mouse & her sister w/ cancer preggers[/quote]

    sorry pressed the sumbit button accidentally. anyways i think julliette is pretty stupid cause 1) she knew that the island wasn’t a “real” hospital or lab, 2) she drank the knock out OJ like there was a gun pointed at her that we couldn’t see (hmmmm…was there?), 3)she knew that she wouldn’t be able to make contact with her sister or anyone else for 6 months, 4)she lets Ben manipulate her for 3 years, 5) she signed the papers which i’m sure gave her some hint of all the crap she was gonna get… see my point?

  497. Pinto says:

    Why did Juliet ask Kate to get Jack for her when she could’ve just talked to jack herself?

    please reply:)

  498. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”50937″][quote comment=”50935″]something tells me (lost spoiler website i listed earlier – oops!) that u just might be right…….

    about the whole julliette good or evil debate, i don’t know which she is (evil or good but i’m leaning a bit towards the evil) but she seems to be a pretty stupid person. yes, she can get a male mouse & her sister w/ cancer preggers[/quote]

    sorry pressed the sumbit button accidentally. anyways i think julliette is pretty stupid cause 1) she knew that the island wasn’t a “real” hospital or lab, 2) she drank the knock out OJ like there was a gun pointed at her that we couldn’t see (hmmmm…was there?), 3)she knew that she wouldn’t be able to make contact with her sister or anyone else for 6 months, 4)she lets Ben manipulate her for 3 years, 5) she signed the papers which i’m sure gave her some hint of all the crap she was gonna get… see my point?[/quote]
    ____________
    Stupid or Brainwashed?

    I tend towards brainwashing of some kind. Whoever this Jacob is (maybe he doesn’t even exist) and whatever he represents has the Other’s simply peeing themselves to do his bidding. I think he doesn’t actually exist as a person but rather as an ideal that keeps the Others in submission, and Ben is the Wizard behind the curtain like in Oz. Jacob is the big scary face that keeps people in line, but Ben is man behind the curtain.

    As far as Juliet choosing to go to the island: someone offered her somthing pretty desirable to get her to agree to go to the island and do her research. And once she was there, they did something significant to keep her. Now we may not know what all of this is yet, but whoever person she was before she got to the island is significantly altered byt the experiences she had while she lived there. We cannot assume that she is incapable of anything, including killing Losties even Jack.

    To Those Debating Time On the Island:

    I’m with Drangonfly on this one. There are definite time inconsistencies throughout the episodes and references made by several characters about time and its speed in the shows. Ethan made a point to tell Juliet that “time flies” on the island and gave her heavy tranqs to put her out during the trip to the island. I don’t know that time moves slwoer or faster on the island or not, but I tend to think that the island itself exists outside of traditional time, almost like a bird’s eye view sort of theory which allows those on it to observe and potentially record what is happening on Earth proper while existing in a self contained time outside of it.

    Time is a significant factor in the mythology of the island and I don’t think we can dismiss any ideas that there are time differences between wherever the island is with respect to the “outside” world.

  499. THE LOST KING says:

    OKAY, time is in fact the SAME on and off the island. we have hard evidence. the survivors say that the date they crashed was sep 22 04. desmond didnt push the button the day they arrived and the date on the sheet was 22 04 sep. and the live feed was sep 22 04 from the park!

    SOMEONE TELL ME HOW ALL THAT CAN BE WRONG!

    oh yeah, in ep the glass ballerina ben actually tells jack they crashed on sep 22 04. AND HE SAID HE DIDNT LIE!

    WE HAVE HARD EVIDENCE THAT IT IS THE SAME TIME ON AND OFF THE ISLAND.

  500. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”50949″]Why did Juliet ask Kate to get Jack for her when she could’ve just talked to jack herself?

    please reply:)[/quote]

    i suppose she was new to camp and was a bit nervous of just going up into the camp and taking charge so she asked kate. i dunno though

  501. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”51045″]OKAY, time is in fact the SAME on and off the island. we have hard evidence. the survivors say that the date they crashed was sep 22 04. desmond didnt push the button the day they arrived and the date on the sheet was 22 04 sep. and the live feed was sep 22 04 from the park!

    SOMEONE TELL ME HOW ALL THAT CAN BE WRONG!
    [/quote]

    See my comments #476 and #479 for some possible (perhaps far-fetched, but possible) ways that could all be wrong

    [quote comment=”51045″]

    oh yeah, in ep the glass ballerina ben actually tells jack they crashed on sep 22 04. AND HE SAID HE DIDNT LIE!
    [/quote]

    Maybe Ben was lying when he said he doesn’t lie.

  502. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”51045″]OKAY, time is in fact the SAME on and off the island. we have hard evidence. the survivors say that the date they crashed was sep 22 04. desmond didnt push the button the day they arrived and the date on the sheet was 22 04 sep. and the live feed was sep 22 04 from the park!

    SOMEONE TELL ME HOW ALL THAT CAN BE WRONG!

    oh yeah, in ep the glass ballerina ben actually tells jack they crashed on sep 22 04. AND HE SAID HE DIDNT LIE!

    WE HAVE HARD EVIDENCE THAT IT IS THE SAME TIME ON AND OFF THE ISLAND.[/quote]

    Not saying that it is wrong, but here’s how it can be wrong.

    Ben is known liar and manipulator. We don’t know that the feed was live. We don’t know that the computers weren’t manipulated. And most of all, we don’t know what date it is on the island during each episode.

  503. MKS says:

    Not saying that it is wrong, but here’s how it can be wrong.

    Ben is known liar and manipulator. We don’t know that the feed was live. We don’t know that the computers weren’t manipulated. And most of all, we don’t know what date it is on the island during each episode.[/quote]

    We may not know if the feed was live, but the flight took off on the 22nd, the feed was from the 22nd (according to Ben), and the plane crashed the same day. The only way this did not happen on the same day is if the plane flew around in limbo for a time.

  504. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”51045″]OKAY, time is in fact the SAME on and off the island. we have hard evidence. the survivors say that the date they crashed was sep 22 04. desmond didnt push the button the day they arrived and the date on the sheet was 22 04 sep. and the live feed was sep 22 04 from the park!

    SOMEONE TELL ME HOW ALL THAT CAN BE WRONG!

    oh yeah, in ep the glass ballerina ben actually tells jack they crashed on sep 22 04. AND HE SAID HE DIDNT LIE!

    WE HAVE HARD EVIDENCE THAT IT IS THE SAME TIME ON AND OFF THE ISLAND.[/quote]

    Nothing Ben says can be considered hard evidence of anything. Period.

  505. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”51074″][quote comment=”51045″]OKAY, time is in fact the SAME on and off the island. we have hard evidence. the survivors say that the date they crashed was sep 22 04. desmond didnt push the button the day they arrived and the date on the sheet was 22 04 sep. and the live feed was sep 22 04 from the park!

    SOMEONE TELL ME HOW ALL THAT CAN BE WRONG!

    oh yeah, in ep the glass ballerina ben actually tells jack they crashed on sep 22 04. AND HE SAID HE DIDNT LIE!

    WE HAVE HARD EVIDENCE THAT IT IS THE SAME TIME ON AND OFF THE ISLAND.[/quote]

    Nothing Ben says can be considered hard evidence of anything. Period.[/quote]

    ————————————–

    but desmond’s sheet saying sep 22 04 and the survivors saying thats when they crashed. and the button brought the plane down that day

  506. Tasha says:

    It’s not just the time on the island…Does everyone REALLY believe this island is somewhere in the Pacific Ocean? What kind of island could have a different time in the Pacific Ocean? So for everyone that believes that time is an issue, then where the heck are they? It’s like Sawyer said on the raft…”How could a place this big not be discovered?” Unless it’s a well known island. So maybe if we figure out where or what this island is…then we can figure out why time is all whacky!

  507. lost chicka says:

    i think that this has already been said but for all we know the island could be a decade behind or century ahead for all we know…it could be the same month & day but a different year. if the time on the island is different it could definitely be days ahead or behind.

  508. ann says:

    two comments:

    could Carl and Alex not use a condon and thus avoid pregnancy/death (lol) and

    did Sun and Michael not have an affair earlier in the series before he left on the raft with Sawyer, Walt and Jin. Before she made her peace with Jin. Which would make Michael the Daddy.

    Great site

  509. Hurley's Dad says:

    I personally don’t buy the theory that Ben didn’t want Karl and Alex together because he was afraid she’d get pregnant. It’s much more plausible for a father (or pseudo-father) to just plain not want his 16 year old daughter with anyone.

    There’s another reason he doesn’t want it. The most logical are:
    A) Karl did something that Ben didn’t like or
    B) Karl and Alex are related by blood somehow

    One other thing to remember about Ben. Just because he lies (and again, it’s not as often as most people think) doesn’t mean he lies every time he opens his mouth.

  510. Tina says:

    Michael and Sun didn’t have an affair. They were close friends. Perhaps the show hinted at the possibility of Sun straying, but as far as I know she didn’t.

    We don’t know where the island is or in what time it exists. Everything on the island is being manipulated and I’m sorry Lost King, but Damon and carlton have already denied in a podcast that Desmond’s not pushing the button brought down the plane, so regardless of what the newspaper says or the date on the print out, it doesn’t mean the plane went down on the day you claim which lends creedance to the theory that time moves differently on the island.

    In the pilot episode Charlie asks the question, “Where are we?” which to me is one of the singular mysteries of the entire show. I find it unlikely that with modern geographic and cartographical equipment that that island, if it IS in the pacific ocean somewhere has yet to be discovered by someone. I don’t buy the Bermuda Triangl theory and I certainly don’t think the Other’s are aliens, but time and space anomolies I think are possible. This show has proven to be far too smart so far for us to assume that what we see is exactly what we’re going to get. So that being said, I think Tasha is right when she said that if we can figure out WHERE the island is, we can begin to piece together why the heck time seems to be moving so strangely within the episodes.

  511. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”51252″]Michael and Sun didn’t have an affair. They were close friends. Perhaps the show hinted at the possibility of Sun straying, but as far as I know she didn’t.

    We don’t know where the island is or in what time it exists. Everything on the island is being manipulated and I’m sorry Lost King, but Damon and carlton have already denied in a podcast that Desmond’s not pushing the button brought down the plane, so regardless of what the newspaper says or the date on the print out, it doesn’t mean the plane went down on the day you claim which lends creedance to the theory that time moves differently on the island.

    In the pilot episode Charlie asks the question, “Where are we?” which to me is one of the singular mysteries of the entire show. I find it unlikely that with modern geographic and cartographical equipment that that island, if it IS in the pacific ocean somewhere has yet to be discovered by someone. I don’t buy the Bermuda Triangl theory and I certainly don’t think the Other’s are aliens, but time and space anomolies I think are possible. This show has proven to be far too smart so far for us to assume that what we see is exactly what we’re going to get. So that being said, I think Tasha is right when she said that if we can figure out WHERE the island is, we can begin to piece together why the heck time seems to be moving so strangely within the episodes.[/quote]

    okay then, if desmond didnt bring the plane down then how come the survivors say they crashed sep 22 04 and ben had the date as 22 04 sep on the newspaper.

    proving ben is NOT lying about the date and it is in fact the same time on and off the island. i dont understand why everyone denies time on and off the same when i have just given proof!

    and in an interview yun jin kim (sun) says that she dosent know who the baby’s dad is, it may not even be jin or jae lee’s.

  512. THE LOST KING says:

    the others praise Jacob so much, could the others be a cult on the island and he is there god? and he recruits the best people from around the world. andi doubt ben is jacob’s son because he calls him by his real name.

    and i think alex and karl are not brother and sister but i think ben knows karl is a bad influence on alex and whats rid of him

  513. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”51275″]
    okay then, if desmond didnt bring the plane down then how come the survivors say they crashed sep 22 04 and ben had the date as 22 04 sep on the newspaper.

    proving ben is NOT lying about the date and it is in fact the same time on and off the island. i dont understand why everyone denies time on and off the same when i have just given proof!
    [/quote]
    I think what some of us have been saying is this is not definitive proof. On the surface it appears to be, but it is possible it may not be. Knowing what we know about Ben, that he manipulates and “lies” to other people to get them to do what he wants, it is possible (not definite, but possible) that the video could have been faked. If there is some kind of difference between time on the island and time in the real world (for example, to get to the island you have to travel into the future), it is possible that Ben, Richard, Ethan, Mikhail, and others “in the know” try to conceal this information from other people like Juliet. So as far as Juliet knows, if she’s been keeping track on a calendar, she’s been there for approximately 3 years so the date is Sept 22 2004. But, if she traveled into the future to get to the island, maybe the date in island time is Oct 22, 2004 (for example), and because of this, the Others on the island have access to information about events that occurred in the real world between Sept 22 and Oct 22, and could easily create a video of Rachel with a newspaper dated Sept 22.

  514. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”51275″][quote comment=”51252″]

    proving ben is NOT lying about the date and it is in fact the same time on and off the island. i dont understand why everyone denies time on and off the same when i have just given proof!

    [/quote]Because Ben is a known liar and manipulater so the “proof” you site CAN be totally contrived by Ben(this is what he does). Not to mention, the many clues the show is dropping on us that time is something we should be paying more attention to. We still do not know “when” or “where” the island is.

  515. Toeknee says:

    I doubt this will happen, but I would LOVE to see Sayid go get Rousseau and bring her back to confront Juliet while she’s living with the Losties.

  516. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”51280″][quote comment=”51275″]
    okay then, if desmond didnt bring the plane down then how come the survivors say they crashed sep 22 04 and ben had the date as 22 04 sep on the newspaper.

    proving ben is NOT lying about the date and it is in fact the same time on and off the island. i dont understand why everyone denies time on and off the same when i have just given proof!
    [/quote]
    I think what some of us have been saying is this is not definitive proof. On the surface it appears to be, but it is possible it may not be. Knowing what we know about Ben, that he manipulates and “lies” to other people to get them to do what he wants, it is possible (not definite, but possible) that the video could have been faked. If there is some kind of difference between time on the island and time in the real world (for example, to get to the island you have to travel into the future), it is possible that Ben, Richard, Ethan, Mikhail, and others “in the know” try to conceal this information from other people like Juliet. So as far as Juliet knows, if she’s been keeping track on a calendar, she’s been there for approximately 3 years so the date is Sept 22 2004. But, if she traveled into the future to get to the island, maybe the date in island time is Oct 22, 2004 (for example), and because of this, the Others on the island have access to information about events that occurred in the real world between Sept 22 and Oct 22, and could easily create a video of Rachel with a newspaper dated Sept 22.[/quote]

    But- when Ben shows Juliette her sister and the paper with the September 22, 2004 date, it is also the same day on which the flight crashes. The flight took off on September 22, 2004. So, once again, unless the plane was flying around somewhere in la-la land, the flight took off and crashed on 9/22/04. While you argue that Ben might have been using old footage of the paper and Rachel to manipulate Juliette, it still does not explain the plane crash of that day.

  517. marco says:

    well having watched equilibrium the other day something occured to me. maybe the whole ben/jacob thing is what they had in place with that father guy! it could be a twist that all of the others turn on ben, and it would end up that ben needs the losties, but hey thats a long shot!

  518. Tina says:

    The crash may well have occured on that day, however the newspaper could be contrived or the survivors could be brainwashed. I’m sure if I sat here for a while I could think of a million reasons and how tos for why the newspaper says 9/22/04 or why there’s film of rachel and the survivor’s belief they crashed that day. I just want people to stop jumping to such strict conclusions about the series when there are extremely obvious clues that time is a huge factor in the show. I mean for pepte’s sake Desmond may or may not have time travelled! If that’s a possibility then why isn’t time moving at different intervals/speeds/all at once also a possibility? Where is the mystery & imagination if we can’t theorize about physics and time/space anomalies?

    thanks for the support Toeknee & Hammer & MKS

  519. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”51294″]I doubt this will happen, but I would LOVE to see Sayid go get Rousseau and bring her back to confront Juliet while she’s living with the Losties.[/quote]

    That would be just as awesome as a Rousseau flashback episode. Freaking sweet.

  520. marco says:

    oh and also i think that the whole time travel thing is a load of rubbish, it seems that people are reading too much into it! through the desmond episode we saw what desmond now remembered, he started to make links in his mind that “if only i had done this” or “if i had said that”
    i personally dont think its a good road to go down with the whole time travel business, i would prefer it if the series ended up being in the real world and that everything has an explanation, otherwise the writers(if the run out of ideas or the show gets dropped) could just throw in any random rubbish and claim that its the nature of the show!
    also i think that is was quite significant they showed penny finding the magnetic anomaly when the button wasnt pushed, and so i think that time on the island is the same as time in the real world!
    ramble on 🙂

  521. lost chicka says:

    i think it would be cool if danielle beat the crap out of julliette if sayid is really gonna stick with his no-more-torturing-for-the-50th- time-this-time-i-swear.

    i agree with marco about the Desmond Show we had a while bakc. it could just be to get everybody’s heads turnin & then have us find out that it was just him beating himself up over all the things he should’ve done.

    ben is a father and like most he’s probably dying for Alex to dump Karl & thought he’d help speed it up a little. it could just be that he didn’t want to think about his baby girl being with somebody & decided he could con Karl into doing something stupid so he could put him in the zoo. it would also explain why Alex is so mad at him: she’s mad that Karl is in the zoo and that the only reason he’s in there is cause her dad tricked him into doing something stupid. of course she could just be mad at him cause he gave her favorite dress to Kate….

  522. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”51304″]
    But- when Ben shows Juliette her sister and the paper with the September 22, 2004 date, it is also the same day on which the flight crashes. The flight took off on September 22, 2004. So, once again, unless the plane was flying around somewhere in la-la land, the flight took off and crashed on 9/22/04. While you argue that Ben might have been using old footage of the paper and Rachel to manipulate Juliette, it still does not explain the plane crash of that day.[/quote]

    What I’m saying is that to get to the island, time travel is involved. The island is on a different timeline than the rest of the world; same world, different timeline. I’m not 100% convinced this is true, I’m just throwing a theory out there. And I don’t have all the logistics of it worked out – everytime I think about it I get more and more confused so I’ll try to explain it in a not-too confusing way.

    For anyone to get to the island, they are travelling into the future. This includes Oceanic 815. They left Sydney on 9/22 and as far as they know they crashed on 9/22. But the actual date on the island is some date after 9/22; but whether it’s one day, two weeks, three months, four years – who knows? As in my previous comment, let’s say the actual date on the island is Oct. 22. I’m not saying that Oceanic 815 had a one month flight, it still travelled the same 8 hours from take-off to crash. But during the flight is crossed over to the timeline where the island is, where the date is Oct 22.

    In my mind, the logistics of this different timeline are that people on the island have knowledge of things that have happened in the real world prior to the date that example island date of Oct. 22. Does that make sense? Because it is Oct 22 in the island’s timeline, they know what happened on Oct 21, Oct 20, etc all the way back to Sept 22 and before that. Also, through the communication center in the Flame station, they could access news feeds from that period of time. (In a sense, they can see the future. Maybe this explains why, as some have claimed, that Ben almost seemed unsurprised when the plane crashed. Also, perhaps this is related to Desmond’s premonitions of Charlie’s death.) So, when the plane crashed on their island, Mikhail went back to the news feeds of that day, Sept 22, real-world time, as part of demonstrating to Juliet that “this is live” or however Ben put it.

    I don’t know if any of that makes sense to anyone. It’s rather convoluted, and I don’t even know if it all makes sense to me. But I do agree with those who feel there is something unusual about the time on the island and I was trying to offer some possible explanation

    (As a side issue, and I think I and some others mentioned this before, if there were no differences between the time on the island and the time in the real world, I still don’t see how it could be daylight on the island and daylight in Florida at the same time)

  523. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”51309″]I just want people to stop jumping to such strict conclusions about the series when there are extremely obvious clues that time is a huge factor in the show.

    thanks for the support Toeknee & Hammer & MKS[/quote]
    Exactly Tina, I was accused of jumping to conclusions for implying the Kate MIGHT be preggers.

    If you don’t keep an open mind (and let others on this blog help you) then you are not experiencing Lost.

  524. dragonfly says:

    Here’s a theory. I think the island is at the end of time, the apocalypse. Humanity is facing extinction and the Others are on a desperate mission to prevent this course of events, which explains why they kidnap children and are searching for a cure to their fertility problems. In this episode, Richard Alpert said to Juliet, “You created life where life wasn’t supposed to be”. This was a huge clue. Life is not supposed to be on this island! Why? Because it is the end of time and humanity is meant to perish. The others or dharma or whatever are on a dire mission to change this- even at the expense of lying and manipulating people to achieve their goals (i.e. the ends justify the means).

  525. Meg says:

    [quote comment=”51328″]Here’s a theory. I think the island is at the end of time, the apocalypse. Humanity is facing extinction and the Others are on a desperate mission to prevent this course of events, which explains why they kidnap children and are searching for a cure to their fertility problems. In this episode, Richard Alpert said to Juliet, “You created life where life wasn’t supposed to be”. This was a huge clue. Life is not supposed to be on this island! Why? Because it is the end of time and humanity is meant to perish. The others or dharma or whatever are on a dire mission to change this- even at the expense of lying and manipulating people to achieve their goals (i.e. the ends justify the means).[/quote]
    I really like this theory. It adds up with all the other theorys out there that I agree with, you’re just taking it all a bit further and adding them together.

  526. MKS says:

    About the time- daylight in Florida and on the island. I can see two explanations.
    1- We know the flight went off course. We also know (scietifically) that the closer you get to the South Pole, the longer days get, i.e. daylight can last up to 24-hours per day. If we consider that we also saw the men at the South Pole at the end of season 1, the “entrance” to our island could be somewhere around there.
    Also-
    The time difference between Florida and Australia is 14 hours. For example, if it’s 6pm Saturday evening in FL, it is 8am Sunday morning in Sydney- both would have daylight. The plane was flying toward Fiji (after some problems on board), increasing that time difference to 16 hours (making it 10am island time if FL was at 6pm). We only saw a one minute glance at Florida, not knowing what time it was. It could very well have been late afternoon/ early evening, while the Islanders were at mid-morning.

  527. lost chicka says:

    when ben was showing juliette the video of her sister & nephew didn’t he say “this is real time” ?

  528. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”51341″]About the time- daylight in Florida and on the island. I can see two explanations.
    1- We know the flight went off course. We also know (scietifically) that the closer you get to the South Pole, the longer days get, i.e. daylight can last up to 24-hours per day. If we consider that we also saw the men at the South Pole at the end of season 1, the “entrance” to our island could be somewhere around there.
    Also-
    The time difference between Florida and Australia is 14 hours. For example, if it’s 6pm Saturday evening in FL, it is 8am Sunday morning in Sydney- both would have daylight. The plane was flying toward Fiji (after some problems on board), increasing that time difference to 16 hours (making it 10am island time if FL was at 6pm). We only saw a one minute glance at Florida, not knowing what time it was. It could very well have been late afternoon/ early evening, while the Islanders were at mid-morning.[/quote]
    However, in your example, 10 am island time and 6 pm FL time are occurring on different days. For the date to be Sept 22 in both places, it would have to be evening on the island, say 9 pm, and depending on where the island is, the corresponding time in FL would be no later than 7 am (based on the 14-hour difference you cited). Possible, but not likely, IMHO. (You don’t see too many moms & kids out at the playground at 7 am) If the island were east of Sydney, the time difference would be greater, as you indicated.

    Note also the plane departed Sydney around 3 pm, headed east (later in the day, until it crosses the Int’l Date Line) and travelled for around 8 hours. That means the earliest the plane would have landed on the island is 11 pm, if it had the same time as Sydney. I doubt it would be broad daylight, but I may be wrong. (I think this is simply a continuity error or an intentional error on the producers part – they couldn’t very well show the plane falling apart if it were pitch black outside)

  529. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”51345″]when ben was showing juliette the video of her sister & nephew didn’t he say “this is real time” ?[/quote]

    Ben lies.

  530. Toeknee says:

    Also, related to time differences between Florida and the South Pacific, I came across this link on The Fuselage:
    http://www.worldtimeserver.com/meeting-planner-times.aspx?&L0=FJ&L1=US-FL&L2=&L3=&L4=&D=4%2f18%2f2007+12%3a00%3a00+AM

    I didn’t bother verifying that the information in that link is correct. But assuming it is correct, there is actually no point where there is daylight in both locations ON THE SAME DATE.

  531. MKS says:

    Well, what about the idea that the island is somewhere in a “loop hole” or something near the South Pole. The South Pole is usualy given the New Zealand time, but there is no reason for it. It can be in any time zone, or all time zones at once if you want. Maybe that could be a solution to the day-light problem.

  532. Toeknee says:

    [quote comment=”51350″]Well, what about the idea that the island is somewhere in a “loop hole” or something near the South Pole. The South Pole is usualy given the New Zealand time, but there is no reason for it. It can be in any time zone, or all time zones at once if you want. Maybe that could be a solution to the day-light problem.[/quote]
    That is certainly a possibility. Although I would think the longer a location has daylight, the cooler it is, and in September it’s the end of winter in the southern hemisphere.

  533. MKS says:

    I understand that it is a lot colder near the South Pole than it is on our island, but I also think that there is some connection to that part of the world, as that is where the scientist were looking for the signal per Penny’s instructions. It was also in that area that Lenny heard the numbers according to his widow.

  534. lost chicka says:

    the south pole is freezing cold so how could a tropical island exest there?????

    and when i asked my last ? i asked it wrong. When Ben was showing Juliette the video of her sister & nephew didn’t he say “this is real time”? Like real world time, not necassarily island time?

  535. MKS says:

    [quote comment=”51361″]the south pole is freezing cold so how could a tropical island exest there?????

    and when i asked my last ? i asked it wrong. When Ben was showing Juliette the video of her sister & nephew didn’t he say “this is real time”? Like real world time, not necassarily island time?[/quote]

    I think that by real-time Ben just meant that “this is live footage”, not a recording.

  536. Meg says:

    [quote comment=”51361″]the south pole is freezing cold so how could a tropical island exest there?????

    and when i asked my last ? i asked it wrong. When Ben was showing Juliette the video of her sister & nephew didn’t he say “this is real time”? Like real world time, not necassarily island time?[/quote]
    Thats a very good point.

  537. Katie says:

    Long time lurker, first time poster!

    Great episode, and great discussion! I think I totally was steered in the direction that the director wanted me to go in throughout the episode: I started out really doubtful of Juliet, warmed up to her throughout the episode, and came right back around at the end. Anyways, I think a lot of you have brought up some really good talking points that I’ve been thinking about myself (Juliet’s loyalties, Ben’s trustworthyness, what will happen with Sun, etc.) But after reading all the posts I think I still have some things in my mind that havn’t been fully explored here:

    1. When Ben told Juliet that Jacob could cure Rachel, my first thought was “He’s going to bring her to the island?” Clearly, that didn’t happen, so then I thought about how Jacob could have possibly cured her off the island. As a doctor whose sister has cancer, I’m puzzled as to why Juliet wasn’t more surprised by this. Jacob cures cancer? Wow! After reading some of your theories, I think I’m convinced that Rachel never relapsed at all; it was just a lie to keep Juliet on the island (or at least make her think that it was her choice).

    2. Why would Jack and Co. leave the abandoned Other’s camp so quickly? I’m not saying that they should have moved in, but since the Other’s left (for the time being) that would give them free reign to snoop around a bit. I’m sure they could have found all kinds of info about the island and the Others. I expected Sayid to say “Let me just pop into Ben’s office for a peek before we take off.” But I think this is just and extension of the “Why aren’t they asking questions?” frustration. And I’m sure the writers don’t want them to find out everything just yet!

    There’s my 2 cents.

  538. Wingman says:

    [quote comment=”51328″]Here’s a theory. I think the island is at the end of time, the apocalypse. Humanity is facing extinction and the Others are on a desperate mission to prevent this course of events, which explains why they kidnap children and are searching for a cure to their fertility problems. In this episode, Richard Alpert said to Juliet, “You created life where life wasn’t supposed to be”. This was a huge clue. Life is not supposed to be on this island! Why? Because it is the end of time and humanity is meant to perish. The others or dharma or whatever are on a dire mission to change this- even at the expense of lying and manipulating people to achieve their goals (i.e. the ends justify the means).[/quote]

    I already said something similiar in post #489 …

    “My super dooper crazy theory that’s probably not close to being true is that the island is far, faaaaaaaaaar in the future and probably the only place left in civilization and they have to find a solution for stabalizing fertility or ending cancer to have a chance at not becoming extinct…They go back and forth thru the worm-hole bringing in specialist in an attempt to stop civilization from somehow getting to this point…Yeah nuts huh??”

    Lost is just such a mind-screw…I garantee tonight they throw us another screwball that shatters most of the discussions in this thread…

  539. MKS says:

    Katie-
    I was thinking something similar when they left the Others’ housing so fast. I would have at least taken some basic supplies with me i.e. cooking utensils, blankets/ pillows, maybe a book, or maybe some clothing, etc. They are living with pretty limited resources on the beach, and I would assume that the first inteligent instict people would have would be, what can I see here that would make life easier for me and everyone else on the beach. (Of course, I would have also seriously considered just moving in- but that just may be mine preference.)

  540. mmmm says:

    maybe when desmond brought down the plane by NEARLY not pushing the button, time was only slightly moved/changed. But when he turned the key in the fail safe all sorts of crazy things happened with the island and its exsitence in relation to time.

  541. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”51361″]the south pole is freezing cold so how could a tropical island exest there?????
    [/quote]

    Hallow Earth!

    Umm… also all we know is Desmond didn’t push the button on Sept. 22. HE doesn’t actually know the plane crashed on that day. He assumes it because of the date.

    So maybe he didn’t push the button that day and maybe the survivors left Sydney on that day, but we don’t know if the plane actually crashed on that day.

    As far as Ben well who knows…he is a liar! LOL

  542. Wm I says:

    Great Blog. Why do I get the feeling that by the time this show wraps up, we will ALL be saying it’s the greatest show in history ? My take so far is there is DEFINITELY a time-warp continuim and believe the Island is ahead of the real world. The Rachel video/newspaper set-up was easily “produced” and all Ben would have to do to explain Desmond’s not pushing the button on the day of the crash would be to alter the date on the computer. The Island would only have to be one day ahead of the “real world”, but is certainly some meqasure of time in the future. I loved the theory of Ben being Rachels son and coercing Juliette to the Island to cure the same cancer that his mother had and the show ending with all the characters being toddlers (which means Ben wasn’t conceived on the Island). I’ll consider Ben a MAJOR liar as well.

  543. lost chicka says:

    [quote comment=”51387″]maybe when desmond brought down the plane by NEARLY not pushing the button, time was only slightly moved/changed. But when he turned the key in the fail safe all sorts of crazy things happened with the island and its exsitence in relation to time.[/quote]

    love that idea! it makes a LOT of sense, wel for lost anyways.

    the losties haven’t been best friends with the others and some of them (sayid & kate) are learning that they’re lying evil manipulating people, so maybe Sayid & Kate just wanted to get outa there before something bad happened.

  544. lost chicka says:

    rewatching the show on ABC i’m noticing that juliette asks over & over again where the island is & they NEVER EVER answer her…the island’s location is the biggest mystery of the whole show.

    you know what’s the scariest part of the whole show? when bangs come back in style, Claire mysteriously has them!

  545. Bobbi says:

    I just rewatched last week’s episode. I thought about this last week, but i forgot about it. I don’t think anyone mentioned it. But when Juliet gets out of submarine…she looks around-there is land all around. This would back up our thoughts on possibly having a “lagoon” in middle of island for submarine travel.

  546. Raphael says:

    So the plane crashed on the same day that Desmond screwed with the computer. Doesn’t mean it was the same year…

  547. Bobbi says:

    OK, still watching last week’s episode. The plane crashes and Ben tells Juliet he’s been looking for her all morning. When Ben and Juliet are in the communications station-he tells Mikhail to show them Richard in Arcadia Park. Ben was looking all morning-how is it that he KNEW Rachel and her baby would STILL be in park. He walked right into Mikhail’s station and said to show them the feed-then actually talked to Richard-so to show it was live feed. But still, how did Ben know exactly where they’d be, at that moment?

  548. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”51412″]OK, still watching last week’s episode. The plane crashes and Ben tells Juliet he’s been looking for her all morning. When Ben and Juliet are in the communications station-he tells Mikhail to show them Richard in Arcadia Park. Ben was looking all morning-how is it that he KNEW Rachel and her baby would STILL be in park. He walked right into Mikhail’s station and said to show them the feed-then actually talked to Richard-so to show it was live feed. But still, how did Ben know exactly where they’d be, at that moment?[/quote]

    I said that in an earlier post and nobody responded. Glad someone thinks like me:)

  549. minnza says:

    Why did Ben put the gas mask on the table at the end? Am I missing someyhing?

  550. robin says:

    is anyone getting aggravated with lost…every week i watch hoping for a few answers and for the show to start tying the plot together if this season ends without some answers i don’t think i’ll continue to watch..

  551. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”51899″]is anyone getting aggravated with lost…every week i watch hoping for a few answers and for the show to start tying the plot together if this season ends without some answers i don’t think i’ll continue to watch..[/quote]

    Don’t complain about Lost unless it is a substantive complaint. It is the third posting rule.

  552. annb says:

    [quote comment=”51849″]Why did Ben put the gas mask on the table at the end? Am I missing someyhing?[/quote]

    Ben put the mask on the table for Juilete to use when he gassed the losties, before they trouped off into the sunset.

    Where have the others gone? another part of the island? the other island? and why?

  553. liesa says:

    I think she has the gas mask with her so that when Ben and the others show up ( he said “see you in a week”) she can put it on while the others are kidnapping and gassing the losties. (Hope you haven’t already covered this somewhere else, sorry if you have.)

  554. Jamie says:

    Can someone please share how they know this woman’s name is Naomi?

  555. liesa says:

    Am interview with the actress was qoted somewhere. She revealed what her name was . Try lostpedia

  556. liltdog says:

    What was the name of the “Stephen King” book Juliet was holding while they saw the plane crash? I cant seem to find it, can anyone find it?

  557. liltdog says:

    couse I think that lost is playing like one of the Stephen King books

  558. liltdog says:

    I think lost is going like one of the stephen king books. I cant seem to remember what the name of the book is called.

  559. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”53845″]I think lost is going like one of the stephen king books. I cant seem to remember what the name of the book is called.[/quote]
    Carrie

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