Is Juliet evil?

Juliet and Ben on Lost

I don’t think anyone will disagree with me if I say that last night’s Lost episode “One of Us” kicked some serious ass. We found out a lot more about The Others, Sayid once again proved to be the smartest person on the island, and it was revealed that Juliet is still working for Ben.

What I don’t understand though is that some of you have left comments saying that Juliet is a really evil person.

In the Lost episode we saw several times how Juliet only wanted to do good but time after time was convinced by Ben to keep doing what he needed her to do.

Like Jack said, the thing in the world Juliet wants the most is to leave the island. To be fair, Jack obviously doesn’t know Juliet as well as he thinks he does, but in this case I believe he was right.

Juliet really wants to leave the island and she believes that the only person who can take her home is Ben, or possibly Jacob, so she probably figures that if she wants to go home she has no choice but to continue playing along with Ben’s plans.

This feeling of focused dedication is mirrored in Locke who would do anything to stay on the island, and was in a way reflected in Michael’s willingness to do anything to save Walt.

What I’m wondering is what will happen if Juliet finds out that Ben isn’t actually able to let her go home…

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58 Responses to Is Juliet evil?

  1. Emily McD says:

    First of all, I’m freakin’ speechless. Was that NOT the greatest episode this season?! I mean, it answered SO many questions! God, it was awesome! A couple of things I’ve been thinking about since last night:

    1. They made sure that we saw that the date was September 22, 2004. Ben even made a point to emphasize that it was live and real time. The tsunami that rocked Thailand happened on December 26, 2004. People are placing bets that the writers of Lost are going to incorporate this somehow in the storyline. Perhaps another “incident?” Maybe some electromagnetic anomaly that causes the tsunami?

    2. Remember when Juliet and Jack are walking behind everyone else on the way back to the beach? She tells Jack that she drugged Kate into the jungle and handcuffed herself to her. Based solely on Jack’s reaction to that news, I think he already knew what she did. He wasn’t surprised or upset at all. So, I think, to some degree, that Jack is in on some of it. I don’t think he knew about Claire, though. Do you think this could be the start of Jack turning? He wants off the island. To what extent would he go to get off? As far as Juliet is obviously willing to go?

    3. If the Others want pregnant women, then doesn’t it seem obvious that they wanted Kate and Sawyer to hook up, maybe going as far as to set up some mind game to encourage them to get it on (i.e. the cages)? Is Kate pregnant? Since we know that Jin is sterile, how did Sun get preggers? Could Ana Lucia have been pregnant?

    4. There’s obviously some sort of religious divinity involved it seems on the island. Ben mentions Jacob to Juliet and speaks to her about him like she should never question her faith in Jacob. Clearly they have the ability to cure cancer. Is this magic? Is this some form of spiritual healing? Do they use cancer as a weapon? It seems like they were able to control Rachel’s cancer (Juliet’s sister). When they needed Juliet to stay on the island, the cancer came back with a promise from Ben that they could heal her. Sound familiar? Isn’t that just what they do to the people back on the beach? They cause a problem in Claire just so Juliet can come and fix it and be the hero. But then why does Ben have cancer? Ben’s cancer seems to defy not only the healing properties of the island but the faith we’re all supposed to have in this Jacob dude.

    5. Why was Juliet drugged to get to the island? Ethan makes a point to tell her that the “last leg of the trip” can be a little rough, yet we are led to believe that the last leg is the part in the submarine. Why would she need to be drugged to ride in a submarine? It’s not like she’s going to remember that they turned left at the starfish or hung a hard right at the coral reef. My point is that something’s missing in this trip. Did they do some sort of time travel? Or is all of this drugging and submarine business just to throw you off the fact that they’re really not as far from home as they may suspect? What if this island is just some big science experiment on an island off the coast of California? I hope not, but I’m just saying…

    6. What if three years in our time is only 6 months on the island? In other words, we know that our survivors have only been on the island for approx. 3 months, but what if it has only been a couple of days in the real world? We know that time works differently on the island than in the real world. I was thinking that maybe the island is some sort of cancer refuge for rich people that want to prolong their life expectancy, but Rachel debunks this hypothesis because she was cured of cancer OFF the island. So, people don’t have to be on the island to be saved. But I watched this episode twice last night, and Ben made a point to tell Juliet when he was showing her the video footage of her sister that this is “REAL TIME,” which means it could be inferred that time is different on the island. “Semantics,” as John Locke would say…

    7. Think back to the fortune teller that insisted Claire get on the plane to California to adopt her baby. Remember he said, “It HAS to be THIS plane.” Is he involved with Mittelos? Somehow he knows the right people involved to tip them off about Claire. Clearly he was paid to coerce her into boarding the plane. Kind of dirty. But clearly Mittelos is seriously funded by someone or something. They have the capability to contact people on the main land, pay for detectives, submarines, doctors’ salaries, etc. Is this a company owned and funded by Penelope’s father? Didn’t it seem like Ben knew that Claire was on the plane? Was the plane crash really an accident? Was it really Desmond’s fault or did the Others select precisely who they wanted and arranged it all to appear like an accident? I mean, imagine for a moment that all of this was on purpose and not at all accidental. Can you imagine how much money and resources it would take to pull off something like this? You would have to have detectives out and about involving themselves in all of these people’s lives way before the accident to get them all on the plane to begin with. Which makes me think that the man who told Sawyer that his father was in Australia could’ve been involved, the lady that was in the hospital with Hurley and gave Desmond the boat could’ve been involved, the fortune teller got Claire on the plane, Christian (himself) got Ana Lucia to go to Australia, as well as Jack to come get him. (Mark my words: Christian has something to do with the big picture people.) Was the accident that rendered Claire’s mother caused by someone involved with Mittelos? They killed Juliet’s ex-husband, why wouldn’t they kill Claire’s mother? And let’s not forget that Christian offered Claire another solution for her mother and someone at the hospital all the way in Australia knew to contact him. Was Walt’s mother’s sudden and unexpected death really a blood infection or caused to get Michael down to Australia to p/u Walt and board the Oceanic Flight 815 to get home?

    8. Did you remember that Goodwin, Juliet’s island fling, was the “Ethan” sent to the other part of the plane wreckage with Ana Lucia? Eko killed him, remember? Perhaps Juliet has been sent to the island to find out what happened to Ethan and Goodwin. She seemed perplexed when Hurley showed her where Ethan was buried. Her whole goal could be to try to recover the missing Others and keep an eye on the potential new mothers (Sun and now maybe Kate).

    …And I’m spent.
    -Emily McD
    GO HOKIES!

  2. Tim Hettler says:

    I have to disagree – this episode didn’t deliver at all for me. I don’t think the revelation that Juliet is still working with The Others was surprising to anyone. The writers established that she cannot be trusted at all very early this season, so another episode spent convincing the Losties she’s on their side is redundant.

    Also, why is Sayid on this show? His character has become spineless & useless. I hope he kicks some major Other-butt by the time this season is over. Otherwise, he’s just dead weight.

  3. adriennez says:

    I think you are onto some things here Emily! Over in the new episode discussion I had just come around to something similar…that Christian Shepherd has “something to do with the big picture” as you put it so well.

    People were wondering how the Others knew (because Juliet mentioned it in the scene where she tries to shame Sawyer and Sayid)that Sawyer had killed a man the night before he left on Flight 815 and another poster wrote that maybe the “guy who told him to kill him” knew and told them…that “guy” in the bar was Jack’s father Christian!

    I was looking on Wikipedia and Lostpedia and thinking about character’s names meanings and their possible significance and also Biblical connections. Lostpedia points out that in the Bible, Jacob son of Isaac was Aaron’s great great grandfather. If Christian Shepherd is Aaron Littleton’s (Claire’s baby)grandfather, then the mysterious Jacob could be Chrisian’s grandfather?! Just a theory!

    I think that Juliet is evil! I do not know why she would be evil but her willingness to drink that drugged oj and go with some strangers into the unknown to do fertility experiments sounds pretty evil scientist to me! That and the scene with Sawyer and Sayid (my two favorite characters)where she tried to shame them. The Others know what they did in their past, but there were reasons for their actions and to play on that with guilt and to shame them for it was really evil, especially because we found out that she did it to “help
    Claire” as part of an elaborate plot by her and Ben to get her in with the Losties.

    People keep asing why is Jack so trusting and I just cannot believe that he is really that gullible.

  4. James says:

    It feels good to have been right about Juliet! I’ve got a longer post on my blog, as usual. Here I’ll just point out the allusion in the title to not only an earlier episode, but also to Jack’s tattoo. There’s also a link to the symbol for Pisces, which was on the tree where the medical supplies were left, “Ethan’s old drop point”.

    http://blue.butler.edu/~jfmcgrat/blog/

  5. George says:

    Interesting that when Juliet woke up on the sub it was already docked. I am thinking that they got to the island some other way and they wanted her to believe that she got there in sub.

  6. Hurley's Dad says:

    [quote comment=”49739″]Lostpedia points out that in the Bible, Jacob son of Isaac was Aaron’s great great grandfather. If Christian Shepherd is Aaron Littleton’s (Claire’s baby)grandfather, then the mysterious Jacob could be Chrisian’s grandfather?! Just a theory![/quote]

    Take another look at Lostpedia. There already is a character named Isaac on the show….and he supposedly heals cancer victims.

  7. mr jones says:

    I think it’s obvious juliet isn’t reallt THAT evil. First of all, i understand that it could all be a hoax. However, it appears to me that all she wants is to go home. If we think back, she was trying to get jack to kill ben. Also, even though ben gave her the “plan” last night doesn’t mean that she was doing it for “evil purposes.” it seems to me that she could have just as easily been doing it to gain the confidence of the losties( by the time she was told about the “plan,” ben had already activated whatever it is in claire). So, why not save her without telling ben’s plan so she can maybe become liked. Also, the most important part to me seemed to come when she “shamed” sawyer and sayid. Watch the episode again, when she walks away she looks/feels sick and disgusted-like she couldn’t believe she was doing that. If she was all that evil would she have the signature “evil ben smirk.”

    cheers
    chad

  8. adriennez says:

    I was just speculating…the quote has come up more than once on the show that says “God loves you as He loved Jacob”. That sounds like it would be a scripture quote (but isn’t)…which makes me think of the Biblical connections. I was reading on Lostpedia about Isaac of Uluru, the healer…I don’t know…still so many mysteries…

  9. Jimmy says:

    What’s your definition of evil? Killing numerous women in constant experiements? Trying to kill Ben? Juliet has been used, there’s no doubt of that. But she’s also willing to do anything to get home – even kill? She’s decidely evil.

    The submarine is definitely not how they get to the island. You wouldn’t need to be tranqed for that. Remember Mittelos is an anagram for Lost Time. I think it has something to do with space/time travel.

  10. downthehatch says:

    I was debating this topic this morning. I too don’t think Juliet is necessarily evil. I DO think she will do anything, including killing Ben to get off that island. I mean is Michael Evil? Is Kate a bad person for doing what she did? Is Locke bad for going with the others? I think the line between good and bad is very thin.

    There is a big disconnect between the sub blowing up and Ben’s little talk with Juliet before the gassing. I think he promised her a way off the island again. I think they are interested in Sun because she was closer to conception upon arriving to the island than claire was.

  11. Tina says:

    I don’t know that she’s “evil” so much as dangerous and manipulative.

    If she and Goodwin were doing to the deed and having a relationship I imagine she’ll be pretty pissed off when she finds out how he died (if she doesn’t already know) and could be why she has little to no sympathy for the Losties. I wouldn’t be too happy with the folks that murder my man either.

    I think she’s been subjected to the brainwashing like Karl (see my post under “One of US” #181) which makes her capable of all that she’s been doing on the island.

  12. John says:

    Juliet’s wimsical smile, as she recalls Ben’s instructions to save Claire and met in in four days, makes me think she will put one over on Ben.

  13. cog says:

    As Orson Scott Card once said, “a villain is just the hero of his own story.”

    Lost puts that idea in action. There are no evil people in Lost (although the jury’s still out on Ben and the Others in general).

    I believe that Cuse/Lindelhof have said things to this effect, too. That’s the whole point of the flashbacks: learning enough about each character’s story so that we learn that, even if they’re a “villain” in the world of the island, they’re actually a “hero” when it comes to their own life story.

    That’s part of what makes this show so brilliant. We thought Sawyer was bad, until we learned about his backstory. Locke does some mixed-up things, but when you know his story, it all makes sense. The same is true for Juliet.

    The real payoff for me will come when we learn more about Ben’s motives and the overall motives of the Others. Will they prove to be heroes of their own stories? Or are they truly villains?

  14. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49837″]As Orson Scott Card once said, “a villain is just the hero of his own story.”

    Lost puts that idea in action. There are no evil people in Lost (although the jury’s still out on Ben and the Others in general).

    I believe that Cuse/Lindelhof have said things to this effect, too. That’s the whole point of the flashbacks: learning enough about each character’s story so that we learn that, even if they’re a “villain” in the world of the island, they’re actually a “hero” when it comes to their own life story.

    That’s part of what makes this show so brilliant. We thought Sawyer was bad, until we learned about his backstory. Locke does some mixed-up things, but when you know his story, it all makes sense. The same is true for Juliet.

    The real payoff for me will come when we learn more about Ben’s motives and the overall motives of the Others. Will they prove to be heroes of their own stories? Or are they truly villains?[/quote]

    I don’t know that the same can be said of Juliet, her life was pretty sweet before she accepted the deal from Mittelos and now she’s a coldblooded murderer.

  15. Sue says:

    Is anyone else as sick of all this manipulation by the “Others” as I am? This is really getting boring and irritating.

  16. Rick says:

    I think the one thing this episode shows is that everybody is playing by their own set of rules. Everybody has their own motivations and people run in to trouble when they try to act as if everybody else has the same motivations they do.

    In short, nearly all the major players are playing each other. It’s every man (and women) for him/herself. I think that Juliet DOES want to get off the island. However, to me that means she’ll work whatever angles necessary to that end.

    The Losties/Others dichotomy is false. The inversion of Juliet and Locke only re-emphasizes this. The real “players” in this story understand that, and use the perception of this dichotomy to their advantage.

    I can’t wait until we find out what Locke is up to!

  17. Bethany says:

    Though I don’t know that Juliet is “evil,” she’s no saint. Following Ben’s orders again and again — knowing people will be hurt — just to serve her own needs is not honorable in any way. She’s not helping anyone but herself.

    That said, I think it put a nice twist on the episode. There were a ton of answers, but not all of them necessarily true. (She implied Ethan was trying to “help” Claire, for instance.) I don’t think that Jack was in on it, because Juliet admitted to Kate that she handcuffed herself to her so that Kate wouldn’t run away.

    This show has definitely come back to life!

  18. Mark says:

    I think they made it abundantly clear that the thing Juliet wants more than anything in the world is for her sister to be healthy and happy, NOT to leave the island. Her entire desire to leave the island was to be with her sister (1) through her pregnancy and (2) through her cancer, when it was shown to have recurred. Her #1 priority is Rachel and Julian, not her freedom.

    Ben offered Juliet a choice: go home and watch your sister die, or “agree to stay and we will save Rachel’s life.” Juliet made a deal with the devil and sacrificed her own freedom in return for her sister to be cured of her cancer and give birth to a healthy baby.

    There was no clause or term in her agreement with Ben to ever let Juliet off the island. She made her deal, Ben lived up to his end of it (from all appearances, at least, but the important thing is Juliet believes he did) and since then Juliet is honoring her end of the deal… she agreed to stay.

    Any indicator we have that she “wants off the island more than anything” since the time of her deal with Ben comes only from her performances for the benefit of Jack and the Losties. This is the perspective we have been seeing Juliet from, and this is what the Others want Jack/815’ers to believe. It’s part of the con/manipulation of the survivors… Juliet’s #1 priority was to save her sister, not get off the island. Sister saved, baby born, Juliet stays on the island and does Ben’s bidding. She sold her soul and is now paying the price.

  19. herxanthikles says:

    It may be that Juliet is as evil as it appears, but don’t forget that she wanted to kill Ben a few days ago, so she doesn’t really “do Ben’s bidding.” She’s playing it so she can get what she wants, which is to get off the island. The flashbacks back up that this desire is no pose for the Losties. Probably she believes that Ben is the only person who can deliver that to her. BUT keep in mind she hates Ben and is quite the player herself, so she may have agreed to the plan to have gotten out from Ben’s thumb and make her own play. Who knows?

  20. Scott says:

    The name Jacob means “deciever” believe me I know. I have a son named Jacob.

    Perhaps Jacob is decieving everybody including the Others.

  21. Lesley says:

    Evil is not the right word – hostile now that word works! I think Juliet is interested in Juliet – end of story. She admitted long before she joined the Others that she was a mess and she still is a mess. She is a product of having been controlled by manipulative authority figures for a good portion of her life and she behaves that way over and over again (…just like Locke). It appears she has grown since her arrival on the island (trying to get Jack to kill Ben, learning martial arts…..) and I do think that she is trying to keep Jack as her ally (although I am not so sure he truly is her ally). However, it is unlikely she has taken sides with anyone at this point. She wants off the island and will do whatever she can to make that happen. Of course you do have to wonder after all this time why she still insists on believing anything dear Ben tells her, but I think that is her nature – it is in her genes. She has a personality that is comfortable with being used and Ben knows that well. In fact, Ben must be absolutely gleeful that on one hand he has Juliet and the other hand (and focused in the opposite direction) he has Locke. Locke is in it for Locke, and may even be more comfortable than Juliet with being used and abused. Ben is going to have a field day if Sayid and Sawyer do not get everyone’s asses in gear pretty quickly. But Ben wants something too. Locke holds the key to secrets he wants and Juliet can provide the path to a fertile society. I would love to see Hurley con Ben!!!

    Regarding Jack and his loyalties. He saw what the Others are capable of – Juliet included. He experienced extreme manipulation first hand and I do not for a minute believe that he doesn’t still have feelings for Kate. Perhaps he is watching and waiting for the right time to caucus with the A team and make his move using his new knowledge – remember he was capable of conning Sawyer. Jack was aware of the cameras and he has seen Juliet flip when it was necessary. I think he will turn on Juliet and be instrumental in helping the Lostie win the next battle with the Hostiles. Andreas you have it nailed the best description of last night is KICK ASS!

  22. Dax says:

    Did anyone pick up on how Jack’s comment to Charlie (“don’t you trust me, Charlie?’) sounded alot like Ben’s comments to Juliette about her calling him a liar. I don’t know, maybe it’s just coincidence (but maybe it’s consequence). Jack didn’t dispell much information on what happened in Otherville… he just gave short answers. Any ideas? Anyone notice anything?

  23. Dax says:

    I just realized my above post was in the wrong article, sorry

  24. Lesley says:

    I totally agree Dax. Jack is gathering facts before he makes a move and clearly he needs Juliet to believe that he is on her side. That means pissing off the Losties in the short-term. I imagine the finale will be incredible!

  25. Richard says:

    Why has Juliet chosen to read Carrie? Could that be a clue? Ben responds that it is so depressing (everyone but the best friend is dead at the end) yet Ben’s manipulations have created a lot of bloodshed.

  26. Smith says:

    Rachel is also a Biblical name, wife of Jacob

  27. herxanthikles says:

    Good or bad, whatever happens to Juliet will have something to do with the monster. If bad, I imagine the Smokey is going to give her a comeuppance. If good, Smokey might let us know that too.

  28. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”49875″]Evil is not the right word – hostile now that word works! I think Juliet is interested in Juliet – end of story. She admitted long before she joined the Others that she was a mess and she still is a mess. She is a product of having been controlled by manipulative authority figures for a good portion of her life and she behaves that way over and over again (…just like Locke). It appears she has grown since her arrival on the island (trying to get Jack to kill Ben, learning martial arts…..) and I do think that she is trying to keep Jack as her ally (although I am not so sure he truly is her ally). However, it is unlikely she has taken sides with anyone at this point. She wants off the island and will do whatever she can to make that happen. Of course you do have to wonder after all this time why she still insists on believing anything dear Ben tells her, but I think that is her nature – it is in her genes. She has a personality that is comfortable with being used and Ben knows that well. In fact, Ben must be absolutely gleeful that on one hand he has Juliet and the other hand (and focused in the opposite direction) he has Locke. Locke is in it for Locke, and may even be more comfortable than Juliet with being used and abused. Ben is going to have a field day if Sayid and Sawyer do not get everyone’s asses in gear pretty quickly. But Ben wants something too. Locke holds the key to secrets he wants and Juliet can provide the path to a fertile society. I would love to see Hurley con Ben!!!

    Regarding Jack and his loyalties. He saw what the Others are capable of – Juliet included. He experienced extreme manipulation first hand and I do not for a minute believe that he doesn’t still have feelings for Kate. Perhaps he is watching and waiting for the right time to caucus with the A team and make his move using his new knowledge – remember he was capable of conning Sawyer. Jack was aware of the cameras and he has seen Juliet flip when it was necessary. I think he will turn on Juliet and be instrumental in helping the Lostie win the next battle with the Hostiles.

    Andreas you have it nailed the best description of last night is KICK ASS![/quote]

    I don’t know that borderline sado is the best way to describe Juliet and Locke’s personalities. I think they are comfortable, if not in need of authority figures to follow and believe in which makes them easy prey for manipulators like Ben.

  29. Ry says:

    I wrote a few thoughts about this on my own blog – newslined.blogspot.com

    I didn’t like how Sayid and Sawyer stood down from Juliet, when clearly they have some of the best instincts on the island. It seems like the Nuts are running the Nut Island these days (see Locke and the explosives).

    I did start to care for Juliet though as they took us through her journey. I wasn’t surprised by her still being with the Others, as you can see her running around with the gas mask on in the earlier episode. But I am curious as to what she’s after. What’s the point of it all?

    I have a feeling the Island was trying to balance the equation of the Others by bringing Jack and crew on the island. It seems to be that Ben/Jacob lost control, and each of the 815 folk seem to be the antidote to the Other’s virus.

  30. Other 218 says:

    [quote comment=”49805″]… I think it has something to do with space/time travel.[/quote]
    Stargate folks will tell you that the first couple of trips thru the gate will make you nauseated/vomitous ..ergo sick, hence the drugs for her first space/time trip.

  31. whatif says:

    i’ll go all out and say that Jacob is either Christian Shepherd (since he is not in his coffin) or that he is the infamous ‘black box’; i.e. the wish-granter or Aladdin’s magic lamp… he may not be a real person!

  32. Hammer says:

    [quote comment=”49905″]I didn’t like how Sayid and Sawyer stood down from Juliet, when clearly they have some of the best instincts on the island. It seems like the Nuts are running the Nut Island these days (see Locke and the explosives).[/quote]
    It was stated earlier and I agree, they back down for the benefit of Claire. I think there will be another confrontation that restore your confidence (right around a week in island time 🙂 ).

  33. Lisa says:

    I have read through all the posts, but did not see anyone mention this.

    In last night’s epi, they said that no woman before Claire has ever given birth on the island.

    In an episode a few weeks back, Ben said that he was born on the island. Was he born on the island with the Losties or the other island with the cages where they kept Kate and Sawyer?
    If Ben was born on either island, then why did they need Juliet? Someone was obviously capable of giving birth on one of the two island if Ben was born on it.

    That being said, last night’s episode wa FANTASTIC!!. It kept me hooked like a good episode of Lost should and the ending had me sitting there stunned, again like a good episode of Lost should.

  34. Hammer says:

    Lisa – I’m not positive on this but I’m pretty sure Ben said he was there all his life, not necessarily “born” there.

    Having said that, the implication that the woman on the island haven’t given birth does not have to mean that it has always been that way. This could be a relatively new problem for the others.

  35. Delirium says:

    This is all a set up. The writers want you to question Juliet’s loyalties because it ould be to easy if she was clearly on one side or the other. I think this is to set up the big twist they keep saying is in the finale. I can picture it now, just when it looks like Juliet has lead Jack and the rest into a trap she turns on Ben, but then Jack turns on Juliet because he was brainwashed by Ben because he didn’t trust Juliet to follow the plan. I’m telling you guys the brainwashing is the key!!!

    Sorry! I know this is in rant format!

  36. avalanche says:

    i was just at lost easter eggs and someone put up that rachels’ chart had male on it. does this mean that juliette really made life where life wasn’t possible–in a dude! there was that bit about the male mouse. was rachel a transexual? they listed it as most likely a production gaff. any thoughts? not sure if this is the right forum (helping trannies get pregnant. . .evil?) but oh well

  37. Beej says:

    1. What about the French woman’s daughter? Wasn’t she born on the island after her party was trapped there? I’m surprised they didn’t kidnap her and do a little exploration. Or maybe they did and that’s why she’s so wacko. Okay, I would go wacko trapped on an island for all those years with a smoke monster and the Others…

    2. I’m fairly certain that Sun was preggers before she got on the airplane – by her teacher boyfriend who was thrown out the window. Regardless of what the doctor told Jin, (probably to protect his male ego) I’ll bet he was the one who couldn’t give her a baby….

    3. Kate and Sayid will figure out real quick that Juliet is lying. Think about it – if she was gassed, when would she have dragged Kate into the jungle? If Juliet had dragged Kate into the jungle (which we know now is a lie) she would have had to have been up long before Kate woke up… now, if they were all gassed at the same time that would not be possible. I refuse to believe Sayid won’t figure this out. And kick some Juliet butt (puleeese!).

    4. Love the Easter egg about the “male” medical chart… Not that Juliet’s sister is an ugly woman, but, well, she could pass for a trannie. I don’t believe for a minute that the producers allow mistakes like that – this show is choreographed like a ballet. If that is really true, that the chart said “male”, it is for a reason.

    5. I like the sub as subterfuge idea. Did we ever really see the sub at work? It looked like a leftover from WW2; old and rusty. I think the island is off of Sri Lanka, personally. Remember last year’s video hunt. Lots of clues that it is. You could fly a helicopter in there, and there is at least one landing area marked out. I prefer not to contemplate the time travel theory. I want this to have a logical conclusion that isn’t all smoke and mirrors.

    6. Now: did the Others purposely crashed the plane. Don’t think so. Why? Well, they had no knowledge of Desmond and his boat for the three (?) years he was down in the hatch with Sayid’s old army boss. Don’t you think they would have confiscated that boat if they did? And there didn’t seem to be any relation to Desmond finally going “what the hell” and letting the accident happen that brought the plane down and any actions by the Others. He didn’t seem to have any knowledge of them until Locke broke in

    7. Does anybody on this show have a decent father besides Jin? His father is pretty harmless but, gee, you might think the writers all had very, very bad custody battles in their backgrounds. My father was a jerk but, jee, I know there are good guys out there. I know a few. Can we have one decent father show up?

  38. todd sanders says:

    who says ben cured juliette’s sister of cancer (other than ben?). the records could have been faked and she could have been cancer cured all along. juliette took it on face value

  39. Bizzy says:

    First, I’m surprised that people talk about good and evil. Whether you realize it or not, it always works out better when you suck up and obey the people who have power, ie Benry. It’s not evil, it’s looking out for number 1.

    Jack and Juliet want off the island, Ben still has the power to arrange that. It would’ve been so easy to kill Benry and become the new leaders, but they didn’t because they know something the viewing audience doesn’t. You think they give a damn about these hillbillies and drama queens living on the beach. Get real.

  40. Jet Black says:

    [quote comment=”49953″]This is all a set up. The writers want you to question Juliet’s loyalties because it ould be to easy if she was clearly on one side or the other. I think this is to set up the big twist they keep saying is in the finale. I can picture it now, just when it looks like Juliet has lead Jack and the rest into a trap she turns on Ben, but then Jack turns on Juliet because he was brainwashed by Ben because he didn’t trust Juliet to follow the plan. I’m telling you guys the brainwashing is the key!!!

    Sorry! I know this is in rant format![/quote]

    Great point, someone as brilliant and manipulative as Ben would have a back up plan

  41. AnotherOther says:

    I think Jack knows everything…

    1. After Kate and Juliet got back to the village they had to wake Jack up. If he had been gassed at the same time as them wouldn’t he had woken up sooner?

    2. As previously mentioned, when Juliet said she dragged Kate into the jungle and handcuffed herself to her Jack acted like he already knew this.

    3. The medical test reasons she gave seemed very flimsy and if Jack was really thinking he should have seen through these. The idea that Claire was the control – if she was the control then she wouldn’t have been injected, right? And if she really needed that injection it would have shown up earlier, not right at that exact time.

    4. Also, Rousseau came to the island pregnant and had Alex. So, its not entirely true about no one able to have babies on the island. I guess you can only have a baby if its conceived off the island as Juliet said to Ben when they were out on the rocks.

    Obviously Jack was in on it to make Juliet look trustworthy. I don’t trust Juliet or Jack. They aren’t looking out for anyone but themselves by kissing up to Ben to try to get off the island.

  42. Sam says:

    Not sure if someone else has mentioned this, but we don’t have any real evidence that Jacob cured Juliet’s sister’s cancer, because we don’t have any real evidence that her sister’s cancer ever returned. Ben showed her a pile of medical data, but it seems like that would have been easy to fake. Maybe Juliet’s sister has been healthy since the day Juliet left. On the other hand, Ben seems genuinely surprised that he has cancer, which lends credence to his other statements about cancer. Hmm.

  43. k says:

    Sun is pregnant with her teacher’s baby – the guy who taught her to speak English and then was thrown from a window. Jin her husband is the infertile one. The Dr. in Sun’s flashback was afraid for his life which is why he lied and said Sun wasn’t able to carry a child. He later tracked down Sun to tell her it was her husband and not her that was infertile. Jin has quite a violent reputation hence why the Dr. lied.

  44. polaralex says:

    Well, the episode was sure a breath out of the fillers, but it still didn’t answer much other that the infertility problems.

    Anyway, I think that trying to extend lost in 4 seasons makes it too SLOW.

    I hope some good episodes are one the way. 🙂

  45. GeneF says:

    I think that Juliet lives with a lot of internal conflict. She wants to leave the island, yet she made a deal with Ben. She hates Ben and her captivity–making her an ideal candidate to help the Losties; however, they killed Ethan, her lover.

    The look on her face when she walked away from Sawyer and Sayid said “Walk. Walk. Walk. Maybe I can still get away with this.”

    What happened to Danielle anyway?

    And what will Desmond forsee regarding Juliet and the newly returned Losties? Hmmm.

    Gene

  46. adriennez says:

    I saw over on another discussion and it reminded me that in the first episode where we met Rachel(Juliet’s sis), we saw Ethan in her apartment building. Rachel also did not seem to have a problem with her sister leaving to some unknown place with strangers when she was miraculously pregnant…maybe Rachel is an other or working with them?!

  47. lost chicka says:

    even though juliete really wants to get off the island & is/was a good person, i thiknk she’s evil. she’s done things that a good person wouldn’t do. ex: killing picket in cold blood, asking jack to kill ben, conning people, etc. and if she really was a goood perosn i don’t think she would’ve signed all the papers to work w/ the others & chug down that OJ like she did.

  48. Mabry says:

    I thought of something while reading the comments in the review of Wednesday’s episode. It had to do with the “mark” that they gave Juliet after she asked to have Ben killed and after she killed the other man.

    Here is what I am thinking:

    The mark on the tree was the same as the mark on Juliet’s hip/back.

    This is because it is a brand that the Other give to those among them who have reached a certain status. It was always part of the plan for Juliet to ask Jack to kill Ben – Juliet was hesitant to do this for whatever reason, and it was done to get Jack’s trust. The Others did not think that Juliet was dedicated enough to them to actually follow through with it – that is why they were so surprised when Jack told them that she did it.

    When she killed the other Other – whoever it was, when he was trying to stop Sawyer/Kate/Carl from getting in the boat, she was once again showing her commitment to them. If she allowed him to kill Sawyer it would have resulted in the survivors coming after the Others – so her actions, by sacraficing that man (was his name Danny?) in effect saved the lives of the rest of them.

    I know that Jack/Alex interrupted some meeting where everyone had come to “watch” what happened with Juliet – but we never saw what was really going on inside, didn’t overhear the conversation, and it very well could have been something along the lines of praise for what she had done to protect their community.

    Thus, she was finally seen in the Others’ eyes as “one of them” and branded with their mark – a mark they only give to the people who have proven themselves as loyal to the cause. She can now be trusted to infiltrate the survivors and be more directly involved in the plans with them, now that they are sure that she has her priorities straight in their minds.

    That being said – I think she has her own agenda, to get off of the island, and right now that means she will follow through with whatever they want. She may need to go above Ben, to impress Jacob or someone else, with her dedication/service to the project, but I think that Juliet thinks that by helping them she will be getting off of the island, which is really all that she cares about.

  49. Needle on an island says:

    I agree with Emily’s original post that this last episode was fantastic. One of the things I can’t stop thinking about is how much Juliet has grown emotionally since she made that giant leap, and chugged the OJ.
    I want to know more or have a better appreciation for the how-&-why the “monster” checks people out. Juliet seemed genuinely in danger, and out of her element when dealing with the monster looking her over. When they got back through and activated the “fence” she was genuinely intrigued and involved in her own speculation on what was happening with the monster at the fence. Because Juliet herself is a victim to what the island itself can do, is aware of that, doesn’t it make sense she would do whatever she could to solve her puzzle of why pregnancies don’t go right on the island and get the hell off? This doesn’t make her evil, it makes her a survivor. The writers are trying to show she does possess some compassion, perhaps by expounding her backstory/flashbacks the way they have. Although she may have achieved a new level of trust with Ben &/or the Others, I don’t think she is a cold, brainwashed killer.
    She is a problem solver by nature (fertility doctor) and is probably going along with everything on the premise (or learning as she goes) that manipulation of people and events is the only way she believes will get her off the island (or escape whomever or whatever has control over her). Whether she’ll be “noble” and help the Losties or Jack remains to be seen. I don’t think she buys into the eventual scheme the Others on the island are trying to achieve though…

  50. Bizzy says:

    Knowing that Benry is as conniving as he is, I would guess that once he has used Juliet as much as he needs, he will betray her, and she’ll wind up killed by one of the Losties, probably Kate or Sawyer. I don’t see her in the next season.

    At which point, Jack will finally wake up, that is if Jack is really Jack and not some shapeshifter’s stand-in.

  51. poopypants says:

    ” What I’m wondering is what will happen if Juliet finds out that Ben isn’t actually able to let her go home…”

    Good question,try this one out.
    Seems to me Jack is not too concerned by the fact that the “only” way off the island has been blown to bits.The way I see it playing out is Jack has some inside knowledge (perhaps provided by Ben himself) that Ben is going to keep his word and send him home and I see Jack asking for Juliet to be included.If not that then I see Ben sending her home in return for infiltrating the beach and preforming her yet unknown task.

    As for the theory that the sub was the only way off the island ,I have serious isssues with that.
    If you think about it there is more than one way off right?.
    -We know Walt and Michael are supposedly on the way off the island #1
    -We still have the Sailboat #2
    -We know that people have arrived to the island by all kinds of means,planes,a boat,a sub,a balloon so I dont think its too far of a streach to think if you can arive by more that one way,then you can leave by more that one way
    -Dont forget the magic “box/room”,if it can deliver people maybe it can send them away also,thoughts?

  52. lost chicka says:

    I really like Mabry’s idea (48). It makes sense, especially since we know that Ben is a master manipulator & Juliette one in training.

  53. Wingman says:

    Hi,new to the blog and it’s great…

    This episode was as brilliant as it was frustrating and to me personally dissapointing in a way (Not the ep but the revelation)…

    I’ll just cut the crap and get right to it…

    While we don’t know everything and can only piece a few things together it seems this “island” is indeed JUST a research facility/experiment of some sort…Any thoughts of it maybe being some spiritial or supernatural hidden place with no connection to reality was shattered with this ep…What I loved about the island was the mystery of it’s origin but now it seems that this is all some man-made or man-infested scenerio…Yeah there may be a wormhole or an anomoly, but this episode suggests that Ben and a selective group of “The Others” knows what this place is, how to get there and how to get back if need be…So I guess I’m a bit dissapointed that (atleast for now) we are operating on the assumption that this island is easily connected to the outside world…That’s kind of a bummer for me and some of my theories…

    What I can piece together based on this ep goes as follows…

    -Juliet (ruling out manipulation here) was probably drugged so she wouldn’t learn about passing thru the worm-hole via the sub

    -The entire project of Ben’s group pertains to finding an absolute cure to cancer and/or fertility

    -Contact to the outside world isn’t only availible but seems to be an easy given
    (This totally kills my enthusiam for us seeing Locke’s dad since I suspect some detectives just brought him to the island rather than him just appearing in “the box”)

    -Juliet isn’t evil she’s just playing any and every game that is presented to her with the goal of giving herself whatever option she may need to get off the island (Why burn bridges with Ben when you can play both sides vs. the middle and take the side of whoever can get you the hell off that island first?)

    As for Juliet I truley think she dispises Ben and regardless of him saving her sister, the way he has lied and manipulated her and how he is basically using her love for her sister as a weapon is to blame for this…

    The only question I have is was the sub-explosion from a few weeks ago even real in the first place? Was Juliet in on that or did she decide to gravitate back towards Ben after it happened? Juliet is indeed a very interesting character and the way they made us love and trust her before they made many of us hate her is probably the true life she leads on that island…

    My super dooper crazy theory that’s probably not close to being true is that the island is far, faaaaaaaaaar in the future and probably the only place left in civilization and they have to find a solution for stabalizing fertility or ending cancer to have a chance at not becoming extinct…They go back and forth thru the worm-hole bringing in specialist in an attempt to stop civilization from somehow getting to this point…Yeah nuts huh?

  54. txflw says:

    I think they gave up the Juliet / Ben plan way too fast, Why? Because Juliet’s interest / loyalties lie elsewhere and not where they want us to believe.

    I tend to think that the reason Jack trust Juliet so much and wasn’t surprised by her revelation (in reguards to cuffing herself to Kate)is because they are working together, but not for an “Other” cause.

    Ben told Juliet his plan and then Juliet enlisted Jack. I believe Juliet will eventually show to be the decent person she was prior to coming to the island and that her loyalties will be on the side of the Losties, not the Others as the writers would have us believe.

  55. mikec says:

    Anyone think its a coincidence that Locke’s Dad and Desmond’s bird’s dad, rich old fellas that have bottles of that special whiskey, i think they helped fund the Dharma Iniative with Alvar Hanso. Just a thought

  56. Elise says:

    I think the people who are questionning Ben’s claim both that Rachel’s cancer had returned and that Jacob had cured it are onto something. It seems like all Ben does is lie and manipulate people, why should we assume he wasn’t just lying to Juliet. More interestingly, why does Juliet always believe him so easily?

    And what is up with Jack? Where’s the skeptical, down to earth, take charge, hardened leader I came to know and love?

    I can’t wait for Sayid to kick some blond butt…

  57. matt says:

    jack and kate both had bandages on their arms when they woke up on the other island, maybe they where given the same implant as claire. Juliette now has the ability to save them both if ben decides to activate it.

  58. Jake says:

    [quote comment=”49726″]First of all, I’m freakin’ speechless. Was that NOT the greatest episode this season?! I mean, it answered SO many questions! God, it was awesome! A couple of things I’ve been thinking about since last night:

    2. Remember when Juliet and Jack are walking behind everyone else on the way back to the beach? She tells Jack that she drugged Kate into the jungle and handcuffed herself to her. Based solely on Jack’s reaction to that news, I think he already knew what she did. He wasn’t surprised or upset at all. So, I think, to some degree, that Jack is in on some of it. I don’t think he knew about Claire, though. Do you think this could be the start of Jack turning? He wants off the island. To what extent would he go to get off? As far as Juliet is obviously willing to go?

    To add to that, Jack already made a deal with Ben to get off the island. So, it could be possible that he and Juliet are working together. My guess is that Ben spoke with each of them seperately. Possibly he told Jack to make sure that Juliet made it back to the Beach camp safely. And then to support her actions.

    3. If the Others want pregnant women, then doesn’t it seem obvious that they wanted Kate and Sawyer to hook up, maybe going as far as to set up some mind game to encourage them to get it on (i.e. the cages)? Is Kate pregnant? Since we know that Jin is sterile, how did Sun get preggers? Could Ana Lucia have been pregnant?

    I think that Kate is pregnant and that either she or Sun will be taken back to the Others. Remember Ben told Juilet that he would see her soon.

    4. There’s obviously some sort of religious divinity involved it seems on the island. Ben mentions Jacob to Juliet and speaks to her about him like she should never question her faith in Jacob. Clearly they have the ability to cure cancer. Is this magic? Is this some form of spiritual healing? Do they use cancer as a weapon? It seems like they were able to control Rachel’s cancer (Juliet’s sister). When they needed Juliet to stay on the island, the cancer came back with a promise from Ben that they could heal her. Sound familiar? Isn’t that just what they do to the people back on the beach? They cause a problem in Claire just so Juliet can come and fix it and be the hero. But then why does Ben have cancer? Ben’s cancer seems to defy not only the healing properties of the island but the faith we’re all supposed to have in this Jacob dude.

    It’s possible that Ben’s cancer is a trade off for healing Juliet’s sister. That’s my take on it.

    7. Think back to the fortune teller that insisted Claire get on the plane to California to adopt her baby. Remember he said, “It HAS to be THIS plane.” Is he involved with Mittelos? Somehow he knows the right people involved to tip them off about Claire. Clearly he was paid to coerce her into boarding the plane. Kind of dirty. But clearly Mittelos is seriously funded by someone or something. They have the capability to contact people on the main land, pay for detectives, submarines, doctors’ salaries, etc. Is this a company owned and funded by Penelope’s father? Didn’t it seem like Ben knew that Claire was on the plane? Was the plane crash really an accident? Was it really Desmond’s fault or did the Others select precisely who they wanted and arranged it all to appear like an accident? I mean, imagine for a moment that all of this was on purpose and not at all accidental. Can you imagine how much money and resources it would take to pull off something like this? You would have to have detectives out and about involving themselves in all of these people’s lives way before the accident to get them all on the plane to begin with. Which makes me think that the man who told Sawyer that his father was in Australia could’ve been involved, the lady that was in the hospital with Hurley and gave Desmond the boat could’ve been involved, the fortune teller got Claire on the plane, Christian (himself) got Ana Lucia to go to Australia, as well as Jack to come get him. (Mark my words: Christian has something to do with the big picture people.) Was the accident that rendered Claire’s mother caused by someone involved with Mittelos? They killed Juliet’s ex-husband, why wouldn’t they kill Claire’s mother? And let’s not forget that Christian offered Claire another solution for her mother and someone at the hospital all the way in Australia knew to contact him. Was Walt’s mother’s sudden and unexpected death really a blood infection or caused to get Michael down to Australia to p/u Walt and board the Oceanic Flight 815 to get home?

    8.

    Did you remember that Goodwin, Juliet’s island fling, was the “Ethan” sent to the other part of the plane wreckage with Ana Lucia? Eko killed him, remember? Perhaps Juliet has been sent to the island to find out what happened to Ethan and Goodwin. She seemed perplexed when Hurley showed her where Ethan was buried. Her whole goal could be to try to recover the missing Others and keep an eye on the potential new mothers (Sun and now maybe Kate).

    …And I’m spent.
    -Emily McD
    GO HOKIES![/quote]

    I might be inclined to agree with the “orchestration” theory, that they were all brought to the island. We have been shown that the main characters are all connected in some way. I think that I lean more toward a divine being bringing or calling them to the island.

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