TMBTC Review – Episode 3-20

This is going to be our first attempt at providing an episodic review based on the commentary associated with The Man Behind The Curtain post (it’s not quite as easy as it would seem, summarizing 600 posts). We will take some direct reader commentary and then incorporate our own opinions, but this will definitely be a collaborative effort.

  1. Is Locke Dead? My opinion… no way! Locke is too important to the show in general and let us not forget that he was previously a paraplegic. I don’t think a single bullet will stop our fast-healing friend and neither do most of you, which is summarized by reader Bryce: “I seriously doubt that Locke is dead. First, why would the writers kill off a very popular character just one episode before the finale if they truly want him dead? Wouldn’t it make much more sense to build up the suspense with teasers saying that a fan favorite would die in the finale? Second, far too many issues with Locke and the Island are still up in the air; for being a fairly essential plot line, this is too quick of a way of tying off this story line. Third, and as with most of what I have to say this is just my opinion, I think the writers were in an odd position with Locke in these last couple of episodes. Obviously they want a major confrontation between the Others and the Losties, but whose side would Locke be on?”
  2. Who, or what, is Jacob? At this point we have seen the image of Jacob (which I think is too ambiguous to speculate the identity of the person in the photo), which would seemingly imply that he/it has some human form. From reader Mardacara “I think that Ben has entrapped Jacob, whatever he might actually be – a person caught in a parallel dimension or ghost or whatever – Jacob is clearly a power unto himself. I think that he is the link with the Island or that he knows how to manifest the Island’s powers. Ben is threatened because Locke, by being able to hear Jacob, could potentially communicate with Jacob and together they could collude to strip Ben from his place of power…”

    I would tend to agree with this initial summarization of what Jacob might be, if we were 100% sure that the show in the cabin was not manufactured by Ben. I believe it is still possible that Jacob does not exist at all and that Ben uses the threat of Jacob to manipulate the people around him for his own nefarious reasons. Also, the initial concern from the Others/Hostiles, as well as Alex providing the gun to Locke prior to the journey, could lead one to believe that Ben has perhaps taken others to see Jacob before, and they did not return either. After all, there were a lot of corpses in that hole.

  3. Bad make-up job or Island time? One of the more interesting parts of this episode for me was that we now understand there is an additional level of history to the Island, via the Hostiles. How long has Richard Alpert been on the Island and how old is he? I do not think the lack of Alpert’s aging was a mistake by the producers. This would lead us to believe that the Island, or the medical research completed on the Island, has lead to the anti-aging characteristics that Alpert’s appearance would suggest. To take this one step further and I know this is minor, but Ben’s comment to Locke about Jacob not appreciating technology was peculiar to me as well. Flashlights were invented back in the 1890’s and are not something I think any of us would consider to be technologically advanced circa 2004. This could also be an implication of how long the hostiles/Jacob have been on the Island too.

Let’s keep the discussion within this post focused upon the three questions referenced above.

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81 Responses to TMBTC Review – Episode 3-20

  1. Tasha says:

    Yeah…Locke’s not dead but I am not saying why or it may be considered a spoiler:( Or I am pretty sure he is not!

  2. joe says:

    alpert’s non-aging is deliberate and NOT a makeup mistake. think about it – when alpert meet him, ben is a child. in current island time, ben is clearly older than alpert. if they wanted to show that alpert had aged, they would have cast a child to play his younger self.

  3. Bizzy says:

    1. That cat is out of the bag, courtesy of Michael Emerson.

    2. The identity of Jacob doesn’t play a role in this season. He could be anybody or anything.

    3. Alpert did not age. His speech and mannerisms are contemporary, even when he first met Ben. It’s hard to believe that he’s from the Black Rock, even harder to believe he’s a native of the island.

  4. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”57943″]1. That cat is out of the bag, courtesy of Michael Emerson.
    [/quote]

    That’s what I was gonna say! Guess we all know:(

  5. Rui Martins says:

    “1. Is Locke Dead?”
    -> He can´r be, I agree… Sawyer will dye in season 4, it was said… Jack will be dead before the end of the show, also… They can´t “kill” all the main characters without introducing new ones. And the flop that was Nikki and Paulo shows that the producers can´t compensate old-well-known characters with new… Locke must survive (he had previously recovered abnormaly fast from a wound in the leg), Sawyer recovered before very fast… The “island properties” studied by the Dharma?

    “2. Who, or what, is Jacob?”
    -> It seems that Jacob was an “imaginary friend” of Ben created in his mind in his solitary and troubled youth… The voice, was himself, calling from help from bellow his insanity.

    “3. Bad make-up job or Island time? One of the more interesting parts of this episode for me was that we now understand there is an additional level of history to the Island, via the Hostiles. How long has Richard Alpert been on the Island and how old is he?”
    -> No mistake, sure.. The original Others (there are “other” Others, like Ben and Juliet, recruited from the outside) can never get old… Immortal? Survivors from the ancient civilization (Mu?) on the Island that left the Statue with 4 fingers (how many they have?…), the ruinned house on the fake Others city and the column temple where Ben hanged Cooper… Being very old, these “original Others” could be anti-tech, using supernatural powers and not recognizing the benefits of the technologu, the cause of the armagedeon of their world?

  6. Bizzy says:

    Regarding the benefits of technology.

    We all think that streaming TV on your cell phone is high tech. Way in the future you won’t need hardware to do this–it’ll all be done in your brain.

    What I’m saying is that the natives could be a very advanced people who don’t use gadgets to create images. The island or something can create images of dead people. The natives might have thought the Dharmites were abusing the powers of the island which is why they wanted to knock heads with them.

  7. pandakim says:

    locke is not dead. he was shot on the left side of his abdomen. the fact that he has no left kidney will somehow save his life…the question is, ben knows john is “special” and he knows about the kidney, if he wanted him dead, he would have shot him multiple times or in the heart or head….and so why didn’t he???

  8. Sw0rDMaN says:

    Like all of you i am pretty sure that Locke is not dead and i really hope he is not 😉 But did you guys notice how Ben react after he shot locke when he learned that Jacob asked Locke to help him . I think Ben regretted shooting Locke afterwards

  9. txflw says:

    Notice that before they enter Jacob’s cabin Ben says something to the effect of “Jacob feels the same way about technology as you do”.

    Some have stated that Locke and Jacob look the same, are they? or since we don’t truly know Locke’s heritage, is it possible that Jacob is an ancestor of Locke?

  10. XR15 says:

    On the topic of Jacob’s identity, I just gotta say KUDOS to the director/editor/cinematographer etc. Not only did they make it very clear that there was someone in the chair, but they also managed to make it unclear who it was, while still having Jacob look an awful lot like Locke, Christian Shepard, and maybe even Horace Goodspeed. And not quite right for any of them either. I figured the legions of photoshop-wielding, high definition-subscribing, obsessive-compulsive fans out there would have cracked the identity of Jacob in fifteen minutes. The fact that it’s still ambiguous is really impressive to me.

    By the way, I’m in the “it’s Locke in a different timeline” camp.

  11. cazzie says:

    Island time man, island time. Jacob is really Locke from the future. Thats why he is so important and knows the island so well and knows that the island is special…..TIME WARP MAN.

  12. PoMo Lost says:

    Great overview Nick. The same goes to those who provided insightful and sound comments.

    As for the Albert’s aging, have we gotten about Joop, the orangutan, which was a byproduct of Hanso’s life-extension project we learned about from the online Lost Experience game? Either Dharma developed this technology or it’s one of the mysteries of the island.

  13. Zach says:

    I know it’s been beaten to death and denied by the producers, but it’s hard for me to shake the Christianity angle–the image of and matter of which Locke carried his dead fathers body ala Jesus carrying his cross, now dying at the hands of a somewhat-ruler ala Pontius Pilate, being left for dead in a tomb/hole, it’s just too blatant for me to let go of. Of course, the actions don’t exactly follow the chronological order of the religion story, but it still seems to be there. I hope it’s not.

  14. Mimi says:

    I am still trying to figure out how Cindy, the flight attendant, got involved with the others. She was on flight 815 as other survivors confirmed. But Cindy was in fact “the others”. So does it mean that they knew that Cindy would survive the crash, or Cindy became “the others” after she arrived the island??? Or is she like Richard who can travel back and forth between the island and outside world?

  15. Rui Martins says:

    [quote comment=”57965″]I am still trying to figure out how Cindy, the flight attendant, got involved with the others. She was on flight 815 as other survivors confirmed. But Cindy was in fact “the others”. So does it mean that they knew that Cindy would survive the crash, or Cindy became “the others” after she arrived the island??? Or is she like Richard who can travel back and forth between the island and outside world?[/quote]

    The producers (CC?) said that there was no such thing as “time travel” on Lost… So, my gess is that she is a “converted” like Ben, Juliet (in a way), some others (like Mikail, which is on the Island only by 11 years) and Alex and hers boyfriend… captured as children and now members of the Others.

  16. Saverio says:

    What about this informations on wikipedia…?”Benjamin was, according to the Book of Genesis, a son of Jacob, and the second (and final) son of Rachel, and the founder of the Israelite Tribe of Benjamin […].The Torah argues that Benjamin’s name arose when Jacob deliberately corrupted the name Benoni, the original name of Benjamin, since Benoni was an allusion to Rachel dying just after she had given birth, as it means son of my pain!!!”
    Maybe the key of Lost is hidden into the Bible! For those of you that are expert in religion please tell us the truth!!! ciao

  17. patience says:

    Hey Will and Co. the new lost podcast is out. Just letting you know.

  18. patience says:

    [quote comment=”57943″]1. That cat is out of the bag, courtesy of Michael Emerson.

    2. The identity of Jacob doesn’t play a role in this season. He could be anybody or anything.

    3. Alpert did not age. His speech and mannerisms are contemporary, even when he first met Ben. It’s hard to believe that he’s from the Black Rock, even harder to believe he’s a native of the island.[/quote]

    Yeah it was cool when Ben asked Richard “You do remember Birthdays don’t you Richard.”

  19. Rui Martins says:

    [quote comment=”57970″][quote comment=”57943″]1. That cat is out of the bag, courtesy of Michael Emerson.

    2. The identity of Jacob doesn’t play a role in this season. He could be anybody or anything.

    3. Alpert did not age. His speech and mannerisms are contemporary, even when he first met Ben. It’s hard to believe that he’s from the Black Rock, even harder to believe he’s a native of the island.[/quote]

    Yeah it was cool when Ben asked Richard “You do remember Birthdays don’t you Richard.”[/quote]

    Exactly. That was a clear clue about the how old are the “real Others”… Probably contemporaries of the Statue…

  20. Lesley says:

    Is Locke dead? I don’t think so but he wants Ben to believe that he is or at least that he is dying. (Funny that Ben threatened to shoot him again to find out what Jacob said – maybe Ben does not want him to die because he knows that will change Jacob’s power.) After coming out of Jacob’s house Ben looked very shook up and perhaps was not thinking about Locke’s missing kidney. Then again if he wanted him dead wouldn’t he shoot him in the head like the other corpse? He knows John heals is he simply making a power play? Would Jacob kill Ben if he killed Locke?

    Who or What is Jacob? Jacob did not appear in the chair until after Locke heard him and then the entire “had your fun” sequence seemed very dream-like, similar to the sweat lodge footage. (I expected the whole house to go up in flames when the lantern crashed to the floor and I still wonder why it did not.) Jacob appeared to look very much like John Locke wearing Richard Alpert’s pre-purge hair and clothing but with Ben’s nose! Sticking with my Jacob is the island mantra, it appears he is one of many personifications of the island and that includes Smokey. It means Yemi was actually Jacob, as was Ben’s mother and Kate’s horse. Perhaps the reason he looked like several people (Locke, Alpert and Ben) is because Ben has disabled him in some manner and he cannot manifest properly. That could explain the circle of ash or salt (or ground sage???) outside.

    Bad make-up? Not a chance, it was way too obvious and Roger the janitor clearly aged (and not too well either). I believe the Hostiles age very, very slowly because they are natives and therefore part of the island. (Ben wants to be a native so bad he can taste it!) It appears the natives have the ability to cross different time dimenisons too. I am guessing a native woman has no problem with her pregnancy and the island ages visitors (non-natives)more quickly.

    We paid little attention to the beach crowd this time but when Jack and Juliet returned to face the angry mob, the right side uf Jules’ face appeared as if she had been in a fight.

    Great comments all!

  21. Rui Martins says:

    [quote comment=”57975″]Is Locke dead? I don’t think so but he wants Ben to believe that he is or at least that he is dying. (Funny that Ben threatened to shoot him again to find out what Jacob said – maybe Ben does not want him to die because he knows that will change Jacob’s power.) After coming out of Jacob’s house Ben looked very shook up and perhaps was not thinking about Locke’s missing kidney. Then again if he wanted him dead wouldn’t he shoot him in the head like the other corpse? He knows John heals is he simply making a power play? Would Jacob kill Ben if he killed Locke?

    Who or What is Jacob? Jacob did not appear in the chair until after Locke heard him and then the entire “had your fun” sequence seemed very dream-like, similar to the sweat lodge footage. (I expected the whole house to go up in flames when the lantern crashed to the floor and I still wonder why it did not.) Jacob appeared to look very much like John Locke wearing Richard Alpert’s pre-purge hair and clothing but with Ben’s nose! Sticking with my Jacob is the island mantra, it appears he is one of many personifications of the island and that includes Smokey. It means Yemi was actually Jacob, as was Ben’s mother and Kate’s horse. Perhaps the reason he looked like several people (Locke, Alpert and Ben) is because Ben has disabled him in some manner and he cannot manifest properly. That could explain the circle of ash or salt (or ground sage???) outside.

    Bad make-up? Not a chance, it was way too obvious and Roger the janitor clearly aged (and not too well either). I believe the Hostiles age very, very slowly because they are natives and therefore part of the island. (Ben wants to be a native so bad he can taste it!) It appears the natives have the ability to cross different time dimenisons too. I am guessing a native woman has no problem with her pregnancy and the island ages visitors (non-natives)more quickly.

    We paid little attention to the beach crowd this time but when Jack and Juliet returned to face the angry mob, the right side uf Jules’ face appeared as if she had been in a fight.

    Great comments all![/quote]

    -> That I didn´t think! Could Jacob be really… The Monster? Is Ben and all the Others taking orders from “Smokey”? That will explain Ben´s afraid from Jacob (he seems very sure of himself normaly), and also why Richard listen Ben (as a young) so carefully when he told him the vision of his mother (the Monster, certainly).

  22. Keith Michaels says:

    The whole premise for ‘Lost’, could be that the plane survivors are in an artificial reality type computer program(John Locke’s & Jacob’s dislike of modern technology may be leading them to the truth of exiting the artificial reality mind program that everyone is experiencing on the island). This could explain why visions of dead people and whispering voices are heard at different times in the jungle. These are the voices & appearances of those in the real world overseeing the plane crash survivor participants artificial reality game/experiment/escape from reality, that they all are either voluntarily or involuntarily partaking in. Remember the movies ‘eXistenZ’, and ‘Total Recall’, in the first movie the virtual reality participants had completely new identities and past lives created, and in the second Arnold Schwarzenegger’s character chose what type of adventure he wanted to have. Also a few episodes of the English comedy ‘Red Dwarf’ deal with the programs characters waking up from their Red Dwarf artificial reality game to discover they were supposedly different people to who they believed they were. Another episode of Red Dwarf deals with the characters knowingly entering an virtual reality game together; Where upon all their wishes are realized, however what was different from a Star Trek holodeck experience, they discovered that all of their secret, dark desires of failure and self loathing, came true in their experience in the artificial game.
    One thing that could point toward this is the requirement by the ‘others’ when Juliet first entered the submarine to get to the island location, to be drug injected, and sleep to get to the ‘Wizard of Oz’-fantasy Island-‘The plane, the plane, I see the plane arriving-Mr. Roarke(Ben)-the mysterious host of the Island, making all your wildest fantasies come true, which you only realise has happened when you reach the climatic end of the Island game. Also at the end of the ‘Wizard of Oz’, all the characters only realized at the end of their journey, they had achieved through their own hard exeriences what they all wished for the most.
    Also when Locke accompanied Kate, Sayid and Rousseau on a mission to find and rescue Jack. The group came across a DHARMA Initiative station called the Flame, and a man inside with an eye patch. The man identified himself as Mikhail Bakunin, and claimed to be the last living member of the DHARMA Initiative, but he was soon discovered to be one of the Others. When the gunfight ensued, the ‘Other’ black lady demanded that eye patch Mikhail shoot and kill her. Why did this other lady demand eye patch man to do this and not be overly worried about her own death? No doubt she was fully aware that they are ‘all’ participants in a virtual reality type computer game, and at that point she wanted out of the game, and the only quick and easy way to exit the game is to be physically killed within the game. This would also explain why eye-patch man Mikhail was obviously definitely kill when Locke pushed him between two barrier pylons and he was subsequently killed by a sonic weapon. Then low and behold patch-man soon after is found running through the forest and stumbling onto some of the plane survivors, eye-patch man obviously decided he wanted to re-enter the virtual reality game, or maybe he was allowed to re-enter the game because Locke was breaking the rules of the game somehow. The question is, is their only ‘one’ winner to this ‘LOST’ game, and he who discovers all of the secrets, or the one big main secret, wins all of the 1 million dollar prize.

    ———————–
    Another idea is that ‘LOST’ refers to one of the lost tribes of Israel(Jacob), who possibly took with them the magical ‘Box’-the Ark of the Covenant. Also ‘smokey’ could be the presense of the ‘Angel of Death’ that went thoughtout Egypt killing the first born children, as shown in the bibles book of Exodus.
    “The phrase Ten LOST Tribes of Israel(Jacob) refers to the ancient Tribes of Israel that disappeared from the Biblical account after the Kingdom of Israel was totally destroyed, enslaved and exiled by ancient Assyria. Many groups of Jews have doctrines concerning the continued hidden existence or future public return of these tribes.”

    “go to Jeremiah 31. This chapter is about those Lost Tribes, The “isles(Islands) afar off”-is where it makes reference that they went too.

    Also the soon to be erupting volcano theme, ties in with God’s revealed presense on top of Mount Zion, his appearance resembled an erupting volcano, with all the ground rumblings and flashes of lightening, as also shown in the bibles book of Exodus.

  23. jay says:

    what’s with all the people who post the same EXACT comments (as in, cut-and-pasted) on multiple blogs? I read like 3 or 4 blogs, and the comment above me, as well as someone else’s comment about “From Wikipedia, about the Tribes of Benjamin” comment, have showed up on all of them!

  24. Mel says:

    I want to know if anyone has any thoughts on what would happen if a dead body came to the island? (Jacks dad) Just wondering if any one has any comments of that. The voice sounds sooo much like Christian. Also, when I went back and paused where the person was sitting in the chair(creepy) right before that when Ben was thrown up against the wall it sounded like a gun shot. I thought that was a strange sound to be used given what later happened. Is it possible for Jacob to enter into someones body given the right person come along? I think Ben looked very strang when he come out of there. Also the lantern that started the fire he was holding it and I would like it would be rather hot.

    There are so many people that blog that can type down their thoughts better than I can, please be kind:)

  25. Bizzy says:

    Now when Locke comes stolling back into the Others’ camp, it’s going to be quite a sight. They’re going to realize he has more power than Ben. I don’t see Locke going back to the Losties, he doesn’t want to leave the island.

    If Locke can liberate Jacob, Ben is definitely toast.

    I wonder if Ben tested Walt, to see if he could hear or see Jacob. Maybe that’s why he was sent away from the island.

    If Ben could lie about being born on the island, why can’t Rousseau lie about her story? I bet she knows about Ben and hates him for what he did in the purge. Patchy has a good deal. The island gives him power to be healed and to heal (Naomi). Rousseau cut him off when he was about to tell Locke that the Locke he knew was para….

  26. Omar Kamel says:

    Republishing my thoughts regarding Jacob from the previous blog post, since it seems to fulfill the criteria of being focused on the 2nd question here, so here it goes:

    My explanation for the scene with Jacob is as follows; the way I see it – there are 3 possible explanations that seem reasonable for me:

    1. Jacob Exists. The figure we saw briefly in the chair seems to demonstrate that. The shaking and the noise and people getting thrown around – well – none of that persuaded me that anything other than the island just being the island was in effect – but actually SEEING Jacob for a second indicates he MIGHT be real.

    2. Jacob is a ‘tangible’ fiction created by Ben, and given presence by Ben’s ability to channel some of the island’s power.

    3. Jacob is a ‘tangible’ fiction created UNCONSCIOUSLY by Ben who basically has multiple personality disorder, and has, WITHOUT BEING AWARE OF IT – created the Jacob character and provides it with presence and kinesis by channeling some of the islands power.

    Now – as for Theory #1:

    Nope. I don’t think so. If this were true, if Ben absolutely and totally believed that Jacob were real, and KNEW IT beyond doubt. I suspect he would have MADE SURE that Locke was dead. He would not have shot him that rather non–lethal shot in the gut. Locke would indeed be DEAD. He isn’t, of this I have no doubt.

    AND…

    It’s not theory No.2 either. If Ben had consciously created the Jacob fiction, he would NOT have been desperate to find out what, if anything, Jacob had said to Locke. It would have been a non-issue. However, I believe his rather desperate curiosity was real. Therefore – Ben does NOT consciously know he has created the Jacob character.

    HOWEVER – He suspects that that COULD be the case. Which leads me to conclude that theory #3 in this case is the one to bet on. Ben does NOT have direct awareness of the Jacob character he has created, and really does perceive him to be an external presence – however, he KNOWS that he might not quite be 100% sane, and suspects that he may have another personality, and is therefore QUITE eager to know what this personality might have told Locke. This is the only theory that both explains the apparition, Ben’s ignorance of what it told Locke, AND the fact that he did NOT make sure Locke was lethally wounded.

  27. lost chicka says:

    is locke dead: not ready to take a side.

    who or what is jacob: idk, i’ve heard lots of good theory’s but not one that’s convinced me to side with them yet. but if jacob is real, i think walt got sent away cuz he could hear/see jacob. jacob could be one elaborate hoax just like the wizard of oz. who thought the first time they watched The Wizard of Oz that the wizard was just gonna turn out to be a con?

    bad makeup job or island time: island time. richard doesn’t age, there’s something about him that makes him not age. hopefully he’s not an alien.

    mel: interesting idea about ben! maybe jacob was brought to the island dead, but became alive again (don’t know how else to say that), and is now the Jacob we see today! possibly what happened/what will happen to Christian. Ben did look spaced out after cumin from the cabin. i thought he was just shocked or still scared, but your idea is a LOT better!

  28. THE LOST KING says:

    guys, LOCKE WAS SHOT WHERE HE HAS NO KIDNEY. SO THE ISLAND WILL HEAL HIS SKIN WOUND, AND HE WILL CLIMB OUT AND RUN AROUND THE JUNGLE.

    CLEARLY OBVIOUS AINT IT????

  29. THE LOST KING says:

    + WHAT IF WHEN THE LIGHT HIT JACOB EVERYONE WHO’S NOT SPECIAL CAN SEE HIM???

    ALSO, WALT GREW SO MUCH DIDNT HE IN A COUPLE WEEKS. SO MAYBE THE ISLAND DOESNT MAKE YOU AGE, HENCE WHY MUM’S CANY GIVE BIRTH CAUSE THE KID COULD BE DEFORMED FROM AGEING

  30. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”58003″]Now when Locke comes stolling back into the Others’ camp, it’s going to be quite a sight. They’re going to realize he has more power than Ben. I don’t see Locke going back to the Losties, he doesn’t want to leave the island.

    If Locke can liberate Jacob, Ben is definitely toast.

    I wonder if Ben tested Walt, to see if he could hear or see Jacob. Maybe that’s why he was sent away from the island.

    If Ben could lie about being born on the island, why can’t Rousseau lie about her story? I bet she knows about Ben and hates him for what he did in the purge. Patchy has a good deal. The island gives him power to be healed and to heal (Naomi). Rousseau cut him off when he was about to tell Locke that the Locke he knew was para….[/quote]
    I LIKE THE ROUSSEAU CUT HIM OFF BIT. I THINK DANIELLE IS AN OTHER, OR WAS AN OTHER N THEY KICKED HER OUT AND KEPT ALEX. THATS WHY THEY KEPT ALEX AS HER NAME, AND ROUSEAU WAS HAVING SECRET MEETINGS WITH ALEX AFTER BEING KICKED OUT TELLING HER THE OTHERS ARE BAD, THEN BEN TOLD ALEX THEY KKLLED ROUSSEAU

  31. Bizzy says:

    Why do the Others trust Ben that Jacob exists if they’ve never seen or heard Jacob? What miracles were performed? The only one I can think of is Patchy surviving the sonic fence. Why is Ben the leader?

    That fact that Ben can see dead people is really no big deal. The Losties do it all the time. Why is Ben considered so special?

    And why are the Dharma kids allowed to eat all the Apollo bars they want? Does it contain a vaccine?

    And why does a science teacher say that mixing water and bicarb causes a reaction? You need an acid like vinegar. Sorry for flying so OT, but I just watched the episode again.

    Where did all the animals go?

  32. Aussie says:

    >>Bad make-up job or Island time?

    If the non-aging is not deliberate, TPTB would have explained all out about it in their Podcast 😛

  33. Rui Martins says:

    [quote comment=”58053″]Why do the Others trust Ben that Jacob exists if they’ve never seen or heard Jacob? What miracles were performed? The only one I can think of is Patchy surviving the sonic fence. [/quote]

    Mikail had said to Ben that he survived because the fence was in a “non lethal mode”. If spoken true (the producers said in a podcast that we can trust everything that Mikail says except his dharma membership), someone has place the sonic fence in that mode in order to him to survive, and that was not a miracle at all.

  34. Bizzy says:

    Rui: So then the question still stands. What is the basis of Ben’s power over the Others. How does he stand up against Isabel?

    Patchy had told the Losties that Ben was not the real leader, but was someone who was great. So he must be convinced about Jacob. But how?

  35. Rui Martins says:

    [quote comment=”58069″]Rui: So then the question still stands. What is the basis of Ben’s power over the Others. How does he stand up against Isabel?

    Patchy had told the Losties that Ben was not the real leader, but was someone who was great. So he must be convinced about Jacob. But how?[/quote]

    The Others seem not aware of the nature of the Monsters (accordingly to Juliet statements). Ben knows him… He had seen his mothers (a Monster impersonation) and the activity on Jacob´s house could be a monster manifestation… Perhaps Ben has some degree of control over Smokey and that – just that – could explain his ascendent over the Others group.

  36. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”57945″][quote comment=”57943″]1. That cat is out of the bag, courtesy of Michael Emerson.
    [/quote]

    That’s what I was gonna say! Guess we all know:([/quote]

    i know the spoiler rule, so could u tell me where i can find this info?

  37. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”57962″]I know it’s been beaten to death and denied by the producers, but it’s hard for me to shake the Christianity angle–the image of and matter of which Locke carried his dead fathers body ala Jesus carrying his cross, now dying at the hands of a somewhat-ruler ala Pontius Pilate, being left for dead in a tomb/hole, it’s just too blatant for me to let go of. Of course, the actions don’t exactly follow the chronological order of the religion story, but it still seems to be there. I hope it’s not.[/quote]

    i hope not too, b/c it will upset many fans who do not beleive in those “stories”

    also, it wouldn’t really make it a good mystery, if the whole series is about this, not a new story, you know?

  38. minnza says:

    [quote comment=”57956″]Island time man, island time. Jacob is really Locke from the future. Thats why he is so important and knows the island so well and knows that the island is special…..TIME WARP MAN.[/quote]

    If it is Locke from the future why has he got hair?

  39. Bizzy says:

    katesFriend: http://tinyurl.com/yrhjsw

    Don’t watch unless you want to be spoiled!

  40. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”58079″]katesFriend: http://tinyurl.com/yrhjsw

    Don’t watch unless you want to be spoiled![/quote]

    thanks bizzy!!

  41. katesFriend says:

    [quote comment=”58079″]katesFriend: http://tinyurl.com/yrhjsw

    Don’t watch unless you want to be spoiled![/quote]

    that video was cool, interviewer was dumb tho, weird how emerson’s real life wife was his mom on show!

    i dont think this is a spoiler, but if it is, sorry, u can delete it!!

  42. Sal says:

    It looks to me like Jacb is a pirate, possibly from the Black Rock…check out his shirt, kinda look slike a pirate shirt.

    One of the skulls in the pit had a bullet hole in it.

    The red jars help trap Jacob.

    What do you think?

  43. Bizzy says:

    Sal: I don’t know if the Black Rock was a pirate ship. I know it was a slave ship with Magnus Hanso as the captain. Maybe Alpert was on that ship, although he doesn’t talk like someone from the 19th century.

    Maybe the island has trapped Magnus because of his dirty deeds. No wonder he’s Ben buddy.

    Maybe when he’s not smokie, he makes strawberry jam.

  44. roses12 says:

    The idea that Jacob takes the form of Locke and reveals the future to Locke (gun shot, help me) is interesting.

    do you think Ben shot Locke only once to test Jacob, ie will Jacob save Locke. If so why has he focused in on Locke and not any of the other Losties?

    Do you think Rousseau is Ben’s girlfriend who made the doll, that he warned her of the purge and thats why she is hiding out?

    Also if the natives have purged the others then when is the fence still operational, especially if they don’t like technology?

    I love this show.

  45. Bizzy says:

    I think that it’s standard that sci-fi stories are always very ambitious. It’s always about saving the earth and/or mankind. It’s never about reducing your monthly cell phone bill.

    The Lost island is mankind’s last hope for suvival on plantet Terra, according to the Valenzetti equation.

    The island natives knew this, and they didn’t want the Dharmites dicking with their good thing, ultimately the survival of man.

    Mankind is being reinvented on this island, but not according to Ben. I think you’ll eventually see Locke taking over the leadership, and Jack and Juliet doing the research.

    The psychic who put Clair on the flight knew what role her son would play in creating a new population.

    Ben is only a temporary solution–he got rid of the Dharmites. People like Desmond and Locke are the prophets.

    This is like Earth 2.0, and all the traditions of the past are gone, including the religions. The new faith is based on organic technology.

  46. Zombie says:

    I think something with Locke and Jacob will come up andf I think Jacob will save his life and tell some more origins but i dont think that will show up till Season 4

  47. Mel says:

    Someone brought up Clair and the psychic, I wanted to bring this up before, so here it goes…. I’m pretty sure the psychic told her not to let others raise her child. At the time I just thought he meant don’t let anyone adopt the baby, raise it yourself. I heard before that people have thought that the psychic was in on it, but it might be that he was warning her, why would the others warn her about themselves? Just something that has been bugging me and I hope someone can shed a little light (and not from a flashlight please!)

  48. AZ says:

    Off topic, but does anyone know about the whispers in the jungle that young Ben heard right before he meets Richard? Has anyone anaylzed them? I’d be curious to read a transcript of those whispers.

  49. lost chicka says:

    claire’s phsycic: i agree with charlie on that one. he knew. he knew that if claire was on the plane, even tho she would be in a plane crash & stuck on the island forever she would be forced to raise the baby herself. there was no couple in LA he just wanted her to raise the baby.

    i like mel’s idea – think it was mel’s :)- that jacob entered ben’s body & jacob killed locke, not ben.

    my crazy theory on jacob: Since Jacob may not be real at all & the name of the ep is Wizard of Oz related, I thought I’d throw this one out here. I don’t think it has been discussed yet.
    The title of the show was “Man Behind The Curtain”. Ben & Locke were only in 1 room. There appeared to be other rooms. Was there a man (Richard maybe?) in another room creating the voice, shot we see of Jacob (through like a hologram or something crazy like that), & shaking house? Ben wouldn’t let Locke take the flashlight in there were no lights on, cuz then all the props would be revieled. Jacob has been a hoax for many years & Richard told Ben & they together are Jacob. There once again is no Great & Powerful Oz, he’s just a hoax. L oh and this means he had a flyin monkey w/ him too!

  50. Tasha says:

    [quote comment=”58076″][quote comment=”57945″][quote comment=”57943″]1. That cat is out of the bag, courtesy of Michael Emerson.
    [/quote]

    That’s what I was gonna say! Guess we all know:([/quote]

    i know the spoiler rule, so could u tell me where i can find this info?[/quote]

    I was actually going to refer to Carlton. Anyhow…don’t click on this link unless you want to be spoiled!!!! It may not be a spoiler either, but nobody HAS to click on it. If it is I understand if it is deleted….

    http://www.tvguide.com/News-Views/Columnists/Ask-Ausiello/default.aspx?columndate=18-Apr-2007

  51. speechwritersLLC says:

    I watched the episode for the third time after reading this post and was forced to pause during the scene after the purge. Ben returns to find his dharma colleagues dead, including Horace Godspeed. To me, it seemed that this dead Horace was definitely NOT 15 years older than the time we saw him greeting Ben and Roger to the island. He has changed slightly, but certainly no more than Richard did during this time. My questions: What was Horace’s involvement with Dharma?? Does the fact that he coincidentally met Roger at Ben’s birth relate to the psychic persuading Claire to board the plane?? And DOES THE FACT THAT HORACE DOESN’T AGE CONNECT THE DHARMA SCIENTISTS TO RICHARD’S TRIBE OF HOSTILES??

  52. Matt B says:

    This might have been mentioned so apologies if so but I take it Ban cant hear (or maybe even see) Jacob otherwise he would have heard what he said to Locke!

  53. Tina says:

    Locke’s Not Dead (Yet):

    Obviously, Locke is too integral a character for him to die so shittily. Aside from that I am intrigued to ponder whose side he’ll end up on in the “final” battle between the Others & the Losties. I wonder if he will in fact choose no side because he continues to follow his own path. It appears though, that the path he follows is leading him to a major show down with Ben over the leadership of the island’s communities.

  54. THE LOST KING says:

    [quote comment=”58183″]Locke’s Not Dead (Yet):

    Obviously, Locke is too integral a character for him to die so shittily. Aside from that I am intrigued to ponder whose side he’ll end up on in the “final” battle between the Others & the Losties. I wonder if he will in fact choose no side because he continues to follow his own path. It appears though, that the path he follows is leading him to a major show down with Ben over the leadership of the island’s communities.[/quote]

    well i think Locke will come out of the jungle to fight jack and ben, so he can choose who to be a leader for, the others or losty’s. thats after killing jack n bewn

  55. Bizzy says:

    I don’t Locke’s personality makes him a good leader. He’s been too easily mislead by a number of people including Ben.

    He’s more or less a spiritual leader like a priest. This brings up the question, did Ben invent his own religion? When Karl was being brainwashed in Room 23 he was subjected to a voice which said something like God loves you like he loved Jacob. Notice the past tense of the verb.

    Is the Jacob story phoney baloney or what? I would believe that Jack would think so.

  56. Tina says:

    Nick, I think you make a great point at the end of the first section of your post when you say there were a whole lot of dead bodies in that hole. Obviously, they must be the bodies of someone who crossed Ben and the Others. I think you’re dead on to speculate that when Alex gave John the gun she was doing so out of concern for his safety from Jacob. Perhaps Ben did take others to see him as some kind of testing. Maybe when he told Locke that Jacob wasn’t someone you go see, but rather someone you wait to be summoned by, Ben would make up false summons as a reason to test these other individuals and later kill them, dumping their bodies in the hole. It would explain the gunshot wound to the head of the skeleton.

    I wonder if Jacob is an invention of the Hostiles, or a member of their merry band (assuming he was real at some point). Maybe that is how Ben was introduced to the idea of the whatever cultish religion they’re currently following. If Jacob is an invention of the Hostiles, it would explain why the Dharma purge was necessary. I imagine Ben, at some point highjacked their belief system, manipulating it for his own benefit, perhaps never really believing it himself only to discover that there were people on the island who really could experience whatever force Jacob is/represents. This is why he killed them, to protect himself and his power position among the camp. He is a disenchanted prophet who lost his ability to prophesy.

  57. Journeyman says:

    The Locke Question: My take is that HE is very much ALIVE.

    Two epi’s ago Lockes father bit him. Then last week we see him taking off the rag from around his hand and there is no wound.

    Clearly Locke has the powers of the island looking after him. Also on the Podcast C. Cruz seemed to lead us in the direction of “Lockes not dead”

  58. Seajam says:

    [quote comment=”57952″]locke is not dead. he was shot on the left side of his abdomen. the fact that he has no left kidney will somehow save his life…the question is, ben knows john is “special” and he knows about the kidney, if he wanted him dead, he would have shot him multiple times or in the heart or head….and so why didn’t he???[/quote]
    I think Ben shooting Locke is his way of forcing Locke to action. No way, with everything that Ben knows about Locke, that Ben would expect Locke to be killed by that shot. Ben’s a liar yes, but he isn’t stupid. I’ll quote myself from the episode blog thread: It’s all still going according to Ben’s plan.

    Rui Martin post #19: That says it all for the island time issue. There isn’t any reason for Ben to say that to Richard unles Richard no longer has birthdays. I think we need to consider if Ben said it sarcastically or not. Sort of a “haha – I still have birthdays and you don’t.” Living forever or aging really slowly might not necessarily be a good thing. The natives may think it more a curse than a blessing. Perhaps Locke is the one who can end it.

    Richard’s ability to come and go from the island may explain his modernism despite the fact that he could be quite old.

    Lost King post #30: Maybe Alex is the only child conceived on island and survive? I am not in the whole Annie is Danielle camp and still don’t think I am, but I am becoming more and more distrusting of Danielle’s story. Can’t wait to see what she’s going to blow up!

    Roses12 post #44: so far, Ben only alludes to Jacob’s dislike of technology. Richard and the other natives at the camp don’t seem to have a problem with it.

    One thing that bothers me about the episode is that it seems Ben gives in too easy to Locke’s request to be taken to Jacob: Locke asks, Ben say no, Locke says I’ll get somebody else to take me, Ben says he’ll do it. Was Ben afraid of some one else taking Locke to Jacob?

  59. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”58217″][quote comment=”57952″]
    One thing that bothers me about the episode is that it seems Ben gives in too easy to Locke’s request to be taken to Jacob: Locke asks, Ben say no, Locke says I’ll get somebody else to take me, Ben says he’ll do it. Was Ben afraid of some one else taking Locke to Jacob?[/quote]

    Maybe it is because there really is no tanglible Jacob that anyone else has ever seen so no one besides Ben could possibly take Locke there. If it is some kind of testing mechanism to see who Jacob will manifest too, then it explains why Alex gave Locke the gun. Others had been taken in the past and didn’t come back, not because Jacob killed them, but because Ben did.

  60. Seajam says:

    Maybe Locke is the first person that Jacob hasn’t killed. Ben’s flipping because instead of killing Locke, Jacob spoke to him. Course that flies in the face of my own theory that everything is still unfolding according to Ben’s plan. I hate when I do that.

  61. Kate says:

    #1.
    Locke is NOT dead. Too important & not enough of a shocker if he dies now. Plus as someone vaguely mentioned…he was pushed by his Dad from was it 8 stories up and survived & this WAS NOT when he was on the island. Locke is obviously a tough bloke, he’ll be fine. How he’s gunna climb outta the body hole is a different story.

    #2.
    I’m in 3 minds about jacob. 1)Christain Shepard
    2) Island & smoke monster entity
    Or as someone somwehere mentioned in a post…3)Jacob is Kelvin Des’s button pushing buddy. Plus he was making that map on the blast door. Interesting. I know everyone thinks he is dead from his & Des’s fight on the rocks but you know the healing properties are different so he could well be alive.
    #3.
    Alpert shown as a hostile is Richard Alpert’s dad. Way too many daddy issues on this rock so I think the aging thing is because he is not the same Alpert.

    “Other stuff” (excuse the pun)
    *I think Claire is going to be very interesting in the 4th Season. Christain’s Daughter, Jack’s Half Sister, Contact with psychics. as did Jack in Thailand..plus i’m still hung up on why Claire’s aunt (in the hospital room) hated Christain SO much. Got away from her cult leader eh?
    * In room 23, the words on the screen say “God loves you as he loves Jacob” I think from memory but it’s the whispering backwards voice that has something to say. I would post what it says here but I saw that on a Youtube link so it could be considered a spoiler.
    *Did anyone ever find out if the Mittelos Bioscience site was conneted to the show or just something a fan put together…just wondering.
    *Did anyone notice that Samantha Mathis was the teacher in the volcano experiment scene plus she was the lady in the car when Roger rushed out of the bushes with Ben’s dying mum? Also, the bushes they rushed out of was nicely opposite a road sign that said “Portland”

  62. lostigator says:

    I think Jacob is a nebuvite (smoke monster)

  63. mardacara says:

    [quote comment=”58128″]I watched the episode for the third time after reading this post and was forced to pause during the scene after the purge. Ben returns to find his dharma colleagues dead, including Horace Godspeed. To me, it seemed that this dead Horace was definitely NOT 15 years older than the time we saw him greeting Ben and Roger to the island. He has changed slightly, but certainly no more than Richard did during this time. My questions: What was Horace’s involvement with Dharma?? Does the fact that he coincidentally met Roger at Ben’s birth relate to the psychic persuading Claire to board the plane?? And DOES THE FACT THAT HORACE DOESN’T AGE CONNECT THE DHARMA SCIENTISTS TO RICHARD’S TRIBE OF HOSTILES??[/quote]

    Wasn’t one of Dharma’s missions was to conduct experimentation on the extention of human life? What if the “natives” are really test subjects of the Dharma initiative who have had their lives artifically extended to the point that they seem to not age preceptably in 15-20 years? Maybe Goodspeed is his own test subject. And the reason that the other Others are hostile is that they have come to realize that “immortality” is immoral/impossible to cope with on a human scale. Isn’t that always the big plight of ficitonal vampires everywhere? Living forever sucks?

    Incidentally, from a medical perspective, getting shot in an area a missing kidney is not a ticket to life. You’ve got a whole lot of intestines there, and your abdominal cavity really reacts badly to fecal contaminants. Locke will have to be rescued, I think. Perhaps Rousseau?

  64. Omar Kamel says:

    [quote comment=”58217″][quote comment=”57952″]
    One thing that bothers me about the episode is that it seems Ben gives in too easy to Locke’s request to be taken to Jacob: Locke asks, Ben say no, Locke says I’ll get somebody else to take me, Ben says he’ll do it. Was Ben afraid of some one else taking Locke to Jacob?[/quote]

    Ben didn’t give in ‘easily’ at all. He was outmaneuvered by Locke, and that gave me one hell of a good laugh. He did this by announcing in front of everybody that him and Ben were going to see Jacob. He guessed, obviously correctly, that the others are sick of Ben being the only one who gets to see Jacob, and that Ben seeming to ‘go back’ on a promise to see Jacob would cast more doubt on his position and weaken it.

    He just played the exact right card at the exact right time. The Others suspect Ben is leading them down a false path, and are sick of the ‘unique’ relationship he claims to have with Jacob, and were more than happy to see somebody taking steps to resolve this. Especially when this ‘somebody’ is Locke who they had been ‘waiting for’ and who had fulfilled his ‘task’ regarding Cooper.

    Ben was completely check-mated. Which is why I got such a good laugh. If he had simply said “But Locke, I never agreed for us to go see Jacob” – it would’ve been the final straw for his now reluctant followers. He did his best to wriggle out of it, by claiming he had to deal with Mikhail first, but well, we all know how Locke dealt with THAT prospect of a delay…

  65. George Richardson says:

    Does anyone think Jacob could have arrived on the island on the Black Rock Ship?

  66. Erin says:

    Back near the beginning of these posts someone said Sawyer is going to die. Don’t say things like that!!! If you’ve heard it somewhere, it’s a spoiler and you shouldn’t refer to it. And if you’re just speculating, I don’t want to hear it! I loooove Sawyer. I can’t stand the idea of him dying. He, too, is integral to the show.

  67. Tina says:

    [quote comment=”58428″]Back near the beginning of these posts someone said Sawyer is going to die. Don’t say things like that!!! If you’ve heard it somewhere, it’s a spoiler and you shouldn’t refer to it. And if you’re just speculating, I don’t want to hear it! I loooove Sawyer. I can’t stand the idea of him dying. He, too, is integral to the show.[/quote]

    That has nothing to do with this thread. Though I appreciate the sentiment.

  68. Bizzy says:

    The Sawyer character has really changed. It used to be that the writers used him to catch a beating each episode. Now, Patchy plays that role.

    Sawyer is now a Lostie leader with a strong suspicion about Juliet. I don’t what annoys me worse, Juliet’s smirk or Kate’s rabbit teeth or Alpert’s eyeliner or Desmond’s panic attacks or veiny Jack face. I didn’t make this up, you can find this on LostPedia.

  69. April says:

    [quote comment=”57953″]Like all of you i am pretty sure that Locke is not dead and i really hope he is not 😉 But did you guys notice how Ben react after he shot locke when he learned that Jacob asked Locke to help him . I think Ben regretted shooting Locke afterwards[/quote]

    I don’t think Ben regretted shooting him, but I do think he looked surprised – I think up til now only Ben was able to communicate with Jacob and I think he was surprised that Jacob communicated with Locke

  70. April says:

    1. i don’t think locke is dead. but i’m not convinced that this whole thing is in his head. I rewatched the 1st season and remember how locke used to play with his toy soldiers in the lunch room? and how he was denied his walkabout in australia because he was in a wheelchair? i have to wonder if this whole thing is imagined by locke during his own walkabout?

    2. i’m not sure what jacob is. I think it is intriguing that he is connected to smoky. i find it curious that locke has come face to face with smoky in the 1st season (remember the boar?). in fact i think smoky killed the boar and gave it to locke. i think ben is surprised that locke can hear jacob – whether he is concocted or not by ben.

    3. i don’t think it’s makeup, age has a definite character here on the island.

  71. Rinz says:

    #1 – Locke will survive. There are too many spoilers out there pointing to a Locke vs. Jack showdown in the future. How he survives, I don’t know. Maybe Richard pulls him out.

    #2 – A agree with those that say that Jacob could be fictional entity devised by Ben to keep control of the Others. I’m undecided however if a supernatural presence ‘like-Jacob’ exists on the Island – if so it must be related to Smokey.

    My suspicion is that the ghost in the chair is an old pirate that haunts the Island and is somehow imprisoned in the house – maybe the ashes have something to do with that. Ben knew that by bringing John to that room, the Ghost would somehow have a hissy fit and throw crap around. Owwhhh very scary. Maybe the ghost even says “Help me” to everyone that walks in the door?! It was a last ditch effort to turn John back in Ben’s favor non-violently. But Locke didn’t buy it. In fact he showed utter contempt. Ben knew his goose would be cooked if Locke made it back to camp.

    So I think Locke actually completely has Ben’s number on this one and is right when he says “You don’t know anything, you made it all up”. That and the name of the episode is so obvious not to be taken seriously – The Man Behind The Curtain.

    What pissed Ben off was being humiliated in front of the Others – nobody does that. But then he’s no longer the baddest dude on the Island. Locke has also “killed” his own father.

    So, he took Locke up “Jacob” to turn him with the haunted house or to kill him. I don’t buy the shot in the left side kidney theory. We haven’t seen anyone survive a gun shot wound on the Island that wasn’t a simple flesh wound on an extremity. It’s a serious gun wound. But like I say above. Locke will survive.

  72. Bizzy says:

    April: If it turns out the entire Lost series was something made up in Locke’s head, it not only goes against everything that D&C have said, but it would be cruel joke on the faithful Lost audience.

    Locke is definitely being protected in some supernatural way. Magnetism can’t heal a GSW to the abdomen.

  73. ss says:

    Hi, sorry if this was explained below (theres a hell of a lot to read) but doesn’t this purging of the dharma initiative contradict a lot of Juilettes back story and how and why she came to the island? Its very confusing. Is bens fathers van the van that charlie and his fat friend drove around the fields a while back? Who is Cindy?

  74. Bizzy says:

    Anybody else having a Lost finale party? I don’t know if we can find boar meat, so we might have to stick with pork chops. Several people will be reenacting some famous Lost scenes, like when Locke visits Ben in his room. We’ll be putting up the videos on YouTube like this one:
    http://tinyurl.com/2cmfho

  75. leah says:

    Jacob is an old name.a sort of name that would be associated with say …the black rock??

  76. mld says:

    My humble opinions. Forgive me if similar ideas have been posted elsewhere as this is my first time on a Lost bulletin board and the only thread I have read:

    1. Either Locke will heal, or Mikail will find and heal him. We already know that Mikail can survive what appears to be certain death, so it would not be a surprise to see him reappear yet again. And Locke saw Mikail die the first time, so as a result (a) Locke obviously knows Mikail can heal and (b) Mikail knows Locke is aware of this. So Mikail would not consider Locke his “killer” the second time, since Locke knew this would not kill him. Instead Mikail would see this for what it was, a power play against Ben, and might even form some kind of alliance with Locke (and others, see #3 below) against Ben.

    2. Mikail may have told Ben the fence was set to “non-lethal” because he is hiding from Ben his ability to heal himself and others. Perhaps Mikail has also made some sort of connection with “the island” (aka Jacob?) resulting in his special ability, and is hiding this from Ben because he knows Ben would consider it a threat and get rid of him. (The pile of bodies Locke is lying in – potentially “special” people?) Instead he is biding his time until it is time to get rid of Ben, just as young Ben bided his time until it was time to get rid of the Dharma initiative. (Which begs the question of whether Richard is aware of Mikail’s ability and is advising him to be patient as he did with young Ben.) Remember the Others have been waiting for “someone special.” Perhaps the native Others are Jacob’s followers, and they are waiting for the one who can liberate Jacob. Maybe Ben is trying to make sure that person never appears so he remains in charge, and Mikail is aware of this and thus hiding from Ben anything that would make him appear to be “special.” This is also one reason why he may end up working with Locke – if Ben truly believes Locke’s wound is lethal, then he would not be aware that Mikail (who Locke shot) and Locke (who he shot) are still alive and working against him.

    3. Which leads us to the fact that Richard Alpert also appears to have some motive for seeing Locke rise above Ben, as evidenced by the fact that he gave Locke the info on Sawyer, which enabled Locke to fulfill Ben’s demand that he kill his father to show he was one of them. I am wondering if Alpert is the “someone great” Mikail is referring to and is really in charge. After all he is the one essentially recruiting outsiders (such as Juliet) to come to the island. Ben did not select these recruits for the island; Richard did. If this is the case, why did Richard help Ben ascend to leadership? Well, perhaps that is why Richard was so interested in the fact that young Ben saw his mother (as manifested by “the island”). Perhaps he mistakenly thought Ben was the “someone special” they were waiting for, and that is why he did not eliminate him along with the rest of the Dharma initiative. And perhaps it has served his purpose to allow Ben to remain in leadership of the recruited Others, until the real “someone special” arrives.

    4. And perhaps this is why Richard is bringing recruits to the island. Perhaps he is singling out people who appear to have some sort of special ability and bringing them there to see if they connect with “the island” (aka Jacob?) and thus reveal themselves as the “someone special” they are waiting for. And Juliet, who does not appear to have any special abilities other than her medical research, may have been brought there for the very reason she was told. Perhaps they think those who have connected with “the island” like Ben, but who have been found not to be the “someone special”, if they can have children, will produce a child who will turn out to be the one they are waiting for. Or perhaps the native Others KNOW they are waiting for a child, which would also explain Richard’s interest in young Ben, and their abduction of the children of outsiders who arrive on the island. “Is it The One?”

    5. We all know the mysterious connections between the passengers on flight 815, as if they were all destined to end up on the island. In addition to these, others with special abilities have crashed/shipwrecked onto the island. Perhaps in addition to the native Others recruiting special people to the island, “the island” itself (aka Jacob?) is pulling in special people that happen to pass nearby (and other passengers are along for the ride) in an effort to liberate himself.

    6. Since Mikail (and maybe more – Ethan Rom perhaps?) can heal others, they could have retrieved the bodies from flight 815 after they were seen by the divers and reported to be dead, and ressurected them. This would explain why the rest of the world thinks they are all dead and are not looking for them. However this may not jive with the footage of the crash/parts of the plane on the beach taht might have contained people. I am just throwing the idea out there. Here is a stumper – where did Michael and Walt go? If they returned to civilization, they would have certainly told people the survivors of flight 815 were there, and the world would not presume them to be dead.

  77. jmax95 says:

    Locke is definitely not dead. He has a similar wound as Naomi. Ben has made the great evil doer mistake, shoot them once and leave them for dead. Even evil geniuses make mistakes. Locke is going to get up and go back to Jacob.

    OT: Why does Alpert allow the myth that Ben was born on the island to continue. Is Alpert the only one of the “hostiles” left?

    Jacob was one of the voices but now is isolated from them. The black cloud is controlled by the voices. Dharma and the voices did not get along and the hostiles were related to the voices, hence the purge. At some point a split happened among the hostiles, Jacob and his followers took over the camp or were forced into the camp to avoid the black cloud. Now the hostiles started dying off and could not reproduce. I don’t think Dharma knew this or didn’t experience it. Ben has become the leader and brought people in to solve the problem because, like Locke, he doesn’t want to leave the island. After all the island gave him his mother back, for a short time. Also in the outside world, he’d be just a workman.

    Ben and Russo. After killing his childhood girlfriend, Ben eventually hooks up with a hostile, Russo. She gives birth to Alex and then goes crazy. She kills many if not all (except Alper) of the original hostiles. Russo also distrusts technology as do the voices. Ben takes Alex from Russo and banishes her outside the fence. The black cloud does not go after her.

    The black cloud does not kill Locke back in season 2. I wouldn’t be surprised if the black cloud helps him out of the grave now. The voices are trying to get Jacob back.

  78. Hammer says:

    Good stuff jmax.

  79. Bizzy says:

    1. I think Locke is alive. He’s too important a character.

    2. Jacob is wearing pirate clothes. He must’ve been on the Black Rock.

    3. I think Ben made up Jacob in his mind.

    4. Russo=Danielle. They both are french.

    5. The black cloud is controlled by the voices which is controlled by the polar bears which are controlled by the 4-toed people.

  80. adriennez says:

    Maybe when Ben says that he was born on the island, he means like a rebirth…from the scared, meek kid he was to the sneaky, plotting, mass murderer and betrayer that he became.

    Locke certainly cannot be dead…way too important of a character to go out like that. I did think that Danielle might come and save him but she seems to be busy with Jack and company. Maybe Mikhail will come and help him…Locke pushing him into the fence was just a show…they both knew it was on a non-lethal setting?!

    Inside Jacob’s cabin was definitely eery…I still do not know what to make of it all…Is Ben just crazy? Why would Alpert and the hostiles let some kid rise up to be their leader? Because he told him he saw his dead mother on the island? Did that make him seem special?

    I still have a theory that in the finale we will see Walt find (or vice versa) the bird that Claire tagged with a message. That is not from any spoilers I have read or anything, just a feeling.

  81. clabberking says:

    Ben was actually pleased to take Locke to Jacob. He made a show of being afraid and embarassed, but it was clearly more of Ben’s manipulation.

    The Others, including Ben, suspect that someone is coming who has even more ability than Jacob to awaken the island’s power. Up until now, they’ve been told/suspected (?) it would be someone born on the island. But the more they knew about Locke, the more they wondered if he could be the one.

    The person to unlock the island’s power will, in fact, be someone “reborn” on the island, brought back from the brink of death. Locke is going to replace Jacob as the king/spirit of the island. He’ll have found his purposeon the island, as well as purpose for his past sufferings.

    Having the planies escape would jeopardize all that, so Locke will do all in his power to keep them on the island.

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